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The Grand Experiment


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#1 MaharishiTohotoho

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 01:38 AM

Me and an old friend have been talking and planning for the last 6+ months on how we can create a gourmet mushroom company. It matches our passions perfectly and we both are in the right point in our life to try to become independent from the machine. We both know very little about mycology, so we have decided to teach ourselves by creating our own classroom.

 

I have obtained is a very small multi-floor home. It is an old, somewhat shitty, home. This property has been obtained for the express purpose of studying mycology- there will be no residents. However, we will end up practically living here so the ground floor has been equipped with beds and has a small kitchen/living room. Upstairs we got two bedrooms and a bathroom. One bedroom (B2) is large and is about 16X16 ft. Will use B2 for late stage/harvesting/drying. The other bedroom (B1) will serve as our “clean room” (I use this term very loosely). We will use B1 to incubate and experiment.

 

What makes the “clean room” possible for B1? Well, it has a unique entrance- when I toured this property, I really had to conceal my excitement LOL. So, when you are in the hallway you first enter into a small bathroom(Prep room or P1). Inside P1 is another door which leads to B1. Here is a pic to help understand layout, the doors and bathtub/sink/toilet layout is accurate, but they are much closer together. (Please note the room sizes are closer to 8X8 and I did a rough approximation of how we will setup fans /tubs/etc):foto_no_exif.jpg

 

We will use one of these on the door between P1 and B2. We will have full body clean suits and ventilator masks. We will store these in a plastic garment bag between uses. (Would we need to PC the clean suits first and also between uses?) We will first enter the bathroom and derobe and sponge with alcohol/water solution. Then we will take clean suits out of storage and put those on. Then we will sponge again with the suits on. Then we will spray a fuck ton of Lysol in the air before opening the door. We will eventually get another air purifier for the bathroom in a few weeks but that’s not in the budget right now.  Is all of that overkill?

 

 

 

We are thinking of using monotubs within this room. Why you may ask? We want to be able to segregate our experiments to some degree within the room- we are worried about the multitude of variables introduced by having different strains/experiments in open air. We are hoping simple tubs with poly fill holes will suffice to mitigate any unknowns. Thoughts on this? Is it a pointless effort and should we focus the entire room towards one or two experiments/strains at a time?

 

Our monotub design will be simplistic. We will drill 4 holes- each 2 inches. Stuff with polyfill. We will also slap one or two of these puppies on the inside of the lid to guide growth upwards. Will turn lights on manually for each tub as needed. 

 

Our main concern is how to maintain proper humidity in the tubs with one centralized humidifier. We are hoping to spend about $300-$600 on a humidifier that we can plug and play. We will hook up humidifier to something like this . If anybody has a similar device but with multiple sensor hookups please let me know. Would be nice to have a humidity sensor hanging in the room and another inside a tub or two. We have no desire to segregate humidity system to each tub as we need to learn how whole room humidity works.

 

Another concern is the exothermic nature of shroom production and the gaseous byproducts of growth.  We think two box fans and an air filter that has a pre-filter and a HEPA filter should do the trick. This will also help with contams. If the room is getting too hot we thought one of these might be worth testing out. Thoughts on this system?  The room will be ~80 degrees Fareinheit without any air conditioning during peak summer months-occasionally hitting the mids 90s. Is this too high? 

 

Another concern is humidity and damage to the house. To mitigate this we plan on using a staple gun and 11 Mil Brown Tarp. We will staple the tarp to the walls, floors, and ceiling. We hope this tarp combined with the air filter will mitigate any contams from the windows/walls etc. The room has two small windows and an overhead fan. Curious if the existing fan should be sanitized and wrapped since it has holes above it where the wiring comes in. Or is it worth sanitizing frequently and using to create more air flow?

 

Also with this tarp method how concerned should we be with mold growing between the tarps and the wall? If mold grows inside the wall I don’t really give a shit. We will dump this property in a year. I will be covering the air vents with an extra layer of protection before the tarp goes up.

 

Our concern here isn’t stealth/speed or necessarily accessibility for ingredients/tools etc. Our goal is to work our way up to commercial growing. So we are willing to source hard to find things if they are worth it. We are willing to wait and invest time into things if this will help Return On Investment (ROI).  

 

We plan on initially growing Psilocybe Cubensis. It seems to be a good way to learn a lot about mycology and there is so much existing info. Additionally, it is easier to create early stage ROI with Cubensis Prints, Syringes, etc. Using this ROI and knowledge gained we can expand into large scale Oyster, Lions Mane production.

