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New paper: HPBCD complexed DMT made 100% bioavailable sublingually under tongue


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#141 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 08:26 AM

If Norman ends up leaving Mycotopia because of this thread that no one reads, well then we've lost ourselves a very valuable asset over nothing. I encourage everyone involved to try to set that right, mods, people that were arguing with him. And Norman if you see this, lots of us want you here. Tregar if you see this, learn to take a fuckin hint dude
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#142 TVCasualty

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 09:05 AM

So just coming back to smell the milk….
You guys need to delete my last post if you’re going to delete the page long hissy fit that preceded it and the page long hissy fit that came after.
I’m still done here but I don’t need to go out looking like more of an asshole than I actually am.

 

Did I get the one you were referring to? And it didn't make you look like an asshole at all IMO.

 

And fWIW, the posts that disappeared from this thread were hidden not deleted. So if I get the wrong one (or two) I or another mod can undo it.

 

Your contributions to this site over the past 13 years have been considerable, and much appreciated by many. I would urge you to reconsider your departure as you're needed to help stem the tide of the kind of thing that's motivating your departure. It's a thankless task most of the time but I see it as a very important one that benefits countless people we'll never know or meet or hear about (consider the ratio of views to replies with some of these threads; most who learn from them never post a reply to them).


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#143 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 03:40 PM

Yeah people like me! Thanks to him and Phineas I was able to extract some fucking excellent dye

 

Hopefully this is not to repetitive to what has been said

 

I don't think you should worry at all Norman. I can't stand that reverse form of shaming or bullying or whatever the fuck that was. The guy is ignorant to what he is talking about and exercised a knee jerk reaction to any perceived slights, projecting his own insecurities in the form of anger on others. I wanted to respond earlier but felt like I would be piling on but now I realize my error. That is exactly how that stuff flourishes. Good men sit idly by and let their friends get attacked. (That's how James Gun got uncancelled, by his mates speaking out for him against cancel culture)

 

Pharmer is right the old guard understands that criticism is essential for a place like this to function effectively. A person's ability to handle said criticism is their own issue to deal with. I believe its called growth, remember what was the phrase "growing pains".

 

Sometimes when people fail to receive said kind messages we deploy other faithful methods that usually garner results. Such as sarcasm and comedy or what I like to call aggressive criticism. We need that regardless if some people agree with it or not. Myself I appreciate the difficult task of calling people out considering you have to deal with the manners police now.

 

I was searching out Aya last night and what do you know, I happened to find the same repetitive thread on more than a few forums and am forming a a decent Idea of where your coming from. Its the same thing, you get the copy and paste rather than asked and answered in those threads too. Your brain literally shuts off when it views the same thing repeated over and over again. It is impossible for anyone to even tell what the heck he is saying in that ocean of information. The one thread at the DMT nexus appeared to be the only constructive one to me considering others were chiming in, so you dont get beat over the head with the same copy and paste posts over and over.


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 21 July 2021 - 03:43 PM.

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#144 tregar

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 05:31 PM

Funny story for you. Pick you poison, either disgusting cactus drink or sublingual HPBCD DMT sting.
Either way, you don't win on mode of administration.
 
So I spent an hour and half cutting away 1500g of PC san pedro flesh from the core, peeling skin off, etc. does not even count the time spent boiling and re-boiling down to 6oz to drink.
 
My calculations were correct, only about 0.025% mescaline in the PC san pedro. From the 1500g wet flesh, got about 375mg of mescaline, and when I went to waterpark, and experienced it, yes indeed it felt just like 375mg of mescaline, enough to have a great time, no doubt, but not too overly strong.
 
The immensely bitter tea was absolutely disgusting to drink, and this is coming from a seasoned cactus tea drinking veteran (over 200 times in a decade)...it was so bad I had to take sips from it and stop, then restart another sip, took me 1/2 hour to finish off the 6oz. The taste was sooooo bad! I so miss bridgesii for outdoor trips to the waterpark.


#145 Chips101

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 05:41 PM

Hey the answere may have been given as I have not read all the posts to date having said that I ask this ...
As I have just finished a fantastic a/b  pull of 100 grams of mhrb with a yield of 1gram of perfect white crystals I am curious about the shelf life of your recent discovery. More over and beyond that, I recently "lost" a fairly large stash to degradation. If you could advise on both it would be greatly appreciated . I was thinking about using your process and "preloading" measured capsules if they were or could be stabilized for longer storage? Personally I am seeking a stable repeatable and somewhat predictable expectancy in turn making the "purpose" more attainable.

