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#1 Vikings333

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 11:41 AM

Tried the oven bake pasteurization last night and took a temp reading after 4 hours and it was just getting to 170 degrees. I did 2 large tins filled with 13 qts of sub each but I can’t figure why it took so long... the tek I was following said 2.5 hours total. Any ideas? Should I adjust moisture level, crank the heat, and try again? This thermometer could be off too.

#2 Vikings333

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 12:19 PM

was hoping to spawn this morning but if it wasn't properly pasteurized I dont want to waste the jars



#3 FunG

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 12:20 PM

You cant pasteurize properly in a oven without throwing the moisture content off and ontop of that if its manure based the entire place will smell like a fart, trust me. Been there, done that.

Hot water bath pasteurization is my preferred choice. Gets the job done and brings the bulk to proper field capacity...you just have to squeeze out the extra moisture.

Two things I strongly disagree with there use in this hobby and those are microwaves and ovens.

Edited by FunG, 13 November 2020 - 12:21 PM.

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#4 Vikings333

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 12:46 PM

You cant pasteurize properly in a oven without throwing the moisture content off and ontop of that if its manure based the entire place will smell like a fart, trust me. Been there, done that.

Hot water bath pasteurization is my preferred choice. Gets the job done and brings the bulk to proper field capacity...you just have to squeeze out the extra moisture.

Two things I strongly disagree with there use in this hobby and those are microwaves and ovens.

can you link me the bath tek?



#5 Freaky

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 01:05 PM

https://mycotopia.ne...eurization-123/

Eats processes and instructables have never failed me - I have been pasteurizing small bulk subs in the oven lately.  If you hydrate to field capacity and cover it properly the oven does not dry it out for the short amount of time it's in there.  You can always add moisture when spawning, it's harder to take moisture out later if you over hydrate it before pasteurization.

 

And 160-170 degrees is the temp you want to properly pasteurize.  I go 2-2.5 hours during pasteurization. 

 

When I do large bulk subs - get a large cooler place it in shower or bathtub - put your sub in a pillowcase or burlap sack - boil your water and carefully carry to the cooler.  Dump it in put a brick or stone to keep your bag materials weighted down and underwater and close it up.  Let it sit for a good 4-6 hours then take out and let it drip drain - I used to tie it on my fence in the back yard. 


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#6 Vikings333

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 01:20 PM

https://mycotopia.ne...eurization-123/

Eats processes and instructables have never failed me - I have been pasteurizing small bulk subs in the oven lately.  If you hydrate to field capacity and cover it properly the oven does not dry it out for the short amount of time it's in there.  You can always add moisture when spawning, it's harder to take moisture out later if you over hydrate it before pasteurization.

 

And 160-170 degrees is the temp you want to properly pasteurize.  I go 2-2.5 hours during pasteurization. 

 

When I do large bulk subs - get a large cooler place it in shower or bathtub - put your sub in a pillowcase or burlap sack - boil your water and carefully carry to the cooler.  Dump it in put a brick or stone to keep your bag materials weighted down and underwater and close it up.  Let it sit for a good 4-6 hours then take out and let it drip drain - I used to tie it on my fence in the back yard. 

this is what I followed. just used a thermometer and didn't reach temps after 4 hours even.. thats why im questioning my methods



#7 Freaky

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 01:29 PM

I thought you had said you reached 170 degrees on your temp reading.  That is at pasteurization temp.  

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. 

 

I break my hydrated materials into quart jars or use the tin trays but I don't pack them tight.  I pre-heat my oven to 300 while I load the jars or trays so when I open the oven to load the temperature loss in the oven puts it close to where I will want to begin heating.  Then I turn the oven temp down to 200 for 30 minutes and then put it at my lowest temp setting and set a timer for 2 hours.  

 

I don't open the oven during this time and I've not had any problems with subs not being properly pasteurized or drying out.  But, I am doing smaller amounts than I think you attempted.  

 

You did 26 quarts total of substrate packed in two trays? Are you able to split that so it isn't so compacted and dense? It may help since the heat can penetrate better into smaller amounts.

 

If you're doing that large amount of substrate - hot water bath or building a pasteurizer may need to be how you pasteurize.  



#8 Vikings333

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 01:50 PM

I thought you had said you reached 170 degrees on your temp reading.  That is at pasteurization temp.  

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. 

