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Crossing strain varieties via swab to spore solution


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#21 coorsmikey

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 09:06 AM

I see that you have dubbed them PEA+. Perhaps I can make a suggestion for an alternate name if the phenos stabilize in future generations. I was thinking Leucitic Faht Peckers (LFP) may be appropriate lol.


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#22 Freaky

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 01:16 PM

Or call them Fha++ies 


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#23 fahtster

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 05:17 PM

Haha.. was also thinking FBPD.. fahts big pale dick. Lol. Pea+ rolls off the tongue nicely though
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#24 DickMoby

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 09:21 PM

I see you decided not to react to my comment and thats ok for me.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to beg or take your project out of your hand, I got alot of stuff to do here.

The honest reason why I asked is the unique look of the first generation caps and you seem to seek different traits for the stabilization.

 

Just to tell my point of view because I kinda feel like an annoying idiot now that I think about it.



#25 coorsmikey

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 10:00 PM

I see you decided not to react to my comment and thats ok for me.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to beg or take your project out of your hand, I got alot of stuff to do here.

The honest reason why I asked is the unique look of the first generation caps and you seem to seek different traits for the stabilization.

 

Just to tell my point of view because I kinda feel like an annoying idiot now that I think about it.

Not annoying. Its just the trading and bartering on the open forums is discouraged or pretty much taboo. Most of the time it gets deleted but sometimes if falls through the crack as the intentions seem ok. But if we allowed straight up all the time this forum would become a shit show real fast and even more spammers and folks with bad intention would find a new home to burn others. Not to mention that the paid members actually establish a reputation as someone with intent that cares for the community establishing a sort of trust amongst the other members that contribute. A lack of response may be due to the fact that usually those comments toward trading, selling, bartering on the open forums normally get delete and in some case the violators infracted.

 

Someone that has been around long enough knows this and will most likely not give a response because the know it will get deleted. If that Is not the reason the they will most likely respond because their Inbox will quickly get filled with others wanting to make some sort of trade that have zero reputation on the boards at all wanting to get some of what is being offered. In the Market Place there is some piece of mind to other member that some sort of vetting has happened to filter out some of the guesswork of making deals out in the open. Also the folks trading there keep the unwanted spam and attention to a minimum as opposed to answering your request in the open for anyone to view. Please don't feel bad if you don't get a response for such request on the forums than literally anyone that can use a search engine can view.


Edited by coorsmikey, 12 November 2020 - 10:03 PM.

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#26 fahtster

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 11:23 PM

I totally missed your post because it went to another page on my end.. wasn’t ignoring ya, my bad. I’ll just send ya one when I get it stabilized.. I just don’t want a pe6 situation where there doesn’t seem to be any discernible difference from any other cube. Sorry if this is a tease, but this is literally the first time I’ve made a cross. The real point of the whole post is to show you how to do it because it’s so easy.. maybe I just got lucky and crossed the hell out of all the subs I inoculated but the logic is solid.. I actually thought I had mistakenly mixed up swabs because I also double swabbed a PE with a melmak revert and I didn’t see any white AA+ pins which I was expecting, but I’m a meticulous SOB lol (if ya can’t tell) and the AA+ genes in these are unmistakable and look nothing like the revert.

But really, it was incredibly easy.. probably work alright just taking swabs to two different varieties and rub them together in sterile water without the swabbing spores on top of each other

Sorry again I missed that and made ya feel the way ya felt. Cheer up though, you’ll get one when they’re ready ;)

Faht
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#27 DickMoby

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 06:42 AM

I've seen theres a closed section but wasn't aware that open spore stuff is a nono, gonna keep that in mind for the future.

 

Get it I'm a new member and haven't posted any grows yet so theres no reason to believe me anything and think I'm a legit grower (reputation). 

_______________

 

Even though the collector in me is interested in the gen, its not to get that one right now because I want to  have that new gen, my interest is in the very first one with the nipple heads because this one is in my eyes what makes your cross unique.

The ones you chose still had mixed caps and you went for the fastest and thickest fruits to clone but those lost a good part of the uniqueness from the beginning, thats why I asked - to keep the two colored nipple heads going.