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#146 tregar

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Posted 09 August 2021 - 10:51 AM

Super summary, in conclusion:
 
1. HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca & oral trip report, even I have grown tired of the sublingual sting and only use it orally now.
2. On the importance of THH (tetrahydroharmine) 2nd highest ingredient in true Caapi-based traditional Ayahuasca.
3. Why DMT freebase and DMT salts used orally never seem to reach beyond a mild +3 while oral HPBCD DMT easily reaches a +5 Shulgin strength.
4. Cactus, my other love
 
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(1) HPBCD DMT AYAHUASCA:
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My 2 cents is that I have tetrahydroharmine I made myself that is 10 years old, and it still glows blue under blacklight when smeared on a plate using a wet cue tip, never had it degrade back to harmaline. It is very stable in my experience. This THH was stored at room temp in a drawer. Perhaps because at my job I work in quality control for many decades, that I take quality control seriously when it comes to chemistry. It's not hard to make sure all your harmaline converts 100% to THH, just follow instructions I posted at the dmt nexus in the pharmahuasca section on post #12 of HPBCD DMT thread. Anyone who is making THH for the public "for human consumption" like mentioned company sourced from China should imho make sure it is all converted, as any amount of harmaline left in it could be anywhere from 1mg per 10mg or more guestimate. At a 300mg dosage, there could be as much as 270mg THH mixed with 30mg of harmaline, which for me at least would cause nausea, trips to toilet, extreme sleepiness, re-bound insomnia the next day after harmaline worn off, etc. I've dosed harmaline before at all different amounts, it's not my favorite at any amount. It's quite possible the China made THH works just fine, and is reasonably pure, so give it a go.
 
My final statement is that I believe many will find the sublingual sting from HPBCD DMT too much to tolerate, therefore I suggest just using the HPBCD DMT orally (it is many factors stronger than dmt freebase and dmt salts used orally in my experience, and I've taken Ayahuasca over 80 times now) by combining it with 200-220mg harmine and an amount of THH around 150mg to begin in a simple 1oz hot water tea. The 1oz tea goes down in 1 gulp and there is virtually no taste at all, as the HPBCD helps mask the freebase encapsulated DMT quite well. There is also no nausea, it's super-strong and all-encompassing just like the Hawaiian leaf...it's very clean!Love
 
If the harmine and THH are in freebase form, then simply just add 100mg or so of crushed vitamin C to help them absorb into the hot water tea, simply consume this 1oz hot tea with mixed 3 ingredients all at the exact same time just as the Shaman's do. I have had extremely powerful experiences with zero nausea this way that are identical to using from 30 to 40g of hawaiian psychotria, which has become extinct over the last 3 years due to diversion to the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America. I have found this tea to be at zero nausea whereas the psychotria tea can be heavy on the stomach for some time while it absorbs.
 
My schedule is having a PC san pedro trip once a month since it is so expensive, and using the Ayahuasca tea x twice a month the other times I trip. Even I have grown tired of the sublingual sting and migrated back to the harmine + thh + HPBCD DMT all dissolved into a 1oz hot water oral tea.
 
My wife is still able to talk to me this way and I can respond and not have to take a "vow of silence like a Monk" for 15 minutes waiting for the sublingual HPBCD DMT to absorb. Laughing
 
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70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD oral Ayahuasca report, +5 Shulgin scale
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
The HPBCD complexed DMT experiment was a success...I took the 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg of plain HPBCD all kneaded/scraped/crushed using end of another spoon...and mixed on a spoon for 2 minutes with 0.500 milliliter of VERY HOT near boiling water (around 10 drops of water). What I do is heat up a bit of water in a coffee cup in microwave & draw up drops of it using pipette. I read using hot water speeds & aids the mixing of the HPBCD to host drug.
 
Use 1:7 gram ratio DMT to HPBCD or 1:8 gram ratio if using the more common 2-hydroxy PBCD, this keeps the HPBCD to DMT at a 1:1 molar ratio. You can order 1 kilogram of the plain HPBCD from China for price of 4 movie tickets, it will last a lifetime for you and your friends.
 
I added the 0.5ml spoon full HPBCD DMT solution to 2oz of 120 degree hot water...this then immediately turned into 100% transparent water when it hit the hot liquid in the pyrex cup...This was stored in fridge until use...then when I was ready, the 2oz clear transparent liquid HPBCD DMT water solution, once re-heated up in pyrex pot on stove, to this was then added 200mg harmine + 250mg THH and also 150mg of pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve the freebase harmine + thh.
 
