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Why do we present this low spiritual level?


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#1 EYMAIOS

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 02:00 PM

,

This observation may sound high flying, but for many years now I wonder:
Why do we present this low spiritual level?

(myself not excluded)
.

Considering the profound impact of the Psychedelic Apocalyptic Experience in our lives, how come we do not grow our essence with the esoteric messages entrusted to us?

.

Shamanic history through the Globe is a noble revelation of wisdom.

.

Beyond growing myco knowledge... where is our wisdom?

 


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#2 Baphom3t

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 02:44 PM

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.
Some wake up. Some stay asleep. Some are asleep and think they are awake and some are awake and act asleep.
On a spiritual level, you rise and fall as you see fit. We are made in the image of, so we control our growth or decline.
Wisdom is within.
I don't understand what you mean by saying, "Why do we present this low spiritual level."
Would you care to elaborate more?


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#3 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 03:01 PM

Well my theory is thus.

We are born with free will. If you wish to advance spiritually and try to learn how to travel in spiritual realms or speak to your spirit guides and or partake of visionary substances to help to those ends you can. Its all possible but you have to really want it and try very hard and pass all of thr tests quests and challenges. The first tests are almost always many fear tests that teach you to stop reacting with fear based reactions and begin responding instead because the spiritual realm isnt even physical we are programed on this dimension to flee or fight. It serves us well here but not there. Also if you want to experience spiritual dimensions you have to want it for the betterment of someone else. You cant really get anywhere if you are trying to see the holy of holies just cuz its shiny.

Another thing is that because of this free will aspect unless you are driven to seek it out you will never have proof of it it is only the kind of proof that a single person can obtain and its of the experiential kind. You cant share it with anyone but you can learn from it and grow enormously in one lifetime others will notice your change and that you are inherently spiritual because you cant be the same once you see death isnt real.

Most people will never know of this aspect of the hidden inner dimensions and it reflects in thr spiritual growth of the world and its not ignorance.

We have been programmed to look thr other way and abort any idea as fanciful childish notions before the idea is even conceived and this is how we are controlled.

If the whole planet knew and experienced their immortal vital bodies everything would collapse because no one would fear death and would immediately drop everything to help the less fortunate essentially killing capitalism.
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#4 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 03:04 PM

Ppl are not interested. Until thy become interested nothing will change. Thats their choice tho all we can do is try hard as we can to have spiritual mystical experiences pass our individualized tests and promote knowledge and growth.

Just remember truely awakened beings are usually murdered or inprisoned or forced to drink poison so its not very often a highly realised soul steps up. This makes growtg nearly impossible.

I fear science will have to validate and accept the holy spirits or we will have to remain in semi hiding and secret teachers.
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#5 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 04:04 PM

By the way, just because you grow mushrooms or eat mushrooms doesnt make you spiritual. It just doesnt trabslate that way or every college frat house would be on the order of the priestess' of Delphi Greece.

Ive said this before and people may or may not agree with it.

Taking mushrooms and other psychadelics can open up the hidden realms that are always around us and give us a hint at what is always there. Psychadelics literally in latin means what is hidden now revealed and soul or mind so I translate it to hidden aspect of life revealed.

People can use mushrooms all they want but if they dont use one of the paths to enlightenment either by way of the mystic or the priest ( the difference of these two things is a mystic has hand on applications with the spiritual world through meditation astral projection dream time or tantra and the priest carries out many ceremonies and gets to know the truth of the spiritual world through research and study both paths can be used by one person but ppl usually lean one way or the other heavier) than you will never actually surpass just having a fun time taking mushrooms or learning a bit about yourself and some more esoteric inclinations.

You have to really want more just taking mushrooms isnt going to give you any super special knowledge or sidhis/ abilities like past life knowledge, astral projection/ astral sight/ scrying abilitues, or psychic abilities . also paychic abilities do not equal spiritual knowledge or know how not that you said it does just saying. Its kind of the same thing.
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#6 Coopdog

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 04:29 PM

^^^^^^^^ {Applause} Darknchildlike those were some very well spoken truths right there. The sacraments don't really change anything, unless you fight your way out of the muck with every fiber of your being to be what you know you can and never stop striving for better. That freedom of choice... that's the sticking point that keeps most of us mired in the mud looking yearningly up the mountain. 


