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Spawn ratio and sterilizing manure


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#1 toldmedat

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 01:02 AM

I keep trying to Google it but people only write ratio with no explanation. What is the preferred ratio for cococoir to colonized grain? Does 1:2 imply 1 part cococoir to 2 part colonised grain or the other way round? Does it have to be exactly 3 inches deep in total in the box?
Also I know that people omit manure because of the likely hood of contamination? Is it possible to sterilize it in pc, inside a mushroom bag to reduce contamination? I already bought two bags that I really hope I can use, instead of tossing it.
Thank you for reading and responding.

#2 Baphom3t

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 09:24 AM

When you see 1:1, that means 1 part spawn to 1 part substrate. The way ratios are explained depends on the person you're talking to. What I mean by that is, I use the term spawn : sub. Some people flip it and say sub : spawn.
So if I was to say use a 1:2 that means you'd use 1 part spawn to 2 parts substrate.
There are plenty of spawn to sub ratio posts here at topia.

Just gotta poke around and look.
If you are adding verm to your coir you could always do a 1:2:1,  1 part spawn, 2 parts sub, 1 part verm. You could do 1:3:1 also.
What's the size of the tubs you're using?  3 inches in depth is about average.
If you are going to use just coir as your substrate you can sterilize it, but most people just pasteurize by means of nuking it. When I use coir I nuke it for like 12 - 14 minutes let it cool down.From my understanding there are various microbes in coir that help fend of the nasties that you don't want but are killed when sterilized.

Hope that helps


Edited by Baphom3t, 12 November 2020 - 09:29 AM.


#3 toldmedat

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 10:46 AM

When you see 1:1, that means 1 part spawn to 1 part substrate. The way ratios are explained depends on the person you're talking to. What I mean by that is, I use the term spawn : sub. Some people flip it and say sub : spawn.
So if I was to say use a 1:2 that means you'd use 1 part spawn to 2 parts substrate.
There are plenty of spawn to sub ratio posts here at topia.
Just gotta poke around and look.
If you are adding verm to your coir you could always do a 1:2:1, 1 part spawn, 2 parts sub, 1 part verm. You could do 1:3:1 also.
What's the size of the tubs you're using? 3 inches in depth is about average.
If you are going to use just coir as your substrate you can sterilize it, but most people just pasteurize by means of nuking it. When I use coir I nuke it for like 12 - 14 minutes let it cool down.From my understanding there are various microbes in coir that help fend of the nasties that you don't want but are killed when sterilized.

Hope that helps

Would this work for mushroom manure too or just coco coir you nuke? When you mean nuke you mean pressure cook yes?
Container is 14" L, 10" W, 7" H. I don't think I'll be able to get 3" with the calculation I made and the container. I also just have one jar fully colonised
c3f2461a271a0a1ab409049831296490.jpg14dd8fd89875e57482a46094cadaea67.jpg

Edited by toldmedat, 12 November 2020 - 11:15 AM.


#4 Baphom3t

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 04:10 PM

Nuke = Microwave
Microwave = pasteurization
Pressure Cooker = sterilization
Manure needs sterilized.

I noticed that's a small plastic dresser on wheels you use for clothes and pull out like drawers. I'm no expert but I don't think those will work.
You want something like this. -----> https://www.walmart....-White/10401038

58 qt is pretty big for what you have.
Looks like you need to shake those 2  1qt. jars.
The little jar is ready to fruit but is not gonna do much in a tub until those other 2 are fully colonized. Give them a good shake and see if them couple spots that the myc is staying away from fill in after about a week.
Spots where myc stay away from are normally a sign of some sort of bacterial funk goin' on.
 



#5 toldmedat

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 07:20 PM

Nuke = Microwave
Microwave = pasteurization
Pressure Cooker = sterilization
Manure needs sterilized.

I noticed that's a small plastic dresser on wheels you use for clothes and pull out like drawers. I'm no expert but I don't think those will work.
You want something like this. -----> https://www.walmart....-White/10401038

58 qt is pretty big for what you have.
Looks like you need to shake those 2 1qt. jars.
The little jar is ready to fruit but is not gonna do much in a tub until those other 2 are fully colonized. Give them a good shake and see if them couple spots that the myc is staying away from fill in after about a week.
Spots where myc stay away from are normally a sign of some sort of bacterial funk goin' on.