I gulped it down in one shot...there was virtually no taste! I think the HPBCD completely masked the taste of the nasty DMT...I was shocked...took it all together at same time at 3:30, I'm writing this 3 hours later.
 
It came on exactly like 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria! there was no difference between this and the leaf brew, again I was shocked...it gripped me powerfully, heavy tryptamine buzz and high frequency. The THH already imparts a body frequency buzz + DMT tryptamine buzz = amazing amplified body frequency.
 
A vibrating neon colored fortress like a magnetic field surrounded me in the room, it shined off of every object similar to a UV blacklight glow...this neon visual vibration appeared all around me, given off by everything around me. The vibrational frequency field reminded me of the tractor beam in Star Trek when they would transport. I've experienced this same phenomena with past journeys involving 30 to 35 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria...but never with plain freebase DMT or DMT salts before, only again with this HPBCD DMT.
 
I had to remain in one spot sitting as it was so strong for 1 hour straight, the walls in the room filled with 3-D ish like honeycomb orange & brown geometrics that appeared to bulge slightly off the surface, like the inside of a bee hive, neon colors were abundant, heavy tracers...the beauty all around me was infinite, beautiful CEV's (spinning and dancing or constantly morphing geometrics) and OEV...I was amazed to say the least.
 
In conclusion, I am impressed with this route of administration via sublingual or oral.
 
During the oral Ayahuasca journey (200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD) for the first hour, all objects glowed or shined as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
1. Part 10 of the DMT nexus paper in the pharmahuasca section under "HPBCD DMT" paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.
 
2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.
 
3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.
 
4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.
 
5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.
 
6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.
 
7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.
 
professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.
 
At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper.
 
300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself:
 
At 9pm on one night, took another 100mg of THH, for a total of 350mg of THH for afternoon & night, before I fell asleep, I watched dream-like monochrome imagery (usually always in green or blue for me) as the THH was still working...for around 45 minutes I viewed mind-blowing vistas--grand architecture and cities, a bookshelf full of ancient books, a view of the gardens in front of what looked like Versailles, France.
 
I traveled down a street in Midieval period where I saw beautiful women walking along the street, I could make out the houses & markets along the street. Many of these visions are like slow speed movies being played, way beyond 4k, highly detailed...true Ayahuasca visions...this always happens when I take at least 300mg or more of tetrahydroharmine during the late afternoon/early night. This is one of the best parts of the journey imho.
 
I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for 2 hours...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.
 
Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of her remarkable visionary properties. She is an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, she is what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and CEV dream-like visionary power.
 
I agree that 300mg THH in Caapi is just as visual as 100mg harmaline (as reported in TIHKAL), but without the nausea and dizziness, but it's not especially visual until say 250 to 300mg, then it gives one 1.5 to 2 hours of incredible closed eye realistic visions, this places it very high on the "psychedelic periodic table" for visions compared to just about any other entheogen.
 
It's like entering a university, she teaches you for hours with not only sequential visions one after another, but visions seen in continuous slow and high speed movies. She tells you a story for a long period. There is a theme to it all each time, the beautiful visions never repeat session to session. I only rarely go beyond 300mg THH, as a little dizziness sets in above 300mg for sure. No dizziness at 250mg, only a tiny bit at 300mg.
 
Several weeks ago, after drinking 300mg tetrahydroharmine, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away.
 
I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds, even the lost city of Atlantis, I was taken in for a bird's eye view, zooming in from way above to all the way down into the city center.
 
Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on forever with Caapi, I can recline and watch for 2 hours or more the visions, the visions are quite powerful for the first 45 minutes. You can take additional THH hours later to bring back the visions again for another 45 minutes, the doses are additive.
 
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(3) HPBCD DMT outperforms freebase DMT and DMT salts used orally in Ayahuasca tea by many factors
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 120mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.
 
After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! Most of the experiences were +4 to +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.
 
This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.
 
Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.
 
The HPBCD complexed DMT used orally in an Ayahuasca tea is VERY STRONG in comparison, it is just like the Hawaiian psychotria, all encompassing & super strong. It is more potent, colorful, and clear, just like the actual leaf. The DMT freebase and DMT salts are inferior in comparison to HPBCD DMT.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4) CACTUS (my other love):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
PC san pedro tea is great and all, but the cactus is quite weak (and expensive) and does take the boiling of 1800g of flesh (breakdown: 5.3 lbs cactus = 454g x 5.3 = 2406g flesh which after de-cored or removed from around the core = 2406g x 75% = 1800g of flesh left that can be boiled down to a 6oz tea, no need to remove wax layer from cut up chunks, just throw chunks in the water as is). 1800g flesh x 0.25% approx mescaline = 450mg mescaline. When 250mg of THH is added 1 hour later after taking the tea, it feels like around 700mg of mescaline. Confirmed this all with an incredible trip posted a few pages back. Strongest I've tripped in a very long while for over 10 hours. I've used the PC san pedro tea several other times over the summer, each time tripping VERY HARD and confirmed it is indeed approx 0.25% mescaline in my estimation at different tea amounts, most of those using 1500g de-cored flesh (breakdown = 4.5lbs = 454g x 4.5 = 2043g with core, 2043g x 75% = 1500g decored flesh for boiling down to tea), which each time felt like 375mg mescaline on it's own.
 