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#7 TVCasualty

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 04:30 PM

How do we know what level we're at? Or what level someone else is at?

 

Assuming we're at "low" level seems to imply an awareness of the full range of what's possible, or at least an awareness of the existence of higher levels than we're at.

 

We seem to assume that some people are much more advanced in spiritual practices and awareness than we are because they present certain behaviors or can express themselves in a way that seems beyond wherever we're at, though that can also be a function of being intentionally vague or ambiguous so as to sound like what the unenlightened tend to assume the enlightened sound like.


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#8 EYMAIOS

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 04:30 PM

.

Baphom3t,

Why are we not at the proper height responding to the Sacred gifts entrusted in our hands.

.

Elaborating I refer to many views present (or missing) in our community:

.

1. Attitude towards one another in the pursuit of a common noble spiritual attainment.

We are left far behind...

This Attitude is meant free, not specified, not restricted and predefined, but existent and in accordance to each one's psyche, and capacity. This Attitude is now allmost absent!

.

2. Language charged with meaning, and not language recycling empty social stereotypes and values.

.

3. Vision in terms of a life guiding compass.

Whether we recognize it or not, we are "De Facto" mystics dealing with powers entrusted in our unworthy hands by our Great Mother Nature.

We are mystics betraying our Holy inheritance!

This is a call to Arms to regain our esoteric lost position on a Troubled Planet!
This community may offer far more than Politicians or social workers.

This community can offer deep insight in Peace and Love for Humanity.

We have forgotten our purpose playing, instead of deepening in our Holy Search!
.
But in order to attempt this Lunatic Nobility, we first must bend, and listen to our hearts in a bone-breaking cincerity.

.

I call every Sacred Brother to withstand his Duty...
 


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#9 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 04:54 PM

Thanks coopdog! Ive read some things youve written through years and love reading your insights, my friend. :)

TV has a good point. Thats why its so important to have the drive and need and want to advance because we are dealing with the non physical world of spirits and spiritual growth where there is no way to measure such things except by personal experience.

So lets say ive done a fair share of shamanic journeying whether traditional or by headphones using auditory steering by listening to the cues and tempo changes of drumming in the traditional way. There are certain things that seem to be universally experienced by practitioners.

What i mean is non physical realities tend to have certain qualities. The same goes for other things like Tantra and certain things like i myself personally have been experiemcing astral projection for many years not as much as I once was experiencing it, but there are certain things certain phenomenon that everyone that projects from the physical body experiences. And if I listen to someone espousing astral projection in a certain way i would never call them a liar but i know what my personal experience is and I can gauge others stories by it but even then its hard to say and I wouldn't count on it past a really strong hunch.

Those that know, know its far and few between and everyones truths are not always everyones truth.

But usually someone that is highly realised will only speak of things that are true words because they are then medicine in themselves and have power. I only really speak on things like this because I hope someone who may be having scary out of body or strange spiritual traumas may read what I say and can msg me or find out atleast they are not alone.

I hope this all helped straighten some things out for you, do not asume that others are higher lower around above below behind the back to you nothing. I suggest everyone find a way to meditate as often as possible that suits them and maybe learn and study as many mystical traditiona as possible. Shamanism, whether the shuar tribe in Peru or the iboga cult of cameroob africa. Find a way to connect to the spiritual plane if you need growth or want something more in life otger tgan the physical.

The physical plane is fickle and to live in scarcity is wisdom.

Much love.

Sincerely,
Dark
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#10 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 04:57 PM

This is the forum I found when I first began having scary spontaneous astral projections and this is my first post there explaining how and why I have learned what ive learned and grown to the man i am today.

http://www.astralpul...72539#msg372539
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#11 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 05:08 PM

EYMAOIS, I keep hearing ppl say things about this site is this or that but people are people. If you look harder, or are here for a while you will see that we are indeed holding the torch and are TRYING TO PASS IT TO YOU. You are looking the other way maybe or are distracted by the not so spiritually intellegent and wrestling with mans not so better nature.

