39 replies to this topic

[Chips101]

Anyone out there have any advice growing mycelium in places with very low humidity? I am just getting my toe wet testing the waters, haha and my brf jars have seemingly stalled. I have no signs of infection and I feel like my brf sub was field capacity. The question I have; is every field capacity the same? or should it be adjusted if humidity levels are extremely dry or wet? Will that have a bearing on it completing its growth? I have 2 jars with solid patches that are healthy (1quarter sized the other fifty cent size) I have four air exchange  holes about 1 mm each covered with micropore tape the other two jars have 4 spots where the inoculations where made and started to show growth 3 or 4 days in then nothing. And I 1 jiffypop jar I used to spawn a shoebox today which is where I expected to be with all five. On a side note I inoculated 6 more jars with jiffypop a few days ago since in my case, it was clearly superior.
The only thing I can say for sure is my average temps are 79.6 and my average humidity is 15%. I'm 15 days in. Also what to do with what I have. I have no problem waiting but if it's not advisable ok then what? Is rehydrating a option ?
The pics are from day 7

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[rockyfungus]

You are a bit drier then I am, but I live in a super arid area. I've never had issues with colonizing grain or BRF cakes. It's more bulk subs drying out.

I'd advise you to maybe consider loosening your jar lids a squeak. Sometimes they stall from lack of gas-exchange. Can't tell what the hell your micropore is doing, but might need to remove some of that too (someone correct me if I'm incorrect).
If they are @ 30% colonized, consider giving them a shake. (I don't think shaking does much...I always leave one jar un-shaked out of a batch and they all colonize close enough)

Edited by rockyfungus, 03 February 2021 - 12:33 AM.

[jrh]

As someone (TV) once informed me, you may be suffocating your brf cakes. You shouldn't need tape on top to cover the holes -- that's what the dry verm barrier is for. It's also good to have the lids flipped so the gasket side is up and the ring a little loose which allows for more air exchange.

 

You can also take your jars into the bathroom with you when you take a shower and that will add a little humidity. Or put them all into a tub and add humidity to the tub (modified tub or one with the lid flipped so you still get air exchange) via damp paper towels or something.

[TVCasualty]

Low humidity isn't a factor when incubating BRF jars or grain spawn. Not usually, that is. If they stall for some other reason (see below) and sit around for a lot longer than they otherwise would then it might become an issue.

 

There's a chance that they might be getting dried out if they're too close to a heat source they can "see" (you don't want there to be a direct line of sight between a heat source and your jars or bins). Radiant heat drives the moisture out much faster than it would normally evaporate, and the total lack of condensation on your jars suggests that this might be what's happening instead of or in addition to a lack of gas exchange.

 

If they are not getting any gas exchange at all then that would definitely cause them to stall like jrh mentioned. So it's possible there are two issues (lack of gas exchange and drying out due to radiant heat). Also, 79+ degrees is a bit too warm. Try to keep them at 75, 76 max (for both incubating and fruiting).

 

The growth in your popcorn jar is gorgeous, by the way.

 

A shake would help them finish up quicker, assuming the stalling problem can be fixed. Sometimes a jar that looks great will contaminate after a shake, but this is not caused by the shake (the contam was already in there, just not detectable yet) and if that happens just think of it as sparing you the time, energy, and effort that would otherwise have been wasted if you'd used it to spawn a bulk sub.

 

I always shake up my grain spawn the night before spawning it to bulk both to reveal any hidden contams and to give it a head start in recovering from getting all torn apart.

[Jrotten]

If my grain is a touch dry because of something like leaving it hanging to dry and the wind decided to blow all day I sometimes use my FC as an incubator which is both heated and actively humidified. Species and hydration dependent I have seen big improvement. I have 6 jars of pans doing this right now. If something is already wet it doesn’t help at all and usually kills it.

**BIG NOTE** I’ve never grown a BRF jar and have no clue if the humidity would penetrate the verm layer.

Edited by Jrotten, 05 February 2021 - 04:13 PM.

[Chips101]

Following up on my progress my grain jar was the only one the finished two are still stalled so I used the rest of the spores in grain.
The grain jar was spawned to earthworm castings , coir , vermiculite in a shoebox tote. I'm four days in to a misting/ fanning routine and a 12/12 light schedule. Again my sub is beginning to look dried out so I have removed the other box and placed it in a fc i had. I would love some input on this and i have some pics that were taken a few hrs ago.

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[Chips101]

The first two pics are my popcorn 1/2 pint jar spawned to bulk. The others are maz and jmf.

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[FunG]

You need alot more popcorn spawn chips101

Well, atleast enough to go at a 1:1 ratio popcorn/bulk.

Although your container does look to be doing good I wouldn't expect much of a yield from a half pint of popcorn spawn, maybe 7-10g's or less....

If you use a 1:1ratio the bulk will colonize quicker and moisture loss won't be a issue although I dont think it's a issue now....the substrate normally shrinks up once it begins flushing. If its doing it becomes then like tvcasualty said, it's to close to a heat source.