The 6oz concentrated hot PC san pedro tea imparts a very mild nauseating feeling to the stomach for the first 45 minutes while it absorbs, then is gone after that. Bridgesii tea at any dose never used to weigh my stomach down for 45 minutes, but PC san pedro tea I've noticed is a bit different, I just sit there and deal with it, and glad 45 minutes later when the very mild nausea feeling is gone. Keep in mind I have an iron clad stomach (been drinking cactus tea over 200 times over many years) and filter my tea really well after I boil it down by pouring it thru a cotton ball in a funnel which gets the nauseating particles to the stomach out, but still it's just the nature of the tea when you drink it to expect some form of mild feeling in the stomach until it is fully absorbed.
 
Stay true to yourself. Peace, Love & music.
 
Pic1: my yearly morning glory grow. Yes, I trip hard on fresh from the vine seeds, which I vacuum pack freeze using a foodsaver to keep high potency indefinitely. See post #8 of my dmt nexus pharmahuasca HPBCD DMT post. I extract into 2oz just opened cold sherry wine high in acetaldehyde. The Mayans and Aztecs also extracted into alcoholic beverages as they discovered this would extract the 5 different stimulating LSD-like alkaloids, this is covered in post #8 as well.
 
Pic2: morning glory easy extraction with materials list, all steps illustrated with pics, covered on post #8 in my dmt nexus pharmahuasca HPBCD DMT post. 2 bridgesii cactus seen as well, but I now trip using PC san pedro, as bridgesii has become just too rare, and I've tripped extremely hard on PC san pedro tea (yes, you can trip very hard on PC san pedro so long as you use enough) for over 10 hours!
 
Pic3: The late great DM Turner on mescaline, I agree with everything he saids, have taken cactus tea over 200 times over course of many years, and Caapi-based Ayahuasca over 80 times.
 
Pic4: 2 step method for making HPBCD complexed DMT, many factors stronger than DMT freebase or DMT salts when used orally in Ayahuasca tea, easy to reach a Shulgin +5 strength, while DMT freebase and salts (70 to 120mg) never seem to reach beyond a mild +3 in over a dozen experiments.
 
Pic5: 158mg THH is the average amount found in one cup of Caapi-based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening by some more advanced members, they are consuming 300mg of THH.
 
 
zzz yearly morning glory grow.JPG
 
zzz cactus and fresh morning glory seeds from garden.JPG
 
zzz 303.JPG
 
zzz 158mg is the average amount of THH found in one cup Ayahuasca tea.JPG
 
zzz Gayle Highpine on becoming a Shaman.JPG
 
zzz DM Turner on mescaline.JPG
 

Edited by tregar, 09 August 2021 - 01:53 PM.


#147 tregar

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Posted 11 August 2021 - 07:41 AM

Be sure to use your muscles to crush, mash & scrape the HPBCD into the freebase DMT back and forth really hard in the 10 drops near boiling hot water using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, as mixing or stirring alone is not good enough. Kneading is how scientist prepare these complexes, see pic7 Ofloxacin study. 
 
You can only use DMT freebase, only the freebase is able to complex or trap itself inside the inner hydrophobic (water-fearing) HPBCD cavity. 
 
Pic7: Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.  :wub:
 
Downwardsfromzero responded in The Ayahuasca thread:
tregar wrote:
Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.
 
Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.
"This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting."
 
HPBCD.JPG
 
-----------------------------------------------
(5) Want to extend the journey?
-----------------------------------------------
 
After the oral Ayahuasca wears off, and you feel you want to re-visit or extend the journey, then that would be a good time to take some HPBCD DMT sublingually under the tongue for 15 minutes. This way you don't have to take more oral harmine again to re-activate the HPBCD DMT. Additional doses of oral harmine can weigh down the body introducing some nausea and dizziness.
 