What I do is i calm down and I dont respond to that stuff. I have no time for it. I talk about growing mushrooms and cultivating mind.

Your poat right here has called us here who care now we are here. You have the floor.

But calling attention has got us here mayne you will start to notice another side and see what else is going on?

Ppl talk smack doesnt mean that the ones who care and make a difference infact do not care and are not trying to make a difference.
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#12 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 05:13 PM

I'll say right now, I'll try harder to ask people to be more spiritual knowledgeable and kind and caring but thats not doing anything they have freewill we have to go through our individualized tests quests and challenges. Thats how it works and i didnt make that up the spirits told me.

They dont work in groups. Its all very personal and until man changes there isnt alot we can do but speak truths.

I commend you for trying to make a difference. We can post about interesting things tho all we want and thats fine do that.

Ppl sometimes think we are nutty when we go so far as to say you all should be more attuned or this or that its just not the way to get ppl to evolve.

You must inspire I get that but wveryone is on the same path but at different junctions on the path.

You are maybe where the worst member of the site was a year ago I am maybe where you will be on the path in a year.


Whatever.

There must be a dark night of the soul in order to precipatate awakening.

Until that happens the heros journey cannot truely begin.
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#13 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 05:19 PM

And you canot call someones dark night of the soul to begin to precipitate an awakening. All you can do is try to grow and find like minded people so you dont go crazy. You can talk try to convince and try to sway the public but there is a reason there was once a law that an initiate can not speak to anyone that is not initiated about the mysteries.. Its because until one has strived for to learn the mysteries they will not appreciate it and you will make no sense and sound crazy and your words will fall on deaf ears.

You have to wait for them to learn better and strive for spiritual revelation before you can help.
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#14 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 05:19 PM

I'll shut up now I am sorry. Im speaking to much.
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#15 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 05:21 PM

I apologies just trying to help you understand.?
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#16 DarkNchildlike

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Posted 21 February 2021 - 05:26 PM

Last thing i promise. There are some truly polarizing elements here and its called people. i understand where you are coming from. I just dont know what to do about it except promote light and interest in self awareness.
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#17 EYMAIOS

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 03:47 AM

Thanks coopdog! Ive read some things youve written through years and love reading your insights, my friend. :)

TV has a good point. Thats why its so important to have the drive and need and want to advance because we are dealing with the non physical world of spirits and spiritual growth where there is no way to measure such things except by personal experience.

So lets say ive done a fair share of shamanic journeying whether traditional or by headphones using auditory steering by listening to the cues and tempo changes of drumming in the traditional way. There are certain things that seem to be universally experienced by practitioners.

What i mean is non physical realities tend to have certain qualities. The same goes for other things like Tantra and certain things like i myself personally have been experiemcing astral projection for many years not as much as I once was experiencing it, but there are certain things certain phenomenon that everyone that projects from the physical body experiences. And if I listen to someone espousing astral projection in a certain way i would never call them a liar but i know what my personal experience is and I can gauge others stories by it but even then its hard to say and I wouldn't count on it past a really strong hunch.

Those that know, know its far and few between and everyones truths are not always everyones truth.

But usually someone that is highly realised will only speak of things that are true words because they are then medicine in themselves and have power. I only really speak on things like this because I hope someone who may be having scary out of body or strange spiritual traumas may read what I say and can msg me or find out atleast they are not alone.

I hope this all helped straighten some things out for you, do not asume that others are higher lower around above below behind the back to you nothing. I suggest everyone find a way to meditate as often as possible that suits them and maybe learn and study as many mystical traditiona as possible. Shamanism, whether the shuar tribe in Peru or the iboga cult of cameroob africa. Find a way to connect to the spiritual plane if you need growth or want something more in life otger tgan the physical.

The physical plane is fickle and to live in scarcity is wisdom.

Much love.

Sincerely,
Dark

.

