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New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.


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#41 Tycelium

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 06:05 PM

Any advice on removing sediment? Ran through fine mesh sieve and 2 layers of cheesecloth but the particles are very small and clog easily. 1500 seeds, 12 oz ruby port, 1 oz champagne vinegar, and 1 oz everclear were used. Thanks in advance.

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#42 ElPirana

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 06:38 PM

Any advice on removing sediment? Ran through fine mesh sieve and 2 layers of cheesecloth but the particles are very small and clog easily. 1500 seeds, 12 oz ruby port, 1 oz champagne vinegar, and 1 oz everclear were used. Thanks in advance.


Tregar has suggested the use of cotton balls in a funnel. I’ve used this method now to strain mushroom tea. I can say from experience that coffee filters really don’t work well, they clog easily
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#43 Tycelium

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Posted 09 December 2020 - 07:04 PM


Tregar has suggested the use of cotton balls in a funnel. I’ve used this method now to strain mushroom tea. I can say from experience that coffee filters really don’t work well, they clog easily


Thank you!!!!

Edited by coorsmikey, 10 December 2020 - 09:14 PM.
fixed quote

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#44 Coopdog

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Posted 10 December 2020 - 06:23 PM

Got my book today! Looking forward to reading it. Next up, I still have 20 pages or so left of the book I am wrapped up in now. 


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#45 Tycelium

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Posted 10 December 2020 - 08:57 PM

I was able to strain out the solids but I am left with a little under half of the weight after the first strain. I am concerned about the dosage. Am I supposed to assume that 33 grams of liquid is equivelant to 500 morning glory seeds extracted? I got almost all liquid out of the seeds after extraction and everything has been cold, high alcohol, and low ph. I am excited but I want to get my doses correct. Any tips and/or info is much appreciated especially if compared to previous extractions and measurements.
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#46 Coopdog

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Posted 10 December 2020 - 09:18 PM

From all I have read here, dosage is kind of a guessing game depending on a lot of factors. I would suggest starting light and going from there. Nothing wrong with a gradual ascent!


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#47 Myc

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Posted 11 December 2020 - 01:08 AM

What type of filter material were you using? Just curious.

 

A cotton ball is pretty generous but would be very effective in collecting large solids and viscous materials.

A finer mesh filter - like a coffee filter - will require vacuum filtration.

Just thinking about this out loud - so to speak. I intend to follow the "tek" as described, perform a few experiments, and then post results. Testing the scientific method.

Curious to see your results.


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#48 tregar

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Posted 11 December 2020 - 08:47 AM

1) It seems there are two sides of the coin, praise and criticism of "The immortality key, the Secret History of the Religion with no name" by Brian Mararesku.
 
 
 
 
...among many other reviews when doing a search.
 
2) As far as extraction, gone on this weekend and next week, but will return in week to discuss how this is done, keep in mind when using a plain water acidified extraction, that the longer the seed mush sits in solution, the easier it is for stringy slimy stuff to form which makes it impossible to filter thru any sort of coffee filter, that is why hermes and myself always kept cold acidified water extrations brief, soak of only 10 minutes or so, otherwise stringy slime forms the longer it sits.
 
Cotton ball in a funnel preferred method of filtration (post #26) just as El Pirana states above, see pic of setup on post #40. Hermes tea-bag method given in post #26, my method of filtration using 2 funnels side by side described in post #26. Decantation is when you leave a solution in fridge for hours to days, allowing sediment to fall to bottom of tall 1/2 pint jar, then you decant off layer above sediment, which contains the actives. More on this on post #14 and #15 here: https://mycotopia.ne...8-pharmahuasca/
 
3) will discuss wine extraction next week with pics when back, out of time right now. Used a 400 to 500 seed extract with only 2 to 3 oz of cold sherry wine. 1oz = 30ml. I prefer 1/2 pint tall jar for extraction, and working with only small qty of seeds.

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#49 tregar

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 10:47 AM

I don't know if you remember morninglory seed from long ago? He was on another forum. Here is one of his old classic posts that makes alot of sense:
 
morningloryseed:
Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract is performed and they are thrown away.
 
Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seeds feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.
 
The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports. So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling. Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as eating the whole seeds.
 
The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different ones.
 
Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip. 
 
The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others (up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is (in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.
 
Example page from Merck on agroclavine (found in morning glory seeds):
agroclavine is soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble. 
 
From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32:
"Agroclavine is readily soluble in organic acids, agroclavine is stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water". Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol.
 
The hard data is lacking on whether the alkaloids in the seeds are in the freebase (like morninglory seed above describes) or in the salt form. Alkaloids such as mescaline and dmt are found in the salt form in the plant, and are readily water soluble. However, these half dozen alkaloids from morning glory are found within the tiny rubbery like embryo found within the seed.
 
