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Nice mycelium, few fruiting bodies


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#1 goldendaze

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Posted 04 February 2021 - 10:34 PM

Hi all, would appreciate any guidance as I'm a new grower.

 

I grew some nice Golden Teachers from a kit, but then wanted to propagate some myself.  So here's what I did.

 
I used a GT spore syringe to grow a liquid culture (honey and water, sterilized in pressure cooker).  This seemed to work well, I had nice clouds of mycelium in there.
 
I used the LC to inoculate some popcorn (which I soaked, boiled, and sterilized in a pressure cooker); this also seemed to work well, as the corn seemed saturated with cottony mycelium after about 18 days.
 
Then I pasteurized some manure (from the garden supply, so it was already composted, I guess), let it cool, mixed in the corn, in a plastic tub, about 12"by8" with a 3" deep layer of substrate.
 
This is where things get less successful.  I've done the above process 3 times.  First time I got some good mycelial growth on the substrate, but it never really was saturated.  It did produce mushrooms, but not a lot (but they do seem quite powerful).  About 300g (wet) in two flushes.
 
Second tub is still producing, about 200g so far, but the mushrooms seem to grow slowly, much more slowly than I experienced with the kit.  Again, the mycelium doesn't seem to have saturated the substrate.
 
Third tub has a very dense mycelium cover, and I've been keeping it between 65 and 75F, and giving it about 8 hours of bright light per day.  No mushrooms yet (it's been about 10 days now), but I have high hopes for this one.  Here's the third tub:
tub3.jpg
 
Having browsed the forums a bit I find some possibilities:
manure was not organic and treated with fungicide?  I don't think so, and I think the mycelium wouldn't grow in that case
Maybe the substrate isn't well hydrated?  There is condensation inside the enclosure, but the substrate does seem maybe a bit dry.  I've spritzed it a bit with distilled water (though maybe one shouldn't do that?)
Or maybe I'm just impatient.
 
Thanks in advance for any help, this is a great community and I've enjoyed reading a lot of posts.
 
GD
 

 



#2 sandman

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 01:45 PM

Stop making liquid cultures with a spore syringe. 

 

Just use your spore syringes to shoot grain jars first, and then you can expand those (when and if they colonize and look healthy) via grain to grain transfer or shooting water in the colonized  jar and sucking the water up..

 

LC gets dirty really easy not a good idea to use syringes to start them, LC is best started with a piece of clean agar from a petri dish so you can visually verify it is clean and good.

 

What is that wire going into the middle of your substrate? Temp probe? Not really necesarry just keep your room at 15-23c. The more steady the better.

 

Maybe your tubs aren't fruiting because the conditions in the tub are not ideal. Could be many things. Latent bacteria in the mycelium tagging along. Who knows.


Edited by sandman, 10 February 2021 - 01:58 PM.

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#3 goldendaze

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 02:22 PM

Thanks for the tips.  Yes, that's a temp probe.  I've been keeping the substrate in that range, but not constant- I could improve that.  I am getting little mushrooms popping up around the edges, so maybe I just need to be more patient.  I'm also wondering if I should dunk the whole substrate at this point.

GD



#4 Microbe

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 03:04 PM

Thanks for the tips. Yes, that's a temp probe. I've been keeping the substrate in that range, but not constant- I could improve that. I am getting little mushrooms popping up around the edges, so maybe I just need to be more patient. I'm also wondering if I should dunk the whole substrate at this point.
GD

I was going to ask the same thing as sandman about the wire/probe. There is no need for that but leave it there for now.

Those subs look pretty good to me. You can tell that the moisture content and humidity arr good by looking at the mycelium on top. It should slightly glisten with tiny water droplets and as long as your maintaining condensation on your tub walls, you know your RH is good unless your ambient air, tub walls, and air inside the tub are all the exact same temperature, then you wouldn't any condensation amd that is highly unlikely without being in a extremely controlled environment.