I like to pre-prepare a 90mg DMT dose complexed to 630mg HPBCD (use 720mg is using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 10 drops boiling hot water on a spoon and suck up this 0.5ml (10 drop) complexed solution into a 3ml syringe (100 x 3ml pack of syringes dirt cheap on-line) for storage in room or freezer (defrosts quickly at room temp) and squirt this under tongue when ready to re-dose. This gives me +5 Shulgin strength level.
 
This sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dose will bring back the Ayahuasca for another 1.5 hour, especially since the THH has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours, and the 200mg or so of harmine you took earlier will keep the overall MAO defenses lowered in the body for a good 5 to 6 hours, so feel free to re-dose more sublingual HPBCD DMT at least two more times total for the evening if you feel up to it. It will still work as strong as the original oral HPBCD DMT dose. This way you can get 4.5 hours or more total strong journey trip time. I like to do it this way.
----------------------------------------------------------
 
Part 18: (page 11, post #207) https://www.dmt-nexu...ts&t=96861&p=11
 
Super summary, use the HPBCD DMT in your 1oz hot water Ayahuasca tea for a +5 Shulgin experience. If you need something to print out to follow, these several pages would be it.
 
Super summary, in conclusion:
 
1. HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca & oral trip report, even I have grown tired of the sublingual sting and only use it orally now except for re-dose, see part 5.
2. On the importance of THH (tetrahydroharmine) 2nd highest ingredient in true Caapi-based traditional Ayahuasca.
3. Example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions.
4. Why DMT freebase and DMT salts used orally never seem to reach beyond a mild +3 while oral HPBCD DMT easily reaches a +5 Shulgin strength.
5. Want to extend the journey?
6. Cactus, my other love

Edited by tregar, 11 August 2021 - 02:03 PM.


#148 GORF

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Posted 11 August 2021 - 07:47 AM

I actually read most of that answer to Chips question.

Now I've got copy pasta indigestion.

Like a delicious spicy food I keep coming back for more and then step away wondering why I would do that to myself.


That is all
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#149 Chips101

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Posted 20 August 2021 - 05:24 PM

I actually read most of that answer to Chips question.

Now I've got copy pasta indigestion.

Like a delicious spicy food I keep coming back for more and then step away wondering why I would do that to myself.


That is all

Still looking for a more specific answere. Maybe better to write up a new topic and post?

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#150 tregar

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Posted 22 August 2021 - 05:50 PM

New discovery 8/22/21 for re-dosing:
 
Suppose you took 180mg harmine fb (2.0mg/kg is a strong activating dose) + 150mg THH fb + 90mg HPBCD DMT (630mg plain HPBCD complexed to 90mg freebase DMT first made on a spoon then added to tea mix) all mixed into 1oz hot water tea Ayahuasca for your 1st dose like I love to do, only I use more THH, usually 250mg like I did last night. 
 
Note: whenever I use this home-made pharmahuasca/Ayahuasca there is zero nausea...and it feels identical in effects to around 600 to 700mg of mescaline, beautiful beyond belief, and music is exceptional sounding, enhanced just like strong bridgesii cactus tea. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" and actresses on TV look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves, just like high dose cactus tea, but only if you include the THH. 
 
To totally avoid sublingual sting re-dosing: You may find as I discovered last night at the 3 hour point only 90mg of oral harmine is needed to activate another oral dose of HPBCD DMT all over again, for another 1.5 hour of strong effects with super-long afterglow. I recently found this out last night, and I'm overjoyed as now I can TOTALLY AVOID THE SUBLINGUAL STING. 
 
For the 2nd dose: simply mix/crush 630mg of plain HPBCD (use 720mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) complexed to 90mg DMT freebase in 10 drops boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug on a spoon using the end of another spoon to crush and mix it all together for 2 minutes, add the spoon full of HPBCD DMT to 1 oz of hot water (or 1oz black coffee, what I like to do) in a coffee mug, add 90mg of harmine freebase, add some crushed vitamin C to help the 90mg harmine absorb into the water should it be in freebase form, mix it well for a few seconds, and drink it down...this will result in another 1.5 hour of +5 Shulgin strength strong extended journey with super long afterglow. 
 
Not only does the HPBCD help mask the taste of the nasty freebase DMT, but it is several factors stronger and all-encompassing than normal DMT freebase and DMT salts used orally, it is identical in my experience to using from 30 to 40g of potent Hawaiian psychotria. There is a world of difference. 
 
