Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

RECYCLING FAILED GRAINS BAGS


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 17 January 2021 - 04:34 AM

Many times I face a dilemma:

Bags and jars with grains run dry, or develop some Trich.
The automatic reaction is to garbage, or to add them to compost pit at best.
But in mazority the failed stuff is good grain.

 

Any Ideas about how can someone reuse and recycle them in order to grow mushroom again?
 



#2 coorsmikey

coorsmikey

    Passenger

  • App Administrator
  • 7,562 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 17 January 2021 - 12:12 PM

If it didn't work well the first round, what makes you think the second round would be any better? I feel that your time would be better utilized doing the research so you would not be in the position to have to recycle grain meaning that each bag is successful the first go at it. There is someone here that has recycled grain that never grew anything, contamination or mycelium. I thinking possibly Fahtser but don't hold me to that as it may have been someone else.

 

Also if you are to the skill set to recycle the grain successfully then you're more than capable of producing your own sterilized that should work the first time and without the need to purchase pre made bags. I am assuming the are purchased bags because desire to recycle them whereas after mark up and shipping are pretty darn expensive. Compared to the $0.50 of grain and the $0.89 for the bag it cost to make my own, I have no desire to mess with the recycling. I don't feel that if I have a bag fail that its a waste either, as it feeds the birds or becomes fertilizer in my garden. If I had just forked out $70 for something and it didn't work I would be more inclined to recoup that back somehow.

 

All in all I suppose I am just trying to say that once to have mastered the ability to recycle grain successfully, you probably wouldn't need to recycle as it is much easier to prep grain the first round.


Edited by coorsmikey, 17 January 2021 - 12:21 PM.

  • EYMAIOS and Moby like this

#3 Myc

Myc

    El Jardinero

  • App Administrator
  • 7,478 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 17 January 2021 - 12:26 PM

I've noticed a (seeming) rash of threads lately where the OP is seeking to "recycle" contaminated or wasted substrate so I have a question for the OP:

 

Where did you stumble upon this idea?

We need to stamp-out that article or source of information as quickly as possible if it is a "tek". Even if it's on another forum.

 

In mycology, "recycling" is synonymous with "composting" when it comes to substrate materials.


  • coorsmikey, Baphom3t and Moby like this

#4 Moby

Moby

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 299 posts

Posted 17 January 2021 - 12:50 PM

Agree a 100% with the other guys.

 

I've tried to resterilize contaminated rye bags.

The moisture content was so off after the second run that nothing grew in there.

 

My motivation was just the invested time it took to prep them.

The rye was soaked over night and then got a longer simmer period + a longer dry after the wash prior to filling the bags.

One of the reasons why I switched to millet.

 

Also not a fan of throwing things away that can still be used for something.

 

To open them unsterilized to compost the contaminated corn just spreads the contaminants.

To sterilize them to then compost is even more work and time for just a bit of compost.

 

The used (bought) inoculation source was heavily contaminated and a whole batch went bad, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to resterilize.

Left them for months after the second inoc and nothing happened.

One bag was inoculated with LI and showed a tiny spot of mycelium that stalled.

 

To get the corn to the right hydration and work with clean cultures or syringes just like mikey said will prevent this whole situation.


Edited by Moby, 17 January 2021 - 12:50 PM.

  • EYMAIOS likes this

#5 rockyfungus

rockyfungus

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 663 posts

Posted 17 January 2021 - 01:07 PM

Has anyone tried to recycle non-contaminated substrate?

Stamet claims you could go Lions mane -> Oyster -> compost or Shaggy Caps.

Or for the average hobbyist; reuse cubes and oyster substrate.



#6 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 17 January 2021 - 01:11 PM

If it didn't work well the first round, what makes you think the second round would be any better? I feel that your time would be better utilized doing the research so you would not be in the position to have to recycle grain meaning that each bag is successful the first go at it. There is someone here that has recycled grain that never grew anything, contamination or mycelium. I thinking possibly Fahtser but don't hold me to that as it may have been someone else.

