104 replies to this topic

[Moby]

Thanks for sharing that Nicked! Personally I am not convinced that the clear spores are viable or that they don't get darker with maturity. I do feel that there are a few darker spores though the may be lighter than normal, that get through to actually germinating for the next generation. I do believe that I could also get visuals on immature spores from a normal pigmented mushroom if Santa bring me a new microscope. That's just my belief and not looking to go back and forth on it, but would like to see some evidence that is convincing to myself. I also don't have an issue understanding that leucitic and albino mushrooms are different . I can clearly see the difference. I just have a hard time understanding how we base this what we perceive as colorless spores or that if an Abino produces a few colored spores that it can no longer be and albino. I suppose one easily find a few dark spores to debunk a true albino much easier than testing millions of clear spore for viability in this situation.

 

The written stuff was not mainly directed at you, you see based on some comments that it was necessary to repeatedly talk about the differences.

 

Keep in mind with APE and GWM - I think you are not fully convinced because of these two - damaged dna from GWM and an albino cross (APE) are both not pure albinos, APE is mixed genetic of albino and non albino, GWM (I'll just believe the chemical part, theres no reason to make up such a story and theres also at least to my knowledge no other variety like that) also is not a natural mutation.

Those are both different storys than a naturally occuring albino (thats not been crossed after the albinism was stabilized).

 

APE version 1.0 from sporeworks for example is very unstable.

A mate had from one syringe three different cap colors (white, orange and blue) and a bigass mutation similar to enigma but not like corals

 

 

more like a giant white poop, its very unstable and the non albino part must cause some dark spores.

The albinos also produce ALOT less spores, they are clearly visible, even though transparent (the light reflection still makes them visible on paper or foil, except in water!), there will be aswell undeveloped spores in dark prints but something is genetically different with albinos and I think the very low amount of spores and the undeveloped spores have the same origin.

___

 

I'll leave it like that, I see that you will have to see yourself to change your mind.

It was a pleasure to have this talk, many people just close up and are not willing to actually talk about stuff

[Nicked]

Thanks for sharing that Nicked! Personally I am not convinced that the clear spores are viable or that they don't get darker with maturity. I do feel that there are a few darker spores though the may be lighter than normal, that get through to actually germinating for the next generation. I do believe that I could also get visuals on immature spores from a normal pigmented mushroom if Santa bring me a new microscope. That's just my belief and not looking to go back and forth on it, but would like to see some evidence that is convincing to myself. I also don't have an issue understanding that leucitic and albino mushrooms are different . I can clearly see the difference. I just have a hard time understanding how we base this what we perceive as colorless spores or that if an Abino produces a few colored spores that it can no longer be and albino. I suppose one easily find a few dark spores to debunk a true albino much easier than testing millions of clear spore for viability in this situation.

A pleasure @coorsmikey! Certainly something I love about this forum is the enquiring minds and asking challenging questions and having these sorts of discussions.
I have absolutely no experience with looking at spores under a microscope and have only a few years under my belt delving into the Mycological World. So I don't really have the expertise to make informed comments on the finer details when it comes to differences in spores.
I can however vouch for Dave. He is an absolute wizard and knows his way around growing and crossing mushrooms second to none. He is regularly coming up with some really unique strains from his various crossing experiments and I definitely have a lot of respect for him. I can see the plausibility of spores maturing slowly and only becoming viable after a certain age and visually it's most apparent with a strain he's called Jack frost (TAT x APE). They only produce viable spores after the caps have opened and the gills turned blue (see Pic for reference... Quite beautiful... And not my photo..). Surely by this stage they would drop dark spores if they produced dark spores?...

Another thing to consider is that the Albino mutation is definitely not something that is made for survival (quite evident in all animals that have produced Albinos... They stick out like a sore thumb and more often than not become an easy target...). So if thats the case then it would be plausible to suggest that they're likely not very good at reproducing and would thus produce fewer and slower maturing spores than normal and if the fungi has lost its pigment abilities (the meaning of Albino...) then it would make sense that the spores would be clear too...

[rockyfungus]

On that huge white turd, is there any discernible stipe? Or just pure blob?

Not only do albinos stick out in nature more. They get destroyed from UV exposure due to lack of pigment.

In humans true albinism even messes your vision up. Pigment is responsible for your fine vision/color. There eyes rock back and forth (nystagmus), very photophobic, and poor perception due to neural connections not forming between brain and eye. "demonstrating that a melanin-related agent is crucial for normal development of the visual system"

Why am I sharing this...I'm an ocular nerd and this is where most of my knowledge lies, but it does seem true albinism drastically changes some structural functions.

So I would imagine a true albino mushroom may look more like that turd, with no stipe forming.

 

Edited by rockyfungus, 16 December 2020 - 12:54 PM.

[Moby]

I'm pretty sure the mutation comes from unstable genetic.

