Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Sterilizing agar with grains and avoiding overnight soaks


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 02 November 2020 - 11:57 PM

Hey I know my title is long but you get the idea. I wonder if it's okay to just send it and just boil to sterilize for grains ( preferably Oats and millet). Also i understand you just need 45 minutes to sterilize your agar in a jar but I have one big American pressure cooker. So I wonder if I can sterilize both my agar mix and grains to cut time?
Thank you for taking the time to read and reply

#2 jkdeth

jkdeth

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 2,567 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 03 November 2020 - 05:52 AM

I'm assuming you mean hydrating grain, prior to sterilizing. The overnight soak isn't necessary, but doesn't hurt. Simmer rather than boil.

I think its worth it to run your agar separately. I ran some early in my agar start with grain, and it still worked ( no pour jars ). Mostly I just prefer to run a full PC of grain, and a full PC of agar.

#3 FunG

FunG

    "Trump 2021"

  • Free Member
  • 1,208 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 08:29 AM

If you oc agar for as long as you required to sterilize grain jars it will probably fail to resolidify upon cooling and become a mushy substance.

Grains can be hydrated in a matter of hours by using boiling hot water and steeping them. Or simmering on the stove like jkdeth mentioned.

#4 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 09:12 AM

I'm assuming you mean hydrating grain, prior to sterilizing. The overnight soak isn't necessary, but doesn't hurt. Simmer rather than boil.

I think its worth it to run your agar separately. I ran some early in my agar start with grain, and it still worked ( no pour jars ). Mostly I just prefer to run a full PC of grain, and a full PC of agar.

I'm thinking of just rinsing the grains and finding a ratio of water to grain to put in a jar. Then pressure cooking it to cut time and waste. I end up with so much cleaning to do from soak, boil and simmer, I just want an easier and cheaper alternative (considering how much grain waste and possibly increase in my electricity bill). But thank you in regards to pcing the agar separately. I guess I'll do agar next week.

#5 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 09:31 AM

If you oc agar for as long as you required to sterilize grain jars it will probably fail to resolidify upon cooling and become a mushy substance.

Grains can be hydrated in a matter of hours by using boiling hot water and steeping them. Or simmering on the stove like jkdeth mentioned.

Hey thank you. This makes sense. I'll be on a look out for a small pressure cooker now. Now I just wonder if I can rinse and pc my grains with a ratio of grains to water in a jar to cut waste.

#6 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 10:04 AM

I'm assuming you mean hydrating grain, prior to sterilizing. The overnight soak isn't necessary, but doesn't hurt. Simmer rather than boil.

I think its worth it to run your agar separately. I ran some early in my agar start with grain, and it still worked ( no pour jars ). Mostly I just prefer to run a full PC of grain, and a full PC of agar.

Now I'm thinking
Either water to grain ratio in a jar overnight then pc it the next day or
Water to grain ratio in a jar and pc it immediately.
I just have to figure out the right water to grain ratio.
Note: it did millet the traditional way. Soak, boil, simmer and pc. The pc still cooked the millet and the smell was overwhelming.

#7 FunG

FunG

    "Trump 2021"

  • Free Member
  • 1,208 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 01:29 PM

Hey brother, shoot the user "stencill86" a private message and ask him his water ratio when using millet, he does millet just like your wanting to so he'd know best.

#8 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 04:06 PM

Hey brother, shoot the user "stencill86" a private message and ask him his water ratio when using millet, he does millet just like your wanting to so he'd know best.

Hey thank you. I message them but also think I found the ratio they used. I just one last question, I had to toss some grains recently due to contamination issues but had the worst time opening the top cover. Is this a normal issue?

#9 coorsmikey

coorsmikey

    Passenger

  • App Administrator
  • 7,529 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 03 November 2020 - 06:43 PM

My general rule for water to grain ratio is always 1/3C water for every 1/2C of grain. Work great every time and I don't soak or rinse. I usually use wheat, oats or rye though. When using smaller grain like milo and millet that ratio comes out a lil on the wet side so I will hold back the water just a hair. The best that I have found for the smaller grain is to fill the water exactly to the top grain line so its barely covering the grain

 

I always do agar separate as the cook time are much shorter and its easy to burn the agar if you are doing a full 90 min at 15psi. Plus the heat up and cool down time.



#10 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:06 PM

My general rule for water to grain ratio is always 1/3C water for every 1/2C of grain. Work great every time and I don't soak or rinse. I usually use wheat, oats or rye though. When using smaller grain like milo and millet that ratio comes out a lil on the wet side so I will hold back the water just a hair. The best that I have found for the smaller grain is to fill the water exactly to the top grain line so its barely covering the grain

I always do agar separate as the cook time are much shorter and its easy to burn the agar if you are doing a full 90 min at 15psi. Plus the heat up and cool down time.

