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Expand mycelium? A lot for a little.


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#41 sandman

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 04:29 PM

Yea it's called mycotopia.net.

 

Takes some digging and diligence.

 

Most commercial growers aren't antsy to spoon feed you trade secrets but some info is there.

 

Best bet is to check youtube there is a couple of commercial edible growers with fantastic in depth hours of videos.

 

A main purpose of this forum is the discussion of ever evolving best teks I thought?

 

Used to be, now some want to pretend there are no bad ideas?

 

You never know, some chucklefucks might get a jolly off telling people bunk information. It may even be in somes best interest for you to fail.

 

Some times we gotta pull their pants down and spank their bare ass for all to see.


Edited by sandman, 12 February 2021 - 04:33 PM.


#42 TVCasualty

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 05:48 PM

Is there some compilation of these practices anywhere? It would be very helpful to link to when advising someone to use them instead of just informing them retroactively each time they are not following them. If not perhaps there should be.

 

 

There should be something like that that could be put together by the OMC the same way professional associations of engineers do it for engineering but our scene is a bit of an unorganized clusterfuck so here we are.

 

 

It's ironic and almost funny how attempts to refer to things that are in common use in other contexts as shorthand means of making a point in this one can result in having to spend 10x as long and using a lot more words than intended to clarify that it wasn't some rigid admonition invoking sacred myco-dogma or whatever it is that some of y'all seem so concerned about.

 

 

How's this instead: Some ways of growing are more reliable than others, and what those are will be a function of one's own unique situation. Sometimes BRF jars will be the "best" way to go, sometimes not. Sometimes you might only have one option thanks to some sort of limitation, which makes it the "best" choice by default. I could go on with many paragraphs of caveats and exceptions and clarifications if that stuff needs detailing, and I guess I also need to mention that what's considered "best" should be expected to evolve over time.

 

 

Is that enough of the tedious contextual clarification needed thanks to my utter failure to use fewer words in attempting to make a simple point? Or is anyone still concerned that I might be trying to dictate to them what to do or how to run their grow rooms (as if anyone could actually do that)?


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#43 pastyoureyes

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 08:38 PM

Is there some compilation of these practices anywhere? It would be very helpful to link to when advising someone to use them instead of just informing them retroactively each time they are not following them. If not perhaps there should be.

 
 
There should be something like that that could be put together by the OMC the same way professional associations of engineers do it for engineering but our scene is a bit of an unorganized clusterfuck so here we are.
 
 
It's ironic and almost funny how attempts to refer to things that are in common use in other contexts as shorthand means of making a point in this one can result in having to spend 10x as long and using a lot more words than intended to clarify that it wasn't some rigid admonition invoking sacred myco-dogma or whatever it is that some of y'all seem so concerned about.
 
 
How's this instead: Some ways of growing are more reliable than others, and what those are will be a function of one's own unique situation. Sometimes BRF jars will be the "best" way to go, sometimes not. Sometimes you might only have one option thanks to some sort of limitation, which makes it the "best" choice by default. I could go on with many paragraphs of caveats and exceptions and clarifications if that stuff needs detailing, and I guess I also need to mention that what's considered "best" should be expected to evolve over time.
 
 
Is that enough of the tedious contextual clarification needed thanks to my utter failure to use fewer words in attempting to make a simple point? Or is anyone still concerned that I might be trying to dictate to them what to do or how to run their grow rooms (as if anyone could actually do that)?

I think you and I are totally coming from the same place here. Why add all the caveats trying to explain a simple tek such as PF?

There's a difference between something being plain bad and something simply not being the absolute best possible way to achieve the results you are after.

I'm totally down to be a part of a discussion about compiling standards for those who wish to follow them.

Yea it's called mycotopia.net.
 
Takes some digging and diligence.
 
Most commercial growers aren't antsy to spoon feed you trade secrets but some info is there.
 
Best bet is to check youtube there is a couple of commercial edible growers with fantastic in depth hours of videos.
 
A main purpose of this forum is the discussion of ever evolving best teks I thought?
 
Used to be, now some want to pretend there are no bad ideas?
 
You never know, some chucklefucks might get a jolly off telling people bunk information. It may even be in somes best interest for you to fail.
 
Some times we gotta pull their pants down and spank their bare ass for all to see.


I thought the ever evolving best teks belonged in the grossly underutilized Myco Lab sub forum.

https://mycotopia.ne...m/222-myco-lab/

Didnt realize the magic forum adhered to such strict standards.

Seems "best practices" are now trade secrets and if you violate them you get spanked?

