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A/b extraction pics


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#1 TheObserver

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 11:52 AM

I finally had some time to do another a/b extraction using a lb of mhrb I acquired awhile ago. I think I was a little balsy trying 1000 g of bark instead of the more manageable 500g amount so I ended up reducing 6 gallons aqueous solution to 2 gallons. 10 hours later and I was wiped out but somehow I managed to get it into the fridge to cold crash the particles. I slowly reduced it once again in two stainless steel pots to 800ml per pot then poured into hdpe half gal jugs.

 

So now at this point I have obligations (work and things to take care of) so I left it in the fridge for a couple days. When I got back around to adding the basic water and doing the naptha washes there was a gooey dense sludge at the bottom of the jug. This was not unusual so I went ahead and added 450ml of clean dh20 with the lye and it only took a very little bit to raise to 12ph. So I have two half gal jugs with the lye water added and poured 250ml vm&p into one of the jugs and shook the shit out of it for 5 min and then the same with other one. It created an emulsion that would not separate.

 

So further reading in the a/b writeup I was following gave me a solution to this problem. (Thank you Defiance). I added some lye to 300ml water got it really hot, saturated it with salt and poured my emulsion into it and it worked to break it. 5-10min later it was separated with a nice clear layer of solvent on top. I was relieved because I wasn't sure what to do. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong in the process. Maybe I got the aqueous too hot when soaking with ascorbic acid. All I had was a meat thermometer to test the water temp and I tried to keep it 90-100°F the entire soak. I thought maybe I didn't use enough lye to make the basic water but I tested it with my ph meter and it was 12ph.

 

Anyways I decanted the naptha and put into a couple quart mason jars. I noticed a light yellow tinge and stuck in the fridge overnight. This morning I could see crystals forming on the sides and bottom as you can tell in the pictures. I just put it in the freezer to precipitate the rest of the DMT. I plan on cleaning it after its all dried with a little more boiled naptha to get all the impurities out. I'll post some more pictures as it progresses. Thanks for reading.

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Edited by Skywatcher, 24 March 2021 - 08:55 AM.
adding paragraph breaks

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#2 coAsTal

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 12:12 PM

I'm curious-- what caused you to choose an A/B extraction method with MHRB?

Plant fats in that bark are so low as to be effectively negligible-- Straight-to-Base is pretty universal with mimosa for that reason.

Also, the amount of water you're using is monstrous-- half that would have sufficed for 500g.

I've used that amountr and still gotten ~2% alk weight extractions in the past.

One more note-- you don't want to use that much solvent with each pull-- you'll just end up having to evap it off to get the alks to solidify-- unless that amount is the total of several pulls --

Despite the crystal visible in your naptha there's a bunch you won't get out unless you condense the solvent.

I'd evap off 80% of it with a fan and then freeze precip, otherwise you'll never get the spice to fully drop out.

 

Otherwise, it looks like you're on the right track!


Edited by coAsTal, 23 March 2021 - 01:41 PM.

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#3 TheObserver

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:11 PM

I chose A/B because it has worked for me. I get good yields from this Tek. I followed Mr. Kush' a/b MHRB extraction' Pictorial & write-up because it is pretty straight forward and I liked how he explains things. This is my third or fourth go at this so I continue to evolve and strive to do better.

Yeah that was a ton of water. I was doing 1000 grams of bark which is double what Mr kush was using. I poured 2 gallons of water in the pot added the lb of bark and ascorbic acid and soaked for 2 and a half hours stirring frequently. Then when I was done with the first soak I would strain those two gallons into another pot with cheesecloth and repeat the process two more x. I started reducing those two gallons of aqueous in the pot I strained it in while doing another soak bc it was a lot of volume.