I think you need to wait it out. I want to echo what sandman said about LC's, spore syringes are not ideal to start them. I use a agar plug to inoculate mine when i make them. My buddy uses a simpler method and might be a little safer, he fills a jar with water and sterilizes it, along with a syringe and a sharp, then he attaches the sharp to the syringe and after flame sterilizing, he draws sterile water in to the syringe, pokes the agar surface of a CLEAN colonized plate, then injects the water in to the LC. I think he calls it the biopsy method. Its good method if you are wanting to draw and inject through ships which. I just rather open my jar lid toss a agar plug in there but i also work in front of a flow hood.

#5 ChocolateStarfish

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 03:24 PM

Yeah you say youre keeping them in between 65 and 75F , you want to stay above 70F with them if you want optimal growth, best temps are 73-78 from what I have read, and from my experience with cubensis. Growing them in high to mid 60s is possible, but they will grow a good bit slower than normal, but supposedly they will come out more potent, according to some people. 

My advice would be to stabilize your temps a little more, maybe get some more airflow in there(are you using an air pump or fanning enough?), and provide more air exchange with some polyfilled holes. Also try using a casing as they help a decent bit, even though they aren't mandatory with cubensis, they help create a microclimate and help retain moisture, and help you get a more even pin-set.

I am sure it'll catch up, sometimes, depending on the genetics and strain, cubensis can vary a good bit in the time it takes to pin, though poor fruiting conditions can also prevent pinning, such as rapid and drastic temperature fluctuation, high CO2 levels and lack of oxygen, and low humidity. Just make sure all of those things are good, and wait around, and you'll get fruit, unless it contaminates.


Edited by ChocolateStarfish, 11 February 2021 - 03:24 PM.


#6 goldendaze

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 12:47 AM

Thanks all for the feedback.  Most of what I've done is from the "Psilocybin Bible", Mandrake and Haze, and I've done a lot of reading on the forums here.  I haven't used agar yet, but one day I'll do that.

 

I think maybe my problem has been fresh air exchange.  I wasn't even aware of that need when I put this together.  I just have some holes through the tub walls covered with Tyvek.  I have been opening the tub daily since I took it out of the dark and saw that it appeared fully colonized.  But I haven't been systematically fanning it to get fresh air in there.  I was reluctant to open it too much to avoid contamination.  The tub is in the basement, about 65F, and there is condensation on the inside walls and some waterdrops on the surface, so it sounds like that's OK.

 

But speaking of contamination, I've been pretty cavalier about it after the substrate gets to be well colonized.  I've opened the tubs up to look many times.  And I've had some mushroom production in all of the tubs; none got so contaminated as to kill the mushrooms.  But is there danger (to me, not to the mushrooms) here?  In tub #2 (the photo above was tub #3) I still have mushrooms popping up around the periphery, but the ones in the middle are tiny and dark (I'm not gonna eat these!) But when I look at them under a microscope, it looks like they're covered with mycelium, not some green mold or something.  Here's a picture (that's a ball-point pen tip for scale)

runty_mushy.jpg

So I just wonder what might have gone wrong with these guys, and if a little bit of that stuff would hurt somebody.

Also interested in potency, my experience suggests a pretty wide range, but that's maybe a subject for another post (or likely I'll find lots of discussion in the forums if I keep looking).

 

Thanks again!

 

GD

 

 

 


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#7 jrh

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 08:56 AM

Did you just mist those? If not, the sliminess has me wondering if that might be bacterial blotch. It sounds like it's caused by mushrooms remaining wet too long. This is just me guessing based on things I've looked at, though.

 

As for air exchange, some people just put the tub lid on loosely or with air gaps and leave it at that. Some people cut 6 2" holes in the tub and block with micropore tape or polyfill. This design has 2 holes on each long side down near the substrate and 1 hole on each short side up near the top but not so high that all your humidity leaks out. I believe the theory is that living mycelium generates its own heat which rises, pulling fresh air in through the holes near the sub. This air then escapes out the holes near the top. This allows for continuous evaporation from the sub surface, which is a pinning trigger. The goal is to "dial in" the tub by using polyfill or micropore tape so that the fresh air exchange and gaseous exchange is enough for good tub health but not so much that you dry out your substrate.

