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PF Tek BRF cakes - nutritional additives?


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#1 SlipperyJack

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:07 PM

Hi all,

 

I am still an uber noob... this will be my third PF Tek grow.

I will be putting my jars together this week.

I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions regarding some additives to the standard recipe?

In my second grow, I tried some worm poo in some of my jars... not really convinced that it was helpful at all.

 

Any suggestions?

I have read about gypsum, lime, and phosphate being beneficial.

I work at a garden centre, and we haven't been able to find gypsum for our shelves for ages.

Due to the lockdown, I am basically limited to what I can buy at my garden centre, or at a grocery store.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks so much!

 



#2 jrh

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:39 PM

Here's a link to Hippie3's BRF supercake formula

 

https://mycotopia.ne...ula/#entry96887



#3 HrVanker

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 12:20 AM

If you are going to try anything different in PF cake, be sure to use a PC. I've had success using ground WBS in lieu of BRF. I felt that it fruited better than the BRF but I can't say for certain.

My honest feeling is that you can use almost anything in a PF cake, as long as you get the moisture right and have a PC. You could do manure, grain, straw, etc.

It's definitely worth experimentation if you're satisfied with the PF style of growing. But maybe try grain -> coir in a mono or dub tub for your next grow.
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#4 FunG

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 06:22 AM

Before jam packing your cake with nutrients take into consideration that when a substrate has been to "enriched" with additives it takes the mycelium alot longer to colonize.

I'd just stick with the standard pf cake. If you want to add nutrients to them then spawn them to aged horse manure.
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#5 jrh

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 07:21 AM

Before jam packing your cake with nutrients take into consideration that when a substrate has been to "enriched" with additives it takes the mycelium alot longer to colonize.

 

This would explain some half pints I have where the mycelium creeps along millimeter by millimeter. Also I think for some reason these cakes got more compacted during PC than expected, like I can see where the cake "slumps" away from the glass. Maybe it's the coconut flour... I've read that baking with coconut flour requires more water because it just absorbs the stuff.



#6 HrVanker

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 12:35 PM

Before jam packing your cake with nutrients take into consideration that when a substrate has been to "enriched" with additives it takes the mycelium alot longer to colonize.

I'd just stick with the standard pf cake. If you want to add nutrients to them then spawn them to aged horse manure.

And whats to be said for grain colonization times? Grain is virtually 100% fungus food.

#7 hyphaenation

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 12:40 PM

 

If you want to add nutrients to them then spawn them to aged horse manure.

You can add horse manure to BRF ... 

Like master WaylitJim showed many times with great success!

 

 

1- Measure and prepare your substrateShred 10 cups of horse manure very finely and soak in water overnite. I like to add a half cup of bleach and hydrated lime to the water. The next day pour thru a collander and squeeze the manure out by hand. Set the manure aside, and remember it will not be pasteurized.Add 10 cups of vermiculite to a large bowl and stir in 2 cups of brown rice flour. Moisten the vermiculite and brown rice flour to field capacity using regular or distilled water.
Combine the BRF/Verm with the horse manure and mix it up really well. You want to evenly distribute the brown rice flour.

From his seminal thread on pans:
https://mycotopia.ne...s-pan-cyan-tek/
 

post-4254-138184905541_thumb.jpg



 


Edited by hyphaenation, 22 January 2021 - 12:46 PM.

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#8 FunG

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 04:52 PM

You can add just about anything thats cellulose to cakes... I use to love experimenting with additives for pf cakes.

The best one is ground corn cob but good luck grinding it down from pellets to powder.

#9 SlipperyJack

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 05:54 PM

Before jam packing your cake with nutrients take into consideration that when a substrate has been to "enriched" with additives it takes the mycelium alot longer to colonize.

I'd just stick with the standard pf cake. If you want to add nutrients to them then spawn them to aged horse manure.

Hmm, interesting.

I wonder why?  Any idea?

 

I have decided that this time I am just going to do the standard recipe... nothing fancy.

This is my 3rd PFtek grow.

I think for my next one, I might move on to the next level... mono tub, dub tub?  Don't know what any of those mean... I will research later.



#10 FunG

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 01:49 AM

It takes the mycelium longer to digest its food source when there is to much sugars and starches.

