17 replies to this topic

[Sidestreet]

I've just been hearing about this compound over the last week or so, but it seems like it could be a big deal because of its potential legal status.

 

 

Cannabis is a flower that has grown naturally in the wild for thousands of years. It’s chocked full of chemical constituents–some of which are known as cannabinoids–that mesh with receptors throughout our body, eliciting a spectrum of mental and physical effects. THC or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol is by far the most well-known of these cannabinoids, but certainly isn’t the only powerful chemical compound native to the cannabis flower. Delta-8-THC, one of the four most common cannabinoids, is similar to its psychoactive relative THC, but with several key differences.

https://www.leafly.c...t-is-delta8-thc

 

The gist is that it's psychoactive, yet because of a loophole created by the 2018 Farm Bill may also be legal federally to manufacture and possess if it is derived from hemp, because hemp is excluded from the definition of "marihuana".  Delta-8-THC also doesn't seem to qualify as an analogue.

 

Before I go any further, I should say that this is an untested legal theory at this point. You don't want to become that test case.  I'm not saying you should feel free to order or use Delta-8-THC and I'm definitely not giving you legal advice.  You can read more about the legalities here.

 

Also, according to one vendor of Delta-8-THC, sale and transport are illegal in the states of Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Idaho, Iowa, MIssissippi, Montana, Rhode Island and Utah.

 

Does anyone know about this stuff?  It seems that the loophole will be closed pretty damn quick if it provides a real legal defense, but it would be cool in the meantime if there's a window to purchase for those in states where cannabis is still illegal.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Of course, the Dee Eee Ehh has promulgated a rule that seems to attempt to regain control over the compound, though as an administrative agency it doesn't have the power to overrule federal legislation:

 

https://www.heidiurn...hemp-delta8thc/

 

It looks like the rule led many in the industry to come to the conclusion that D8THC is now illegal, but the legal blogs I'm reading are disagreeing.  This is all pretty recent, taking place in the last few months.

Edited by Sidestreet, 27 December 2020 - 11:31 AM.

[Moonless]

Good morning Sidestreet.

 

I got to try the delta-8 THC the other day. I smoked the hemp flower that was sprayed with concentrate of D-8 THC that I bought from the local vape shop. When I smoked a joint I didn't notice a difference from the real thing tbh.

 

While at the shop they advertised flower and cartridges with D-8 THC.

 

Does anyone know if this appears on a drug test like hemp does?

[TVCasualty]

They sell it near me openly on the shelf (edibles), and it's a real nice high and might become a preferred molecule even if all forms are legal.

 

Guess I should stock up, but there is also a full complement of dispensary offerings generously made available by enterprising road trippers so access isn't going to be a problem whether there's a crackdown or not.

 

Heck, THC is still illegal where I'm at but top-quality buds and concentrates are sometimes cheaper than in legal states thanks to a lack of taxes and regulations. Availability is never an issue, lol.

Edited by TVCasualty, 27 December 2020 - 10:42 AM.

[TVCasualty]

Good morning Sidestreet.

 

I got to try the delta-8 THC the other day. I smoked the hemp flower that was sprayed with concentrate of D-8 THC that I bought from the local vape shop. When I smoked a joint I didn't notice a difference from the real thing tbh.

 

While at the shop they advertised flower and cartridges with D-8 THC.

 

Does anyone know if this appears on a drug test like hemp does?

 

I would assume so since it's just an isomer of THC.

 

Edit: I would have also assumed that the Analogue Act would have proactively prohibited delta-8 THC since the whole point of that Act was to close the loophole of an molecule not being illegal because it's not exactly like one that is even though their effects may be identical.

Edited by TVCasualty, 27 December 2020 - 10:48 AM.

[Sidestreet]

I haven't studied the Analogue Act but here's one cannabis attorney's explanation as to why it doesn't apply in this case:

 

 

Δ8THC FROM HEMP IS NOT A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE UNDER THE FEDERAL ANALOGUE ACT

 

When discussing Δ8THC I am often asked, “What about the Analogue Act?” My response is that Δ8THC from hemp is not a controlled substance under the federal Analogue Act (AA). (21 USC § 813) The AA provides for any chemical that is “substantially similar” to a controlled substance listed in Schedule I or II of the CSA, and which has a “stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system (CNS) that is substantially similar to or greater than” the controlled substance, to be treated as if it were listed in Schedule I when intended for human consumption. There are several reasons that hemp-derived Δ8THC is not a controlled substance under the AA.

