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New paper: HPBCD complexed DMT made 100% bioavailable sublingually under tongue


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#21 coAsTal

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for your continued exploration in these interesting fields tregar-- I've been reading your posts for many years now on various sites-- you do good things for the entheogenic community, and I am grateful :hug:


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#22 drmcnasty

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 10:36 AM

I've been keeping my eye on this thread. I have everything I need except for the 90 minutes, hopefully some day soon I will be able to find that.
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#23 Chips101

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 02:13 AM

IMPORTANT!: Post #1 corrected HPBCD to DMT mg ratio...and also added link to a paper at very bottom showing that even 50 to 100mg sublingual doses of pharmaceuticals shown to be very effective!


HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ayahuasca

I used a 7:1 gram weight ratio of HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, molar weight between 1200 to 1500 g/mol) on auction sites and elsewhere, to DMT (molar weight = 188g/mol) in order to keep the molar ratio of cyclodextrin to host drug at a 1:1 molar ratio. What I did was place for example 30mg freebase dmt on a spoon, add 210mg of HPBCD powder on top the DMT, add many drops of water from a pipette, mix it all together for 30 seconds using a toothpick, then draw up liquid with pipette, place drops under tongue and hold for 10 minutes or so...I prefer 15 minutes. The DMT will dissolve into the bloodstream.

Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral. HPBCD makes the non-water soluble DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream.

Most studies recommend a 1:1 equimolar ratio of HPBCD to host drug for complexing.

Strong effects at 5 minutes after the end of the 10 to 15 minute sublingual drug delivery under tongue: tryptamine rush/buzz & greatly elevated heart rate & pulse, dilated pupils...neon colorful visuals/visions...peak at 30 to 45 minutes, duration 60 to 90 minutes.

This was using DMT cleaned up using a sodium carbonate wash. PKA of DMT is 8.75 or so, so do not use a sodium bicarbonate wash -- it will eat up most of your DMT, as ph of bicarb is not high enough, it needs to be 1 to 2 points higher than PKA of DMT, at 11 or 11.5 or so is perfect, where 100% sodium carbonate PH is at, found in pool isle of home box store.

This would allow those who normally get nausea from oral preps to avoid the nausea. There is no burn under tongue, taste yes. I used this 4 times in one night over the course of several hours with THH, and my tongue was just fine, no burn or scarring. Felt just fine next day too. I experienced infinite beauty and visuals, very transcendent.

HPBCD is a new technology that allows freebase nonpolar drugs like DMT to be trapped by the cyclodextrin inner cavity which is composed of an inner "non-polar trap", and "outer polar cavity or cone" which allows the normally water insoluble DMT to be made 100% water soluble.

HPBCD is composed from a sugar molecule, it has been used to make scores of other non-water soluble drugs 100% water soluble and reach peak activity as measurements of the drug in the bloodstream indicated that all of the freebase drug was absorbed effectively.

Other examples of non water soluble freebase non-polar drugs complexed with HPBCD made water soluble: hormones, pregnisolone, etc.

Apparently, this also makes the DMT absorb very well if taken orally as well, improving even the oral bio-availability by many factors when taken with RIMA's to activate it, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------
THH or tetrahydroharmine can be taken orally (100 to 200mg), my favorite in combo, while the DMT can be used sublingually, allowing the best of both worlds. Zero nausea. Have tried this in dreams several times, and it works extremely well, tryptamine rush felt around 5 or more minutes after sublingual application, peak at 30 to 45 minutes, like an extended sub-breakthrough, excellent for long lasting transcendental contemplation and work. Best to limit to once a week or so, so no tolerance.

professor8 (11/1/2010, he writes like a poet with special powers of imagination & expression):

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.


Should add that music sounds quite incredible on a combo of 150mg or more of THH + DMT as tetrahydroharmine breaks down the filters or barriers in the mind, very similar to listening to music on cactus.

Don't forget that this should improve the ORAL BIOAVAILABILITY of dmt when combined with a RIMA as well -- by many factors -- this technology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- this could potentially mean a pharmahuasca experience that is very strong indeed!
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Sublingual mucosa as a route for systemic drug delivery" by Narang & Sharma 2010:

Microsoft Word - 1092.doc (innovareacademics.in)

As you can see from the bottom linked sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:

"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003.

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/12741340/
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Here are a few of my other topics in case you are interested:

13,000 views:
Positronic Ayahuasca brewing
Positronic Ayahuasca brewing - Ayahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

12,000 views:
Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt
Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt - Ayahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

6,000 views:
New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water
New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water. - Botanicals - Mycotopia
I was going to ask about this for Hawaiian Woodrose or morning glory seeds. Again great work !