I'm not pretending there isn't bad advice here. When it crops up someone should be there to give a reasonable explanation of why it's bad advice and why they think so. That's what peer review is about. I thought THAT was what we were about, not flame wars.

Gems like this exist here.

https://mycotopia.ne...mycology hacks

Perhaps they should be scrubbed along with any mention of a still air box since they wouldnt be found in a commercial operation?

#44 Microbe

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 07:15 AM

I think for our sake, 'Best Practices' should be inline with 'Sustainable Production Practices' on any scale rather it be a few PF Cakes or a full blown commercial mushroom farm. One thing is certain, 'Best Practices' can and will change as the technology and science continues to evolve.

Sometimes 'Best Practices' may not always be inline with the commercial or professional procedures that are accepted or prescribed as being correct or most effective or the expert standard. Best practices should be tailored to the individual based on access to resources, environment, skill set, and etc. But i want to be clear, and deviation fron the expert and professional standard, must keep the basis as a foundation. When you try to deviate from the foundation, it becomes entirely anecdotal and must be stated as such if we as a community want to have any credibility because when that's gone, we simply become a wondering tribe of snake oil salesman.

I believe we need to keep an open mind when other members present ideas and or methods that may not be inline with what we, as a community, believe to be the expert standard and again, as long as it can be supported by science, can be replicated over and over again as a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then.
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#45 pastyoureyes

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 08:13 AM

I agree microbe, we have all had to make compromises during our grows at some point due to skill set and equipment limitations.

Tvcasualty perfectly illustrated the point I was trying to make when he wrote

"How's this instead: Some ways of growing are more reliable than others, and what those are will be a function of one's own unique situation. Sometimes BRF jars will be the "best" way to go, sometimes not. Sometimes you might only have one option thanks to some sort of limitation, which makes it the "best" choice by default. I could go on with many paragraphs of caveats and exceptions and clarifications if that stuff needs detailing, and I guess I also need to mention that what's considered "best" should be expected to evolve over time."

Having to say all that when explaining a simple process is unnecessary and makes for a clunky read.

If I were to explain the PF tek to someone i would leave all that out and explain the tek simply without any implication that it is the ideal method.

In the case of multispore to grain some may learn how to prep grains before learning agar or LC in which case I wouldnt discourage them from using what they have available but encourage them to learn those additional skills as the next step on their path to becoming better. Would I be accused of giving bad advice? Maybe. The general consensus seems to be that spores to grain is unacceptable so anytime I have discussed that I feel compelled to mention that it is frowned upon by "the majority" to cover my own ass.
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#46 TVCasualty

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 11:57 AM

If I were to explain the PF tek to someone i would leave all that out and explain the tek simply without any implication that it is the ideal method.
 

 

And then someone else chimes in offering advice that seems to or even overtly does contradict what you just explained, and the contrary advice involves a method that can work sometimes so long as the grower has all the basics of sterile technique dialed in. Both are offered with equal confidence; e.g. "Do this!" vs. "No, do this!"

 

When that happens (and it happens fairly often) which approach should the aspiring grower take for their first grow, and how do they decide?

 

 

 

I've seen various attempts made over the years to address the credibility issue in the context of cultivation advice at grow forums, and it always seems to circle back to what I guess is called "clout" in the world of social media now. It's an informal/unspoken combination of variables like how long someone has been a member, how well-regarded they are by the community, the grow logs and/or teks they've posted, and so on.

 

So in a way the organic crowd-source approach works itself out in the long run I suppose, in lieu of some kind of formal "grower's association" that gets together to establish standards and "best practices" (which would require money and lots of time and wouldn't be wise for an illegal crop, but that will change so it might be good to get ahead of the game).

 

So instead of using the phrase "best practices" (since I'm guessing no one wants to come across it ever again after all this) I'll just tell the new growers "Do this!" and if someone else posts contrary info I'll make my case, swing my clout around, and leave it at that ("Your call now, noob! Good luck if you do it her way, enjoy your harvest if you do it mine!" and I'll add a few emojis for emphasis, depending on what I decide to emphasize).

 

 

Good talk.

 

 

 

Wait, what was this thread about?


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#47 sandman

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 12:03 PM

 

what was this thread about again?

Horny singles in your area 


Edited by sandman, 13 February 2021 - 12:05 PM.

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#48 TVCasualty

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 12:25 PM

 

 

what was this thread about again?

Horny singles in your area 

 

 

Hell yeah!  headbang

 

 

Wait, my area? In that case ...uh, never mind.