 

First, the CSA expressly provides that “tetrahydrocannabinols in hemp” are not controlled substances. (21 USC § 812©(17)) This specificity in the CSA as to THC in hemp overrides any contrary general provisions in the AA. Second, the effect that Δ8THC has on the CNS is not substantially similar to the effects of Δ9THC, a Schedule I controlled substance. Its effects are much less potent. (See, eg, “Delta‐8‐ and delta‐9‐tetrahydrocannabinol; Comparison in man by oral and intravenous administration”, by Leo E. Hollister M.D. and H. K. Gillespie B.A., Volume 14, Issue 3 of Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, 1973, which found that the potency of Δ8THC relative to Δ9THC is two-thirds (2/3).) Third, hemp has been removed from the CSA. As discussed above, hemp-derived Δ8THC meets the legal definition of “hemp” under the Farm Bill. Legally speaking, it is hemp and is not a controlled substance.

 

For these reasons, Δ8THC from hemp is not a controlled substance under the AA.

https://cannabusines...c-legal-or-not/

 

Again, anyone reading should take a look at the prominent disclaimer in that article--this is an untested legal theory at this point.

Edited by Sidestreet, 27 December 2020 - 11:30 AM.

[Sidestreet]

 

Heck, THC is still illegal where I'm at but top-quality buds and concentrates are sometimes cheaper than in legal states thanks to a lack of taxes and regulations.

 

Even in states where it's legal, cannabis businesses aren't allowed to write off any of the usual business expenses other than cost of goods sold.  I'm sure it really drives up the retail price.  Attorney and psychedelic law author Gary Michael Smith has said that it's almost an incentive not to legalize federally due to the additional revenue for the gov.

Edited by Sidestreet, 27 December 2020 - 12:12 PM.

[TVCasualty]

 

 

Heck, THC is still illegal where I'm at but top-quality buds and concentrates are sometimes cheaper than in legal states thanks to a lack of taxes and regulations.

 

Even in states where it's legal, cannabis businesses aren't allowed to write off any of the usual business expenses other than cost of goods sold.  I'm sure it really drives up the retail price.  Attorney and psychedelic law author Gary Michael Smith has said that it's almost an incentive not to legalize federally due to the additional revenue for the gov.

 

 

I don't plan to start buying taxed/retail cannabis products no matter what the legal situation is (with the occasional exception of trying something new not yet available any other way, like some Δ-8 THC edibles to check 'em out and they're not over-taxed like cannabis is yet since cannabis is still illegal around me so there's no tax policy in place for it).

 

My sources have already paid plenty of taxes on all their growing equipment, fertilizers (etc.), electric bills, and gas to drive it here. IMO the point of legalization is NOT to make the government the biggest for-profit cannabis monopoly/cartel.

[Sidestreet]

 

IMO the point of legalization is NOT to make the government the biggest for-profit cannabis monopoly/cartel.

 

I hear you and I definitely understand not wanting to buy retail.  When legalization comes to my state I'll likely be growing my own, but I'd still buy taxed quality product from good local growers.  I'm thinking it'd be like enjoying a Two-Hearted IPA but never touching Budweiser.

 

For me, though, the most important part of legalization is to stop making criminals of plant aficionados.  I'm willing to accept some of the inevitable commercialization in return.

[Sidestreet]

It's a few years old, but here's a High Times article with more info.  It also links to some of the research that's been done.  It all sounds pretty familiar to other cannabis research, showing antiemetic, anti-tumor, and appetite-increasing abilities.

 

 

In 1974, government researchers performed a study on mice to find out if delta-8 harmed the immune system. Instead, what they discovered were the cannabinoid’s cancer-killing abilities. One would think the discovery would be breaking news and more research would get conducted. However, other than a few studies, delta-8 has been kept mostly out of the public eye. It took decades for the government to even admit that delta-8 could kill cancer cells.

 

A 1995 study conducted by Shaare Zedek Hospital, Bikur Holim Hospital and the Hebrew University located in Jerusalem gave children with cancer delta-8 THC. The lead author, Dr. Raphael Mechoulam, was the head of the team that first discovered delta-9 THC. The study authors noted that at the time of the article being published, there had been 480 successful treatments of cancer with delta-8 THC. Additionally, the cannabinoid made participants stop vomiting.