To be on the safe side, extract into wine, as this will extract the alkaloids should they be in freebase form. This will give you an extract that is no different from "eating the seeds". Morninglory above is right in that the plain water extract is no where near similar to "eating the seeds" or an acidic wine extract (editor preferred). Recall that LSD chemist Todd Skinner in the book "Lysergic" performed a wine wash on ergot discussed in post #32.
 
Plain water also causes the LSH in the seeds to decompose to the mostly inactive and sedating LSA almost immediately unless extracted into acidified water (ph=4) or wine which is already at ph=4. For those who prefer a non-alcoholic extract, use acidified water brought down to ph=4 using a tiny dash of DL tartaric acid (use ph meter from *bay, and don't go below ph=4) or crushed vitamin C, grape fruit juice, squirt of lemon juice added, etc.
 
Please don't eat the seeds! Several teens went to the emergency room in 2019 after eating the seeds. The Shamans and natives never ate the seeds, they added the ground up seeds to drinks containing alcohol as shown in caption below. 
 
Hermes used to say how he had excellent results from the now defunct Martha Stewart brand :biggrin: from K-mart but weak results from burpee seeds, can confirm that burpee seeds were of weak quality, perhaps they are not stored in a temp controlled facility. 
 
Fresh off the vine seeds grown in 3/4 miracle grow to 1/4 cow manure compost (all from garden store, cow manure compost less than two dollar a bag) with some earth and handfull of perlite for drainage mixed in, growing on a fence, as I have grown, seem like they are in a league of their own, almost like a completely different animal, of extremely high quality (see growing instructions post #40 and trip report on post #26 at bottom).  
 
As explained on post #40, alkaloid content can vary from 0.005 to a high of 0.079%, just as Coopdog remarks above about variability, that's why it's always best to not only grow your own, but when picked immediatly vacuum pack and freeze them to preserve the labile LSH, but work with a small qty of seeds to gauge quality. 
 
Around 2 to 3oz of cold sherry wine is plenty for extracting 400 to 500 ground up seeds when using a tall 1/2 pint jar with lid, these come in dozen at *almart for cheap in canner section, first pulverized with a hammer between a paper plate, then ground further in a coffee grinder, filtration thru a cotton ball in a funnel. Cotton-ball filtering combined with fridge decantation will give a clear extract free of nausea. Will go more into this when return next week with pics. 
 
Details of cotton ball stuffed in a funnel filtering:
You should love the cotton ball filtering, it works for filtering out the debris from Ayahuasca, Cactus, or Morning glory seeds, when and if the cotton clogs, you simply replace it with another and continue filtering, may take 2, 3 or more cotton ball chang-ings, but your entheogenic brew will come out super clean and active, your stomach and intestines will thank you--no nausea! Yes, coffee filters are useless. Have dreamed this method of filtering for decades--get's all the nauseating particles out but leaves the water soluble actives in solution. Beats the heck out of useless coffee filters which will not allow anything to flow.
 
To use: just put one cotton ball in a large clean funnel to make it sediment free which reduces or eliminates nausea to the intestines...have two of these funnels with a cotton ball stuffed in them sitting in a large tall jar sitting side by side so that you can pour off liquid from funnel #1 into adjacent "funnel in a jar #2" to continue filtering once the 1st jar's cotton clogs up or slows down the flow too much, continue pouring off the funnel's contents back and forth changing out the cotton when or if it clogs.
 
When you are done with your cotton ball in a funnel filtering, take all your spent cotton and combine it in your hand into a single wad, make a fist and wring out any leftover liquid into a final funnel in a jar with cotton ball stuffed in it, to get every last bit of particle free liquid. You will want to use the larger size black funnels that you can find in your nearest automotive store, buy several of them.

 

Alternate way to filter from Hermes (see his visual MG report on post #26):

 
My favorite way to go about this is to first wash the whole seeds in a bowl with a little water and a very small amount of liquid handsoap. I slosh them around and rub them a bit in the soapy water (not too long--could reduce potency). I then rinse them good with cold water in one of those screen vegetable strainers. This is intended to wash off any fungicide or other adulterants. I then dry the seeds well with paper towels.
 
Then I grind the seeds in coffee grinder to a fairly fine consistency, but not to the point of being powder. The hulls should remain somewhat course, while the lighter colored inner stuff is pretty much powder. I then put this stuff into one or several empty tea bags. Don't overfill one. If the bags are small, use several. Next, put the bag(s) into a full glass of cold distilled water (w/squirt of lemon juice to acidify water beforehand) and use a spoon to press on them and make sure they are well-saturated with water. Let sit for 10 minutes in a cool dark place.
 
