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Pooling Water in grain bags


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#1 EYMAIOS

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 07:13 AM

I am growing in vitro a pound of oat grains using diy oven bag supplied with tyvec air patches.

Inoculated with B+ spores and mycelia is growing strong after 12 days.
Mycelia Growth reaches 80%.

The problem I noticed was little pools of water on the sides of the bags tending to move towards the bottom.

I inverted the bags taking care to keep the air patches away from tyvec in order to concentrate water safe away from the bulk.
Questions:
1, To suck or empty out the extra water under HEPA protection?

2. To break-shake the grains for secong time in order to absorb extra water?

3. To let the inverted sterile water as is?

4. To dunk in chorinated water after completion?

 

I do appreciate your kind advice.

 


 



#2 peacefrog

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 09:29 AM

Do you have a pics?

When did this pool of excess water appear?

There should not be any excess water at all in a properly hydrated grain jar/bag. It could be a bacterial infection, too much water during hydration and/or prep of the grain, to much inoculate was used, etc. but a pic might help us diagnose the issue if you can provide one.
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#3 Jrotten

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 12:23 PM

If the water pooling wasn’t there in the beginning that usually means bacteria is breaking down the uncolonized grain in my experience. I guess that’s not a hard and fast rule, but it’s certainly my experience.
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#4 EYMAIOS

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 12:29 PM

Do you have a pics?

When did this pool of excess water appear?

There should not be any excess water at all in a properly hydrated grain jar/bag. It could be a bacterial infection, too much water during hydration and/or prep of the grain, to much inoculate was used, etc. but a pic might help us diagnose the issue if you can provide one.

Out of despair I have inverted the bag to drain far from the tyvec breather, so I cant mail a pic, but I have another similar bag to watch out, so if recurrent I will promptly send the next picture.

 

I must point out that day before yesterday I saw drying at the bag top.
Then To protect, I followed Hip's instruction to seal the tyvec leaving only a small hole.
In less than 24h the pooling was evident at the sides, but not the bottom.
Now as soon as the water drain down I will send photo.

PS. Please tell me how to attach photos cause I cant find the way.

 



#5 FunG

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 01:27 PM

If you're using the mobile version of the site you need to scroll down to the very bottom of the page and click "full version" tab.

From there you should see another tab called "more reply options" click that

Next "choose files"
Pick your picture and then press "attach this file"

After they're uploaded you'll have a option to "share" just click that and it'll drop in the www for the imagine.
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#6 peacefrog

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 07:57 PM

You shouldn’t have to drain any water from colonizing grain spawn. It sounds you have to too much water in there OR you have a bacterial infection. How did you prep your grain bag?

Fully hydrated grain should be dry on the outside, yet full of water.

Example of what fully hydrated grain should look like:
C7E9452F-5C85-4A82-85DC-6A305CDC8F13.jpeg
D2B93437-15E4-4A68-A429-7E937D41289E.jpeg 4DCDD20C-0BE7-430E-8E3A-1D2770461C74.jpeg

Did yours look similar before you inoculated? How much inoculate did you use and from what source ie spores, LI or LC?

Edited by peacefrog, 01 January 2021 - 07:59 PM.

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#7 coorsmikey

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 09:28 PM

Temp fluctuation, incubation of the said bags in cooler ambient temps can cause evaporation and condensation, then picking them up and looking at them can cause the condensation to start pooling. What hemisphere is the OP in and is there any source of heat being applied to the bags would be what I would ask before assuming bacteria so early on. Need pics preferably in the space that they are colonizing? From the limited info given, I would put my money on the bag are being cooked with a radiant heat source while in cooler air temperature. If I am close then the suggested bacteria infection will be soon to follow as well. How many bursted grain do you see, if you made the sub to wet there will be a lot of buried kernel and clumped grain with a slimy look to it. Do the grains look dry and you have the pooling water on the sides?

 

     How do I upload photos directly to the site?    


Edited by coorsmikey, 01 January 2021 - 09:30 PM.

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#8 EYMAIOS

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 07:38 AM

Υes it was quiet dry originally and it responded fast at the 3cc spore injection.
Actually it was 50% white after 6 days.
It all got worse after I the bag run dry, and I covered the tyvev patch leaving only a small hole to air exchange.
Now that I uncoverd the patch again and inverted the bag the drain water disappears fast.
Allmost back to normal with no humidity condenced on the dry bag, which worries me again for the further in vitro cropping.

