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Help... no idea what's going on with these two grows


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#1 Nicked

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 07:03 AM

Hi all... a while back I made a donation to Topia and was sent a fantastic lucky packet of prints including an Albino PF and something that coorsmikey has been working on called ARX (an Albino cross of sorts). I've been trying to get these two going for months to no avail. My first attempts the grain spawn contaminated on me and most recently I have managed to get some great fully colonised grain spawn for both varieties. Spawning to bulk went well, with a 1:2 ratio of 1qt spawn to 4qt coir/verm substrate. A grteat pinset developed on both and that's kind of where it stopped. They're not getting past pin size before aborting and I have no idea why. An interesting thing here is the insane pinsets they throw out.. Almost as if there is a contam of sorts in the tubs and they're trying their damndest to reproduce...and failing. It really sucks cos both of these strains are on the more unusual spectrum of things to grow and I'd love to get them going. Would be great to hear some thoughts on this... and i can hopefully get them going somehow. 

 

Here are two photos I took this morning. 

 

Albino PF

IMG_20201112_083554.jpg

 

ARX

IMG_20201112_083604.jpg


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#2 coorsmikey

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 09:46 AM

In my experience, typically when there are awesome pinsets that don't fully develop its because of the demand for water or there is not enough water available for all those pins to mature into monsters. I've seen it happen from genetics as well but they wouldn't get as big as what you have pictured. Those pic actually looks pretty good like the are starting to mature and the fact that you are getting the same results with different strains suggest that it environmental over genetics.

 

If it were me in that situation, I would bottom water one of those and leave the other one to do what its gonna do. I see a liner so bottom water might be a lil difficult. maybe peel the liner back and take a chance on the side pins? I would add about 40ml of water and watch what it does. if it soaks it up in a few hours I would add more. If the sub doesn't soak it up then I would put of the excess. I suggest leaving the other one alone while test so you have a control to see if what you are doing does actually make a difference. If it seems to work then do the other one a day or two later. I would probably consider adding a little bit more water to the substrate preparation as well if you plan on doing more tubs in the future.

 

Also keep in mind that ARX is a new strain and is very young. Its probably still adapting to new media and substrates and learning to produce the enzymes to digest different foods. Early in its production the crazy pinsets and not maturing was in its history which I believe is in the Colchicum/Colchicine thread. Of course the ones with that history never made it into the batch that is in circulation now because I couldn't get spores. Your pics don't look anything like that though. Like I mentioned your pics look beautiful and healthy. To be honest it is crazy strain to cultivate. That what makes it so fun and interesting though. You are not the first person to have challenges with growing it. I think you will find that its a lil more high maintenance than some other cubes, but will get it going. The feedback I get is that its well worth it.


Edited by coorsmikey, 12 November 2020 - 09:49 AM.

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#3 Freaky

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 01:24 PM

Way back when I grew PF Albino I found they preferred a drier casing and bit lower RH when fruiting.  Not sure if that can help but is what I remember from when I grew them out. 


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#4 coorsmikey

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 08:40 PM

Yeah, I didn't even consider that the OP's issues could also most definitely be caused by drowning as well. I did pic that up from the pics, but too wet can cause aborts too. Thanks Freaky!


Edited by coorsmikey, 12 November 2020 - 08:41 PM.

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#5 Nicked

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 10:44 PM

Thanks for the responses! Really super helpful. Thank you. I'll keep going at it and carry on plugging away until I figure it out. An extra bit of info is that three other tubs were prepped with the same substrate and are now already in their 2nd flushes (standard cubes) while those two have stalled and slowed down completely. I tend to make my sub a little drier so pretty sure they're not drowning... Will give one a bit of bottom watering and see what happens. I put a T2 and T5 plate of ARX to grain last night so I'm going to see if those give me some fruits. Ideally I want some prints for my print stock and a clone to grow for a while so I'm not gonna give up until then.
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#6 Freaky

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 12:29 AM

I used to keep notes on my grows but I haven't located my old notebooks yet - lost is a lot of old storage items.  If I happen to come across the PF Ablino notes I will definitely share with you anything that may help.  I've got some 10 year old spore syringes of them just taking off on agar right now so I'm motivated to find those notes.

 

Your plan sounds solid and likely to get you to your goal.


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#7 sandman

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 05:42 AM

Many pins that never develop was always because of TOO WET substrate IME.



#8 FunG

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 06:17 AM

Could just be genetics.

Ms lottery isn't always going to produce huge bountiful flushes like expected.

Mix matching p.cubensis spores to create "hybrids" is also counter productive to stabilizing a good fruiting strain.

When workman created penis envy albino he did so by splicing two single spores together, one was a albino the other pe. As I recall he had to use snake venom to destabilize the cellular membrane of either the albino spore or pe spore in order to get the two to swap genetic footprints or some egg head stuff I cant really remember.

What i do know is it took alot more then mixing spores together of various cubensis to achieve ape and that goes for RR's pe 6 as well. Which is crossed between pe and Texan.

The only notable one is fahster combining pe with a albino and getting slightly paler caps and more convex but if it was single spores of the two then I'd imagine the results would be even more refined.

Trying g not to be contradicting but yea, after reading workman's notes on developing ape I know that theres alot more to biologically engineering a mushroom strain then meets the eye.




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