Use spoon to squeeze and agitate the bag against side of glass some more to get more stuff out. Don't press too hard or you will break the bag and get seed mush into the water, which is undesirable. Leave for 10 more minutes. Squeeze again. Leave for 10 minutes. Squeeze.
 
Remove bags after squeezing most of the water from them into the glass. You can suck on the bags if you want to get more stuff. I don't generally do this. Discard bags. Drink water.

 

From "The Elixir: an Alchemical Study of the Ergot Mushrooms":
The ancient civilization of Greece centered around the religious ceremonies conducted annually in the Eleusinian temple in Athens. According to Aristotle, the mystery at Eleusis was something experienced rather than something learned. There were two rituals performed at Eleusis, the first was the "Lesser Mystery," in which the participants were given a libation of wine containing ergot & opium, and the "Greater Mystery," during which the initiates were given wine containing ergot, and experienced a collective vision of the Mother Goddess Persephone.

 

This is how I got into growing morning glory, thought would share as I feel it was more a message from the Aztec Shaman, also goes to show the visual power of high dose LSD made from ergot alkaloids, this really happened. For a visual high dose ergot wine trip report reported in the literature, read Krystle Cole's report on post #32. 
 
Over 20 years ago, girlfriend and I both dropped 10 hits each of super old 15 year old decomposed acid given to us by a dear friend, he had stored it in between the pages of a book all that time without using a baggie, when held in front of blacklight, only around 40% of each blotter glowed, rest decomposed. It had a sick feeling for the first 2 hours, but then it worked and skyrocketed us to a higher divine plane, it was very strong.
 
She and I both saw the exact same vision for 20 minutes straight which had formed out of the shadows cast by the fake Christmas tree lights onto the wall--a 20 minute "schooling" by an ancient powerful & spiritually prominent Shaman from Aztec era --- I have never had an experience like that ever again to this day--it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.
 
The Shaman sat on a living throne made of spirit animals (birds, jaguars, otters, pumas, macaws, toucans) that morphed into other animals constantly, to the left and right of him were centaurs (half animal below, half naked female above), the great Pyramid of the Aztec capital behind him, and he showed me the rise and fall of several civilizations throughout time--and what is even more amazing--is that we both saw the exact same vision.
 
The Shaman wore a huge beautiful headdress made of feathers and the detail of the 20 minute animated vision was beyond 4k, and extremely detailed--it was also the vision in which I saw snakevines behind the centaurs, and before the Shaman left us at the end, he motioned to me with his eyes to look to the right of the living room out the window into the patio area where I had an empty garden plot--he was trying to tell me to plant entheogenic plants in the plot--that spring, summer & fall I grew morning glory in that plot on a large wide & tall wooden trellis cemented into the ground. His point in showing me the rise and fall of the different civilizations was that I believe he was trying to tell me that "if humanity is to survive, the only hope is a Spiritual Solution".

Attached Thumbnails

  • double funnel with cotton ball filtration, hammer within folded over plate, coffee grinder.JPG
  • preparation of seeds by Shamans and natives.JPG
  • Ecstatic maenads in Greece mix visionary plants into wine in a wine-mixing bowl in front of a column and mask.JPG
  • Triptolemus is shown as a charioteer or steersman in a chariot that has wings and is propelled by Heimarmene-snakes, with a large cup of psychoactive mixed wine given to him by the goddess Demeter or Persephone..JPG
  • manna.JPG
  • LSH decomposes to ergine (LSA) in plain water, ionic or alkaline conditions or when heated therefore extract into acidic water or wine, 2016 Polish morning glory study, Nowak, Wozniakiewicz, Klepacki, Sowa, Koscielniak.JPG

Edited by tregar, 13 December 2020 - 05:01 PM.

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#50 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 13 December 2020 - 06:34 PM

It's happening...

403 hand counted heavenly blue seeds ground and put to:
1/3 c cabernet, 1 oz whiskey, 2oz lemon juice

See ya on the other side!
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#51 tregar

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Posted 14 December 2020 - 02:02 AM

ItBeBasidia said:

It's happening...
 
403 hand counted heavenly blue seeds ground and put to:
1/3 c cabernet, 1 oz whiskey, 2oz lemon juice
 
See ya on the other side!

 

Post #37 El Pirana said:

The dosage will probably vary quite a bit on whether the seeds are fresh. A few years back I tried several trips, starting around 150 seeds and worked my way up to maybe 500 seeds. I don’t think my seeds were fresh. I would guess 200 would be a good start, or if someone is already comfortable with tripping, then maybe start around 350-400 seeds. Let’s see if anyone has a different opinion....
This is good advice, and is echoed in many a report, see this Erowid morning glory wine trip report here:
 
hxxps://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95057
 
The only problem with the report above was that the seeds were first blend into water, THEN added to wine, this will cause the LSH to decompose to LSA, instead as mentioned previously, immediately add to wine if doing a wine extraction. If adding to water, the water should at least be acidic to avoid LSH decomposition to LSA. 
 
