Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Why do pans contaminate so easy?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Jrotten

Jrotten

    Amateurish

  • Gold VIP
  • 975 posts

Posted 27 October 2020 - 09:51 PM

Same growing environment I have a Semperviva bag that is approaching 6 months old, no contamination. I ignored a tub of cubes picking periodically until it was just in vitro mutants for close to 3 months. No contamination.

EVERY pan species I have grown has contaminated before the first flush and usually immediately upon being placed in fruiting conditions. This time I had pins coming in everywhere, I’ve got green. What is it about pans that make them so susceptible to green mold contamination so quickly in fruiting and what if anything can be done about it?

This is getting so frustrating and I just don’t get why pans almost invite green mold to live next door.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 7BAAB7FE-FFE8-454E-AF71-1A3C6A815A6B.jpeg


#2 DickMoby

DickMoby

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 124 posts

Posted 28 October 2020 - 08:13 AM

I did alot of research but I'm not experienced with pans.

 

Last year I gave those a try

 

h7lx478t.jpg

 

shortly after the picture the whole thing aborted, found green mold on the bottom of this cake.

 

It was a multispore grow from a trade print so its possible that it wasn't clean.

 

Something that I noticed later is that the humidifier that was used for this attempt grew repeatedly mold inside (full plastic humidifier), even though it was cleaned multiple times with bleach.

 

My chamber was also without electric FAE and heated.

The myc produces alot of Co2 during the fruiting + warm temps and high humidity is also a great environment for mold.

 

I could also imagine that fine and whispy strains are more prone to mold than denser growing strains.

 

Gonna give them another try very soon with a better setup and will pick some thicker pre selected myc to inoculate and case thicker or recase if necessary to see if that does better.

 

But again, thats just what I noticed from this try and what I think could be issues that led to my moldy cake, I'm yet not experienced with pans


  • Jrotten likes this

#3 whitethumb

whitethumb

    poisoned beauties

  • OG VIP
  • 1,095 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 28 October 2020 - 09:24 AM

what does your sub consist of? your casing? your fruiting temperature?

in my opinion i would steer clear of coir for pans. i pasteurize my sub at 160° for about 2 hours. let the sub sit for at least a few days or more before spawning my colonized berries. i also pasteurize my casing at 160° for 1 hour. i recommend a properly pasteurized sub and casing to help combat tricoderma and other nasties.

asura has a really good write up on pans and definitely a good read. blue helix also has some very useful info.

do tell is more of your method and parameters, it might help paint a bigger picture.
  • Jrotten and YoshiTrainer like this

#4 Myc

Myc

    El Jardinero

  • App Administrator
  • 7,379 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 October 2020 - 10:15 AM

^^^ Do you sterilize or pasteurize your substrates?

 

Sterilization is an invitation for the strongest predator.

Pasteurization leaves beneficial microbes in the substrate which can help fight predators.

 

I'll sterilize a substrate which will support fast-running cultivars.

I'll pasteurize a substrate which will support slower colonizers.


Edited by Myc, 28 October 2020 - 10:16 AM.

  • Jrotten and YoshiTrainer like this

#5 YoshiTrainer

YoshiTrainer

    Onion tied to belt

  • Gold VIP
  • 683 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 October 2020 - 10:56 AM

I still have a lot to learn about a lot of things. I sterilize my all in one jars (grain + sub) and bulk in bags if I go bulk. I also sterilize my casing, 1C verm, 1C COIR, 1/4 sand in a metal pie tin with enough water to saturate. I cover the pie tin with foil and throw it in a 350F oven for a couple hours. I'm not recommending you do this, I've been very lucky w/this approach. If it contaminates that fast and you are sure your spawn is clean then most likely dirty casing or possibly contamination while casing? Do you case in front of a flow hood?

You are so dang close JR, keep at it!
  • Jrotten likes this

#6 YoshiTrainer

YoshiTrainer

    Onion tied to belt

  • Gold VIP
  • 683 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 28 October 2020 - 01:36 PM

Here is Ho'o Kipa on it's 3rd flush, producing some thick fruits. Like I said, not recommending what I do but I've had luck with it.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20201028_113019-1.jpg

  • Jrotten likes this

#7 Celestialexplorer1

Celestialexplorer1

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 211 posts

Posted 28 October 2020 - 06:36 PM

I’ve wondered the same thing for a long time.always had great looking subs and cultures that were fast and good but kept contaminating after about seven days in fruiting. Time and time again it kept happening. I would always let my trays colonize for about 7-10 days and most of the time a good culture would Look colonized at 5 days but what I realized for a lot of reasons it’s best to let the sub completely consolidate. I did biopsy on my contaminated sub that had contaminated and found soft spots or partially consolidated spots in the center of the sub sometimes so I started letting the sub sit in colonization a little longer 14-16 days sometimes and also letting the sub grow into the casing for a few days before putting it into fruiting is a major protection as well. Consolidation and complete colonization of the sub is also a major factor in the formation of primordia as well. I found also it’s easier to do all this with bulk sub bags and LC. Letting the bulk consolidate for an extra five or so days makes a big difference as long as you put enough water in the sub from the beginning you will be fine and when the sub starts to deplete all the nutrients it knows it’s time to start pinning.