 

Melmac revert or did you mean APE revert ? I'm maybe not fully up to date, haven't heard of revert Mel yet.

_

Yea the method is pretty easy, just the following work takes a good while and some plates for the backups and the stabilization.

 

Even though I'm glad you made this thread so we can talk about things, my feelings about this topic in the open are mixed.

The spore chaos out there is a present problem with wrongly labeled tubs or prints from growers and wrong earlier IDs.

On top of that people will start to try crossing and spread what they think are crosses but maybe its just a different strain with bigger caps or smaller stems or something else.

 

Gives me paranoia lol 

_

 

No haste man, you take the time you want to take to finish your project.

Looking forward to start one of these soon too


Edited by DickMoby, 13 November 2020 - 06:44 AM.


#28 fahtster

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 10:42 AM

Well I’m not spreading anything lol. That’s the point I guess.. I haven’t chosen anything yet either.. the mini mono was from a culture I used for GLC that I made from the same spore syringe as the cakes at the same time. I’m pretty sure that the reason those first cakes’ caps were such pronounced two-tone is due to that area of the cake having more water.. I’ve seen it happen in other varieties that were over watered.. these pf redspore for instance

9321F10D-64A6-430F-8945-7F85006D2339.jpeg

The mini mono was a bit dry and it wasn’t until I bottom watered it that it really took off, so I think had it been better hydrated from the start, you would have seen more pronounced tones in the caps.

I’m taking one of the swabs to pf cakes this weekend so I’ll know more soon enough when I see variation in the F2.

Here’s the Mel revert

55002347-6A7B-437C-ACA9-B04E1D42ADD1.jpeg

You haven’t heard of it because it came out of a Mel swab my buddy sent me that I made into a spore syringe. I grew it at the end of my growing season so wrapped things up before I let the rest of the tub grow out (the unfruited sections of the surface) to see if I got normal Mel fruits because the reverted fruits came up in a normal cube time frame and I would have had to wait weeks more to see normal Mel fruits... as you can see, it’s nothing like the PEA+ and I personally took the swabs I used for the double swabbing to get the crosses so there’s no room for misinterpretation there.. it’s either PE, AA+, or that weird mel revert.. it’s not straight PE, not straight AA+ (That’s why I used AA+ so that it was easy to tell) and not straight Mel revert

I double swabbed the PE and Mel revert just because I had both growing at the same time and thought what the hell.. why not?

But yeah, as you/I stated, I’m not sending swabs out yet because of all the strain confusion out there.. trying to be responsible about it.. even though I wanted to give it to the world right now lol. Yet another exercise in patience these lil guys require

Faht

Edited by fahtster, 13 November 2020 - 11:49 AM.


#29 fahtster

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 11:57 AM

If you look at this pic of the mini...

1DD62C94-65C2-4F52-8CF9-707CB8391EDA.jpeg

At the 9:30 position, you can see a smaller fruit that has the pronounced two tone with bell shape.. it was probably pin size when I bottom watered the tub

Faht

#30 DickMoby

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 12:12 PM

I'll come back later to answer, had a bigger microdose in my coffee this morning and studied a new paper about mush stuff and book info for some hours, right now in the come down and my brain just doesn't process any more letters ^^

 

I tried hard and did read your post a couple times but my brain is saturated right now lol

 

Gotta do some agar and come back later to give it another try :)


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#31 DickMoby

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 06:01 PM

"my feelings about this topic in the open are mixed"

 

"On top of that people will start to try crossing and spread what they think are crosses"

 

 

With "this topic in the open" was meant to talk about the crossing process in the open so everyone can see it and "start to try crossing and spread what they think are crosses".

 

This was generally meant, not directed at you and your shared project here like a critique.

Purely to mention that this in the wrong hands (the info is shared open for everyone) can lead to idiotic gen spreads.

Tho this doesn't mean low key - please delete this thread - just felt like typing that down on my last comment.

 

Communication especially online is hard for me, I tend to get into situations like that all the time, its hard man, might just sit back and chill a bit and focus on my projects for a while.