I took it out of the freezer so it would return to room temperature so I can evaporate 80% of the solvent. Will the crystals that have formed dissolve back into the naptha so I can evap? I'm just making sure I'm doing this right after all that work.
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#4 coAsTal

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 03:35 PM

Yes, they'll dissolve back in as the temp rises, but once you condense the solvent and lower the alk:solvent ratio you'll find that they re-form very quickly and everything will crash out faster as temps drop again. You'll know when it's time to stop the evap when your solvent turns milky from the density of the alks floating in the solvent-- the cool air at the surface will create microscopic crystals and as the solvent evaps away these will begin to stay solid in the solution-- you'll see what I mean as you reduce. That's how you want it when you go to freeze precip, because it tells you that the alks aren't able to dissolve in the solvent anymore.

 

One other advantage to getting it down to as little solvent as possible is that you can get crystal forming at higher temps-- I will often use the fridge not the freezer first because larger, more heavy glassy crystal will often form there as opposed to the dusty snowflakes you get in a fast freeze precip. Just takes a day or three instead of overnight like the freezer.

In fact, back when I first started I even evapped like a 100g extraction down to a shot glass and huge dime-size glass crystal bundles appeared over a couple weeks at room temp! It just takes more time. But because the crystal is more solid, it's easier (for me) to dose and use than fluffy airy powder crystals that often result from fast freeze-precip.

 

Anyway, after the first freeze-precip, then you can pour off the solvent from these first crystals, and evap off/condense the remaining solvent again until only a very small amount remains-- then you freeze precip that to crash out as much as possible- then you just evap off the last bit of solvent on a glass dish to get any remaining DMT in the solution onto the glass-- which at the point will probably be an oily gel--  it's mostly DMT oxide and some minute plant oils that are harmless to smoke, and totally usable-- just take care to thoroughly evap out any solvent in it.

 

I like to use damiana, mugwort, and caapi leaf (and an array of others) as an herbal base for most all of my vaping sessions-- so I will take a pre-weighted bit of those herbs and scrub the dmt oil up so it soaks into them-- then I re-weigh, and it tells me how much is in that herb so I can properly dose.

Being soaked into the herb will also allow the tiny bit of remainng solvent air off and ensure you're not getting any in you when you smoke.

 

Best of luck!!! :thumbs_up2:


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#5 TheObserver

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 04:50 PM

On my last one I did in the middle of summer and we didn't have ac so I poured the solvent into a glass baking dish and stuck it in the freezer overnight to precip it and when I took it out the day after I think some of it vaporized and turned into that oily gel. It was probably upper 80's and humid af. I let it evap and was able to scrub it into some bud. So it wasn't a total loss.

I've never used Damiana, mugwort or caapi leaf before but I'm intrigued by the caapi leaf. I think I used mullein to smoke DMT on one time because I didn't have any bud. When you're combining caapi with DMT how does it affect or improve the experience? I'm curious because Caapi contains MAOI inhibitors.

The jars are still a little cool to the touch these are two separate jars in each picture. So I'm just waiting till it all dissolves or could I take off the lids and start evaporating it now? Would it matter? Thank you for all the advice!

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#6 Norman

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 06:20 PM

You got the emulsion the first time around because you only basified to pH12. You need to be up around 13.5 to be able to really shake the shit out of the jug.
It sounds like you didn’t cook the acid bark solution. If you still have the spent bark you might want to try a boil to see if you left anything behind.
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#7 coAsTal

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 06:38 PM

I can't praise the addition of companion herbs highly enough-- they absolutely add to the character of the trip. I don't smoke cannabis at all, but I love these for DMT.

Damiana tastes amazing, and between it and the mugwort gives a dreamy, sensual edge to the experience.

Yes, caapi leaf has maoi's, but it's a very small amount-- that said, they're very synergistic, and I rarely make changa without it.

 

I would HIGHLY recommend you buy some Syrian Rue seeds for your harmalas (maoi's). Dirt-ass cheap, fully legal, extremely similar to b. caapi vine (just doesn't have the THH-- which is a big deal but not at all the main show in vine) and you can use them 20 minutes after you get them home. No extraction required-- although doing one is super easy, I don't bother anymore because the plain seeds are the same without the hassle.