 

God DAMN I need to find a new area. :unsure: 


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#49 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 02:24 PM

So I did try squirting the spore solution into my eye, what would you know, turns out it grew two full flush's... but I did lose sight in one eye. Whatever

 

So the jokes on you sandman. 

 

The grow pictures are on that thumb drive in the truck stop. You know which one

 

 

 

 

 


 


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#50 FunG

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 02:27 PM

Commercial mushroom growers use bags, not jars. You can fit more grain in a bag then a individual jar.

I'm guilty of using metal lids but what I'm more guilty of is not replacing them after they rusted which resulted in alot of healthy jars falling to trich which should be underlined in a up to date revision of a old grain tutorial (with proper credit given to the original author)

I dont plan on stepping up my game to go commercial with psilocybe cubensis because that would put me under a provincial (possibly federal) spotlight and the municipal police would be right up FunG's ass (in reality) I've been helping fight to get p.cubensis legalized little by little and the end result is a unstoppable frenzy of devotees that spread the health benefits of them. Works better then growing several hundred kg's, contaminating the local eco system with spores (cause that would happen) and basically landing your ass in jail for production charges.

Small is good, commercial practices are better for edibles and medicinal. The original poster is a home grower wanting to produce abit of cubensis, not take over aNd dominate a fledgling industry so why would all these "best" practices even apply to them?

What kind of ops are you people running, your making me jealous lol

#51 Moby

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 03:34 PM

I couldn't make it through the whole thread but guess I got the most important things said here.

 

While I disagree with FunG on most things I read around the platform, we had some exhausting conversations, the general idea to dilute a spore syringe IMO is ok for people who do only work with spores and no agar or LC and do alot of inocs in for example pf jars.

Its a way to bypass agar work.

Clones then can be cloned directly to fresh pf jars.

 

Not that I do either method of those two but its possible.

 

To go back to the original question "Expand mycelium? A lot for a little"

 

I would straight answer that with biopsy to LC, its the to my knowledge best method to expand a tiny sample of mycelium into a jar of liquid culture that can inoculate a ton of grain.

 

Some guys here have explained how they would start from spore.

Keep in mind that your transfer plates multiply exponetially with every transfer you do.

 

I personally do only one spore plate and transfer that depending on my goal - just to produce some prints, one transfer and then inoc jars or - until the culture shows agressive growth and separate that to a single final plate which then inocs multiple jars that can be fruited in small trays.

By splitting the final plate into lets say 6 trays that are fruited separately, you still have different substrains fruiting and with the transfers made sure they all are agressive colonizers.

IMO to make 3+ plates with the same variety and do transfers on all of them is ALOT of work and time invested into a single variety, wasted energy IMHO.

 

By then cloning from the first flush you already got the second part that adds up to the "agressive colonizer" and thats "fast fruiting".

If you then clone a good cluster on the next generation you will increase your canopy and "add" (in reality you don't add anything, you just sort out all of the not so good strains) another good property to your culture.

 

Theres for everything different ways to go and I personally prefer going this route instead of doing 20+ plates of a single variety with all the transfers and clone plates and 5+ plates that in the end need to be fruited to test them out.

I select some good growth from a single plate and spread that to a final inoculation plate that then will be used to inoculate jars with the different sectors. 


Edited by Moby, 13 February 2021 - 03:34 PM.

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#52 pastyoureyes

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:34 PM

FWIW when I was learning I didn't base my decisions on "clout" but if what the person was saying resonated with me.

If you are going through the trouble of sterilizing water to expand a syringe you might as well go ahead and add a few CCs of karo in there and make an LC. You would only need about 1cc of spore solution to innoculate said LC. Then allow it to grow for a few weeks. You could dilute the rest of the syringe in a jar of sterile water if you want. I don't really see the point though.

#53 pastyoureyes

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:38 PM

...And now I wait for the "spores to LC is bad" comment.

#54 sandman

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:42 PM

spores to lc is super bad 


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#55 pastyoureyes

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:45 PM

Go on.

#56 pastyoureyes

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:46 PM

Prints are dirty etc...
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#57 sandman

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:48 PM

oh yea right there baby


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#58 pastyoureyes

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:49 PM

LOL

#59 pastyoureyes

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:55 PM

We have had this conversation before. All I can say is I'm getting different results. There must be something that you and I do differently either in printing or in LC preparation. I'd be happy to compare processes but I'm sure you have no interest in doing so.

#60 sandman

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 07:03 PM

Yea I'm sure your method of putting spores on LC is much better than my master slants of elite clones being put on.


Edited by sandman, 13 February 2021 - 07:05 PM.





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