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#24 tregar

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 08:47 AM

Thanks for comments CoAsTal, drmcnasty & Chips101.
 
Question:
Interesting read. This might sound silly but if the goal from the cyclodextrin is to solubilize the freebase DMT then why not just convert the freebase into its salt form and thus it will easily dissolve? Why doesn't DMT salt work for sublingual route?
Great idea, I used HPBCD over salting, only because I have past experience complexing prohormones to HPBCD, it's fast (30 seconds) and works well, as mentioned earlier, no burn or scarring, under tongue felt fine afterwards and next day. I would encourage someone who has access to both to do a study and compare each method: HPBCD complexed DMT to the salt form.
 
30mg HPBCD DMT under tongue was quite strong, WAY stronger than 30mg DMT I have taken orally with RIMA: harmine & SRI: thh combo, as mentioned in sublingual viagra study above, much less of the drug is needed when used sublingually and it starts working in only 1/2 the time of an oral pharmaceutical.
 
If you can't make the THH yourself, just google it I would imagine. Auction sites and elsewhere have the HPBCD. I have a 1kg tub of HPBCD:

Attached Thumbnails

  • HPBCD tub.JPG

Edited by tregar, 25 April 2021 - 11:27 AM.

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#25 tregar

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 05:20 PM

Don't forget to take from 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine around 30 minutes before the sublingual under the tongue HPBCD DMT, music will sound incredible, divine transcendence and visions, very similar to cactus tea.


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#26 tregar

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 07:10 AM

I spent the last hour pulling up many threads on "sublingual or nasal fumarate salt DMT", and they were all very dissapointing reads, whereas the several HPBCD complexed 30mg DMT experiments I performed were strong indeed--held under tongue for 15 minutes, 5 minutes later: rapid hearbeat, rapid pulse, dilated pupils, felt distinct tryptamine rush & buzz take over my body, neon colored CEV visuals. Felt elation, euphoria especially in combo with the THH which I had taken many hours earlier.

Music sounded very good, experienced profound beauty with open eyes & CEV's with closed eyes. The duration was long. I re-dosed more 30mg HPBCD complexed DMT every hour for the next 3 hours, it was a sublime experience. I should have gone even higher in dosage to gauge. The afterglow even after the 3 hour period was fantastic. I watched a movie and had a fantastic time.

Have no explanation for how well this worked, there must be something special going on with the complexed HPBCD DMT, I can feel that it all absorbs in less than 15 minutes, and it wastes no time in reaching the brain unhindered, very impressed with this route of administration.

Look forward to hearing from other experimenters, HPBCD is dirt cheap. I bought my 1kg tub for less than the price of two movie tickets over 12 years ago, had been sitting in my closet all that time, used it in the past for complexing pro-hormones for sublingual use, very effective I might add, been a weight lifter since my early 20's. I read other weight lifters were doing the same, so I copied what they were doing before pro-hormones were banned. 


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#27 tregar

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 07:03 AM

Actual revised title of this thread should be:

 

HPBCD complexed DMT made very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, 30 second formed alternative to fumarate salt 

 

Note: If anyone get's anything out of this thread, to remember that this can be a SUPER ALTERNATIVE to making the DMT fumarate salt.

 

In TIHKAL, 300mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) is equated by one psychonaut to the closed eye visionary (CEV) power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness. I totally agree. 
 

Keep in mind that making the fumarate salt of DMT is a somewhat long involved process with many steps, whereas using HPBCD, you can form a water soluble DMT compound in 30 seconds that can even be used orally with a RIMA: (example, harmine) and SRI: (THH) combination, with everything dissolved all together in a hot tea, all taken at the exact same time (just as the Shaman's do) for a powerful Ayahuasca, that will be quite potent orally.  I've taken Ayahuasca over 70 times now over a period of many years, my favorite next to cactus tea. 


Edited by tregar, 27 April 2021 - 12:47 PM.

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#28 tregar

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 05:46 PM

HPBCD complexed DMT made very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, 30 second formed alternative to fumarate salt 
 
Edited to add: table of contents for this paper:
 
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome data similar to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions

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#29 tregar

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 01:57 AM

Compete paper with lots of pictures:

https://www.dmt-nexu...g=posts&t=96861

 

HPBCD complexed DMT made very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca, 30 second formed alternative to fumarate salt.

Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman


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#30 tregar

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 04:14 PM

Tiny amount of sticky liquid HPBCD complexed DMT glob sort of reminds me of cartoon below. :biggrin:

glob.JPG



#31 tregar

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 01:12 AM

.HPBCD complex to DMT suggested molar ratio.JPG



#32 tregar

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 06:05 AM

The point I'm trying to make, and the reason I put this in the botanicals experience section...is that the combination of the two (oral THH taken 1 hour earlier) and sublingual under the tongue DMT for 15 minutes results in the "full monty", will give you an experience like strong cactus tea or true Ayahuasca, the full mind expansion transcendence. This is what a lot of people don't understand, is that Ayahuasca is teamwork between the various alkaloids.
 
Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of its remarkable visionary properties. It's an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, it's what gives Ayahuasca is telapathine or telethapy properties and hours of dream-like realistic closed eye visionary visions.
 
I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for 2 hours, the detail is way beyond 4k, mind-blowing vistas...totally unlike normal dreams, it seems to tap into the "Archaic record" of the universe, where all events, past, present, and future are stored...it shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.
 
DMT according to two studies posted in part 2 does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does (like ibogaine, cactus, LSD, mushrooms), serotonin blocking results in stimulation and the breaking down of the survival filters or barriers in the mind, the combination of the two results in not just 20% receptor stimulation from the DMT alone, but 100% receptor stimulation, as 5-ht1a inhibition (serotonin blockage) makes up over 80% of brain 5-ht according to LSD scientist Dr. Nichols. Tetrahydroharmine has also been shown to agonize the A2A-A2C receptors, just like mescaline, they have numerous receptorome similarities.
 
You will notice with the combination of the two that music sounds incredible, closed eye visions are seen like those of "true Ayahuasca" described in "Antipodes of the Mind" by Benny Shanon, or cactus tea. Open eyed beauty is profound, impossible neon colors not seen on this earth become apparent.
 
Last night with a combination 250mg oral tetrahydroharmine dosage, and sublingual HPBCD DMT dosage of 50mg, when I waved my hand, I saw colored fractals inside the tracers. The duration is long with the sublingual DMT, it comes on in 1/2 the time of an oral dose, and you need much less of the drug than what is needed orally with a RIMA. One of the best parts is that I experience no nausea.
 
Out of this world impossible neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • out of this world impossible neon colors are a trait of tetrahydroharmine + DMT.JPG

Edited by tregar, 07 May 2021 - 12:58 PM.

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#33 tregar

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 08:22 AM

redgreenvines said:
well you can mix me up a batch
I would love too! But since I can't just buy some HPBCD powder, dirt cheap.
 
Ferdinando said:
mescaline is a second
Full bodied cactus tea from 1 x 12" bridgesii or 2 x 12" medium thickness to 1 x 12" large thickness San Pedro is my absolute favorite, have done over 90 times now over many years, totally bad ass. The 250mg oral THH + 30mg on up sublingual HPBCD DMT ranks in the same, both equally VERY bad ass. I keep a trip diary over a period of many years. I've done Ayahuasca x 70 times now.
 
Tyrannicalrex said:
I'm about to try cactus/mesc extraction HcL more than likely. I have a couple kilos of MHRB, probably a lifetime supply, lol. I could get 36 grams of DMT from them give or take.
Tell you what, just cut the cactus down the sides (de-core it), cut into chunks, peel the skin off each chunck, and boil the pieces for 1 hour, then strain thru a strainer and drink--so easy and kicks much ass--full bodied complete spectrum. Also, so glad to hear you have a lifetime supply of MHRB.

Edited by tregar, 08 May 2021 - 11:35 AM.


#34 tregar

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 03:58 PM

Have a new batch of DMT that I "did not clean with a sodium carbonate wash this time".
 
Will be using this new batch of "non sodium carbonate wash cleaned" DMT to do a series of HPBCD experiments later this week, will then report back, will be complexing 40mg of DMT to 280mg of HPBCD powder to form a sticky glob, will place under tongue for 15 minutes and take 250mg of tetrahydroharmine 1 hour earlier, and report back.
 
My procedure:
1) place 40mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD
3) this means 40mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 280mg of HPBCD on top DMT
4) add many drops of water to the mix
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon then stir it all for 30 seconds using a toothpick
6) place sticky glob (HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes) under tongue for 15 minutes and report back
7) the "sticky glob" can be left out and the water will evaporate to leave a solid complex which can be placed under tongue too, but I never do this, I just directly place the sticky glob under tongue right away, 30 second procedure, works extremely well, same way weightlifters used to form HPBCD complexed pro-hormones back in the day before they were banned, for sublingual "under tongue" use.
 