APE is a PE cross. Enigma is a mutation that also occured from a PE cross - Tidal wave (B+ x PE) early after the crossing.

 

The blob had no stem at all.

_________________

 

Damn man, the Jack frost looks great!

Puh TATxAPE sounds badass and the gills..

 

Who is that Dave?

_________________

 

From all those caps

 

 

 

 

Thats all I got.

Hope flush two throws some bigger ones that will be harvested later than those

Edited by DickMoby, 16 December 2020 - 04:02 PM.

[Freaky]

Back in 2005 I was able to take pics of PF Albino spore prints - up until this point even PF himself thought they dropped no spores.  I worked with PF Albino from his original culture that was shared with me from TCO.  I know my PF Albino were actually PF Albino - this is why all of these new (excluding APE) albino pheno's and strains interest me.  There is something that has developed through home cultivation over the last 15+ years to perpetuate leucistic and albino traits or mutations or whatever the correct scientific terminology end up being for it.

 

https://mycotopia.ne...-3#entry111473 

 

And here is Workmans post with microscopy images of the PF Albino

 

https://mycotopia.ne...e-5#entry124574

 

 

APE is a known hybrid of PE and PF Albino - that is documented through Workman's past posts. The APE swabs generously shared with me recently were purple/black on the swab - so I am classifying APE as a hybrid leucistic mushroom based on my understanding of what I've read.

 

Though it can be viewed as mutant or having undesirable traits - there is something very appealing to me about the luecistic and albino strains and I hope that they continue to be shared and worked with.

[Moby]

APE is an albino/non albino mixture, with dark spores due to the PE part in the genetic.

There is a newer Ape version ApeR - APE Reverted on mushrooms.com that drops normal spores just like a classic cube, even thick prints.

Maybe you got that one?

 

https://www.mushroom...m-spore-syringe

 

They got wrong info about the origin of APE there tho.

Jake is member here, maybe he can join the thread and tell us something about this newer version that he worked on.

_____

 

I checked both of those threads and just saw that you guys found out about the transparent spores in 2005 or 2006, I think he should have changed his wrong assumtions from the PF website from earlier, there still is the "info" that the early PF was "sterile" non spore dropping, which is wrong and still around up until today.

 

Workman even posted pictures of the immature albino spores.

I really wonder why all that stuff is hidden in the old threads and nobody of the newer growers knows about those things (me included), its really worth to CAREFULLY check the old threads to find some hidden gold info (between alot of assumtions).

 

"I hope that they continue to be shared and worked with."

 

 

you can be sure about that! 

[jrh]

APE is an albino/non albino mixture, with dark spores due to the PE part in the genetic.

There is a newer Ape version ApeR - APE Reverted on mushrooms.com that drops normal spores just like a classic cube, even thick prints.

 

I just got some prints of these from Hawk. They germinated in about 4 days on LME+nutritional yeast agar. Unfortunately, there's hella condensation on top of my petri dishes so I can't see anything. I guess I can try the hot water on top to see if that clears it up. Or I could try to knock it to the sides instead of the top. Not that there's much to see yet. They're still lentil-sized (or smaller) bits of white so far.

[rockyfungus]

So not sure what these guys are. I took the lids off my tupperwares to increase FAE and didn't label the side of the tupperware like normal.

So these are most likely a mix of AA+ and RW.

One dude looks like an APE...

Most of the fruits are tiny tiny, maybe it's just the size of my container?

 

Looks like some tried to revert, turning a bit orange.

Edited by rockyfungus, 18 December 2020 - 07:22 PM.

[Freaky]

Whatever they are they sure are pretty fruits Rocky! Size of the fruits could just come down to sub depth and container size.  

 

 

 

 

APE is an albino/non albino mixture, with dark spores due to the PE part in the genetic.

There is a newer Ape version ApeR - APE Reverted on mushrooms.com that drops normal spores just like a classic cube, even thick prints.

Maybe you got that one?

 

https://www.mushroom...m-spore-syringe

 

They got wrong info about the origin of APE there tho.

Jake is member here, maybe he can join the thread and tell us something about this newer version that he worked on.

_____

 

I checked both of those threads and just saw that you guys found out about the transparent spores in 2005 or 2006, I think he should have changed his wrong assumtions from the PF website from earlier, there still is the "info" that the early PF was "sterile" non spore dropping, which is wrong and still around up until today.

 

Workman even posted pictures of the immature albino spores.

I really wonder why all that stuff is hidden in the old threads and nobody of the newer growers knows about those things (me included), its really worth to CAREFULLY check the old threads to find some hidden gold info (between alot of assumtions).

 

"I hope that they continue to be shared and worked with."

 

 

you can be sure about that! 