 

Here's a design for a "minimally modified" tub that I find interesting.

https://www.shroomer...rt/1/vc/1/nt/33

 

I'm also a newbie. I'm currently growing 3 shoeboxes, 1 tub, and a few assorted other containers. I'm at a point where 5 or 6 times a day I take a container down off the shelf, shine a flashlight on the surface of the substrate to gauge whether I should mist or not, mist if needed, then fan for 30 seconds or so before returning the container to its spot on the shelf and moving on to the next one. It's time consuming, but I don't yet know another way of doing it. Plus, I'm deliberately fanning frequently to try to get pins from my hyphal knots.

 

Best of luck to you, and hopefully more experienced folk can give you more or better guidance.



#8 goldendaze

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Posted 15 February 2021 - 12:22 PM

Hi jrh,

I hadn't recently misted that little mushroom but it may have died and rotted due having been gotten too wet by frequent misting.  It certainly was dead and rotting.  

The first time I grew some mushrooms I used a kit which came with an aquarium pump with a 1/4" tube on the output, the tube having a little hepa filter inside.  This seems like a simple, cheap, and repeatable way to go, so I've plumbed this into my setup now.  It seems clear that I had the wrong idea about ventilation, that you could just put a couple holes in and assume that would work.

I gather from reading these forums that the most common contaminant is "trich" which is the fungus trichoderma (I think).  Also bacteria of various sorts.  I also don't think that ingesting a little bit of any of this stuff is dangerous, any more than eating old leftovers would be.  Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for the feedback

 

GD


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#9 sandman

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Posted 15 February 2021 - 12:35 PM

It looks like bacterial blotch and that makes sense considering how you said the tub has been treated.

 

If you keep the fruits wet too long the bacteria will bloom.

 

It's generally harmless to eat but some people are very sensitive or allergic to some bacteria. If you dehydrate it at 150f+ then it should neutralize any badies making it safer to eat.

 

I'd ditch tyvek in favor of something like polyfil for any vents. Tyvek doesnt let much fresh air exchange happen, only some minor gas exchange.



#10 goldendaze

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 01:38 AM

Fruits are popping up, just around the perimeter.  Kind of mal-formed, but pretty stout.  I wonder why just around the edges?

 

tub3_fruiting.jpg

 



#11 Saphroziac

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 02:31 AM

I went full tilt into doing LCs with a spore syringe and got burned by it for months. Just do Spore Syringe, and if you are committed buy a Laminar Flowhood and do Agar to Grain.



#12 rockyfungus

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 08:27 AM

Fruits are popping up, just around the perimeter.  Kind of mal-formed, but pretty stout.  I wonder why just around the edges?

Side pins, best micro-climate is where the sub hit's the walls, especially when not using a liner. As substrate pulls away from walls you get more humidity below/on walls, leading to mushrooms everywhere but where you want 'em.

 

https://mycotopia.ne...ins-everywhere/



#13 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 12:23 PM

Fruits are popping up, just around the perimeter.  Kind of mal-formed, but pretty stout.  I wonder why just around the edges?

 

attachicon.giftub3_fruiting.jpg

 

 

My guess would be radiant heat from the light bulb drying out the surface.

 

There is no need for a light source inside a bin even if it runs totally cool, which none do.


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#14 goldendaze

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 12:47 PM

Thanks for the feedback- that makes sense to me, the top surface is drying out due to the radiant heat from the bulb (it's an LED bulb, but it still gets warm), so the moist parts are just the edges where the condensed water drips down.  I removed the bulb, gave the whole substrate a dunk, maybe next flush will be better.






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