 

Just bake them for 16-18 minutes at 350F in your oven to cook off the other chems found in them that can cause vasoconstriction, and it also leaves them FAR easier on the stomach.

 

Grind to fine powder and eat 45 minutes before smoking the DMT. Your trip will last over twice as long and is absolutely better in every way. I advise you start with 1g seed and work your way up to see what level is right for you-- and please never, ever take if you use ssri's or 5HTP or anything else contraindicated with MAOI's-- these are very potent seeds! You can absolutely trip on them alone, though the body load will fuck you up if you go too high. Start at 1 gram and work up-- trust me. I got to where ~2 or 3g was my standard but it depends on your preference. Lasts about 4 hours. Also small bumps of DMT on this seed keeps you in "the zone" for fucking hours-- which saves your spice consumption like crazy.

 

I'd hit 20--30mg to start, then bump 10-15mg every 20 or 30 minutes (or as desired) to hit the cruise control, so to speak. It's fantastic. And the more harmalas you have, the greater the sensitivity to the DMT-- even though it comes on slower and more... "whole" somehow-- so less actual spice will get you there over time.

 

As for the jars, there's no need to wait, just get them outside and put a fan on them. They'll evap less quickly when cool, so if it's still cold out there you can consider doing the fan indoors if you're in a rush, so long as you're extremely careful to blow the fan air outside so the evapped solvent fumes aren't in your breathing space.

 

I have also used a coffee cup warmer to heat the container as it's fanning so that it would evap faster-- but great caution is required, and I always put something between the glass bottom and the heating element to avoid direct contact-- and you seriously have to watch it carefully-- so you probably shouldn't do it (there's my disclaimer)


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#8 coAsTal

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 06:40 PM

You got the emulsion the first time around because you only basified to pH12. You need to be up around 13.5 to be able to really shake the shit out of the jug.
It sounds like you didn’t cook the acid bark solution. If you still have the spent bark you might want to try a boil to see if you left anything behind.

Agreed Norman--
Another thing-- I only used acetic acid for this shit (vinegar) because it boils off during the cook leaving just water eventually-- citric, ascorbic, etc... all those stay in the water, so you're stuck with them.


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#9 Norman

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 08:10 PM

Yeah I started using distilled white vinegar ala Marsofold and then tried every acid I could get my hands on and then went back to DWV and never looked back.
Three overnights in a crockpot at 1:3 and then another with plain water.
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#10 coAsTal

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 09:23 PM

Also excellent for cactus-- which needs all the help it can get in the taste department ;)



#11 bezevo

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 11:32 AM

ooogh cactus crystals ha ...eeerrr  hummm .. ............................ok hey thanks for sharing tips ......TheObserver , CoAstAl and Norman . and others that will ad there 2.5 cents ha


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#12 TheObserver

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Posted 25 March 2021 - 09:25 AM

This is where I'm at. Still evaporating with a fan. Its raining today so humidity is up. I don't know how much will evap but how much more should I reduce? Will the humidity effect the evap process?

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Edited by TheObserver, 25 March 2021 - 09:35 AM.


#13 coAsTal

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Posted 25 March 2021 - 07:21 PM

Yes, humid air will slow your evap, but it will still work.

You could fridge or freezer now if you want-- or continue to reduce until the fan air starts to cloud the solution with crystal haze as mentioned above. Whichever route you choose to take you're going to get better crystal now than before.


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#14 TheObserver

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 01:53 PM

I'm back with an update. Here's what happened after evaporating a majority of the solvent and putting both jars in the fridge for a few days and then freezer to precip then it was put outside with lids off to dry out the rest of the solvent but it was quite warm out under the sun and it appeared to melt or turn into a gooey gel. Got a small amount of naptha hot enough to dissolve all the dmt back into the solvent and combined the two jars into one clean jar let sit for awhile to come down to room temperature and stuck in the fridge for a couple days and into the freezer overnight. There's still a brown honey looking sheen on the bottom of this white spice. What do you recommend to do with it now? Should I try to clean again?