Would recommend 250 to 300 seeds, but no more at first, to gauge response to possible side effects, see here, from my mentor Hermes long ago:
 
QUOTE from hermes (lycaeum March 2003) on morning glory visuals & strength:
Depending on seed quality, you should get some weak to decent effects from 8 grams, like mild reality bending, marked enhancement of aesthetic perception, insights, weak open eye visuals, moderate but subtle closed eye visuals (especially with music). I find that more satisfactory results are achieved with more seeds, like 14 grams or more. This much is needed to enter truly psychedelic territory. I wouldn't recommend this much if you haven't tried lower doses with the same seeds and method, however. LSA can cause significant vasoconstriction, causing restricted blood circulation to extremities. Make sure that your toes don't get numb or tingly on 8 or so grams first. And don't mix with other vasoconstrictives, like ephedrine or caffeine.
 
I usually just measure by Burpee bags. These are 1.8 grams each. I have used anything ranging from 3 to 12 of these. Strangely, the 12 bag trip was relatively weak. They must have been some old seeds. My strongest experience ever with MG seeds was with the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart. I had strong effects, with good open eye visuals, on only 300 seeds! I used a water extraction with some added lemon juice.
 
I had strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are about 32-36 seeds to a gram. The Martha Stewarts are more expensive than the Burpees. They are like $1.30 a bag or something close to that for a 1.2 gram bag. The Burpees are something like $0.88 a bag and each bag has 1.8 grams. That's $2.05 a gram for Martha Stewart seeds and $0.92 a gram for Burpee seeds. It seems to be a trade off.
 
My favorite way to go about this is to first wash the whole seeds in a bowl with a little water and a very small amount of liquid handsoap. I slosh them around and rub them a bit in the soapy water (not too long--could reduce potency). I then rinse them good with cold water in one of those screen vegetable strainers. This is intended to wash off any fungicide or other adulterants. I then dry the seeds well with paper towels. Then I grind the seeds in coffee grinder to a fairly fine consistency, but not to the point of being powder. The hulls should remain somewhat course, while the lighter colored inner stuff is pretty much powder. I then put this stuff into one or several empty tea bags. Don't overfill one. If the bags are small, use several. Next, put the bag(s) into a full glass of cold distilled water and use a spoon to press on them and make sure they are well-saturated with water. Let sit for 10 minutes in a cool dark place. Use spoon to squeeze and agitate the bag against side of glass some more to get more stuff out. Don't press too hard or you will break the bag and get seed mush into the water, which is undesireable. Leave for 10 more minutes. Squeeze again. Leave for 10 minutes. Squeeze. Remove bags after squeezing most of the water from them into the glass. You can suck on the bags if you want to get more stuff. I don't generally do this. Discard bags. Drink water. Get yourself into the mood with some good music and wait for effects. You might want to take a little ginger if you are worried about nausea. Usually I don't get any, but sometimes there is a little, probably partly from pre-trip anticipation anxiety.

 

Here's a whole mess of trip reports from "Deep Knowledge" ---> "the New Vaults" 2006:

Page 2: Lucid and Visual Morning Glory LSA Extracts - Page 2 - Misc. Entheogens - Mycotopia

Page 1: Lucid and Visual Morning Glory LSA Extracts - Misc. Entheogens - Mycotopia


Edited by tregar, 14 December 2020 - 02:28 AM.

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#52 Coopdog

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Posted 14 December 2020 - 06:10 AM

Dammit man I have to go to work! I have things to say, especially in regards to the "Shaman" as I had a similar experience on Mushrooms one time that was so real it could not have been just imagination. More later for sure. Itbebasidia, I can't wait to read your trip report.

 

EDIT: The Shaman/teacher who came to me with the mushrooms seemed more native American. His face was draped in a cape of furs, and he just suddenly appeared in the midst of my fractal world, front and center of my minds eye. He was made up of all the animals, and as he stood there seemingly glaring at me, they took turns coming to the front of his abdomen to look at me, Jaguar, Wolf, Coyote, Rattlesnake, Iguana, churning out of him as if in judgement of me. He told me that others would try to trick me, and he showed me his medicine bag. He said I will know him by his medicine bag as he showed me what was in it, and never to listen to the false teachers. 

 

That memory came to me so strong with the mention of the Aztec Shaman sitting on the throne of animals. I am so very much looking forward to this experience. I feel like a little kid at Christmas time. lol


Edited by Coopdog, 14 December 2020 - 06:41 AM.