 

Another report by the National Cancer Institute found delta-8 THC, delta-9 THC and CBD all had the ability to stop tumor growth.

 

There have been a couple of U.S. patents filed—more than a decade ago—with instructions on how to get to delta-8 THC.

 

The first is a United States patent with instructions on the conversion of CBD to delta-8 THC from 2004. The second patent, on the anti-emetic uses of delta-8 THC, goes over the active ingredients in the pharmaceutical composition used in research.

https://hightimes.co...ng-delta-8-thc/

 

 

There are a number of recent articles out there too.  It really sounds like D8THC is going to be / is starting to be marketed widely, and then I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there is new legislation explicitly banning it. 

Edited by Sidestreet, 28 December 2020 - 08:03 AM.

[TVCasualty]

Next question: Can dogs detect it?

 

Asking for a friend.

 

[Sidestreet]

That's a ten-thousand dollar question! Maybe helpfully, the pictures I've seen of purified D8THC show it as a nondescript clearish goo unlike other products I've seen.

 

[Sidestreet]

I got to eat a D8 chocolate yesterday.  It was 25 mg and I ate half in the morning and half in the evening around 5:00.  It was a small dose but the high was definitely there (I'm really a lightweight these days) and it was nice and mellow.

[riseabovethought]

I would like to loudly proclaim this stuff is shit.  I got excited because of the interest and just had to get some.  It was chalked up to yet again one more time I threw money out the window, but if I can help one person out there NOT To buy this shit, then my loss will be worth the trouble.  Please no one else make my same mistake and spare yourself the headache.  Actually this stuff almost made me quit because it sucks so bad.  If I wanted a headache, I could have just huffed some glue or some shit.  THats what it feels like.  Whose terrible idea was this?!  Ugh.  

 

Edited by riseabovethought, 23 January 2021 - 12:20 PM.

[TVCasualty]

That's interesting, and not at all what I experienced.

 

Did you smoke/vape it, or consume it as an edible?

[riseabovethought]

Vaped it.  https://www.3chi.com/contact-us/

Im glad I caught you before you wasted any time or money on it.  Plus the headache really bites!  Now I see why we never gave a shit about it before.  Never was worth a shit.  I wonder who the fuck likes this shit?  Im hoping that putting it in edibles might change everything and make it worthwhile, but Im skeptical after that headache.  I'll eat what I have left now that you mention it, just in case, but so far, its a big fat dud.  Glad I could save you the trouble.

[Sidestreet]

I would like to loudly proclaim this stuff is shit.  I got excited because of the interest and just had to get some.  It was chalked up to yet again one more time I threw money out the window, but if I can help one person out there NOT To buy this shit, then my loss will be worth the trouble.  Please no one else make my same mistake and spare yourself the headache.  Actually this stuff almost made me quit because it sucks so bad.  If I wanted a headache, I could have just huffed some glue or some shit.  THats what it feels like.  Whose terrible idea was this?!  Ugh.  

 

Heh heh, OK, tell us how you really feel.

 

This isn't what I experienced either. 

 

One definite downside regardless of anyone's good or bad experience is that anyone buying Delta 8 is at the mercy of whoever manufactures this unregulated substance.  Someone could have totally fucked up the vape product you bought.  Your only protection as a buyer is the good reputation of the people making the stuff. Ultimately, the attraction is the legality and ease-of-access, and there's no way I would bother in a state where cannabis is legal.

 

I am also vape shy in general because of the spate of deaths that were in the news a couple of years ago.

Edited by Sidestreet, 24 January 2021 - 10:52 AM.

[TVCasualty]

Vaped it.  https://www.3chi.com/contact-us/

Im glad I caught you before you wasted any time or money on it.  Plus the headache really bites!  Now I see why we never gave a shit about it before.  Never was worth a shit.  I wonder who the fuck likes this shit?  Im hoping that putting it in edibles might change everything and make it worthwhile, but Im skeptical after that headache.  I'll eat what I have left now that you mention it, just in case, but so far, its a big fat dud.  Glad I could save you the trouble.

 

 

I've already tried it, and I liked it just fine. It was in an edible and I have not smoked or vaped any yet.

 

 

 

 

[riseabovethought]

Well, I plan on emptying out the carts I have left and making some brownies so I'll let you know, but so far, I hate it.