What does 1/3c or 1/2c mean? In maybe ml or gram please

#11 coorsmikey

coorsmikey

    Passenger

  • App Administrator
  • 7,529 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:46 PM

Just replace "C" for cup with any measure you like, its the ratio that is important. Perhaps pint will make more sense to you or liter? 1/3 liter water for every 1/2 liter of grain or in other words 33.3 mil of water to every 50mil grain. Jeesh, Thanks for making my kitchen math that much easier. Now I am gonna stop using Cups as well just measure out 666 mil for every liter of grain. Thats way easier than doing 2cups water to 3cups grain. Of course those ratios are by volume with many years experience, I am not sure how well they translate over in weight. If you did it by grams it may need some adjustment. Maybe someone that weighs their mix and "weigh' in on whether the two line up well or not.



#12 jrh

jrh

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 292 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:47 PM

In this case, it means cups which are 8 fluid ounces, but to follow his rule you would just use ratios by volume. So 1 cup of grain and 2/3 cup water. Or 1 martini glass of grain and 2/3 martini glass of water.


  • coorsmikey likes this

#13 coorsmikey

coorsmikey

    Passenger

  • App Administrator
  • 7,529 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 03 November 2020 - 07:54 PM

Oh and if you're doing no prep grain, then make sure that as soon as the PC has cooled to where you can open it safely but still hot to touch, You tighten the lids then shake them up real well. If you don't the the grain at the bottom of the jar will be a soggy mess and the grain on top will be too dry. Shaking it while its still hot distributes the moisture throughout the grain evenly. If you miss this step you will be thinking that no prep is no good. Leave one jar untouched for comparison and you'll see what I mean. I think that's why folk do the soak in the first place cuz they forgot to shake while hot when they try no prep grain.


  • toldmedat likes this

#14 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 08:37 PM

Just replace "C" for cup with any measure you like, its the ratio that is important. Perhaps pint will make more sense to you or liter? 1/3 liter water for every 1/2 liter of grain or in other words 33.3 mil of water to every 50mil grain. Jeesh, Thanks for making my kitchen math that much easier. Now I am gonna stop using Cups as well just measure out 666 mil for every liter of grain. Thats way easier than doing 2cups water to 3cups grain. Of course those ratios are by volume with many years experience, I am not sure how well they translate over in weight. If you did it by grams it may need some adjustment. Maybe someone that weighs their mix and "weigh' in on whether the two line up well or not.

Thank you. I'll give it a shot on Friday and see.

#15 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 08:38 PM

Oh and if you're doing no prep grain, then make sure that as soon as the PC has cooled to where you can open it safely but still hot to touch, You tighten the lids then shake them up real well. If you don't the the grain at the bottom of the jar will be a soggy mess and the grain on top will be too dry. Shaking it while its still hot distributes the moisture throughout the grain evenly. If you miss this step you will be thinking that no prep is no good. Leave one jar untouched for comparison and you'll see what I mean. I think that's why folk do the soak in the first place cuz they forgot to shake while hot when they try no prep grain.

This is an excellent idea someone just shared with me too. Thank you

#16 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 08:48 PM

Oh and if you're doing no prep grain, then make sure that as soon as the PC has cooled to where you can open it safely but still hot to touch, You tighten the lids then shake them up real well. If you don't the the grain at the bottom of the jar will be a soggy mess and the grain on top will be too dry. Shaking it while its still hot distributes the moisture throughout the grain evenly. If you miss this step you will be thinking that no prep is no good. Leave one jar untouched for comparison and you'll see what I mean. I think that's why folk do the soak in the first place cuz they forgot to shake while hot when they try no prep grain.

Since the pc is open, do I still leave overnight?

#17 coorsmikey

coorsmikey

    Passenger

  • App Administrator
  • 7,529 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 03 November 2020 - 08:59 PM

Leave wherever you like to finish cooling if the lids are tight. I put mine back in the box and inoculate 12 at a time, but thats just me. The PC and the security or sterility is already compromised when you open it so there is no benefit of letting them cool in it. If the grain is still hot while your tightening the lid the if a couple of stray spores get in to the jars they will most likely not survive. If you don't have filtered lids then either way once the jars cool you will have a vacuum. The second you open that vacuum seal in dirty air they're  are at risk of being compromised defeating the purpose of cooling inside the PC in the first place. Cooling in the PC overnight is more a thing for people that are too high to finish that night over an actual science of aseptic technique.


Edited by coorsmikey, 03 November 2020 - 09:00 PM.


#18 toldmedat

toldmedat

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 44 posts

Posted 03 November 2020 - 09:03 PM

Leave wherever you like to finish cooling if the lids are tight. I put mine back in the box and inoculate 12 at a time, but thats just me. The PC and the security or sterility is already compromised when you open it so there is no benefit of letting them cool in it. If the grain is still hot while your tightening the lid the if a couple of stray spores get in to the jars they will most likely not survive. If you don't have filtered lids then either way once the jars cool you will have a vacuum. The second you open that vacuum seal in dirty air they're are at risk of being compromised defeating the purpose of cooling inside the PC in the first place. Cooling in the PC overnight is more a thing for people that are too high to finish that night over an actual science of aseptic technique.

So I can inoculate the jars with the spore syringe immediately, since I already opened the pressure cooker? I'm so sorry English is my second language.




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!