 

I break my hydrated materials into quart jars or use the tin trays but I don't pack them tight.  I pre-heat my oven to 300 while I load the jars or trays so when I open the oven to load the temperature loss in the oven puts it close to where I will want to begin heating.  Then I turn the oven temp down to 200 for 30 minutes and then put it at my lowest temp setting and set a timer for 2 hours.  

 

I don't open the oven during this time and I've not had any problems with subs not being properly pasteurized or drying out.  But, I am doing smaller amounts than I think you attempted.  

 

You did 26 quarts total of substrate packed in two trays? Are you able to split that so it isn't so compacted and dense? It may help since the heat can penetrate better into smaller amounts.

 

If you're doing that large amount of substrate - hot water bath or building a pasteurizer may need to be how you pasteurize.  

thanks. ya 26 its in two trays. ya I can split that up. I may give it another run tonight just to be safe...and I think I opened the oven to much.

 

Been looking into the hot water bath and even the su vide to keep water at the precise temp. but not sure I want to deal with ringing out a pillowcase or something of soggy sub.

 

whats the pasteurizer? like the tub hooked up the the pc to use steam?


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#9 Freaky

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 03:05 PM

Yes, you can run a tube from your PC to steam your pasteurizer or some people have used wall paper steamers or something.  That's always too much work and more things laying around for me.  If you use a cooler in a shower or bathtub you can just hang it to drain/drip out - I always just put outside as it drained and cooled at a quicker rate.

 

Try separating and quartering what you have and try the oven again.  Check field capacity again just to be sure it's not changed since original hydration.  I think maybe the smaller amounts may work out better if using the oven.


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#10 Vikings333

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 07:48 PM

Went ahead and used that sub as is and spawned 2 60qt tubs. Took a peak today 8 days later. So far so good.

 

New batch of LC looking good too!

 

 

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#11 Vikings333

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 06:09 PM

When is the LC good to go? I want to test it and then get some more jars going



#12 PJammer24

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 02:03 PM

Yes, you can run a tube from your PC to steam your pasteurizer or some people have used wall paper steamers or something.  That's always too much work and more things laying around for me.  If you use a cooler in a shower or bathtub you can just hang it to drain/drip out - I always just put outside as it drained and cooled at a quicker rate.

 

Try separating and quartering what you have and try the oven again.  Check field capacity again just to be sure it's not changed since original hydration.  I think maybe the smaller amounts may work out better if using the oven.

 

Hey Freak meista!! Do you have a like to a tek for modifying the PC to provide steam to the pasteurization chamber? I am one of those guys who uses the wall paper steamers and have in the past used a clothes steamer. I would like to check out how people have modified the PC to provide the steam. I envision plastic tubing on the steam outlet where the rocker would sit. Is there a way of doing it with an autoclave that does not utilize a rocker?

 

My methods work just fine so it is no big deal but if you have the time to point me in that teks direction, I would appreciate it! Posting it here would be just fine but even better would be to send it in a DM... Other than the last week or so, I have not been on as often. I also am not real good at revisiting threads I have posted to even when I am on daily.

 

If you get to it, I appreciate you spending the time!  

 

Thanks!



#13 DickMoby

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 02:18 PM

So I gave manure another chance and hydrated horse manure pellets with boiling water because those things are rock hard and theres no way to get something handable without boiling water.

After alot of checking and mixing I had no chance but let it soak over night.

 

The next day I added some straw pellets and filled a few jars with closed lids that were put into the dehydrator to pasteurize.

 

The jars were cooling down and sat for two days.

Just opened one 15 mins ago to bulk some Tamps but after opening the jar, there was gas coming out and the whole room still smells like a cow farted on me.

 

The manure had a light manure smell before but not like a fart, well I bulked the tray and hope it colonizes, didn't do the other two trays tho and only keep that one for safety reasons.

 

Is it normal that pasteurized manure smells like fart ?



#14 rockyfungus

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 05:16 PM

My manure typically smells nice and grassy. Maybe it wasn't aged enough? You talking bagged manure or field ripened?

Based on it smelling like literal shit, I would most likely throw it outside in a big pile with a tarp, water it daily, till it leaches and doesn't smell.  (Unless this is old information, just the way I've gone about chicken, horse, cow, and even alpaca manure.



#15 DickMoby

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Posted 23 November 2020 - 05:33 PM

Manure pellets, I've used them for pans before and the colonization was good.

The smell hydrated is relatively mild but still smells like manure.

The jars now tho actually smell like fart, really like fart, not like manure.