 

Also if you are to the skill set to recycle the grain successfully then you're more than capable of producing your own sterilized that should work the first time and without the need to purchase pre made bags. I am assuming the are purchased bags because desire to recycle them whereas after mark up and shipping are pretty darn expensive. Compared to the $0.50 of grain and the $0.89 for the bag it cost to make my own, I have no desire to mess with the recycling. I don't feel that if I have a bag fail that its a waste either, as it feeds the birds or becomes fertilizer in my garden. If I had just forked out $70 for something and it didn't work I would be more inclined to recoup that back somehow.

 

All in all I suppose I am just trying to say that once to have mastered the ability to recycle grain successfully, you probably wouldn't need to recycle as it is much easier to prep grain the first round.

It was not ready bought, but happened at a diy spawn bag, using an oven bag with silicon glued air port and silicon injection port. Worked many times with success.
See this 1pound oat grain outcome of those bags at the photos below.

 

Problem with this one was the size of a too big airport that dryied my bag which was left over heated floor.
In other ways this bag may
perhaps survive after some rehydrating to start over.

I intend to replace the lost humidity performing a big 20cc LC injection, after PCing again.
The question was purely greenwise economy, and not dollarwise or energywise.

 

Thank you in deed for this kind advise.
At least I got the lesson that airport size matters seriously.

This said I intend to restrict the airports of my left bags using tape to control respiration properly.

IMG_2032.jpg

 

IMG_2028.jpg



#7 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 17 January 2021 - 01:33 PM

I've noticed a (seeming) rash of threads lately where the OP is seeking to "recycle" contaminated or wasted substrate so I have a question for the OP:

 

Where did you stumble upon this idea?

We need to stamp-out that article or source of information as quickly as possible if it is a "tek". Even if it's on another forum.

 

In mycology, "recycling" is synonymous with "composting" when it comes to substrate materials.

Your view point is sound!
I clear out most certainly this post was not introducing a Tec.

It was a pure ecology question as I hate discarding material offered by Mother Earth.
I assure you that I got extremely helpfull knowledge from all repplies I got, making it at last worthy for me and perhaps for others.
I must admitt that as a non english speaker I find it difficult to orient myself at the Mycotopia mentality and I am still adopting.
I thank you for broadening the subject.

 


  • Myc and cujoloki like this

#8 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 17 January 2021 - 01:52 PM

Agree a 100% with the other guys.

 

I've tried to resterilize contaminated rye bags.

The moisture content was so off after the second run that nothing grew in there.

 

My motivation was just the invested time it took to prep them.

The rye was soaked over night and then got a longer simmer period + a longer dry after the wash prior to filling the bags.

One of the reasons why I switched to millet.

 

Also not a fan of throwing things away that can still be used for something.

 

To open them unsterilized to compost the contaminated corn just spreads the contaminants.

To sterilize them to then compost is even more work and time for just a bit of compost.

 

The used (bought) inoculation source was heavily contaminated and a whole batch went bad, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to resterilize.

Left them for months after the second inoc and nothing happened.

One bag was inoculated with LI and showed a tiny spot of mycelium that stalled.

 

To get the corn to the right hydration and work with clean cultures or syringes just like mikey said will prevent this whole situation.

 

Please explain why resterilization is needed to compost Trich since a lot of fertilizers are using it as their main ingredient.

https://homegardensc...-biofertilizer/


  • Myc likes this

#9 Myc

Myc

    El Jardinero

  • App Administrator
  • 7,478 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 17 January 2021 - 02:24 PM

Thanks for the reply. I just found it ironic that this subject has arisen quite often in the past several weeks.

I was only making sure that folks weren't finding some sort of article filled with gross errors and misconceptions which was inspiring them to waste their time exploring the concept.

 

As for re-sterilizing a contaminated substrate:

That comes - as a comment - in Paul Stamet's "The Mushroom Cultivator".  He really doesn't elaborate on the subject and was introducing the idea only as a precautionary statement. The point was to caution against inhaling or ingesting contaminant spores being emitted by a contaminated substrate.

The cultivator can develop their own strategy as to how best to handle or dispose of contaminated substrates.

I tend to get green mold, bread mold, or bacteria if I make a mistake.  I have no problems dumping these on compost or straw outdoors.

Anything pink, pink-ish or red in color............goes straight to the trash. I never un-seal the spawn container - just toss it and be done.

But that's just me.


  • EYMAIOS likes this

#10 Moby

Moby

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 299 posts

Posted 17 January 2021 - 03:37 PM

 

Agree a 100% with the other guys.