This is just my experience with pans but it also rolls into all cultivation as well. Just my two cents
  • Jrotten and YoshiTrainer like this

#8 Jrotten

Jrotten

    Amateurish

  • Gold VIP
  • 975 posts

Posted 29 October 2020 - 12:25 AM

I follow Asura/Blue Helix. This sub was about 35/35/20/10 hpoo/straw/WBS/Verma. Inoculated with LC. The bag was sterilized for 4 hours at 15psi. Casing is peat and oyster shell with just a bit of verm. Casing was partially sterilized. It just seems too fast for the casing to be the issue. Also the side of the sub has more green that showed faster. I wiped the bag down with alcohol before opening, same with the tub, wore gloves when I trayed it. Incubated at 74F, fruited between 74F and 77F. Constant FAE that is hepa filtered. Semperviva 4” has no green.

I’ve never gotten pans this far without using sterilized sub in a closed container. LC came from agar that was left to mature and I selected the wispiest most aggressive growth from the plate that tried to go over everything else. Kept the plate for awhile afterwards with no hint of green mold.

Handled it all in my hood.

So either the bag wasn’t fully colonized, the casing was loaded with mold spores, orrrrr I don’t know. It pinned in 5 days so it had to contaminate early on to be green by day 6-7.
  • YoshiTrainer likes this

#9 Celestialexplorer1

Celestialexplorer1

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 211 posts

Posted 29 October 2020 - 09:49 AM

Yeah with pans that’s why I’ve found it’s best to let them
Consolidate a little longer and consolidation is a pinning trigger as well there’s a lot of good reasons. I serious tried pans only for months on months with this same thing happening until I figured this out
  • Jrotten, Salty117 and YoshiTrainer like this

#10 Jrotten

Jrotten

    Amateurish

  • Gold VIP
  • 975 posts

Posted 29 October 2020 - 11:24 AM

Well I took some pins from big clusters to agar, maybe I can out transfer mold spores if they grow fast. I have the LC in the fridge and I guess it’s time to pour a sleeve of plates. I had some prints I was wanting to get to anyway. I think this FC has proven it is capable of growing pans well, I just need to work on my process and slow down. No sense rushing into failure. I‘ll try longer consolidation, ph adjusting my casing, and either a solid pasteurization on the casing or a total sterilization. I also think I’ll adjust my straw size. This was all finely chopped, I think leaving a little bit more coarse might help the bag consolidate in the middle easier.

I think that pans just don’t really try too hard to compete. I think their strategy is to just outrun the competition. I mean despite the contamination I had a pretty nice pinset coming in. I pulled 12g of pins off if I really felt inclined to try them. Sort of feels like cheating though lol. I do wish I could have let the tray mature though.

Edited by Jrotten, 29 October 2020 - 11:28 AM.

  • YoshiTrainer likes this

#11 Celestialexplorer1

Celestialexplorer1

    Mycotopiate

  • VIP
  • 211 posts

Posted 29 October 2020 - 12:42 PM

I think you are right about pans competing with contam because I have been growing them all year next to tons of other species that have no issues at all pushing out 4-5 flushes and never containing but then pans right next to them contaminated everytime. I think a lot of it is the straw/manure based subs and like I talked before the consolidation but also my casing had contamed a lot only with pans. I think I was almost pastuerizing to extremely because with my manure/straw subs I’ll do a 12hr setting and it gets a good 8hrs at 160 center. My casing I only need to do 1-3 hrs at 160f center.

Also try letting it grow into the casing before fruiting a little bit just enough so that some of the myc starts poking through looking for oxygen. Also if you do go the sterilization casing route I would definitely lessen the time it’s cooked because o just feel like sterilized uncolonized damp substrate material is a great place for new contams to grow. Our fruiting chambers aren’t always completely sterile and they don’t need to be. I mean you want it clean but we don’t need to grow in front of a flow hood you know what I mean. They shouldn’t have to be sterile I don’t think. Although I had never heard of sterilized casing before coming to mycotopia so I have never tried it and this is just what I have always been told.
  • Jrotten and YoshiTrainer like this

#12 YoshiTrainer

YoshiTrainer

    Onion tied to belt

  • Gold VIP
  • 683 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 29 October 2020 - 01:55 PM

I may be the only person that sterilizes my casing, partially because my environment has all sorts of funk floating around. I only open my tub FC about once a week and only w/fans and AC turned off for a 20 min or so. I clean the lid, gloves and a mask, opening as slight as needed. I do almost all my work in front of a hood. If I'm doing a jar, when complete, it gets a crumble into a mini tub and covered w/a lid that has holes w/micropore then into a drawer for 5-7 days. In front of my hood, I peel back the lid, case and soak with a sprayer. It gets the cover put back on and moved to the FC where it sits for 2 hours. I peel back the lid, dump the excess water and put back in the FC for fruiting.

DISCLAIMER: This is what I've figured out to work in my conditions and available time. Compared to Asura, Jake, Blue Helix, PeaceFrog, pretty much everyone else, I am getting by on luck and barely enough knowledge to make me dangerous. :)
  • Jrotten likes this




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!