 

DickMoby maybe that is what is confusing me a lot on some of the new info I read about the new strains that either leucistic albino crosses/hybrids or mutants - they're referring back to information I learned when PF Albino and APE were both being worked with and spread around.  I almost feel like this AA+ is PF Albino renamed as it is the only one I find resembles PF Albino the closest.  Is there anyone who has any links or history on AA+ and it's origins? I think I'd like to dig around and read up on it. 

Sporeworks still carries APE 1.0 and PF Albino in their catalogue as well as Albino A+ which is different than AA+?   Again confusing to me lol

[rockyfungus]

Is AA+ the same as Avery's Albino???

I thought one of the them was an amazonian or some "South American" cube.

Edited by rockyfungus, 18 December 2020 - 07:23 PM.

[Freaky]

I wonder also - I've read that it is Avery Albino = AA+ and then I see on Sporeworks Albino A+ - I have no idea what the difference is or either origins really.  I'd definitely like to find out though if anyone knows.

 

Workman says Albino A+: Strain Origin: Leucistic mutation of the A strain

[Moby]

They're all different ones.

AA+ is leucistic and like you mentioned a leucistic mutant of A strain.

Averys Albino is not AA+, Averys albino is an actual albino.

AA+ is leucistic, PF Albino is an albino.

 

AA+ and Albino A+ is the same. The name ist just confusing and says albino, even though its actually leucistic.

 

Averys Albino = albino

AA+ (Albino A+) = leucistic

PF Albino = Albino

 

All three different varieties.

 

The american vendors don't ship to germany, the legal situation here is very bitchy, even spores are completely illegal, I'd so get some of these gens lol.

 

Jrh looking forward to see the ApeR!

Edited by DickMoby, 18 December 2020 - 07:46 PM.

[jrh]

Jrh looking forward to see the ApeR!

 

You and me both! If it looks good on agar, I'll start 2 quarts of oat spawn for 2 shoeboxes.

[Freaky]

Thanks Dick Moby - I needed that breakdown on the names!

 

So, do we know the origin of Avery Albino if it's a true albino? We know the origin/history of PF Albino and that it is a mutation of PF's strain of cubes.  Do you know Avery's cube strain that provided that albino mutation? 

[Moby]

Thanks Dick Moby - I needed that breakdown on the names!

 

So, do we know the origin of Avery Albino if it's a true albino? We know the origin/history of PF Albino and that it is a mutation of PF's strain of cubes.  Do you know Avery's cube strain that provided that albino mutation? 

 

I didn't do much research about this variety.

 

"One of the most unique varieties on the market, Avery’s Albino drop completely clear spores. This leaves a lot of people skeptical of spore presence, and opens the door for shady vendors. When it comes to our glass slides and swabs, we scope every single sample, ensuring the presence of spores, and giving you the ease of knowing exactly what you are buying. Originally isolated by the Rare Breed Genetics group, Avery’s Albino came from a MS syringe, and was initially a fluke. The name Avery comes from one of the owners daughters, Avery, and she sure is a beast of a strain which produces some of the best flushes I’ve ever seen."

 

Thats what they put as description on inoculatetheworld

 

https://inoculatethe...cambodian-swab/

 

That all I know so far

[rockyfungus]

Looks like it's a Cambodian that was albino, according to shroomery. Or even the link says cambodian that you posted, just nowhere on the site...

[jrh]

Jrh looking forward to see the ApeR!

 

Currently I have some growth on petri dishes which were inoculated with spores 7 days ago. How long should I wait on the petri dishes. Until the growth is the size of a quarter? Almost fills the dish? Assuming these go well, I'll make a grain master pint from the agar.

 

 

 

Here is a BRF+ cake I inoculated with my first ever, didn't know wth I was doing, spore syringe. Because I put oats in my BRF+ cake, I sterilized it for 2 hours, which caused the cake to compress too much. I believe this is why the growth in the cake looks like this. The cake is also 7 days old. Assuming things go well, this cake is destined for a microtub (1 pint food to go container).

 

[jrh]

ApeR

 

Crappy picture of the petri dish. I'm going to look for my old cameras because my phone just doesn't work very well for these mycelium pics.

 

 

Anyway, I figured I should probably keep waiting, but I want to get this variety in a tub, so I did transfers from the highlighted spots (or at least I tried to grab 2 spots where the growth was thick on the edge), and then cut up the rest and put it in a pint jar of oats.

 

 

This is my first agar to grain. It's difficult keeping those jelly buggers from sticking to the jar. I had a few pieces stuck above the grain line for the longest time.

Edited by jrh, 21 December 2020 - 08:33 AM.

[FunG]

The trick to wedges is slanting the grains by tilting the jar and then dropping in the wedge. That way they dont get stuck ontop.

[jrh]

OMG that's BRILLIANT! (no sarcasm, I really mean it)

Edited by jrh, 21 December 2020 - 09:33 AM.