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#53 Coopdog

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Posted 14 December 2020 - 07:18 PM

I read the whole first half of the first link. I take it nobody is doing the cooking sherry extraction in this writing? Doing the water extraction sounds like a bad deal all the way around, even if you do get past the ingestion part. One of those P&L statement kinda things that comes up a bit heavy on the loss side. I don't think I will be doing any water extracting with these lol. Looking forward to reading more tomorrow. 

 

BTW, I am 30 pages or so into the Immortality Key book. Enjoyed the forward by Graham Hancock, got a long way to go on the rest. 


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#54 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 06:08 PM

Well I had a wonderful time.

After drinking the liquid, I made a fire and waited about an hour and a half and was feeling a cranky stomach as well as light effects like enhanced senses and giddiness. I went back inside to the container with the strained seed pulp and poured some water in and let it sit for 5 minutes then drank. I then took a pinch of the seed pulp, chewed and put it under my lip as if it was chewing tobacco.

About 30 minutes after that, it hit hard. I was in my bedroom with the lights off listening to music when all of a sudden I felt very light. I looked at my hands and moved them side to side and saw brilliant colored paisley tracers in their wake. That was the first I've experienced tracers. Music was an adventure as well. When I closed my eyes, I saw beautiful organic swirls, lattice like structures, faces, and shapes full of color going with the music. I opened my eyes and they remained if I wanted. I felt a omniscient divine presence the whole time. Every edge and outline of me and the world around me had a vibrant energy flow. My mind body connection was powerful. My mind environment connection just the same.

From onset til back to baseline was about 8 hours. On the come down my ab and glute muscles kept contracting as if they were working themselves out. I had excellent sleep and a nice after glow the next day. It felt as if I'd been optimized. Sorry it took long to get back to the thread, I needed a day to soak it all in.

I will be starting a winter grow of 'flying saucers' and 'Heavenly Blue'.
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#55 Myc

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 07:59 PM

Glad to know you had a good time. Sounds like some cramping issues - that would explain the stomach and (afterward) the legs.

Hard to know where that came from as you also used some of the pulp itself.

I've heard of much more harsh experiences from users who have just chewed the seeds and then held them as a quid - like chewing snuff. The reports all agree that they felt nausea and cramping for about an hour before finally vomiting and then the experience set in much as you've described. No user reported that they would be interested in a second experience due to the lingering effects of discomfort throughout the journey. It sounds like you came out OK despite using some of the non filtered material.

 

So while listening to music were you calm (as in relaxed)? Tense (like with a cup of espresso)?

I'm keenly interested.


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#56 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 08:19 PM

The stomach discomfort was pretty uncomfortable and happened before I decided to do a quid. Thankfully I didn't vomit. It wasn't enough to deter me from doing it again though. That discomfort was well worth the experience!

I had this odd stimulated and sedated at the same time sensation when it started. Depending on the song playing, I'd be very energetic and dancing about for upbeat stuff and I'd lay down with a stony pull for introspective/somber tunes. There was a point I felt light as a feather and I was twirling around moving my hands and body about with a deliberate grace I've never felt before.
I eventually got tired and fell asleep while still tripping which was also a first. With fungi, I can't fall asleep until it's fully done. All in all, I'd say there was an energetic and a relaxed aspect, but more of the journey was in a relaxed state.
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#57 Myc

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 11:59 AM

I eventually got tired and fell asleep while still tripping which was also a first. With fungi, I can't fall asleep until it's fully done. All in all, I'd say there was an energetic and a relaxed aspect, but more of the journey was in a relaxed state.

 

Thank you so much for that careful analysis. Exactly what I was fishing for...........

My measure of a "good" psychadelic is my ability to sleep while still tripping. I prefer not to be wired and riding the journey at the same time - (i.e. unable to sleep or eat when tired or hungry) - and have surrounded myself with cultivars which suit my tastes. Looks like some morning glory vines will make the perfect addition to the patio garden this coming season.

 

I'm also curious about threshold experiences. Maybe this is a candidate for microdosing.

My ultimate plan is to make enough of this to share with friends. I think it would be fun to break out a bottle or two and let everyone at a gathering have a shot glass (or half of one) - to enhance the mood of the event. However, I'm not one of those to expose someone to an "acid test" without their express consent. Knowing more about the effects vs. dosage will be useful.

I also think of keeping a tray of ice-cubes in the freezer for (perhaps) daily or weekly low-dosing.

 

Very grateful for your feedback.
 


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#58 tregar

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 01:04 PM

Thanks for comments Myc. Please forgive the forum tools, it insists on posting my pics on both posts, weird. 


Edited by tregar, 23 December 2020 - 01:32 PM.