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#15 TheObserver

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 02:02 PM

I'm going to do another run with just 200g of bark and just do it simply using marsofolds tek I think it is. I was definitely making it more complicated and probably losing some spice handling it so much. Unfortunately I threw away the bark I should have kept. I'm learning alot though.

Where can you find caapi leaf and syrian rue seed?

Edited by TheObserver, 01 April 2021 - 02:04 PM.

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#16 bezevo

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 02:41 PM

you might check into  legal already extracted  Harmalas  from Syrian rue ..  full spectrum or more  pure ...  free base for vaping or HCI for oral 

 

https://www.harmalas.com/#/


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#17 coAsTal

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 05:01 PM

There's still a brown honey looking sheen on the bottom of this white spice. What do you recommend to do with it now? Should I try to clean again?

Yep,, that's just the plant oils and DMT oxide discussed earlier. I'd get as much of that good clean white stuff out before cleaning because it's already good to go and there's no reason to re-mix it.

Just re-liquify the remaining crystal with room-temp solvent (gentle swirling is the name of the game here-- you can also let it sit for a couple of days) and you'll see the oily stuff will mostly stay in a layer on the bottom because it is sticky. The warmer the solvent the more of the bottom stuff you'll pick back up, so I would avoid heat. Pour off the solvent once you're satisfied you've gotten the crystal liquid and re-evap it like you did before.

Once all that is gone and you have nothing left but red/brown goo, you can clean the sludge further by basing a small amount of water to PH13+ just like you did during extraction, and let it pull out the DMT from the dissolved goo again.

 

Let it sit for a day or three so all the particulates settle out in a layer on the very bottom again and all the alks will go into the solution, then pour/decant out the clear(ish) liquid into a clean vessel, leaving the sediment behind, and use fresh naptha on the based water extract just like you did the first time.

 

This is a great way to get rid of the grunge from a dirty initial extraction. Over time and experimentation you'll get better at the process so that you don't get too much garbage in your solvent pulls.

Based on my experience I don't use heat over ~90F until the 3rd or later extraction anymore, since the lions share of funk comes from overheated solutions. I also base the shit out of my bark water, because emulsions always invite oils to get into the solvent-- especially when heated. Lye is cheap so I err on the side of more is better.

 

This way I get the cleanest pulls of the main alks out with the least oils, which I keep apart from later pulls, and then I can crank the heat for the final 2 or 3 pulls to really squeeze out the last bit. The two-stage crystallization where I evap until the fridge forms crystals, then pour off, re-evap, and freeze precip usually keeps oils in the alks to a minimum, at which point I'll herb them to use with my VapoGenie down the road.

 

My spice is always white to faint pastel yellow with a floral scent of cosmic transcendence --

You're getting great product-- keep up the good work!!


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#18 coorsmikey

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 09:53 PM

The pure white in my opinion, is like I am witnessing the experience. Whereas a lil of the orange goo mixed in which usually absorbs into the white Xtal so its not so sticky and is easily handled, is more like I am experiencing the experience like I am there. The white stall has good bag appeal but personally I like it a lil dirty.


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#19 bezevo

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 10:24 AM

HE  LIKES IT A LITTLE DIRTY  ..!  ....................THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID ..!

 

HEH !

 

BEZ


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#20 TheObserver

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Posted 06 April 2021 - 08:54 PM

Got around to scraping out the white dmt in the jar I freeze precipitated and added some basic water to the stuff left over and some room temperature naptha, shook and going to let it sit for a couple days to decant the naptha off. It looks pretty cloudy atm but maybe there's a good bit of DMT left. I haven't weighed it yet but looks like a good enough amount.

Ordered some Damiana leaf, mugwort, and Syrian Rue also.

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