 

Gonna lurk here and there 

 

Cheers



#32 fahtster

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 06:46 PM

It’s all good.. I see where you’re coming from.. ppl are getting into crossing pretty heavily now a days.. maybe not here but definitely in other parts of the OMC so it’s bound to get out anyway and I think good things can come from it too.. getting a PE that prints, is faster, and maintains the potency which is my goal. I just don’t see how playing around with crossing could be too detrimental.. if you’re putting out shitty genetics, people talk and it won’t last long

I feel like it’s no worse than breeding bud strains

Besides, I don’t even know if it’s repeatable.. I want some peeps to try.. maybe I just got extremely lucky

Faht

#33 fahtster

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Posted 14 November 2020 - 05:20 AM

Oh yeah.. mini mono dried down to 55.2gms.. definitely less than if it were just cloned PE but they fruited 2 weeks sooner and being ms, I’m pretty happy with the end result.

The next grow I’ll be using shorter 16qt tubs (same ones I use for PE) and do laymixing, using about an inch top CV layer.. I expect better first flush results with that sub construction.. it concentrates grain near the top of the fruiting surface and the thick CV layer acts like a built in casing layer that does great things for pin development and maturation. Being that CV is pretty contam resistant, I’m not usually worried if the thick CV layer doesn’t fully colonize since they’re usually one and done sub blocks if I do it right.

I’ve prepped the swabs for the F2 syringe

CBF63AC6-5C26-4EB6-8653-0149F238D18F.jpeg

One of the things that’s really neat about going from swab to SS is that when I rub the two swab tips together, tiny little bits of swab fibers come off into the water and spores are attached to those fibers.. this acts like a built-in spore suspension mechanism.. usually if you’re using a traditional print and going to SS, you have to worry about (Unless you use a surfactant like jet dry) letting the syringe sit too long and the spores sticking to the sides of the syringe barrel.. I can make the syringe, come back in a week, shake it up and when I put it up to the light, I can see tons of those tiny particles floating around.. pretty neat little side effect

Might as well show ya how I go about using an oven bag to do my swabs to SS (spore solution). It’s a variation to my oven bag cloning method https://mycotopia.ne...one-tek-redone/

(This is copy and pasted so I hope it doesn’t get weird lol)

MY OVEN BAG CONSTRUCTION AND PROCEDURE

Let’s get started.. first thing I do is vacuum seal the swab(s).. I ISO the outside of the swab package and the inside of the vacuum pouch and vacuum seal it up... Then I carefully bend the pouch to break the swab sticks about 3” above the swab.. this makes it easier to handle the swabs when I’m dipping them in the water.. better leverage
F59DABC3-99D9-42CE-B66F-3897BE9E3A2B.jpeg

Then set it aside.  On to making the bag..

E1D65AB1-88A4-413D-8A72-59FB18AD2A4C.jpeg

I fracking looooOoOoove oven bags.. they’re so versatile.  They can be pc’d.. attachments can be added to them easily.. they’re cheap.. and they’re malleable so I can work with the items placed inside easily with my hands from outside.  I also developed a syringe barrel poly-filled air filter that I hook up to a fish tank bubbler so I can inflate the bag so it’s easier to work with the items inside the bag

The idea is a really simple one... all the items that I need to do either a cloning or spore print to syringe or swab to syringe are secured inside the bag and then pc’d.. once it’s cooled, the swab or print or clone material is transferred to the inside of the bag quickly and carefully (via H2o2 with clone material—and I’m actually working on a method where H2o2 is used to transfer the stem into the bag and once it’s inside the bag, it’s torn open and tissue is taken, so the H2o2 never touches the actual cloned tissue making it 100% clean) through a small opening that was left when the bag was constructed and the bag is sealed back up.. then the process of making the SS is done from outside the bag while the items are secured inside. 