 

I've tried to resterilize contaminated rye bags.

The moisture content was so off after the second run that nothing grew in there.

 

My motivation was just the invested time it took to prep them.

The rye was soaked over night and then got a longer simmer period + a longer dry after the wash prior to filling the bags.

One of the reasons why I switched to millet.

 

Also not a fan of throwing things away that can still be used for something.

 

To open them unsterilized to compost the contaminated corn just spreads the contaminants.

To sterilize them to then compost is even more work and time for just a bit of compost.

 

The used (bought) inoculation source was heavily contaminated and a whole batch went bad, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to resterilize.

Left them for months after the second inoc and nothing happened.

One bag was inoculated with LI and showed a tiny spot of mycelium that stalled.

 

To get the corn to the right hydration and work with clean cultures or syringes just like mikey said will prevent this whole situation.

 

Please explain why resterilization is needed to compost Trich since a lot of fertilizers are using it as their main ingredient.

https://homegardensc...-biofertilizer/

 

 

Resterilization is not needed to compost trich.

 

I talked about the sterilization in the context to kill the contaminants before opening the bag, not to prepare it for the composting.

 

I personally would not open a contaminated bag and then bring that stuff inside on me.


  • EYMAIOS and jrh like this

#11 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 18 January 2021 - 05:36 AM

Thanks for the reply. I just found it ironic that this subject has arisen quite often in the past several weeks.

I was only making sure that folks weren't finding some sort of article filled with gross errors and misconceptions which was inspiring them to waste their time exploring the concept.

 

As for re-sterilizing a contaminated substrate:

That comes - as a comment - in Paul Stamet's "The Mushroom Cultivator".  He really doesn't elaborate on the subject and was introducing the idea only as a precautionary statement. The point was to caution against inhaling or ingesting contaminant spores being emitted by a contaminated substrate.

The cultivator can develop their own strategy as to how best to handle or dispose of contaminated substrates.

I tend to get green mold, bread mold, or bacteria if I make a mistake.  I have no problems dumping these on compost or straw outdoors.

Anything pink, pink-ish or red in color............goes straight to the trash. I never un-seal the spawn container - just toss it and be done.

But that's just me.

Thank you indeed for the experiencd advise.



#12 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 18 January 2021 - 05:38 AM

 

 

Agree a 100% with the other guys.

 

I've tried to resterilize contaminated rye bags.

The moisture content was so off after the second run that nothing grew in there.

 

My motivation was just the invested time it took to prep them.

The rye was soaked over night and then got a longer simmer period + a longer dry after the wash prior to filling the bags.

One of the reasons why I switched to millet.

 

Also not a fan of throwing things away that can still be used for something.

 

To open them unsterilized to compost the contaminated corn just spreads the contaminants.

To sterilize them to then compost is even more work and time for just a bit of compost.

 

The used (bought) inoculation source was heavily contaminated and a whole batch went bad, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to resterilize.

Left them for months after the second inoc and nothing happened.

One bag was inoculated with LI and showed a tiny spot of mycelium that stalled.

 

To get the corn to the right hydration and work with clean cultures or syringes just like mikey said will prevent this whole situation.

 

Please explain why resterilization is needed to compost Trich since a lot of fertilizers are using it as their main ingredient.

https://homegardensc...-biofertilizer/

 

 

Resterilization is not needed to compost trich.

 

I talked about the sterilization in the context to kill the contaminants before opening the bag, not to prepare it for the composting.

 

I personally would not open a contaminated bag and then bring that stuff inside on me.

 

Thank for the protective consultation.


  • Moby likes this

#13 FunG

FunG

    certified something

  • Banned Member
  • 1,175 posts

Posted 22 January 2021 - 06:34 AM

Back in the day when I was still really new to the hobby I tryed salvaging some rye grain from jars that had developed trich.

It was a waste of time....I wanted to cutt back on my expenditures but it's not the way to do it. WBS is affordability and you'll never have to try and save used grain again.

Leave the expensive spawn alone until you've mastered wbs (should not take you long, everything's easy as pie to prep and sterilize)

Maybe move away from bags for the time being too.
  • EYMAIOS likes this

#14 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 24 January 2021 - 03:49 AM

Back in the day when I was still really new to the hobby I tryed salvaging some rye grain from jars that had developed trich.