#59 tregar

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 01:24 PM

That's amazing that you also saw a Shaman teacher Coopdog, thanks for telling your story! The spirit animals you saw sound identical to the spirit animals the Shaman I saw had with him as well. Cool about the Shaman's medicine bag. 

 

ItBeBasidia, thanks so much for your 403 seed trip report! I believe you used as solution: 1/3 c cabernet, 1 oz whiskey, 2oz lemon juice. Remarkable report!

 

Coopdog said:

Dammit man I have to go to work! I have things to say, especially in regards to the "Shaman" as I had a similar experience on Mushrooms one time that was so real it could not have been just imagination. More later for sure. Itbebasidia, I can't wait to read your trip report.
 
EDIT: The Shaman/teacher who came to me with the mushrooms seemed more native American. His face was draped in a cape of furs, and he just suddenly appeared in the midst of my fractal world, front and center of my minds eye. He was made up of all the animals, and as he stood there seemingly glaring at me, they took turns coming to the front of his abdomen to look at me, Jaguar, Wolf, Coyote, Rattlesnake, Iguana, churning out of him as if in judgement of me. He told me that others would try to trick me, and he showed me his medicine bag. He said I will know him by his medicine bag as he showed me what was in it, and never to listen to the false teachers. 
 
That memory came to me so strong with the mention of the Aztec Shaman sitting on the throne of animals. I am so very much looking forward to this experience. I feel like a little kid at Christmas time. lol

 

ItBeBasidia said:

Well I had a wonderful time.
 
After drinking the liquid, I made a fire and waited about an hour and a half and was feeling a cranky stomach as well as light effects like enhanced senses and giddiness. I went back inside to the container with the strained seed pulp and poured some water in and let it sit for 5 minutes then drank. I then took a pinch of the seed pulp, chewed and put it under my lip as if it was chewing tobacco.
 
About 30 minutes after that, it hit hard. I was in my bedroom with the lights off listening to music when all of a sudden I felt very light. I looked at my hands and moved them side to side and saw brilliant colored paisley tracers in their wake. That was the first I've experienced tracers. Music was an adventure as well. When I closed my eyes, I saw beautiful organic swirls, lattice like structures, faces, and shapes full of color going with the music. I opened my eyes and they remained if I wanted. I felt a omniscient divine presence the whole time. Every edge and outline of me and the world around me had a vibrant energy flow. My mind body connection was powerful. My mind environment connection just the same.
 
From onset til back to baseline was about 8 hours. On the come down my ab and glute muscles kept contracting as if they were working themselves out. I had excellent sleep and a nice after glow the next day. It felt as if I'd been optimized. Sorry it took long to get back to the thread, I needed a day to soak it all in.
 
I will be starting a winter grow of 'flying saucers' and 'Heavenly Blue'.

 

Whatchamacallit (2006):

I have read that using an alcohol high in acetadehyde, like sherry converts the LSA to LSH which is supposed to a better trip, or more potent, or more stable. There would be alcohol and water and acetaldehyde, so it may be the best experience yet. Just let it soak in sherry for a few dayshaking often, maybe longer, if not in a hurry, then filter and drink it. Let us know how that works. I have heard from several respectable people that this works very well. Also keep the bottle away from light (maybe wrap in foil or use dark brown bottle), at all times and heat, etc.

The correct wording would be the wine is creating a "more stable solution of LSH, which is found naturally in the seeds". LSA cannot convert to LSH at the amide nitrogen on top, however, there is definitely adduction going on imho between the high levels of acetaldehyde (10mg per 1 shot glass or 30ml) in Sherry wine and the alkaloids in the seeds at the bottom NH position of the indole ring of the ergolines. See Norman's quote in post #22. See more on this from post #4 with studies linking aldehyde adduction to tryptophan analogues (yes, this includes our seed alkaloids). This leads to in my experience, greatly lowered anxiety, stronger visual trip, much more colorful than normal, neon colors very prominent. Compare the findings with ALD-52 discovered by Albert Hofmann with LSD for example, covered on post #4.

 

As promised, pics showing my normal extraction, no nausea as the cotton ball in a funnel gets out all the nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris, have used the cotton ball in a funnel for decades now, works on Ayahuasca, certain cactus & morning glory seeds for creating a nausea free to the stomach & intestines brew. Post #49 discusses how to use in 3 paragraphs. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would suggest doing this under low light conditions, I personally replace a lamp in room with an LED Red bulb I found at grocery store in hardware section for five dollars when normally doing this. 

 
1 eight grams weighed out on folded over paper plate, then hammered in between plate on concrete with hammer.
 
2. then the hammered mush was further ground in coffee grinder.
 