Oh and your pf cakes, if you have a dry verm layer you can remove the micropore tape and unscrew the lid. Pf cakes require a ton of gas exchange because of the substrates density. Back when I used pf cakes I'd leave the lid off, use a dry verm layer and then use a tinfoil lid. Thats how I prevented mine from stalling, theres others that told me to do it that way..it worked...solved the stalling issue that is.

Edited by FunG, 16 February 2021 - 03:28 AM.

[TVCasualty]

Yield is proportional to the quantity of available nutrients.

 

Add more food, get a higher yield.

 

Well, maybe.

 

The trade-off is that grain (any grain) is much more susceptible to contamination than bulk subs. So more grain = higher chance of contamination (which generally means no yield at all). But it also means faster colonization, so it's an attractive option in that respect since speed is an important variable (we never beat contamination, we only outrun it for a little while).

 

There's also the time and energy inputs of prepping and pressure cooking grain vs. pasteurizing bulks. Most people have or can cobble together much larger pasteurization capacity than pressure cooker capacity, so it's usually easier to fill trays faster with pasteurized bulk substrate than sterilized grain.

 

And every stage of mushroom growing is trickier in a residential setting than in a real, dedicated lab/clean room that no one also lives in the next room to, so we have to find our own particular sweet spot in terms of spawn ratios. The best way to do that is to do a bunch of grows, make slight variations with a few test trays each time, and take notes.

[sandman]

There is absolutely no need for a 1:1 bulk:spawn ratio. Most people do more like 3:1 or 4:1 or even more is acceptable.

 

Sure a little faster colonization with more spawn but what's a few days when you can do twice as much? Up to you I guess. Most people want to stretch it instead of twitching out over a few days.

Edited by sandman, 16 February 2021 - 10:38 PM.

[Chips101]

Does the spawn ratio still hold true if your using a manure based sub? Or is this not done with grain inoculated with spores? Is the contamination factor to high to spawn in manure and coir ? I feel horribly lost, the learning curve is mf'er.


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[sandman]

Don't feel lost looks like you are doing great! 

 

There is no hard and fast rule on how much spawn to use. I just wanted to make sure you didn't let fung let you think you messed up because you only used a little spawn.

Edited by sandman, 17 February 2021 - 08:12 AM.

[pastyoureyes]

Does the spawn ratio still hold true if your using a manure based sub? Or is this not done with grain inoculated with spores? Is the contamination factor to high to spawn in manure and coir ? I feel horribly lost, the learning curve is mf'er.
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The same ratios apply whether you innoculate with spores or LC or agar wedges and no matter the ingredients of your substrate. I use a 1:2 ratio of spawn (colonized grain) to substrate with great success I will probably soon switch to 1:4 because honestly it feels like a waste to be using that much grain when I could be stretching it further like sandman said. 1:1 seems a bit ludicrous but if you have trouble with lower ratios I guess it could help.

[jrh]

To me, the pic of your tub looks great, so I think you're doing several things right. :)

[FunG]

The reason I used a 1:1 ratio when spawning with popcorn is do to its size. You dont get near as many inoculation points when spawning to bulk as you would with rye or wbs.

Wbs you can safely spawn at a 1:4 ratio but I still choose to go just about at a 1:1 ratio out of personal preference, my ideaology is that the more nutrients available the bigger and better the flush or atleast prolongs the life of the project tub by allowing 4-5 decent flushes. That's my reasoning beyond just wanting to get the substrate colonized as quickly as possible. While ensuring enough nutrients are available for a massive pay out.

Why spawn 2 jars of wbs to a entire brick of coir and make a monotub like that? It would be counter productive to the time involved as well lead to, to many f'ing bins to monitor.

I like things abit risky by putting my eggs in several baskets rather then several dozen.

[Chips101]

I'm still unclear about...no organic material? ie. Coir & vermiculite or coir, vermiculite and manure ( in my case castings) will that not reinforce the smaller newly established mycelium and make up for the lack of grain. I guess I thought we used grain as it is the safer alternative to using manure right out the gate? I understand it won't colonize a tote as quickly with my 1/2 pint. but that's not my concern.

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[Chips101]

Also if I wanted to do a g2g transfer what are the ratios ? And what's the down side beside the added colonization time? Say 1/2 pint to 3/4 gallon of more sterile corn? What kind of time am I really looking at ? To add.

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[jrh]

There are no ratios for g2g. It's not something you really need to measure for repeatability. Just shake/break up your grain spawn, transfer anywhere from a spoon full to however much comes out in a light shake, put the lid on the receiving jar, repeat for all the jars, tighten all the lids, then shake the hell out of all the receiving jars, put on the shelf, and wait. How much spawn I use really depends on how much spawn I have (for me it's usually 1/2 a pint jar), how many jars I'm transferring to (for me it's up to 5 qt jars), and whether I want to do anything with my leftover spawn, like a micro tub.

 

Just make sure you leave enough room to shake, and after you've transferred and closed everything up again, shake the hell out of the receiving jars.

[sandman]

G2G is often done at 1:10 thru 1:20 or so ratios and takes about 8-20 days.

 

Please avoid letting funG confuse you, you are doing great and seem to have a fine understanding.

Edited by sandman, 19 February 2021 - 09:40 AM.

[jrh]

BTW, you had knots 3 days ago... Do you have pins yet.