I’m not delusional and don’t think everyone is going to run and make this thing but maybe it’ll give some ppl ideas they didn’t have before... this is long and tedious (trust me I’m using a phone lol) but really it takes like 5 mins to set up a bag once you have all the parts and everything but the bag and zip ties are reusable

ITEMS YOU'LL NEED:

-Turkey sized oven bags
9525473D-7D71-43AB-919D-1C312D72D533.jpeg
- Two 2”, 3/4” Dia, pc-able tubing stuffed tight with poly fil and an empty syringe barrel also stuffed tight with poly fil.
5A2C4A74-4407-4D0C-8CB5-7B2C85EC8231.jpeg
- 4” inch small zip ties
8786DE3C-81F3-4330-A0EC-D6538F45ED8D.jpeg
-  tape (I use blue painters tape)
-  empty syringe(s) with plunger (Sometimes I use 1 but you’ll get more SS with 2, obviously)
-  small metal scissors
-  two jelly jars with lids
-  small plate
-  tyvek

BAG ASSEMBLY

1.  Lay your bag out flat and cut just enough off of the sealed corners that the tube of poly will fit through
2D556D15-D4A8-4EDE-9EEA-3A9FE5A80C9A.jpeg

2.  Attach the tubes with 2 zip ties so that the zip tie heads are opposite each other (this is so if there’s a gap at the zip tie head, having two of them closes each other’s gap—all attachments to bags are done this way)
E0168107-AE5B-4301-A3FE-8D95620E0085.jpeg

Do that on both sides
CCF89AAA-BA09-4ED5-944B-4336377B2C59.jpeg

I do this so that steam can enter the bag easily when it’s sealed and the bag doesn’t explode in the pc

3. Cut a small hole and Take your syringe barrel stuffed with poly and attach it to the bag in the middle between the tubing vents... make sure you attach it so that that needle port is on the outside (this is where I plug the hosing from the fish tank bubbler to inflate the bag)
092B90FC-990A-4E81-9B26-BAF9D4E33493.jpeg

4.  Take some tyvek and make a little pouch that the 2 empty syringes and scissors go into.. this is just to keep those items from poking the bag and keeps them nice and together
19F8AE52-E919-4696-8F4F-3A38F57CCB38.jpeg 23B81078-DC37-463C-92D5-69BC1BA9CBDB.jpeg

5.  Take your 2 jelly jars (4oz) and fill them with 30ml of water each... in one of the jars, I use a piece of rubber with nubs on it in one of the jars so that I can rake the swab tips across it to dislodge the spores from the swab.. this is the jar that I’m going to pull the SS from.  The other jar is for the prewash.
9135897C-916F-4540-8C1B-0A05285BA626.jpeg

6.  Screw the lids on loosely and put them on the plate with your tyvek pouch on top of the jars (or under one of them like in the pic) and place the plate into the oven bag and push it towards the back
4AD37CD5-1825-403F-81D4-B1BF8102DDCB.jpeg

7.  Now I seal most of the open bag end by folding the edge over about a 1/2 inch and tape it closed so that all the tape is touching and it’s flat.. I’m making it air tight.  But make sure you leave just enough open so that you can slide the vacuum sealed pouch of swab(s) into the bag
2E80F884-8227-4662-8750-BD139B5AAE1B.jpeg

8.  Take that little section that is untapped and roll it up and fold it over (do that a couple times) and zip tie it somewhat loosely.. this just secured the open part so it doesn’t get exposed to air before we’re ready to use it after pc’ing.  Before you do that make sure you push as much air out of the bag as possible
0E4BAB5B-41B2-48EC-8E06-787A966C3376.jpeg

9.  Now I just ball it up as small as I can and make a foil ball (big piece on the bottom that it sits in and a big piece over that) similar to this
701142E4-93E8-40BD-BC7E-2FD8BC13F849.jpeg

10. Pc this for 45 mins (You can probably do less if you want but that’s what I do) if you’re just doing swabs or prints @ 15psi and 1.5 hours if you’re doing a clone to grain and need to sterilize the Jelly jar of grain in the bag.

Now the fun part..

SWAB TO SS (spore solution)

**some pictures might look different because they were taken during a different swab to SS session and since it was only me, I wasn’t able to get some pics of the whole process.. just gonna have to use your imagination at times

1.  Once the pc is cool, take your vacuum sealed swabs and Iso the whole thing.. then take a piece of paper towel and soak it with H2o2.. do the same with another piece and sandwich the vacuum pouch between them.. do this in the area where the transfer into the bag is going to take place.  The idea with this is that it will keep the outside of the pouch clean while you’re setting up the rest of the bag for the transfer
638531A8-472B-4FE1-9B2E-39E5A4DFEFB9.jpeg

2.  Take the ball out of the Pc and unball it.. lay the bag out so the part you left opening for the transfer is right by your H2o2 pouch sandwich.