Do you think that all the above is normal?



#9 EYMAIOS

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 08:12 AM

Υes it was quiet dry originally and it responded fast at the 3cc spore injection.
Actually it was 50% white after 6 days.
It all got worse after I the bag run dry, and I covered the tyvev patch leaving only a small hole to air exchange.
Now that I uncoverd the patch again and inverted the bag the drain water disappears fast.
Allmost back to normal with no humidity condenced on the dry bag, which worries me again for the further in vitro cropping.

Do you think that all the above is normal?

 



#10 sandman

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 08:37 AM

50% white after 6 days of spore inoculation means it's a contaminated bag throw it away.

 

Spores take 6++ days to even poke their heads and see a speck of a snowflake of white.

 

You have grown white mold because your bags are no good.

 

There is nearly no way to utilize tyvek for a DIY bag filter properly.

 

Polyfil or even cotton gauze maybe but not tyvek, it is too rigid.

 

Better yet just buy some real bags or use jars.


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#11 EYMAIOS

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 10:25 AM

Temp fluctuation, incubation of the said bags in cooler ambient temps can cause evaporation and condensation, then picking them up and looking at them can cause the condensation to start pooling. What hemisphere is the OP in and is there any source of heat being applied to the bags would be what I would ask before assuming bacteria so early on. Need pics preferably in the space that they are colonizing? From the limited info given, I would put my money on the bag are being cooked with a radiant heat source while in cooler air temperature. If I am close then the suggested bacteria infection will be soon to follow as well. How many bursted grain do you see, if you made the sub to wet there will be a lot of buried kernel and clumped grain with a slimy look to it. Do the grains look dry and you have the pooling water on the sides?

 

     How do I upload photos directly to the site?    

Here are three photos of my bags:



#12 EYMAIOS

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 10:42 AM

Finally I managed to learn how to attach photos as shown below.
Today it is day fifteen photos:
The diy bags have airy patches of tyvec glued with a siliconed perimeter that withstood PC easily, and are breathable (mycelia smell)

 

All work was done under HEPA flowhood conditions

 

Temp: 72f most of the time with indirect day light

IMG_1966.jpg

IMG_1967.jpg

IMG_1968.jpg



#13 sandman

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 10:55 AM

well it looks like mostly cubensis mycelium from what I can see.

 

It looks about colonized and really wet and possibly bacterial.

 

Are you planning on spawning it or? 



#14 EYMAIOS

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 10:57 AM

Temp fluctuation, incubation of the said bags in cooler ambient temps can cause evaporation and condensation, then picking them up and looking at them can cause the condensation to start pooling. What hemisphere is the OP in and is there any source of heat being applied to the bags would be what I would ask before assuming bacteria so early on. Need pics preferably in the space that they are colonizing? From the limited info given, I would put my money on the bag are being cooked with a radiant heat source while in cooler air temperature. If I am close then the suggested bacteria infection will be soon to follow as well. How many bursted grain do you see, if you made the sub to wet there will be a lot of buried kernel and clumped grain with a slimy look to it. Do the grains look dry and you have the pooling water on the sides?

 

     How do I upload photos directly to the site?    

Conditions:

Northern Hemisphere Mediterranean climate

Day temps 50-60f outside

Humidity 50-60%

Bags colonizing under my bed over a centrally heated floor,

with an intermidiate 2inch insulation that provides 72f at the bags.
PCing was done on electric heated stove in 60f environment

 



#15 EYMAIOS

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 11:00 AM

well it looks like mostly cubensis mycelium from what I can see.

 

It looks about colonized and really wet and possibly bacterial.

 

Are you planning on spawning it or? 

I just try my first in vitro bag

to see a crop after many years of interuption



#16 coorsmikey

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Posted 02 January 2021 - 12:47 PM

It is normal to see condensation and some minor pooling at that stage. I was under the impression that we were talking about mostly uncolonized grain. The pics help tremendously.

 As you start your next run, consider adding vermiculite to act as a reservoir for water. Fruiting from straight grain is possible but often runs out or water after producing a few mushrooms. Not very good for strong yields.

Also if it were me, I would stand those bags up with some headspace of air right where I plan on fruiting them (not under my bed) and literally not touch them again until harvest time.


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