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BRF - 1st attempt questions


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#1 jrh

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 10:02 AM

I've just made my first attempt at BRF tek, and I've got a few questions.

 

1. I inoculated with LC but I do not believe that the liquid ran down the sides of the jars to the bottom, which seems like it'll cause things to take longer and maybe stall out / fail. It's because my holes in the lid weren't close enough to the edges I'm sure. Oh, and also because I'm using pint jars as that is what I had on hand. Assuming I remake lids with holes closer to the edges, will the pint jars be a problem? I guess they'll take longer to colonize when it sounds like fast fast fast is the name of the BRF game, so probably I should get some half pint jars.

 

PXL_20201112_142929245.jpg

 

2. At the top of the jar, there is an air gap. I filled the jar with the BRF mixture, tapped on the counter a little if I saw big air gaps, but other than that didn't press the mixture down into the jar. (I used 1/2 cup brown rice flour, 1/2 cup water, and 1 cup verm per jar with a little left over.) Then I topped with dry verm, leveled, and put the lid on. Again I didn't press down on the dry verm. Will the air gap cause problems like contamination? If so, what should I do to pack the jar better?

 

PXL_20201112_143042184.jpg

 

3. Here's a pic of growth after one day.  :biggrin:  At least something went well. The inoculant was Purple Mystic LC that's pretty thick with mycelium. I put 10 ml into each jar, so roughly 2.5 ml per inoculation point.

 

PXL_20201112_143907956.jpg



#2 Alpoehi

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 04:39 PM

Can't answer the questions just want to say it looks pretty good to me. The mycelium will grow towards the bottom of the jar because when it expands all nutrients left will be at the bottom of the jar.

As long as the sub is not so compact or pressed it will also promote fast growth of the culture.

I would use these jars for spawning another medium, I often used BRF with 20% wheat grain in a growbag.

I'm not so experienced with tubs I used larger growbags till full colonization of the medium then I dunked to initiate fruiting and put the cake in a separate fruiting chamber.

 


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#3 jrh

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 05:09 PM

Could you describe how you used the BRF with wheat grain? That sounds interesting. Or does it mean your BRF recipe included whole wheat grains?

 

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with these guys. Honestly, I was thinking of throwing some perlite in a gallon ziplock bag and putting a cake in there (after the dunk and roll).



#4 Alpoehi

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 08:53 AM

I found this way of doing BRF because it's a quick way of growing.

Because the BRF does not have so many nutrients than a rye substrate I add 20% of boiled wheat whole grain to it. Just boil it as if you would want to eat it then you're fine.

Basically when having found a BRF recipe that works well in jars I do the same recipe in larger amounts, fill a large growbag with it and pressure cook alltogether (Make sure that the lid of a pc remains unvovered from the inside when pc'ing a filled growbag).

I inoculate the cooled down growbag with the fully colonized jar. Of course I have to open the sterilized growbag and the jar for this but it is for a very short time and I have conical jars so I can let the colonized content of the jar fall inside of the grobwag, then close it and mix all together with the hands from outside.

I let it sit then for 2 weeks. It will colonize, sometimes it will contaminate but in many cases it has come from the content of the jar so when your jar has been very clean you have a good chance of it not to contaminate.

 

The mycelium will feed on it and the flush will be intense enough for a good yield.

 

The first time you can dunk it the usual way but with this technique dunking a 2nd time or even a 3rd time is not the best thing to do because larger parts of the substrate get eaten up by the mycelium, it's used up then and it decays. 

I had trich growing on it so it is best to toss all of it after the first flush is completed.

 

Remember this is a quick grower and I love it growing fast!

 

You can also add some grains to the initial recipe it's just to provide for more nutrients and it's not recessary for colonization but helps in the stage of pinning and fruiting.

Perlite in a ziplock bag is fine and it works very well but in my case I found the yield to be too small. That's why I started with the growbags.

As long as the cakes are in a closed environment the contamination risk is kept minimal, some even don't take them out of the growbag and let them fruit in the growbag until harvest.

 

I think you are best advised letting your jars fruit in the ziplock bag best is to not get into contact with the perlite though.

I used a piece of fence or a cut grill grate to ensure the cake has a distance from the wet perlite. It should work out fine then and you don't have to spray it with water anymore.

 

Happy grow  :smile: !