You stated something about:

"by headphones using auditory steering by listening to the cues and tempo changes of drumming in the traditional way."

This is extremely interesting and acceptable by many tecknologicaly oriented members.
Would you take the kind effort to elaborate (in a new thread) the "how to" and enlighten us all about this innovative way to meditate and heal with this new medicine?

.
Take heart Sacred Brother, all great changes have come out of messages raised by few, very few ppl.
I consider that only by example we may make any differenve...

.
"Laboremus"

.

PS... A voice in the desert is never alone with the wind as an ally.
 


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#18 EYMAIOS

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 07:05 AM

I'll shut up now I am sorry. Im speaking to much.

.

Do not shut up!
Cry loud your inner most feelings, you have to.

Is it a coincidence that ony you got the message and carry on?
 


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#19 ElPirana

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 11:26 AM

I think we can ask ourselves, what is meant by spirituality or spiritual levels? Are we all under the assumption that we have the same ideas of the spiritual goal?
I recently read a blog post by Christopher Wallis that talks about this, here’s a list of some of the various descriptions that he writes about:
(from https://hareesh.org/...o-the-same-goal)

In the Indian tradition, the single word that’s most often used to name the goal of the spiritual path is liberation (mokṣa or mukti). The word ‘liberation’ implies it’s the same goal but then you ask what liberation means and you find many different answers.

Liberation means, according to various scriptural authorities:

● escape from saṁsāra (cycle of birth and death)

● duḥkhānta (the end of suffering)

● the complete cessation of the desire for things to be other than as they are ( = nirvāṇa)

● separation from the material universe (kaivalya)

● attaining a heavenly realm

● the dissolution of the separate self

● the manifestation of one’s divinity (śivatva-abhivyakti)

● unity-consciousness

● abiding nondual awareness

● limitless bliss

● godlike powers

● becoming a Śiva (i.e., identical in nearly all respects to the original Śiva)

● becoming one with God

● becoming one with the Absolute

● realizing your oneness with the Absolute

● and many more.