The sticky HPBCD DMT glob looks similar to the cartoon below.

Attached Thumbnails

  • HPBCD complex to DMT suggested molar ratio.JPG
  • glob.JPG

Edited by tregar, 09 May 2021 - 04:57 PM.

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#35 tregar

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Posted 10 May 2021 - 05:00 AM

1) For the HPBCD DMT experiments, prefer using "clean DMT" or DMT that has been cleaned using a sodium carbonate wash, procedure below:
 
2) PKA of DMT is 8.75 or so, so please do not use a sodium bicarbonate wash -- it will eat up most of your DMT, as ph of bicarb is not high enough, it needs to be 1 to 2 points higher than PKA of DMT, at 11 or 11.5 or so is perfect, where 100% sodium carbonate PH is at, found in pool isle of home box store.
 
3) As performing a "sodium carbonate wash" on crystals AFTER they are freeze precipitated is a pain in the ass, will attempt to perform a sodium carbonate wash in real time this time, immediately on the 1st pull, and every pull thereafter.
 
4) For example, a procedure which yields 1.5g DMT from 150 gram powdered bark: the first pull is using 75ml naptha on 150g powdered bark mixed into 1.7 liter lye water (1.5 x 150g bark = use 225g lye dissolved into the 1.7 liter 150 degree hot water by slowly sprinkling in lye using safety goggles and long chemical resistant gloves that go up each arm, and standing back as far as possible...the hot water will fizz but not boil up) in a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (.5 x 150g bark = use 75ml naptha pull for each of the 4 pulls). An erlenmeyer flask makes it easy to do pulls using a long glass pipette, as the top of flask is tapered, so all the naptha collects at the top for easy pull.
 
Use an electronic thermometer to check the temp of the Lye water bark mix, when the lye water cools down from 150 degree F to around 115 to 110 degree F, then it's time to add your 75ml of naptha, make sure your 2L flask is sitting on a mitten or similar...this makes it easy to swirl your flask to mix the contents, make sure you are using the proper rubber stopper number to seal the top of your flask once you turn it upside down then right side up to mix the contents as well.
 
Prefer to do a combination of swirling and a couple of upside down then right side up turns of the 2L flask, then once right side up, let the rubber stopper out, and let the stopper just barely sit in the flask (not tight), so gasses can exit. After 1/2 hour, all the 75ml of naptha will migrate & collect at the top of the tapered erlenmeyer flask...use your long glass pipette to collect the naptha, that's it! very easy, no mess, and the tapered erlenmeyer flask and glass pipette with round rubber plunger at the end makes it easy to collect the naptha at the top without collecting any lye water by accident. This is the way a real chemist would do it.
 
to clean...then use 1/4 of the amount of each naptha pull or (0.25 x 75ml pull = use 19ml of warm water at 100 degree F with a dash of sodium carbonate dissolved into it) till ph = 11 to 11.5 of the wash water.
 
5) So then add the 75ml saturated naptha bark pull into a sep funnel, add 19ml of warm (100 degree F) sodium carbonate solution, and shake & swirl it all together in the sep funnel for 5 seconds, then separate off the bottom layer which will be the sodium carbonate water and dispose of it, and let out the top layer of sodium carbonate washed clean naptha into a 1/2 pint jar, put lid on jar, place in freezer, and freeze precipitate overnight, and collect clean crystals in morning by pouring over a coffee filter attached to a 1/2 pint wide jar with rubber band.
 
6) Will be using this new batch of real time "sodium carbonate wash cleaned naptha pull" DMT to do a series of HPBCD experiments later this week, will then report back, will be complexing 40mg of DMT to 280mg of HPBCD powder to form a sticky glob, will place under tongue for 15 minutes and take 250mg of tetrahydroharmine 1 hour earlier, and report back.
 
My procedure:
1) place 40mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD
3) this means 40mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 280mg of HPBCD on top DMT
4) add many drops of water to the mix
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon then stir it all for 30 seconds using a toothpick
6) place sticky glob (HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes) under tongue for 15 minutes
7) the "sticky glob" can be left out and the water will evaporate to leave a solid complex which can be placed under tongue too, but I never do this, I just directly place the sticky glob under tongue right away, 30 second procedure, works extremely well, same way weightlifters used to form HPBCD complexed pro-hormones back in the day before they were banned, for sublingual "under tongue" use.
 

Edited by tregar, 10 May 2021 - 08:17 AM.


