High dose Caapi = dream-like visionary with closed eyes
Posted 20 February 2021 - 07:55 PM
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Posted 20 February 2021 - 08:22 PM
It doesnt really fit the topic so if you want i could message you?
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Posted 21 February 2021 - 08:35 AM
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Posted 21 February 2021 - 12:22 PM
P.S. Honestly, no sides here when kept in the realm mentioned on post #1. Sleep is great the same night, although I will not dream the same night, and sometimes wake up an hour or two earlier than normal.
With open eyes, everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day.
"With closed eyes" is covered in first post, although I forgot to mention that all of the closed eye visions begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, and yes, this is with Caapi alone, no admixture. These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed.
Posted 21 February 2021 - 02:50 PM
May i msg you some more detailed questions?
- tregar likes this
Posted 21 February 2021 - 04:29 PM
Yes, feel free to message me. Funny you should mention that DarkNchildlike, here are the writings of 69ron and Sacahambi you refer to:
Ayahuasca is Banisteriopsis caapi. It contains mostly harmine, thh & only tiny amounts of harmaline. B. caapi itself contains no DMT and can be used as is to produce visionary states that are like mental day dreams which lack true visual content. Often admixtures are used to increase the visual content of the ayahuasca dreams. Most admixture plants contain DMT.
Harmine, tetrahydroharmine & tiny bit of harmaline used alone, can produce a mild dreamy psychedelic experience in which daydreams or lucid dreams can be experienced if the user chooses to do so. These dreams from harmine alone are vague and lack visual content, but usually have story lines and can be quite complex just like a real dream. Harmine allows one to go in and out of dream consciousness at will. It takes some practice to learn how to enter a lucid dream with harmine alone. Harmine won’t make you enter a lucid dream. You have to do it yourself by allowing your mind to drift off into a lucid dream.
DMT used alone, produces an intense visual experience, often very chaotic and fast moving, and quite amazing to watch. The visions of DMT alone usually lack meaningful content. The DMT visions are often just constantly morphine colors and shapes. Most of it makes absolutely no sense. Rarely will the visuals present to you a full blown dream with people, places, a story line, etc. But this does sometimes happen. But usually you just get a bunch of bazaar visions that are difficult to understand.
When combined, as in ayahuasca, the harmine, tetrahydroharmine & tiny amount of harmaline brings a dreamy quality to the DMT experience that makes it more like one is experiencing an actual dream, not just a bunch of fancy colors. With the two together, you have the visuals of DMT, plus the dream content of harmine. Harmine is the boss here in this combination if used in ayahuasca proportions where harmine is not just used as an MAOI but is used specifically to allow dream consciousness to be entered by the user. DMT is just an additive used to increase the visual portion of the harmala induced dreams.
Using harmine, thh & tiny amount of harmaline in very low doses, just as an MAOI, is not the same as using properly made ayahuasca. If harmine is used in low doses just for it’s MAOI effects, the trip lacks dream content and is just a bunch of bazaar DMT visual effects. This is not ayahuasca-like, it’s just orally activated DMT. That’s not the same. Its true that some ayahuasca is prepared this way, but such ayahuasca is considered inferior by most natives. With ayahuasca, the DMT is just an additive, not the main course. This is why ayahausca made with only caapi is still called ayahuasca and considered nearly as powerful as ayahuasca made with additive plants containing DMT.
This is something a lot of people don’t get. Ayahuasca is not simple orally activated DMT. It is the dream consciousness effects of harmine that are at play in ayahuasca. In order to experience lucid dreams from harmine without DMT, you need to practice a lot. But once you know how to do it, you don’t need DMT added to it anymore, unless you want the extra visual depth that DMT adds to the dreams.
So, “Dmt Or Ayahuasca?”, well that question is a personal question. Some people prefer DMT-less ayahuasca. Some people prefer just orally activated DMT. Some people prefer ayahuasca with a side order of DMT. Some people prefer the truly bazaar effects of smoked DMT alone.
My personal opinion is that DMT alone is FUN and can be quite frightening. It’s like a roller coaster ride and I like roller coasters. But don’t expect a deep meaningful life changing experience from it. Its pure visual FUN and nothing more. If I want a more meaningful experience I’d use an oral ayahuasca extract, or a smoked Yopo extract (not as effective as ayahuasca because Yopo is low on harmala-like alkaloids).
Authentic ayahuasca, high in harmine & tetrahydroharmine and a tiny bit of harmaline, and low on DMT, is like entering a full blown 3D dream with dream characters, storylines, etc. This can be a life changing experience. It’s more like sitting in a theater for several hours absorbing a story that’s meaningful because its about you. You leave with memories of places, things, people, etc., and possibly a new view on life.
From Gayle Highpine, "Unraveling the Mystery of the Origin of Ayahuasca":
In the western world, Ayahuasca acquired a new definition: It was now, by definition, the combination of Banisteriopsis caapi and a DMT-containing plant. Ayahuasca became, by definition, “orally active DMT.” The first anthropologist to adopt the new definition seems to have been Luis Eduardo Luna in 1984. Luna spent time with Terence McKenna, absorbing his perspective, before beginning his fieldwork. Since then, anthropologists have increasingly adopted this definition and filtered their observations through it. The preeminence of the Ayahuasca vine in the indigenous Amazonian world became the elephant in the living room of Ayahuasca studies, with a tacit agreement to pretend it doesn’t exist.
The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book. The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light
Ayahuasca vine is not visionary in the same way as DMT. The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority”.
Listening to the Vine
While I was living in the village, someone began the process of shamanic apprenticeship. There was a series of ceremonies with brews of special strength for that purpose; brews with enormous quantities of vine. About two to three pounds of fresh vine per person was used (about 25 to 35 times the amount needed for MAOI inhibition). Those were powerful experiences indeed.
He would learn to navigate the strongest of brews with clear focus, and be undistracted by any amount of DMT fireworks.
Edited by tregar, 21 February 2021 - 04:55 PM.
Posted 21 February 2021 - 05:49 PM
So right now ive got some dmt freebase and ive got 100gm of shredded b caapi. I also have some ground rue but i wanna extract the rue first. Whata the best way to do that do you know?
And if I were to try to ingest freebase and shredded caapi tea how should i go about it?
Sorry this is off topic i probably should have messaged you!
Posted 22 February 2021 - 09:25 AM
shredded caapi no telling where it is at.
Edited by tregar, 22 February 2021 - 04:22 PM.
Posted 26 February 2021 - 10:45 AM
I’m no purist by any means but I can’t recommend extracted DMT for ayahuasca. Weird jangly incomplete trip.
Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.
Edited by tregar, 26 February 2021 - 05:38 PM.
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Posted 26 February 2021 - 01:22 PM
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Posted 26 February 2021 - 05:42 PM
Thanks ElPirana. Believe it or not, but Hippie3 and I used to talk about Ayahuasca quite a bit before he passed away. There were many here on the forum that talked about it, incredible discussions.
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Posted 28 February 2021 - 12:59 PM
P.S. don't ever take benadryl if you consume caapi, it's really not necessary. CEV Visions are very prominent without it. Antihistamines are contraindicated. Antihistamines can have interactions with even RIMA's and SRI's, causing serotonin syndrome.
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