THIS IS GREAT if you love long strong trips (4.5 hours) like I do and is due to the fact that you still have 90mg of harmine active in your system since harmine has around a 3 hour half life, since you took 180mg oral dose the first go-around. Thus 90mg still active + 90mg 2nd dose harmine = 180mg. Thus 90mg harmine is plenty to re-activate a 2nd dose of oral HPBCD DMT for the evening. No need to take additional THH ever, as the 1st dose of THH you took in the beginning has a 10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours...it will last all night long. 
 
Some may find as little as 50mg oral harmine is all that is necessary to re-activate a 2nd dose of oral HPBCD DMT, as you still have 90mg harmine active from 3 hours ago + 50mg 2nd dose oral harmine = 140mg total harmine, which is the threshold harmine amount (1.5mg/kg) needed for a 200lb person to activate oral HPBCD DMT. 120mg is the threshold harmine amount (1.5mg/kg) needed for a 176lb person to activate oral HPBCD DMT. 
 
IMPORTANT Note: I use higher doses of DMT just like Julian Palmer writes about in post #217, these doses we both agree are higher than what Jonathan Ott uses. So please start lower if you are new to this. Please follow the DMT dosing chart below from Jonathan Ott, also keep in mind HPBCD DMT is much stronger than normal freebase DMT and DMT salts used orally. 
 
Pic 1: Human pharmacology of Ayahuasca analogue chart from Ott's "Ayahuasca Analogues"
 
Pic 2: redson mini 7oz stainless steel water bottle holds my 1 oz Super Ayahuasca coffee, keeps hot for a very long time, for when I want to travel and take her out in nature, zero nausea. 
 
Human pharmacology of Ayahuasca analogue.JPG
 
mini 7 oz stainless steel water bottle.JPG
 


#151 Norman

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Posted 23 August 2021 - 04:42 PM

Well shit Chips, if that didn’t answer your question I don’t know what will, but if you want to start a new thread, I’m sure our friend would be happy to cut and paste this one into it.

#152 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 02:23 PM

Wait I didn't get that can you repeat it?


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#153 tregar

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 02:34 PM

Complete summary here:

https://www.dmt-nexu...g=posts&t=97557

HPBCD DMT Pharmahuasca diary (8-24-2021 on-wards)

(1) 200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg HPBCD DMT oral 2oz tea report, +5 Shulgin strength
(2) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH)
(3) Example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions
(4) HPBCD DMT outperforms freebase DMT and DMT salts used orally in Ayahuasca tea by many factors
(5) Each post after 1st post will contain a new journey trip report as I experience it every 1 week to 2 weeks. Time each dose taken, dosing amount, re-dosing amount & experience details.



#154 Norman

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 03:22 PM

Will you be continuing to include pervy pictures of young women at the water park?
And shots of random household objects?
And pictures of people that aren’t the people you’re talking about?
And a bunch of stuff you just make up to get attention?
Because frankly, without that, I might as well stay gone.
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#155 tregar

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 08:51 AM

2 minute formed HPBCD DMT liquid very bioavailable sublingually under tongue & outperforms DMT salts orally by many factors in personal trials, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca.
 
 
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
part 10: One way to make tetrahydroharmine
part 11: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask
 
Update: 8-24-2021:
HPBCD DMT tetrahydroharmine Ayahuasca, part II
 
HPBCD DMT tetrahydroharmine Ayahuasca, part II (8-24-2021 on-wards)
 
(1) 200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg HPBCD DMT oral 2oz tea report, +5 Shulgin strength
(2) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH)
(3) Example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions
(4) HPBCD DMT outperforms freebase DMT and DMT salts used orally in Ayahuasca tea by many factors
(5) Each post after the 2nd post will contain a new journey trip report as experienced every 1 week to 2 weeks. Time each dose taken, dosing amount, re-dosing amount & experience details.
 
Why do all this you ask? These high-dose profoundly beautiful trips are identical in effects to me as taking from 600 to 700mg of the infinitely beautiful mescaline.  :wub:  The trips feel like "super-mescaline", but are dirt cheap in comparison to the rare and expensive cactus.
 
Here is 2.4 grams brand new DMT extracted from 170g bark for use in some more HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca experiments. See post #19 here: HPBCD DMT very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca - Pharmahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus if you need help on how to do this. Always get from 2.4 to 2.5 grams from 170g bark. I really love this orangish/yellowish colored DMT, it is very potent and other-worldly.
 
zzz 2.5g new orange and yellow dmt for use in HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca experiments.JPG

Edited by tregar, 27 August 2021 - 10:18 AM.