#36 tregar

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Posted 11 May 2021 - 04:17 PM

Tomorrow I will be hitting two elves with one stone. I will take not only 70mg of HPBCD DMT orally with 200mg harmine + 250mg tetrahydroharmine orally all dissolved into a hot tea with some crushed vitamin C to dissolve the harmalas, and report back to see if the experience is similar to using an actual Hawaiian psychotria brew (which is always VERY kick ass super strong, all encompassing & very neon colorful with tracers that go onto infinity)...but after it wears off I will then take 30mg on up of sublingual HPBCD DMT to extend the trip, and bring back 60 to 90 minutes of DMT activity.

message to me:

Quote
haha yeah that sure helped confuse me. What is the point of that procedure anyway to make an edible version of dmt?

This thread shows how to make in 30 seconds what is called HPBCD DMT, using only a spoon, some HPBCD powder, some DMT, and drops of water.

When you for example make a hot tea with some crushed vitamin C to help dissolve the harmine and thh, and add 180 to 230mg harmine to the tea, along with 150 to 250mg of tetrahydroharmine to the tea, and also add 70mg of HPBCD complexed DMT to the hot tea, it could give you a powerful Ayahuasca experience that is VERY similar to using an actual hawaiian psychotria brew, far more powerful and all encompassing than using 70mg of freebase DMT or 70mg of freebase salt formed from fumarate or DMT salt made by dropping DMT freebase into coca cola or orange juice, etc.

 

What we are beginning to discover is this: The HPBCD "encapsulated and trapped DMT" theoretically could be forming enhanced modes of transport and delivery of DMT similar to how oral psychotria leaf gives an experience that is much more powerful and all encompassing and colorful than using normal plain DMT crystals. 
 
The experiences from the Hawaiian psychotria brew Ayahuasca tea are always +4 to +5 on the Shulgin scale for myself in over 70 Ayahuasca sessions, while multiple experiments with several people in the Clearlight sessions found the DMT extracted crystals gave only mild experiences (+3 max) even when using doses up to 100mg.
 
I myself even used doses of oral dmt crystals at doses from 70 to 120mg, and found them all mild as well (+3 Shulgin scale) compared to the VERY strong Hawaiian psychotria experiences (30 to 35 gram tea), just like mind-blowing Jungle Ayahuasca. 
 
Clearlight:
Experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, the leaf brews were very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.
However, the HPBCD complexed DMT seems to greatly alter the transport, absorption & digestion of DMT freebase crystals, resulting in powerful experiences sublingually so far, perhaps even resulting in oral powerful Ayahuasca similar to those brews using actual Hawaiian psychotria leaf in them. 
 

downwardsfromzero wrote:

Quote
This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here -thanks for posting.

This is indeed fascinating downwardsfromzero, thanks for that keen observation on the sacchardies, perhaps they do function similar to HPBCD? Note: this procedure will work with any freebase molecule that is poorly water soluble, it does not work with already water soluble compounds or salts.

Jagube said:

Quote
I've seen anecdotal reports of quidded D. cabrerana leaf being active.

Excellent observation Jagube.

69ron posted 8/12/2009:

Quote
People are getting pleasant DMT effects from sublingual Virola calophylla resin. I don't think it has that much DMT in it. So why does the resin work so well when DMT is so hard to use sublingually?

See my point? HPBCD DMT is very strong...I even used 30mg of it sublingually under tongue for 15 minutes and experienced rapid heartbeat & pulse, tryptamine body rush & buzz, dilated pupils, music sounded incredible, had cev's and open eyed euphoria and profound beauty. I took 250mg of tetrahydroharmine 1 hour earlier so it was more like a true Ayahuasca experience, but no nausea. 


Edited by tregar, 11 May 2021 - 05:26 PM.


#37 tregar

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 06:32 AM

I bought my 1kg tub from a supplier of sports supplements 12 years ago, as it was sold right along side pro-hormones which converted to testosterone in the body at a rate of 95% compared to testosterone alone, as you guessed, all pro-hormones like 4-androstenediol were all later banned.

I've been a weight lifter/bodybuilder since my early 20's when I was a full time lifeguard on the beach (love the water, water spirit)...currently my bodyweight is 220lbs at 12 percent bodyfat, follow a strict Palumbo high-protein keto-diet daily for years, 1.2 grams protein per lb of bodyweight per day. I get all my meals and 65 gram protein shake within an 8 hour window everyday (6am till 3pm), and fast after 3pm till I wake up the next day. This keeps my bodyfat low yet retains all the muscle. I run on the treadmill during the fasting period once I get home for 20 to 30 minutes at least 3 times a week. I take bcaa's before I hop on treadmill to keep any muscle from breaking down.