 

I did read somewhere here coming from other members that giving the pasteurized manure a couple days to let the good bacteria recover is a good idea, those jars are with closed lids, without any gasexchange.

Not sure if the fart gas is coming from bacteria working or if I should rather throw the whole thing out.

 

Wouldn't be an issue if the smell was just manure but this was seriously like a cow farted in my face, the whole room smelled like that for about half an hour



#16 DickMoby

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 10:48 AM

Just some feedback.

 

PSX_20201126_164148.jpg

 

The manure/straw gets colonized realtively solid by Atlantis.

I took the other two jars outside today to let the gas out, the lids started showing signs of expanding gas.

 

The smell is still like if it came freshly out of an animal + some fart but since the colonization looks good and theres no mold growing in the jars, I'd assume that its just the good bacteria working.

 

Gonna bulk the other two trays aswell and see how they fruit



#17 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 11:43 AM

Any temperature over 168° will kill the beneficial microbes you encourage to multiply during pasteurization. Over 168 = sterilization. 140-160 is pasteurization, and will cause fire fang (actinomycetes) to proliferate.

#18 DickMoby

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 12:04 PM

Any temperature over 168° will kill the beneficial microbes you encourage to multiply during pasteurization. Over 168 = sterilization. 140-160 is pasteurization, and will cause fire fang (actinomycetes) to proliferate.

 

The jars were put into the dehydrator and set to 158 fahrenheit.

To check the temp I used a meat thermometer on both sides - in front of the air stream and behind the jars. The temp was ~154 - 165 fahrenheit over not sure exactly ~4-5 hours.

 

Never pasteurized before, always used manure or worm compost in sterilized bags, jars or microboxes that were directly inoculated.

 

The smell and the gas is what concerns me a little but seems to colonize good.

Smells just horrible, definately not gonna do bigger bulks with that



#19 Freaky

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 01:12 AM

 

Yes, you can run a tube from your PC to steam your pasteurizer or some people have used wall paper steamers or something.  That's always too much work and more things laying around for me.  If you use a cooler in a shower or bathtub you can just hang it to drain/drip out - I always just put outside as it drained and cooled at a quicker rate.

 

Try separating and quartering what you have and try the oven again.  Check field capacity again just to be sure it's not changed since original hydration.  I think maybe the smaller amounts may work out better if using the oven.

 

Hey Freak meista!! Do you have a like to a tek for modifying the PC to provide steam to the pasteurization chamber? I am one of those guys who uses the wall paper steamers and have in the past used a clothes steamer. I would like to check out how people have modified the PC to provide the steam. I envision plastic tubing on the steam outlet where the rocker would sit. Is there a way of doing it with an autoclave that does not utilize a rocker?

 

My methods work just fine so it is no big deal but if you have the time to point me in that teks direction, I would appreciate it! Posting it here would be just fine but even better would be to send it in a DM... Other than the last week or so, I have not been on as often. I also am not real good at revisiting threads I have posted to even when I am on daily.

 

If you get to it, I appreciate you spending the time!  

 

Thanks!

 

 

sorry I missed this PJ - I'll look around for a written tek or pictorial but my friend modded an old PC they got a a garage sale specifically for the purpose of pasteurizing.  He measured/eyeguessed the size of the steam valve on the pc and purchased high temp hose as close to that diameter for a tight fit. Took him a few guesses to get a snug fit.  He then modded up a heavy duty tub - those big black type and sealed a thermometer through the center so he can read the temp and in the side as high on the top he feeds to a drilled inlet from the PC tubing. Puts a rack on the bottom to hold his big bag of manure or straw and goes to town.  

I haven't seen him in a while but I'll try to see if he can send some pics.  Not sure if it would work when there isn't a steam valve of some kind to fit hose/tube to.

Also, have to watch the water in PC doesn't go dry - probably takes a few trial runs and timing to get just right with water level to start and if need to add during the pasteurizing.



#20 PJammer24

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 11:04 AM

Any temperature over 168° will kill the beneficial microbes you encourage to multiply during pasteurization. Over 168 = sterilization. 140-160 is pasteurization, and will cause fire fang (actinomycetes) to proliferate.

I typically set the PID for 160f and have always viewed 180f as the point where everything gets screwed... I have never considered that a temp as low as 168f could screw the pooch... My temps are pretty stable, I just hadn't realized that temps as low as 168f could cause an issue...






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