3.  Cut the zip tie closing off the transfer opening and unfold and unroll it, keeping the bag as flat as possible... were trying to keep out as much air from inside the bag as possible.

4. Very quickly, slide the pouch into the bag.. again, keeping the opening as flat as possible.

5. After the pouch is in the bag, reroll and fold the opening back up and zip tie it closed.  Here’s the bag after the pouch is inside and the zip tie is on
F823A891-B410-4BC4-AC5F-0F50C7C717F0.jpeg

6. Once the pouch is sealed back up, you need to attach the fish tank bubbler hose to the syringe needle port and turn it on to inflate the bag.. takes about 10 minutes to get the bag to a manageable size
D3632358-0026-45B6-92ED-9F68962ADCC2.jpeg BC54399C-C652-4E5B-BF08-7DD4B8E3AC51.jpeg D24FB278-B696-4503-851B-A7CF2D8B5E10.jpeg 81B32DAC-D83A-4D28-85E0-27DC3088201D.jpeg

This is so the bag doesn’t collapse on your work. 

7.  Once the bag is inflated enough, unplug the bubbler.

I don’t have a lot of pics of the next processes because it was only me and I only have two hands lol, but maybe I’ll update later with pics if I have a helper

8.  Take the scissors out of the tyvek pouch (carefully... don’t want to cut the bag) and put your fingers through it from outside the bag.. takes a bit of practice because you need to have slack In the bag in between the scissor holes so when you open the scissors, the bag doesn’t stop you from doing so.
F1EC326E-94C7-4533-9D02-BEF1A1C6983A.jpeg

9.  Carefully cut the vacuum sealed pouch (cut the swab pouch at the same time) off around the swab sticks a little above where the break is.. so about right where I’ve drawn this line
7527D119-8425-403E-8650-754935C0FD00.jpeg

10.  Once you’ve cut around the sticks, you can pull that short piece off that has the swab tips in it and the stick ends will be sticking (no pun intended) out.  Put the long pice aside, it’s no longer needed

11.  Now unscrew and remove the lids on your jelly jars.

12.  Pull the swabs out of the cut pouch and take one in each hand (if you have two.. and make sure you hold onto the sticks tightly.. don’t want them to poke through the bag) and dip them in the prewash jar a few times to remove any nasties that might have landed on the surface of the swab.. I rub the swabs together lightly if there’s two.. if only using one, touch the swab tip to the side of the jar wall a couple times

13.  Now take the swab tips to the second jar with the rubber pad in it and dip the swabs in the water and vigorously rub the tips together.. after that, rake the tips Across the surface of the rubber pad that has nubs on it... this helps dislodge the spores from the swab tip.. do this until the swab looks like most/all of the spores have been released into the water

14. Put the swabs aside, we’re done with them.  Take your syringe out of the tyvek pouch and carefully (don’t want the needle to poke the bag—best to not let it touch anything but the water/jar) suck up your SS from the second jar.. like the scissors, you need to take a lot of bag slack between the hand holding the syringe barrel and the hand pulling the plunger otherwise the bag is going to stop you from pulling the plunger all the way up. 

Once the syringe(s) are full, you’re done!  Rip the bag open and retrieve the syringe(s).  Make sure you cut off the reusable pieces on your bag (tubing, syringe barrel) before you throw the bag away.