Even at this weight, I still find that 200mg of harmine completely inhibits the monoamine oxidase in my body...in all of my 70 Ayahuasca experiences using 200mg harmine + 220 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine over many years, I find the alkaloid amounts to completely activate 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria to the full extent.

Later tonight I will take 200mg harmine + 250mg tetrahydroharmine + 70mg HPBCD DMT (490mg HPBCD powder kneaded, crushed & stirred for 30 seconds into 70mg DMT on a spoon with many drops of water forming a sticky complex for the oral use)...I will report back. Several papers I have read indicate that HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals even when delivered orally out-performed normal oral versions of themselves by many factors.

I always mix everything together into a 2oz hot water tea with a dash of crushed vitamin C to dissolve the freebase harmine and THH, along with the HPBCD DMT, stir all together well in the hot water tea, just as the Shaman's do, take all together at exact same time, works incredibly well, far better than spacing out the DMT from the harmalas, I should know, I ran several experiments years ago, and the tea where ALL was mixed together outperformed all the other trials consistently.


Edited by tregar, 12 May 2021 - 07:01 AM.


#38 tregar

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 10:15 AM

Here is the HPBCD DMT solution ready to go for tonight
 
1. Materials: 70mg DMT for oral use, 490mg HPBCD, 1ml pipette, 0.25 to 0.35ml water
 
2. Made a 1:1 molar ratio (1:7 mg ratio) of host drug DMT to HPBCD by adding 70mg of DMT onto
spoon, added 490mg of HPBCD on top DMT, add 0.350 to 0.500 ml of water from pipette. For sublingual use don't overdo the drops, 0.250ml of water is plenty...if you accidentally add to much water then run a fan over spoon to evaporate some of it off.
 
Mash and stir it all together for 2 minutes, notice the sticky texture of it, remember only a portion of DMT molecule need be caught or trapped in HPBCD cone, so you may still see some DMT. Imagine the tail end of DMT sticking out of HPBCD cone in water solution after all dissolved if you could peer into the molecular size.
 
3. For oral use, add the spoon of HPBCD DMT water to 2oz of hot water (120 degree F), it will all dissolve instantly into a totally clear homogenous solution, take PH of water, it is safe to drink at ph=8 to 9.
 
4. Store in fridge till later, when ready heat water back up in a pyrex dish on stove to 110 degree F or so, add 200mg harmine + 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine, stir all together and consume in dreams, just the way the Shaman's do it, take it ALL mixed together, works incredibly well this way, have over 70 experiences with Ayahuasca over many years.
 
5. Several papers I have read indicated that HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals even when delivered orally out-performed normal oral versions of themselves by many factors.
 
With the Ayahuasca journey, she guides you to the existence of a higher spiritual plane...recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like profound pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.
 
Last pic: beautiful Shaman woman

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#39 tregar

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 05:15 PM

The experiment was a complete success...I took the 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg of HPBCD all kneaded and mixed on a spoon with 0.500 milliliter water. I read heating up the water drops beforehand will aid the mixing of HPBCD, so I will do that next time.
 
To the clear 2oz transparent water liquid HPBCD DMT, once heated up in pyrex pot on stove, was then added 200mg harmine + 250mg THH and also 150mg of pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve the freebase harmine + thh.
 
I gulped it down in one shot...there was virtually no taste! I think the HPBCD completely masked the taste of the nasty DMT...I was shocked...took it all together at same time at 3:30, I'm writing this 3 hours later.
 
It came on exactly like 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria! there was no difference between this and the leaf brew, again I was shocked...it gripped me powerfully, the walls in the room filled with honeycomb geometrics, neon colors were abundant, heavy tracers...the beauty all around me was infinite, beautiful CEV's and OEV...I was amazed to say the least.
 
In conclusion, I am impressed with this route of administration via sublingual or oral.

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#40 tregar

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Posted 12 May 2021 - 08:38 PM

P.S. update 8pm -- I just took sublingual 30mg DMT complexed to 210mg HPBCD on a spoon with less than 0.25ml (only 5 drops) of VERY HOT water this time--it all dissolved into a clear solution after mashing it with end of spoon for 1 minute--great effects held under tongue for 15 minutes--sweet taste --no burn!:) 


Edited by tregar, 13 May 2021 - 02:07 AM.





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