1. Escape from Samsara.
Liberation can mean an exit from saṁsāra, meaning escaping from the cycle of birth and death. This was, for many Indian traditions, the point of liberation. This is not a goal that modern people tend to relate to. Many say, “Life is wonderful, why would I want to stop being born again and again?” To be blunt, this statement is absolutely evidence of your great privilege. Most humans, in most of the history of the world, found that life mostly sucks, and there would be no need to prove this point to anyone except people living in developed nations in the late 20th or early 21st century. For most humans in history, to escape from the cycle of birth and death would seem like a perfectly reasonable goal, and a spiritual path that promises that is a very interesting and attractive one.
2. Other goals were also spoken of, described and promised, such as duḥkhānta. That's Sanskrit for the end of suffering. According to some, liberation is the end of all suffering. Others said, “No, it's the end of all mind-created suffering”—which is more than good enough because nearly all of your suffering is mind-created.
3. For other traditions, the goal of the spiritual path is the separation from the material universe, kaivalya. That word means separation, isolation, or aloneness, and many people are surprised to learn it’s the word used in Yoga-sūtra for the goal of the path. Kaivalya means escaping from and transcending the material universe entirely; liberation, on this view, is to be completely disentangled and separated from the material universe.
4. Some traditions, such as the Chaitanya Vaishnavas a.k.a. the Gaudiya Vaishnavas a.k.a. the Hare Krishnas, believe liberation is attaining a heavenly realm, specifically Goloka, the paradise of cows, an incredibly exquisitely beautiful pastoral setting, an idealized vision of pastoral India, where all the cows are beautiful and healthy, all the people are beautiful and healthy, and Krishna can multiply himself a million versions of himself and be with each devotee personally. There’s no merging with God on this view. That’s not the goal of the path.
5. Some Buddhist lineages, and neo-vedānta lineages, believe that the primary goal of the spiritual path is best articulated as the death of the separate self, the death of the false self, the annihilation of the ego. All those phrases mean exactly the same thing: the end of the person you thought you were, which turns out to be just a mental construct. Many people who undergo this experience it as a fairly cataclysmic event and others don’t. Others just find the separate self just slips away and doesn’t come back, that’s somewhat rare but it can happen. When the death of the separate self happens suddenly instead of slowly, the person undergoing it is nearly always convinced that they are literally going to die. The constructed selfhood of the psyche is so intense that when it’s shearing apart, the person undergoing that process often thinks or feels that that they couldn't possibly survive this process. It feels like impending death or possibly insanity; but neither actually occurs.
6. Another articulation of the goal of the spiritual path is unity-consciousness. This is the state of being one with everything while still possessing a self. People glimpse this state on psychedelics and ‘plant medicines’ and it's a pretty wonderful thing. Some then take it to be the goal of the path.
7. Closely related, but a little different is the notion of the goal in terms of abiding nondual awareness. This is not exactly the same as unity-consciousness because unity consciousness is a feeling, it’s a felt sense of merging. In unity-consciousness one experiences a state where they say, “I am one with everything” but there's still an ‘I’ present and that ‘I’ experiences itself as one with everything. This can be very enjoyable but in abiding nondual awareness, there’s not really an ‘I’ present. The separate self has dissolved and there’s only nondual awareness, meaning there’s no “I am one with everything” because that’s two things, ‘I’ and ‘everything’. There's just non-duality, there’s just one glorious whole. It’s rare, but possible, for human beings to permanently enter into nondual awareness.
8. Other traditions or other lineages within the same tradition, state that the goal of the path is something like ‘limitless bliss’.
9. According to yet others, the goal of the path is having godlike powers. Many of the yoga texts, I’m ashamed to say, speak about about the godlike powers you will have when you reach the state of yoga. It’s an embarrassing aspect of the tradition, really.
10. The culmination of the practice, according to some Shaivite traditions, is to become a Shiva, to become a Rudra. This means that you attain the same powers, abilities, vision, and capacity as the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of the whole universe. The only difference is you don’t create, sustain, and destroy the whole universe. You could, but you don’t, out of respect to the original Shiva. Sanskrit texts state that to become a Śiva you rise to Śiva’s level and you’re separate but equal, without merging with him. (This is the view of the Śaiva Siddhānta branch of the tradition.)

The above descriptions don’t even touch on some experiences that are already in this thread, like out of body experiences/astral projection. Is this even a goal of spirituality? What of those who do not have those experiences?
It seems to me that when we are talking seriously about spirituality, we may want to define what we mean by such a term so that we can talk on the same terms, with the same base of understanding.
.
.

Now, changing topic a little bit, what is the role of free will? How deeply has each of us looked into the idea of free will? How much are we REALLY in control of anything in our lives? I have sometimes experienced self awareness in such a way that it appears that we are aware of the processes in the mind to such a high degree that it feels as if we are controlling our thoughts and intentions, but in reality the thoughts and intentions are happening, we are aware of those and FEEL as if we are doing it. But then you must ask, who am I? Who am I who thinks that “I” am doing any of it? As I move back, back, back within myself, I cannot find that “I” who I think it is doing any of these things. That sense of “I” was an illusion, a creation of the mind, which is not who I really am.

I’m always reminded of Ramana Maharshi. He has obviously had a profound influence on many people. But look closely at him, and you will see that he did not do anything. Ramana went within himself, he realized who he was, and then he stayed there in that pure knowledge of his true self. Everything after that simply happened. Lives were changed, but by whom?

The grace that changed Ramana Maharshi is the same grace that changed the lives of those people who came into contact with him. Ramana did not have to do anything, the changes happened of their own accord. Who is doing the changing? Why do we think that we must do something? We only think that we must do something because we don’t know ourselves.

From Sri Ramana Maharshi, “Who Am I?”:

Whatever burdens are thrown on God, He bears them. Since the supreme power of God makes all things move, why should we, without submitting ourselves to it, constantly worry ourselves with thoughts as to what should be done and how, and what should not be done and how not? We know that the train carries all loads, so after getting on it why should we carry our small luggage on our head to our discomfort, instead of putting it down in the train and feeling at ease?