 


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#5 FunnyFarmer

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 10:27 AM

Normally 1/2 pint jars are used as anything larger can stall and develop contams.  Hopefully you won't have problems down the line but they will take much longer to colonize.

 

If all goes well instead of birthing and let fruit you could slice the cakes into poo substrate for an even bigger yield. I haven't done that many BRF's but my results have been less than stellar, biggest problem being after a mediocre first flush they refused to do any more. That happened with a couple B+ cakes so I sliced them to poo substrate and so far they are in the process of colonizing the substrate. I did the same thing with Argentina cakes after birthing but I don't think I let it colonize the substrate long enough as the fruiting wasn't very vigorous. Keep my mistakes in mind with your efforts.


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#6 jrh

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 10:45 AM

Yeah, I've seen pics of brf cakes with like 5 mushrooms on them, so not thrilling yields. I mainly did it because I started with an all-in-one bag ordered online and got lucky my first time, but that was months ago -- and even then, I was getting in my own way without realizing it. So I wanted to do some BRF cakes and put in some time to actually learn what it was I was trying to do.

 

I like your idea of making a little tub w/poo and brf. I know I can order some hpoo substrate in bags online. Lemme see if there's a recipe I can find for making it using stuff I can buy or order.



#7 bezevo

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 11:49 AM

GOOD LUCK !

 

heres link below to  a thread about the  latest PF tek Magic For The Masses  .............

In the very first post is a link for a Free PDF book ...Yaaaaa  Free book , good luck

 

https://mycotopia.ne...for-the-masses/


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#8 Boebs

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 12:54 PM

Ive always used pint jars, they take a little longer, and typically need to add just a bit more water to them to keep them hydrated threw colonizing.
But if you used lc it should be fine.
They look like they are doing good tho.
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#9 ilikethings

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 05:38 PM

based your bottom pic of the myc taking off after just one day is impressive...I usually have to wait 3 days to see small white myc growth starting.  I forget the technical mycology term....ahh here you go...from my notes..."Once they germinate, you will have several Monokaryotic strands of mycelium (unable to produce a fruit body) emanating from the spores. They will then join with other compatible Monokaryotic strands to form clamp connections thus forming dikaryotic mycelium (able to produce a fruit body)."

 

I would not mess with your jars and just let them ride...


Edited by ilikethings, 17 November 2020 - 05:41 PM.

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#10 jrh

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 06:43 PM

I used liquid culture. That's why it was able to start so quickly. I did need more moisture for the larger jars though. They're taking a little longer than I expected to finish colonizing
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#11 ilikethings

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 05:05 PM

@jrh, ahhh that explains it.  As I thought about it, if I'm inoculating jars with just a MS syringe it could actually take 4-5 days to see myc.  I've used MS innoced liquid cultures a bit (i need to get into agar work) and yes they saw myc in just a day or two.  Odd thing is that the one time i used/made a LC (with karo and water i think), the "cloud" of myc seemed to stop growing after it hit about the size of a grape--in a half pint jar.  I should have noticed from the pic that u used a LC...i.e. when i used LC's the first myc is more of a dispersed pattern as opposed to a concentrated round spot.


Edited by ilikethings, 18 November 2020 - 05:10 PM.

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#12 cujoloki

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 06:21 PM

Nice for a 1st try mate! So to answer your questions...

1. Are pint jars a problem? It isnt when you add enough aggressive spawn.

2.Are air gaps bad/good? Air gaps are great. They buffer contams by making sure the seal/filter isnt wet. Some brf teks fill the last gap with vermiculite. This makes sure that you have a dry barrier in between the colonizing mycelium and the potential contams that are on the other side of the filter. Filling all the way with the brf would/may get too wet and then in turn wet the filter which invites contams.. logically.

3. Not a question i think.. But Good job :hippie3:


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#13 bezevo

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 11:08 AM

i like the  shorter 1/2 pint jars with larger lids ,,  after there colonized and birthed you can stack two . if you like .  .. just personal preference less time to colonize

a 1/2 pint jar ...

 

good luck

 

https://www.startpag...f8b1444ad2f2f12


Edited by bezevo, 20 November 2020 - 11:14 AM.

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#14 jrh

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 12:02 PM

Yes, I can see why they 1/2 pt jars are preferable because of colonization times.