 

For our first attempt I have purchased Bulk Substrate and Spawn Bags  from North Spore. They were fantastic BTW highly highly recommend them. Got syringes from Insatiable Wonders of the Unknowns. Got APE Revert, B+, Golden Teacher, and AA+ Leucistic.  While we have one of those starting, we will start creating our own bulk substrate and spawn bags. I have connected with a local horse farmer and have unlimited free poop. Thinking of getting this Amish Pressure Cooker- thoughts on this pressure cooker?   

 

Ok that is my information dump. I will keep you guys updated as we go. In the very early stages here we are still constructing clean room. I really wanted to put everything out there so I can get feedback early.  Some more info on this post- I am sure there is more stuff I’m forgetting. Any and all feedback is welcome and respected. 

 



#2 Sidestreet

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 04:41 AM

 

Then we will spray a fuck ton of Lysol in the air before opening the door. We will eventually get another air purifier for the bathroom in a few weeks but that’s not in the budget right now.  Is all of that overkill?

 

 

I don't know whether the fuck ton of Lysol is necessary or desirable for entering the fruiting room.  I'd be concerned about the effect it would have on the mushrooms and on myself.  I've never worked on the scale of an entire room, but if the fruiting room will only contain colonized substrates, the air purifier unit should do enough for you, especially if you're being clean entering the room and taking care with what you're bringing in to it.

 

 

 

we are worried about the multitude of variables introduced by having different strains/experiments in open air. We are hoping simple tubs with poly fill holes will suffice to mitigate any unknowns.

 

 

This sounds fine, but be on the lookout for any contaminant molds and remove the infected tub as soon as you see any.

 

 

 

Another concern is the exothermic nature of shroom production and the gaseous byproducts of growth.  We think two box fans and an air filter that has a pre-filter and a HEPA filter should do the trick. This will also help with contams. If the room is getting too hot we thought one of these might be worth testing out. Thoughts on this system?  The room will be ~80 degrees Fareinheit without any air conditioning during peak summer months-occasionally hitting the mids 90s. Is this too high?

 

That really is too hot for Cubensis.  

 

 

 

My brutally honest overall feedback:

 

1. I think you're front-loading a whole lot of planning for never having grown mushrooms.  Your friend sounds knowledgeable about biology in general and you seem to have some grasp of what you need to set up, but it might be a good idea to get growing ASAP, if you haven't already.

 

2. If you're going to grow a house full of Cubensis and not have anyone living in it, how's that going to look to the neighbors?  The guy who owns What the Fungus has a story about how he turned his whole apartment into a grow--edibles only--and the police showed up, probably because it looked like he was running a drug lab.  And he was even living there at the time.  I support your ultimate goal, and hope that psilocybin is legalized some day. But if you happen to be in the U.S. or most of the rest of the world, even in a locality that has decriminalized psilocybin, the feds will still go out of their way to take down a whole house full of mushrooms.  Would it be better just to go straight for the edibles and medicinals?


Edited by Sidestreet, 23 April 2021 - 04:42 AM.

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#3 MaharishiTohotoho

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 03:57 PM

Thank you for the feedback seriously!!! And no I need brutally honest and I love it. I work in operations so all I deal with a lot of brutal honesty. Also because of my operations and logistics background I really do over plan things. Additionally, we were supposed to have been started spawning by now. However, my partners mother found out she had terminal cancer at the end of march and that kind of distended the schedule since he was unavailable for a bit dealing with that and I wasn't knowledgeable enough to begin without him. We will be injecting bags shortly here- my partner has been experimenting at home for the last monthish with agar plates and stuff to learn about that side of the process. I'm not totally up to speed there its kind of out of my depth. I have been hounding him to get an account and get on here ASAP.

I don't want to go into to much detail about the property but neighbors aren't really a concern. I agree though- we have made the ground floor look like someone lives there- we were thinking of maybe putting some lights and a TV on a timer too? Honestly, though I am not super concerned about this. Cubensis was our plan just for the first ~6 months. We honestly were gonna throw away or compost or something the resulting plant matter as neither of us really partake anymore. My teenage self would balk at that statement LOL but I'm just too busy nowadays. Maybe for when I go on vacation I will save some.

I don't know whether the fuck ton of Lysol is necessary or desirable for entering the fruiting room. I'd be concerned about the effect it would have on the mushrooms and on myself.