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#20 EYMAIOS

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 02:52 PM

I think we can ask ourselves, what is meant by spirituality or spiritual levels? Are we all under the assumption that we have the same ideas of the spiritual goal?
I recently read a blog post by Christopher Wallis that talks about this, here’s a list of some of the various descriptions that he writes about:
(from https://hareesh.org/...o-the-same-goal)

In the Indian tradition, the single word that’s most often used to name the goal of the spiritual path is liberation (mokṣa or mukti). The word ‘liberation’ implies it’s the same goal but then you ask what liberation means and you find many different answers.

Liberation means, according to various scriptural authorities:

● escape from saṁsāra (cycle of birth and death)

● duḥkhānta (the end of suffering)

● the complete cessation of the desire for things to be other than as they are ( = nirvāṇa)

● separation from the material universe (kaivalya)

● attaining a heavenly realm

● the dissolution of the separate self

● the manifestation of one’s divinity (śivatva-abhivyakti)

● unity-consciousness

● abiding nondual awareness

● limitless bliss

● godlike powers

● becoming a Śiva (i.e., identical in nearly all respects to the original Śiva)

● becoming one with God

● becoming one with the Absolute

● realizing your oneness with the Absolute

● and many more.



1. Escape from Samsara.
Liberation can mean an exit from saṁsāra, meaning escaping from the cycle of birth and death. This was, for many Indian traditions, the point of liberation. This is not a goal that modern people tend to relate to. Many say, “Life is wonderful, why would I want to stop being born again and again?” To be blunt, this statement is absolutely evidence of your great privilege. Most humans, in most of the history of the world, found that life mostly sucks, and there would be no need to prove this point to anyone except people living in developed nations in the late 20th or early 21st century. For most humans in history, to escape from the cycle of birth and death would seem like a perfectly reasonable goal, and a spiritual path that promises that is a very interesting and attractive one.
2. Other goals were also spoken of, described and promised, such as duḥkhānta. That's Sanskrit for the end of suffering. According to some, liberation is the end of all suffering. Others said, “No, it's the end of all mind-created suffering”—which is more than good enough because nearly all of your suffering is mind-created.
3. For other traditions, the goal of the spiritual path is the separation from the material universe, kaivalya. That word means separation, isolation, or aloneness, and many people are surprised to learn it’s the word used in Yoga-sūtra for the goal of the path. Kaivalya means escaping from and transcending the material universe entirely; liberation, on this view, is to be completely disentangled and separated from the material universe.
4. Some traditions, such as the Chaitanya Vaishnavas a.k.a. the Gaudiya Vaishnavas a.k.a. the Hare Krishnas, believe liberation is attaining a heavenly realm, specifically Goloka, the paradise of cows, an incredibly exquisitely beautiful pastoral setting, an idealized vision of pastoral India, where all the cows are beautiful and healthy, all the people are beautiful and healthy, and Krishna can multiply himself a million versions of himself and be with each devotee personally. There’s no merging with God on this view. That’s not the goal of the path.
5. Some Buddhist lineages, and neo-vedānta lineages, believe that the primary goal of the spiritual path is best articulated as the death of the separate self, the death of the false self, the annihilation of the ego. All those phrases mean exactly the same thing: the end of the person you thought you were, which turns out to be just a mental construct. Many people who undergo this experience it as a fairly cataclysmic event and others don’t. Others just find the separate self just slips away and doesn’t come back, that’s somewhat rare but it can happen. When the death of the separate self happens suddenly instead of slowly, the person undergoing it is nearly always convinced that they are literally going to die. The constructed selfhood of the psyche is so intense that when it’s shearing apart, the person undergoing that process often thinks or feels that that they couldn't possibly survive this process. It feels like impending death or possibly insanity; but neither actually occurs.
6. Another articulation of the goal of the spiritual path is unity-consciousness. This is the state of being one with everything while still possessing a self. People glimpse this state on psychedelics and ‘plant medicines’ and it's a pretty wonderful thing. Some then take it to be the goal of the path.
7. Closely related, but a little different is the notion of the goal in terms of abiding nondual awareness. This is not exactly the same as unity-consciousness because unity consciousness is a feeling, it’s a felt sense of merging. In unity-consciousness one experiences a state where they say, “I am one with everything” but there's still an ‘I’ present and that ‘I’ experiences itself as one with everything. This can be very enjoyable but in abiding nondual awareness, there’s not really an ‘I’ present. The separate self has dissolved and there’s only nondual awareness, meaning there’s no “I am one with everything” because that’s two things, ‘I’ and ‘everything’. There's just non-duality, there’s just one glorious whole. It’s rare, but possible, for human beings to permanently enter into nondual awareness.
8. Other traditions or other lineages within the same tradition, state that the goal of the path is something like ‘limitless bliss’.
9. According to yet others, the goal of the path is having godlike powers. Many of the yoga texts, I’m ashamed to say, speak about about the godlike powers you will have when you reach the state of yoga. It’s an embarrassing aspect of the tradition, really.
10. The culmination of the practice, according to some Shaivite traditions, is to become a Shiva, to become a Rudra. This means that you attain the same powers, abilities, vision, and capacity as the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of the whole universe. The only difference is you don’t create, sustain, and destroy the whole universe. You could, but you don’t, out of respect to the original Shiva. Sanskrit texts state that to become a Śiva you rise to Śiva’s level and you’re separate but equal, without merging with him. (This is the view of the Śaiva Siddhānta branch of the tradition.)