Thank you. I was just reading up the different between pasteurization and sterilization. Pasteurise being for substrate and sterilize being for colonised spawn. I've decided to mix coco coir + mushroom manure + gypsum to make up my substrate. But I have no idea the amount of water to add to get it to field capacity? This is mostly because the bucket tek is focused on brick coco coir but loose cococoir is cheaper for me.

Also I tried breaking the Colonised Spawn to shake it. It's as hard as rock and I could only get it to break in half. *tears. I'm hoping for anything at this point.

#6 jkdeth

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 10:48 PM

Your spawn looks good. It will be fine whole you sort out substrate. Shaking can speed colonization and sometimes give early warning of hidden contamination. But its not required.


Concerning substrate, what exactly are you using when you say manure. It can make a difference in the ratios you should use.

That bucket tek is great, used as it was written. As originally written it was roughly 8 quarts and two quarts vermiculite, designed for a 66 quart tub, and using 5 quarts spawn. A brick of coir expands to about 8 quarts.

The tek works because coir bricks and vermiculite are dam near sterile.

When you add manure to the mix, you need a better pasteurization method, 4 to 8 hours at 155 F. That's when you're killing the mold spores and bad microbes, but encouraging the good.

If you sterilize a manure rich substrate, your adding risk, just due to nutrient density. I've done it, but only with small tubs, one or two quarts. Small enough I could handle spawning in the sab.
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#7 toldmedat

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 11:33 PM

Your spawn looks good. It will be fine whole you sort out substrate. Shaking can speed colonization and sometimes give early warning of hidden contamination. But its not required.


Concerning substrate, what exactly are you using when you say manure. It can make a difference in the ratios you should use.

That bucket tek is great, used as it was written. As originally written it was roughly 8 quarts and two quarts vermiculite, designed for a 66 quart tub, and using 5 quarts spawn. A brick of coir expands to about 8 quarts.

The tek works because coir bricks and vermiculite are dam near sterile.

When you add manure to the mix, you need a better pasteurization method, 4 to 8 hours at 155 F. That's when you're killing the mold spores and bad microbes, but encouraging the good.

If you sterilize a manure rich substrate, your adding risk, just due to nutrient density. I've done it, but only with small tubs, one or two quarts. Small enough I could handle spawning in the sab.

I tried to shake the colonised spawn and it was almost impossible. It was brown rice that must have stuck together too well. It would only break in half (waiting for the hubby to help). I have loose coco coir which is so much cheaper than brick coco coir where I am. I'm trying to make a substrate mix of coco coir/vermiculite/composted mushroom manure/gypsum. Im thinking 50%/40%/5%/5%. I was initially going for chicken manure but from what I've read it has a high nitrogen that can be harmful. I also omitted coffee because I presume the nitrogen filled mushroom manure would be enough. So I cannot go with the bucket tek. I've decided to try getting the substrate mix to a field capacity with 1g substrate mix: 5ml water. Then pasteurize at 145f -175f for two hours in an oven bag placed in a pot of hot water.

#8 jkdeth

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 02:41 AM

Not sure what that composted mushroom manure is. At 5 per cent, it won't matter too much. That mix would work. You'd do fine with a higher amount of coir though.

Hold back a portion of the verm, or at least have extra on hand, in case you overhydrate.
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#9 toldmedat

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 03:20 AM

Not sure what that composted mushroom manure is. At 5 per cent, it won't matter too much. That mix would work. You'd do fine with a higher amount of coir though.

Hold back a portion of the verm, or at least have extra on hand, in case you overhydrate.

Good point. Thank you.

#10 FunG

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 07:05 AM

You have it abit mixed up.

Sterilization is for substrates like pf cakes/grains or non-nutricious bulk material like coir/verm.

Manure should be pasteurized not sterilized, manure is full of beneficial micro organsisms that prevent competitor organisms like green mold/cobweb from getting a foothold but can be broken down by p.cubensis and used as a source of food.

Also, you would not want to sterilize manure in a PC, the smell would be of a giant fart, same goes for oven sterilization.

#11 toldmedat

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 08:36 AM

You have it abit mixed up.

Sterilization is for substrates like pf cakes/grains or non-nutricious bulk material like coir/verm.

Manure should be pasteurized not sterilized, manure is full of beneficial micro organsisms that prevent competitor organisms like green mold/cobweb from getting a foothold but can be broken down by p.cubensis and used as a source of food.

Also, you would not want to sterilize manure in a PC, the smell would be of a giant fart, same goes for oven sterilization.

That makes sense. Thank you.

#12 toldmedat

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 12:16 AM

Is there an easy tek to just grow the 250ml jar already colonised? Thank you




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