You can also do traditional prints to SS with this contraption.. all the set up is the same (clean and vacuum seal a foil print) as with swabs, but instead of dipping swabs, you just use one jar of water and cut the foil print out of the vacuum pouch.. then open the print and scrape the spores into the jar of water, either with the syringe needle or with another metal tool/scraper and suck the SS up into the syringe.  Here’s me holding the open print.. you can see the little scraper I pc’d inside the bag (went into the tyvek pouch)
3DF1C19E-30AE-4A21-AE54-C8D89C4BEE1C.jpeg

I successfully made AA+ SS from a print this way.. first flush:
98FCC4A2-AE5F-44C1-85DB-1361787A3CB1.jpeg

Second flush
A8D0E6E5-82E7-48CF-A63D-C8C51C957F90.jpeg

I also went from print to SS with RW and that culture is sitting dried out in a jelly jar until I have more time/room to grow it out. (Label goes on the bottom of the jar.. I moved it for the pic
29369C00-519D-4E70-98D9-54CA3EB93E2D.jpeg

I know that’s a lot and if you read the whole thing.. thanks

minus the pc time, it’s all really fast.. 10 minutes to set up the bag and get it ready for the pc and 15 minutes to do the actual transfer and spore collection and I feel much better about doing it than using a SAB, but that’s just me

Faht
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#34 fahtster

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Posted 14 November 2020 - 05:05 PM

F2 syringes are made

D99C0C01-1D12-4838-A1A0-BE0E79FBF403.jpeg
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#35 fahtster

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 12:15 AM

Had 2gms of tea with the PEA+ and they’re PE potent and I’m pretty excited about it

Faht

#36 Freaky

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 12:08 PM

I'm looking forward to your F2 results! I've always liked how you use the oven bags - they really are versatile for use in this hobby. 


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#37 fahtster

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 01:45 PM

Having tested them, I’m running another round of the f1 (made a replacement GLC jelly jar when I made the cakes).. going to run them in the 16qt shorter tubs and try the laymixing with a thick top layer (CV) and see how they do
6049F8BF-1881-46DA-9717-7B37A62E2E17.jpeg

Oh and Freaky, since I can’t post pics in pm’s I wanted to say that in my lid thread, I say that you can use the GLC and the let the jelly jar recolonize and then use it again.. nowadays, I don’t do that. I’ve lost too many 2nd round jars to bacteria doing that.. I’d just use it once and just make new jelly jars when you make the qts and knock those up along with the qts like the above pic shows

Faht
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#38 Freaky

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 06:21 PM

Oh and Freaky, since I can’t post pics in pm’s I wanted to say that in my lid thread, I say that you can use the GLC and the let the jelly jar recolonize and then use it again.. nowadays, I don’t do that. I’ve lost too many 2nd round jars to bacteria doing that.. I’d just use it once and just make new jelly jars when you make the qts and knock those up along with the qts like the above pic shows

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Thanks Faht! I'll most likely just knock up a new master when I do the quarts or save a master in a syringe in the fridge I can use later.  Also, I'll use half pints for mine rather than the smaller jelly jars like you use since that's what I have the most of. I'm thinking it will allow me more room to shake if I fill half full in the half pint. Or are those half pints in your pic? Not the 4 oz jelly jars right?


Edited by Freaky, 15 November 2020 - 06:22 PM.


#39 fahtster

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 06:36 PM

Those are jelly jars, but 1/2 pints should work fine too.. those jelly jars look full but there’s room in there for shaking. The reason I use the jelly jars is because the more grain you use, the water is going to get stuck in the jar because it sticks to the grain.. when I inject 20ml of water into the jelly jar, I get about 12ml back (That’s when the grain is hydrated—you’ll get more from a jar that has dried out grain—don’t let the water sit in the dried out grain super long either. It’ll absorb it pretty quickly)... 1/2 pints should be ok though.. just keep those things in mind.

Faht

Edited by fahtster, 15 November 2020 - 06:37 PM.

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#40 Freaky

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Awards Bar:

Posted 15 November 2020 - 07:33 PM

Those are jelly jars, but 1/2 pints should work fine too.. those jelly jars look full but there’s room in there for shaking. The reason I use the jelly jars is because the more grain you use, the water is going to get stuck in the jar because it sticks to the grain.. when I inject 20ml of water into the jelly jar, I get about 12ml back (That’s when the grain is hydrated—you’ll get more from a jar that has dried out grain—don’t let the water sit in the dried out grain super long either. It’ll absorb it pretty quickly)... 1/2 pints should be ok though.. just keep those things in mind.

Faht

 

Excellent! Thanks again Faht! And if I struggle with the half pints and issues I'll swap over to the smaller jelly jars. 


  • fahtster likes this




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