It was a waste of time....I wanted to cutt back on my expenditures but it's not the way to do it. WBS is affordability and you'll never have to try and save used grain again.

Leave the expensive spawn alone until you've mastered wbs (should not take you long, everything's easy as pie to prep and sterilize)

Maybe move away from bags for the time being too.

 

Funny!
My 1/2 pound DIY plain oat spawn bags are flying!
Without any trace of Verm.
Straight spawn bags grow fast at temp 22C/72F and go straight dunking to double casing, producing 22gr cracker dry min at first flush.

 

Min attendance and care!
Imagine what will happen if I will use wbs and poceed to monotubes...



#15 FunG

FunG

    certified something

  • Banned Member
  • 1,175 posts

Posted 24 January 2021 - 04:59 AM

Excuse my ignorance but what does DIY stand for?

And are oats cheaper then wbs?


I didnt mean to come off as doubting the method you're using or your experience.
  • coorsmikey and EYMAIOS like this

#16 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 24 January 2021 - 07:05 AM

Excuse my ignorance but what does DIY stand for?

And are oats cheaper then wbs?


I didnt mean to come off as doubting the method you're using or your experience.

My friend!
As I am the perfect ignoramus amateur, you have every reason to doubt my methods.
I used to grow fifteen years ago for microdosing my cluster headackes.

I was cured and left it all, and forgot all, so that now that headaches returned I came back learning anything from scratch- zero-nada.
The only thing that remained is my HEPA flowhood that is handy now again.

The DIU oven bags is a necessity since I cannot find any empty spawn bags in my country due to covid delays.

So I improvised with whatever availlable.

Agricaltural oats cost nothing here,  but wbs is unknown in my small Island, so I have to do a travel to get it.

That was all for my peculiar behaviour...lol...
 



#17 Stencill86

Stencill86

    Mycotopiate

  • Black VIP
  • 291 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 24 January 2021 - 08:52 AM

Excuse my ignorance but what does DIY stand for?

And are oats cheaper then wbs?


I didnt mean to come off as doubting the method you're using or your experience.



The DIY is for do it yourself. I don’t think oats will be cheaper than wbs, but probably fairly close if you buy bulk at a feed store. How do I make my font as big as his? Lol

Edited by Stencill86, 24 January 2021 - 08:53 AM.


#18 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 24 January 2021 - 09:56 AM

 

Excuse my ignorance but what does DIY stand for?

And are oats cheaper then wbs?


I didnt mean to come off as doubting the method you're using or your experience.



The DIY is for do it yourself. I don’t think oats will be cheaper than wbs, but probably fairly close if you buy bulk at a feed store. How do I make my font as big as his? Lol

 

Incredible as it may seem...  Whole Grain Oats is 50cents a kilo where I live...Lol...



#19 FunG

FunG

    certified something

  • Banned Member
  • 1,175 posts

Posted 24 January 2021 - 10:48 AM

Excuse my ignorance but what does DIY stand for?

And are oats cheaper then wbs?


I didnt mean to come off as doubting the method you're using or your experience.


The DIY is for do it yourself. I don’t think oats will be cheaper than wbs, but probably fairly close if you buy bulk at a feed store. How do I make my font as big as his? Lol

Oh, duh! On my behalf lol

Thanks for clarifying that for me stence, my brain Is only operating at half capacity the past few days.

I'm not to sure how to change fonts, I think you can do it in the full version of the site.

#20 EYMAIOS

EYMAIOS

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 138 posts

Posted 25 January 2021 - 07:23 AM

 

 

Excuse my ignorance but what does DIY stand for?

And are oats cheaper then wbs?


I didnt mean to come off as doubting the method you're using or your experience.


The DIY is for do it yourself. I don’t think oats will be cheaper than wbs, but probably fairly close if you buy bulk at a feed store. How do I make my font as big as his? Lol

Oh, duh! On my behalf lol

Thanks for clarifying that for me stence, my brain Is only operating at half capacity the past few days.

I'm not to sure how to change fonts, I think you can do it in the full version of the site.

 

You can do it at the basic (as now) by changing font and size before you start writing.

I use 18 size dew to my age (77) ...of course I feel I' m in high school...


  • cujoloki likes this




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!