#156 tregar

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Posted 02 September 2021 - 08:09 AM

Continuation:
 
Update: 8-24-2021:
Oral Tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT journeys, very similar to mescaline
 
 
These high-dose profoundly beautiful trips are identical in effects to me as taking from 600 to 700mg of the infinitely beautiful mescaline. Love The trips feel like "super-mescaline", :wub:  but are dirt cheap in comparison to the rare and expensive cactus.


#157 tregar

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 11:10 AM

Post continued here with pics: https://mycotopia.ne...r-to-mescaline/

 
Experience #45: 9.24.2021 Friday night Journey.
 
300mg oral THH, 30mg sublingual HPBCD harmine, 110mg sublingual HPBCD DMT


#158 tregar

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 06:52 AM

On safety: I am not worried about using HPBCD sublingually, as noted earlier we are using doses that are very similar to what chemist Patrick Arnold sold for 10 years as cyclodiol and cyclonordiol by his sports supplement company: Ergopharm. He made millions selling his very effective sublingual HPBCD pro-hormone supplements until they were made illegal 9 years later, never any complaints of hearing loss. I used his sublingual HPBCD pro-hormone supplements for many years.

I had my hearing checked after using this stuff 44 times (1 original dose + 2 re-doses each evening) after 6 months of use and still my hearing was excellent. We are using very, very low doses: 770mg HPBCD compared to 4000 to 8000mg/kg in cats and mice, yes, that is 4000 to 8000 mg per kilogram injections, again we are not using anywhere near the insane mega-doses like they were using to treat Niemann–Pick disease in the studies.

Niemann-Pick disease type C (NPC) is a rare progressive genetic disorder characterized by an inability of the body to transport cholesterol and other fatty substances (lipids) inside of cells. This leads to the abnormal accumulation of these substances within various tissues of the body, including brain tissue. The accumulation of these substances damages the affected areas.

I also had a full complete labwork done, and it was excellent as well, liver and kidney functions completely normal. Doctor was very happy, all in the green, no red.

I also prefer the sublingual route, as I find it many times stronger than oral, it's much more potent than taken orally, and it comes on in only half the time of an oral dose (22 minutes instead of 45 minutes) yet it still lasts as long as an oral dose: 90 minutes. It's easy to achieve +5 Shulgin level strength using the powerful sublingual HPBCD DMT doses.



#159 tregar

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 06:55 AM

Have used orange fluffy dmt (30 year old plus trees seen in post pics above) and the below very fine crystalline powder = yellowish/brownish dmt from plain bark (regular younger trees) both with great results.

However, I noticed the younger inexpensive bark that forms the fine powdery yellowish/brownish crystalline powder to complex very fast, perhaps because it complexes so well to the HPBCD--it's also extremely potent. The powder does not seem to retain any amount of "wetness" or oil when dried at all, very dry & fine powder. After I scrape up the dried powder, will further crush with razor blades and back of a spoon at least twice, forms a very fine super dry crystalline powder (almost like dust) as seen in pic below, very nice.

Interestingly, the cheaper younger 170g bark yielded the same 2.2 grams as the older more expensive 30 year old 170g bark.

Also, the 25 to 30mg freebase harmine used sublingually does not need to be complexed to HPBCD. Just use it as it. Your preference, you can complex it or not, your choice.

The sublingual 30mg harmine freebase should be taken at EXACT SAME TIME as the sublingual HPBCD DMT, works VERY well! No need to separate them. Use them both under tongue at exact same time. This works extremely well! It's the only way I use it from now, both together at same time. Talk about extremely powerful!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT REFERENCE NOTES AND HOW TO:

HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin

Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

How to complex harmine freebase: 30mg harmine fb is complexed to 180mg plain HPBCD in 3 drops boiling hot water, mixed and mashed for 2 minutes, place bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere, hold in sublingual mucosa, it all dissolves in around 5 minutes, no taste as the HPBCD will mask the harmine taste.

Again, you don't have to complex the harmine fb to HPBCD, you can just use it "as is" your choice.

Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.

Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.

110mg fresh just extracted DMT is put onto a spoon, covered with (1:7g ratio to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio) 770mg plain HPBCD, if using instead the 2-HPBCD, then use a 1:8g weight ratio or 880mg 2-HPBCD in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Then 12 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug or pyrex pot from stove is added, mix, mash & scrape it all back and forth on the spoon, using the end of another spoon really hard using your muscles for 2 minutes, then pull end off 3ml syringe and backfill it, in other words, let the spoon's liquid contents pour down the open syringe top, then replace push stopper. The syringe full of 0.6ml (12 drop complex) should be storage in a freezer, keeps the fresh potency forever, the DMT protected within the HPBCD cavity, and frozen solid, never oxidizes this way, stays as fresh as the day you extract it.