Mycelium is after all a digestive track I think I recall it being said to be very similar to a animals, correct me if I've misunderstood that analyst.

Ever try working a heavy physical labour job after eating a slice of pizza and poutine? I'm sure you would find yourself greatly slowed down while the food was being processed. Well, the same thing goes for fungi.

Oh and a monotub is a tote with holes cutt/drilled into them on all sides. It's a very simple fruiting chamber.

A dubtub is a tub with a 2nd tub placed ontop of it to create a dome.

Both work excellent for p.cubensis

Then theres tier greenhouses and Martha's but those typically are used for fruiting more exotic mushrooms like pan cyans since the environmental conditions are much more controlled with those designs. I'd call them advanced fruiting chambers.

Edited by FunG, 23 January 2021 - 01:54 AM.


#11 HrVanker

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 02:11 AM

It takes the mycelium longer to digest its food source when there is to much sugars and starches.

Mycelium is after all a digestive track I think I recall it being said to be very similar to a animals, correct me if I've misunderstood that analyst.

Ever try working a heavy physical labour job after eating a slice of pizza and poutine? I'm sure you would find yourself greatly slowed down while the food was being processed. Well, the same thing goes for fungi.

In your experience, how long does it take for 1qt of grain to colonize? It's almost 4x the volume and much more nutritionally dense than a PF cake. Does it take 4 or 5 times as long to colonize?



#12 FunG

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 02:31 AM

Grain spawn doesnt contain the amount of sugars and starches as a enriched cake does.

A good example is liquid cultures, you only want 4% sugar. Any higher and its dentermental to developing mycelium, it will still grow, just very slowly.

Another example I just thought of is agar.
If the agar is to enriched spores take longer to germinate or live cultures crawl at half the speed as a properly constructed mixture.

Have you never noticed this? I do believe my explanation about mycelium being a digestive track would best explain why it slows when it's over burdened.

Edited by FunG, 23 January 2021 - 02:36 AM.


#13 HrVanker

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 02:35 PM

Grain spawn doesnt contain the amount of sugars and starches as a enriched cake does.

A good example is liquid cultures, you only want 4% sugar. Any higher and its dentermental to developing mycelium, it will still grow, just very slowly.

Another example I just thought of is agar.
If the agar is to enriched spores take longer to germinate or live cultures crawl at half the speed as a properly constructed mixture.

Have you never noticed this? I do believe my explanation about mycelium being a digestive track would best explain why it slows when it's over burdened.

I was referring to regular PF cakes and grain jars, not enriched cakes. Both grain spawn and BRF are starch based nutrition (I don't think anybody mentioned adding sugars) for the mycelium. So if mycelium is slow on nutritionally dense materials, grain jars should take upwards of 4wks to colonize regardless of inoculation method, because grain is basically pure fungi nutrition. And we know that does not happen under normal conditions.

 

I haven't played around too much with nutrition density in agar. But I did make a chunky WBS agar which I'm certain is more nutritionally dense than my other agar recipes. Here is a T2 transfer on it: 

20210121_1435521.jpg 20210121_1435001.jpg

I have another culture (different strain) on the same agar that has a very similar look going.



#14 FunG

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 02:50 PM

Sorry, my misunderstanding.

I agree, that the average for a qt/liter of grains to be fully colonized and consolidated is exactly that "4 weeks" given optimum temperatures of incubation (72-78f)

Although at temperatures higher then 80f I've noticed that a jar of grain is usually complete in 3weeks.

What I have to disagree with is the time it takes for a jar to be finished given a large amount of inoculent used (I use 10ccs) of spore solution and I've documented a ton of jars completing in under 3weeks given temps are below 80.

Also take into consideration g2g transfers, if you use 3-4 full spoonfuls to each jar and distribute it well enough you can complete a jar in as little as 14 days.

When I was in my prime that was my best speed/time frame for completing a set of jars.

#15 hyphaenation

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 03:03 PM

With BRF slurry you can  be colonized in counted in days not weeks. Also I have found GLC to be faster then G2G and as a bonus you are not mixing two ages of grain together (the newer one added to the older original one can lead to contams eventually).

 


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