The above descriptions don’t even touch on some experiences that are already in this thread, like out of body experiences/astral projection. Is this even a goal of spirituality? What of those who do not have those experiences?
It seems to me that when we are talking seriously about spirituality, we may want to define what we mean by such a term so that we can talk on the same terms, with the same base of understanding.
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Now, changing topic a little bit, what is the role of free will? How deeply has each of us looked into the idea of free will? How much are we REALLY in control of anything in our lives? I have sometimes experienced self awareness in such a way that it appears that we are aware of the processes in the mind to such a high degree that it feels as if we are controlling our thoughts and intentions, but in reality the thoughts and intentions are happening, we are aware of those and FEEL as if we are doing it. But then you must ask, who am I? Who am I who thinks that “I” am doing any of it? As I move back, back, back within myself, I cannot find that “I” who I think it is doing any of these things. That sense of “I” was an illusion, a creation of the mind, which is not who I really am.

I’m always reminded of Ramana Maharshi. He has obviously had a profound influence on many people. But look closely at him, and you will see that he did not do anything. Ramana went within himself, he realized who he was, and then he stayed there in that pure knowledge of his true self. Everything after that simply happened. Lives were changed, but by whom?

The grace that changed Ramana Maharshi is the same grace that changed the lives of those people who came into contact with him. Ramana did not have to do anything, the changes happened of their own accord. Who is doing the changing? Why do we think that we must do something? We only think that we must do something because we don’t know ourselves.

From Sri Ramana Maharshi, “Who Am I?”:

Whatever burdens are thrown on God, He bears them. Since the supreme power of God makes all things move, why should we, without submitting ourselves to it, constantly worry ourselves with thoughts as to what should be done and how, and what should not be done and how not? We know that the train carries all loads, so after getting on it why should we carry our small luggage on our head to our discomfort, instead of putting it down in the train and feeling at ease?

 

Sacred Brother ElPirana,

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In Zen and in cubes  we dont need the assumption that we have the same ideas of the spiritual goal as we are dealing with direct perception.
Zazen teaches Zen, and cubes provide temporary "enlightenment a la cart".

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The exraordinary result is that in direct perception no "Faith" is required messing us with any religious implications.

In direct perception we go beyond beliefs and theology boundaries, straight into the essence of Unity.

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This said and provided we are dealing with "Ego Loss" situations, I wonder how come ppl are not inspired spiritually beyond the superficial recreation attitude...

I may be naive, but my head cannot contemplate that some of us remain unaltered after the Divine Gift.

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In case you may provide any explanation for our Brothers insensitivity please elaborate.


  • cujoloki and ElPirana like this




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