3. mush sitting in one half pint tall jar. (these jars can be found in canning section of stores)
 
4. 2 oz (60ml) of cold sherry wine added to mush and transferred to fridge for 20 minutes, shook hard every 5 minutes. (Shake hard three times or every 5 minutes during the 20 minute soak)
 
5. after 20 minutes in fridge observe course debris at bottom.
 
6. after 20 minutes in fridge, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel, press on cotton ball using straw when dripping stops to get all remaining light colored wine solution out.
 
7. observe wine solution dripping thru cotton ball, solution is light colored and free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris!
 
8. closeup of 1st cotton ball in funnel after filtration, it took out ALOT of dark colored debris that is nauseating to stomach and intestines.
 
9. closeup of first cotton ball used for filtration, super dirty black at top 1/3rd portion.
 
10. first cotton ball changed out half way thru process, as it clogged, then replaced with a 2nd cotton ball to filter out remaining liquid which was in the funnel.
 
11. The end! 1.5 oz liquid collected from starting 2.0 oz, put back into fridge until use. Heavy nutty flavor, 100 percent free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris. All the actives remain in solution while the debris has all been eliminated. Prepare for a very euphoric and lucid visual trip with deep insights...combines extremely well with other entheogens as well. 
 
12) Wine solution when dabbed on cue tip and touched to paper plate, glows bright blue
 
13) Her, underground house DJ
 
Pics appear to be posted backwards, no matter how I re-list them, 1st photo at very right, then in sequence from right to left. Very bottom photo of screen = step #2 the coffee grinder. 
 
Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace & music.
 

Attached Thumbnails

  • her.PNG
  • solution when dabbed on cue tip and touched to paper plate, glows bright blue.jpg
  • 11. The end! 1.5 oz liquid collected, put back into fridge until use. Heavy nutty flavor, 100 percent free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris..jpg
  • 10. first cotton ball changed out half way thru process, as it clogged, then replaced with a 2nd cotton ball to fiter out remaining liquid which was in the funnel.jpg
  • 9. closeup of first cotton ball used for filtration, super dirty black at top portion.jpg
  • 8. closeup of 1st cotton ball in funnel after filtration, it took out ALOT of debris that is nauseating to stomach and intestines.jpg
  • 7. observe wine solution dropping thru cotton ball, solution is light colored and free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris!.jpg
  • 6. after 20 minutes in fridge, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel, press on cotton ball using straw when dripping stops to get all remaining light colored wine solution out.jpg
  • 5. after 20 minutes in fridge observe course debris at bottom.jpg
  • 4. 2 oz (60ml) of cold sherry wine added to mush and transferred to fridge for 20 minutes, shook hard every 5 minutes.jpg
  • 3. mush sitting in one half pint tall jar.jpg
  • 1 eight grams weighed out on folded over paper plate, then hammered inbetween plate on concrete with hammer.jpg
  • 2. then hammered mush further ground in coffee grinder.jpg

Edited by tregar, 23 December 2020 - 02:45 PM.

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#60 tregar

tregar

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 06:27 PM

Even though in post #59 I discounted the possibility of LSA converting to LSH, on reviewing the literature, I think it could be possible...I have no other way to explain the strong visual & auditory effects & stimulating trip and no sedation. As we all know, LSH was shown in animal studies to be stimulating like LSD, and not sedating. 
 
fastandbulbous (chem wizard from bluelight):
Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).
 
Chemist Peter Webster:
The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be psychoactive actually can never reach the brain, since this compound is a labile adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde.
He is right in that LSH is a labile (unstable) adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde...however, he is wrong in that his information is outdated in that the new Polish morning glory study from 2016 explains that LSH does remain stable indefinitely in acidic solutions (ph=4, same PH sherry wine is at), but decomposes just as Webster states in neutral water, alkaline water, when heated or when processed for study under microwave ionic conditions. 
 
This means LSH can indeed reach the brain intact when it is extracted naturally & properly from the seeds or formed from theoretical "LSA from the seeds + acetaldehyde in sherry wine" under acidic solution such as Sherry wine which contains excess of acetaldehyde at ph=4 already, driving the reaction to the formation of LSH...this all can theoretically happen in sherry wine. 
 
We have even found LSH in the blood and urine samples of two individuals who ingested the seeds way back in 2010, so we know that indeed, LSH (Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) can reach the brain intact. 
 
Red22:
This paper states that "LAH" was identified in blood and/or urine samples in two individuals who ingested the seeds. This is interesting because Peter Webster alleges that LAH will immediately decompose when in the body (Source; Edit -> Find -> hydroxyethylamide (first result)). This paper indicates that that's not true.
 