 

My pint jars are looking clean, but it looks like the standard BRF recipe doesn't have quite enough moisture for the jars to finish colonizing as quickly as they started. I'm going on 9 days and one of my three jars is almost done, and the other two have noticeable gaps.

 

PXL_20201120_163914413.jpg  PXL_20201120_163851167.jpg

 

I was out of town for a few days so things were cooler than normal and also very dry. I turned on a cool air mister in the room and and they've made a lot more progress in the 24 hrs since I did that.

 

I'm hoping they'll finish in a few more days, and then I guess another week before it's time to birth them?

 

I don't have any unusual plans for them atm. I figure KISS -- keep it simple stupid. I've just started some grain jars, and I have a couple of pre-made grow bags that are looking good, so I don't need to try to do anything funky to maximize a harvest. Although I may sacrifice one to put in the bottom of a 2 L coke bottle so maybe the husband has something to photograph.

 

 



#15 ilikethings

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 05:16 PM

@jrh  looking good!  but i would refrain from opening fully un-colonized jars in the future.  iv'e been struggling during Covid to keep my fungi hobby secret as people talk to me about how to prevent microbes (covid virus) using masks et al. (to be clear i know covid is a real thing).  When I tell someone that microbes are a funny thing and masks are not really that reliable...as compared to living in giant flow hoods, they look at me like I'm crazy and state, "you just work as a  blank.  You are not a doctor!"  And I so want to say "Yes, but I have X years of experience working with fungi and such work relies on controlling unwanted microbes in the air...but I never do."

 

I'll simply state that sometimes they (microbes/bacteria/viruses) seem to get past all efforts of sanitation and other times they don't seem to be a problem, ie. I've done fungi work with little sanitation and the projects go great...and other times with a lot sterilization efforts, I'll get a lot of contams.  Just venting a bit here. :/

 

And outside of comparing fungi work to people's perception of covid, I've had times I used a lot of "santization" prior/during a project and based on posts/responses I've made here, it is the "sanitizing" substances themselves that may cause issues with fruiting, i.e. In one of my threads (don't have link handy) fellow topiates suggested that things like windex (and the compounds in it) may be what leads to deformed fruits, e.g. I had a phase where many of my caps were "upside-down" on the stems--or where the caps would be "mirrored" such that the cap would have a "twin" cap inverted on top of its cap..


Edited by ilikethings, 20 November 2020 - 05:28 PM.

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#16 jrh

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 05:21 PM

No worries. The 2nd photo is through the bottom of the jar, so he's still colonizing. Even after he's done, the tek says wait a week before birthing.


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#17 ilikethings

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 05:32 PM

@jrh O i see.  my bad.  yea id give it another week or until u start to see some pins and then birth.  i tend to wait till i see a couple little pins/primordia looking fruits.  For what it's worth, if it's your first attempt, just birth them to a properly sized storage bin and don't worry about making it a proper "fruiting chamber" with perlit and what not.  I've had good success just placing the half pint cakes like yours in a plastic bin and misting once or twice a day so the walls of the bin are not bone dry.  and as you noted above, I too have liked growing in lower than recomended temps.  far less contams even if the growth rates are a bit slower.  godspeed!

 

P.S. the odd deformities like the "mirrored caps" and the "gnome caps" may not be due to chemical compounds like those found in windex but may be for reasons I don't yet fully understand, i.e. there are several threads here about mutations occurring from excessive cloning...which, as far as I understand, are unique to fungi husbandry.  you don't see similar morphology with things like multi-generational cloned fruit trees.

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Edited by ilikethings, 20 November 2020 - 05:52 PM.

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#18 jrh

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 08:20 AM

Can one put a BRF cake in the blender or food processor and then use it as the spawn in a mini-tub (like a food carryout container)?



#19 rockyfungus

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 01:37 PM

Yes, just take a cheese grater, use your hands to tear it up. Doesn't really matter, once fully colonized pretty resistant to contam and treating it like shit.

My first BRF grow was not widemouth jars and I had to used a clean fork to pull it apart, then shredded with my hands and mixed with coco coir.

Might as well bulk it out instead of using the cakes, IMO.


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#20 jrh

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 02:27 PM

Thanks. I'll probably do one or two cakes as is, and one try spawning to sub and see if it takes.

 

Hmm, I just boiled some oats to start my forays into grain spawn... maybe I should have kept that oat water and used it to hydrate sub for the BRF cake. Oh well, live and learn.


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