On the day after 2.2 grams of bark is extracted from 170g, while listening to music to help the time pass, I go ahead and pre-prepare 20 of these syringes, each with a 110mg HPBCD DMT dose, takes around an hour. Then freeze all of them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOURNEY #46, 10-4-2021 monday night, been 10 days since taking anything.

MOST INTENSE +5 Shulgin level journey in 5 months

This time for the first time, used finely powdered (almost like dust) yellowish/brownish crystalline extract from the younger cheaper bark, as seen in photo below.

1) 6:30 = 300mg oral pure THH in a capsule taken 45 minutes before
2) 6:45 = took 30mg freebase harmine under tongue along with 110mg HPBCD DMT under tongue at exact same time, all dissolved in 15 minutes
3) 8:30 = 2nd re-dose = 30mg freebase harmine under tongue along with 110mg HPBCD DMT
4) 10:15 = 3rd re-dose = 30mg freebase harmine under tongue along with 110mg HPBCD DMT

Experienced an incredible 4.5 hour journey tonight, felt like 700mg of mescaline. Super-long afterglow beyond the 4.5 hours. Love Love Love

with 2 subsequent 110mg HPBCD DMT re-doses every 1.5 hour, always adding in the sublingual 30mg freebase harmine each time I took the 110mg HPBCD DMT under tongue.

Mind-blowing neon colored fast moving cev spinning, morphing and dancing geometrics, open eyed beauty phenomenal, pupil dilation maxed out each time I took a sublingual dose, pupils like silver dollars, music enhancement super incredible.

All I had to do was close my eyes for an instant and watch the fast moving geometries, just a playground of images with eyes closed with every color of the rainbow, with open eyed the walls filled with beautiful neon colors, alternating slowly from pink to green to yellow...most intense experience yet.

The 30mg harmine fb TAKEN AT THE EXACT SAME TIME under tongue as the 110mg HPBCD DMT under tongue, all dissolved extremely well in 15 minutes or less...colored specs floating all throughout the air and rainbow auras surrounding everything, actresses on television looked like dazzling, glowing super colorful cartoon caricatures of themselves, immense open eyed beauty, so heavenly. Diamondlike in the beauty, sparkling and transcendent, like a field of jewels.

Deep head space, mescaline like euphoria for the full 4.5 hours, powerful spiritual insights. Afterglow past midnight strong.

Moving from one room to another felt like different worlds...zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety...phenomenal experience.

This is the ONLY WAY I will take this from now....300mg oral THH of course 45 minutes early as usual, taking sublingual 30mg harmine freebase AT EXACT SAME TIME as the sublingual 110mg HPBCD DMT.

Pic 1: 2.2 grams fine crystalline yellowish/brownish powder dmt extracted from 170g younger cheaper bark, very nice dry powder quality, complexes very well to the HPBCD, extreme potency.

Pic 2: Something new learned: instead of sucking up complex from off spoon into syringe, simply pull top off syringe, and "backfill it" by pouring spoon contents down open syringe top, then replace push stopper, much easier. Notice syringe tip caps (1000 for dirt cheap) prevent leakage, store syringes in freezer, to defrost, dunk syringe in mug of 1 minute microwaved hot water, becomes a homogenous flowing liquid once again, pull out of mug after 1 minute & shoot warm liquid under tongue, hold for 15 minutes.

Pic 3: Journey #46, 10-4-2021, 300mg pure THH taken in a capsule 45 minutes before, then 30mg harmine fb held under tongue at exact same time as 110mg HPBCD DMT held under tongue, re-dosing two more times with same every 1.5 hour, super strength 4.5 hour experience, like 700mg mescaline, +5 Shulgin level strength for 4.5 hours.

 

Journey #46.PNG



#160 tregar

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Posted 07 October 2021 - 04:15 PM

 
Detail update:
 
What I like to do is defrost a syringe by dunking it in a mug of 1 minute microwaved water, pull top plunger out of syringe so hot air pressure will not build up, after 1 minute take syringe out, replace plunger on syringe, pull off bottom syringe cap and drop or shoot the desired amount of dosage onto a spoon, add in the 30mg of harmine fb to the spoon, mix it all together with a toothpick, then place bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere, hold under tongue in the sublingual mucosa for 15 minutes, phenomenal strength! 
 
I have tried taking the harmine fb sublingually around 10 to 15 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD DMT several times, but the experience is MANY TIMES stronger when you take the sublingual harmine and sublingual HPBCD DMT at the exact same time under tongue, similar to how Ayahuasca is prepared, as the Shaman's do it, all at once. 
 

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