Klinke HB, Müller IB, Steffenrud S and Dahl-Sørensen R, Two cases of lysergamide intoxication by ingestion of seeds from Hawaiin Baby Woodrose, Forensic Sci Int, 2010, 197(1-3), e1-5 | http://www.sciencedi...379073809004745

 

The best evidence we have is this:
Take a look at the "aldehydes form adducts with tryptophan analogues" paper from 1992 on post #4, I'm not going to repost all the info here, but you can read the explanation on post #4 and read the entire research paper from the National Academy of Science:
 
 
The researchers in study showed aldehydes form adducts at the NH position of the indole over around a 3 hour period, with stirring, or in our case swirling once per hour in fridge for 3 hours. They also produced 100% yield after several hours, and they stated the "lower the PH, the faster the reaction." 
 
dmthead420 on The Shroomery is someone who's obtained good experiences from seeds using extraction methods. When he tried the "LAH" procedure, he stated he would never do it any other way again: http://www.shroomery...776759#6776759 
 
dmthead420 said: 
Seems this does do alot more, its alot more refined, clean, less body high all mind high.. i extracted 700 riveas into 100 ml of lemon juice , 50ml water .. that sat 9hrs in the fridge(water stayed the color of lemon juice but smelled like alkaloids) i filtered and added 100ml of sherry wine and that sat 6hours..

A buddy and i sampled 12ml of this and the effect is way different from just eating the seeds or just a simple water extract..

No body feelings AT ALL, not even the normal body buzz.. just a extreme lsd like head and abstract thoughts, better sense of understanding.... Real soon i am def going to try a large dose ..I Feel GreaT...I will no longer do it any other way.....my friend says the same.
The way dmthead420 extracted reminded me of not only my latest all sherry wine extract, but also my first experience many years ago, when I also extracted into acidic water acidified to ph=4 with dash of DL tartaric acid, then added a shot of sherry wine, swirled it once per hour for 3 hours:
 
1) Late fall harvested seeds (stored in freezer to preserve high LSH potency indefinitely) pre-hammered in-between a folded over paper plate, 2) then ground in coffee grinder...3) then 20 minute extraction using cold spring water pre acidified to ph=4 with dash of DL tartaric acid. Performed occasional shaking and swirling of solution of seed mush kept in a jar in the fridge...4) then decanted & filtered cold solution thru cotton ball in a funnel, replace cotton ball when/if it clogs...continue filtering, use 2 funnels side by side, each funnel sits in a jar with a cotton ball, pour solution back and forth between each funnel changing out the cotton ball in each when or if it clogs...once filtered, then added 1 shot of cold sherry wine to solution for 1-acetaldehyde adduction at the NH group nitrogen of the ergolines, and let filtered solution sit in fridge for 3 hours w/swirling once per hour:
 
Saw geometric patterns on the surface of everything, with closed eyes, colored vectors spun 360 degrees while traveling from left to right across visual plane. Sounds were not only amplified & music heavenly but audio hallucinations were produced, heavy euphoria component & very strong appreciation for beauty. Remember watching Scarlett Johansson interview on a small television and melting into the seat from her beauty amidst all the breath taking geometrics. Tripped hard as hell.
 
The point I'm making is that perhaps it is possible that LSA is reacting with high levels of acetaldehyde in sherry wine (10mg per 30ml or 1 shot glass full) not only at the bottom NH position of the indole on the ergoline LSA, but also at the amide nitrogen H position to form the unstable or labile LSH, which does in fact become stable in low ph, such as that of Sherry wine, which also contains a high percentage of acetaldehyde driving the reaction to LSH formation equilibrium & stability. 
 
Remember LSH is simply LSA + acetaldehyde adduct, acetaldehyde = C2H40, see pic below. Acetaldehyde could theoretically bond to form an adduct at the H position of the amide nitrogen = H + C2H40 = C2H50. 
 
LSA = C16 H17 N3 0
LSH = LSA (C16 H17 N3 0) + acetaldehyde (C2 H4 0) = C18 H21 N3 02
 
Vecktor 2020 (chemist):
Tregar you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.
 
Anyhow, this is all theoretical, so take it with a grain of salt. But the fact that the resulting trip with the sherry wine extraction is stimulating and not sedating indicates to me that perhaps hypothetically all the leftover LSA in the seeds is converting to the stimulating LSH via labile acetaldehyde adduction to LSA, which becomes stable in sherry wine condition which is at required ph=4 with natural excess of acetaldehyde driving reaction to equilibrium stability.
 
This might also help to explain how Norman's question on repost #22 stumbled upon strong trips when using wine (which contains acetaldehyde) as extraction solvent, but did not experience the same strong trips when substituting 12% alcohol and water mix instead.

Attached Thumbnails

  • LSH.JPG

Edited by tregar, 26 December 2020 - 09:58 PM.

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