I saw a guy using this on Hamiltons Pharmacopia. He was using regular non scented disinfectant spray. I believe it was Lysol. To clean his tools and himself etc. Will try to find a link to it. I will drop that part though it already seemed weird. It was a long time ago so I could be misremembering

That really is too hot for Cubensis.


Is there any mushrooms that really love heat? I don't know I how I missed this part I just assumed mushrooms would like higher temps. As far as AC goes does anyone have any plug and play solutions that wouldn't require extensive work?

Again thank you for all your help so far sidestreet

Edited by MaharishiTohotoho, 23 April 2021 - 04:00 PM.

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#4 TVCasualty

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 04:46 PM

This statement:

 

 

Our concern here isn’t stealth/speed or necessarily accessibility for ingredients/tools etc.

 

 

Contradicts this one:

 

 

We plan on initially growing Psilocybe Cubensis.

 

 

 

Your #1 concern is definitely stealth so long as whatever you're doing in your house is a felony or three.

 

Contamination is easy to recover from, relatively speaking. Just don't inhale it. Raids not so much.

 

FWIW, for a blowout grow I'd row-crop it outdoors, and use the room to produce a huge amount of spawn timed to be ready to mix into a bunch of manure or whatever as soon as the ground temp is high enough in Spring. Stealth and security can't be beat with an outdoor row for a grow at that scale, and the potential yields are exponentially-higher than indoor spaces allow when you're not running commercial-grade equipment. If you start now you might have everything together in time for next Spring. This includes the time to do a few successful small-scale proof-of-concept grows to dial in and fine-tune all your procedures.

 

Oh, and if you put a vapor barrier against an exterior-facing wall you will create a truly spectacular mold outbreak between the wall and the barrier (such as a tarp). So don't do that. Repainting is adequate.

 

 

It's kind of ironic but the fastest way to reach your goals is to start small and low-yield, aiming for consistency and cleanliness. Ratchet-up your output gradually as you achieve consistent success; it took me a long time to get my first dry ounce. As in a whole year of serious effort that failed over and over. Your commitment will be put to the test, too. Stick with it and be in for the long haul and you'll get there.

 

But keep your expectations realistic; you're proposing a project that normally (for edibles) calls for a thorough and well-researched business plan, the budget to make it happen, the right team of knowledgeable and experienced growers, and the budget to stay afloat and keep your bills paid until it actually manages to recoup your investment and turn a profit (which could take a few years).

 

 

It's all doable, it's just a LOT of work. In my experience, estimates for how long something like this will take should be at least doubled (if you're experienced) or tripled (if you're new to it). Same goes for budgeting. In any case being left with a surplus of time or money thanks to over-estimating your needs is a lot better than running out of time or money and having the project fall apart and fail thanks to under-estimating.

 

I also second everything Sidestreet wrote.

 

Good luck!


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#5 Sidestreet

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 07:38 AM

 

Additionally, it is easier to create early stage ROI with Cubensis Prints, Syringes, etc.

 

I haven't tried to do this, but I think it can be done with small-scale projects.  You can make a lot of syringes out of a single print.  But selling that stuff openly begs the question: where is the seller getting the spores?


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#6 sandman

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 10:23 AM

How is outdoors stealth? Only if you just happen to have some particularly large and rural property with no neighbors. Most people live in cities/suburban. Then you just have a yard full of obviously cropped mushrooms that everyone can see all day lol. People are nosy as fuck. Doing a large outdoor grow in most peoples situation sounds nonsensical. Way easies to have a secret dungeon slash mushroom lab. You don't keep your BDSM sexslaves chained up in the yard now do ya?! Noooo you keep that shit inside or the neighbors might see. 

 

Look all I'm saying is that if you can't peacefully choke yourself with a belt while you masterbate in your grow area it's probably not very secure.


Edited by sandman, 24 April 2021 - 10:37 AM.

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#7 Oldpunk

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 06:38 PM

Can I just throw in a WTF?
although I do like the mental picture of a leather bound slave chained to a tree in the yard.


I agree with trying to start small. Im a building contractor and have been working with a guy who is trying to go large scale production of edibles for area grocery stores. He's already been at it for years and just in trying to expand and prepare a new building he's been jumping through hoops and prone to all kinds of inspections, experienced every setback imaginable and is in general a year behind his original plan.

If this is your plan. Legal edible mushrooms. Why would you spend 6 months growing illegal ones which may have completely different grow requirements, and certainly legal ramifications especially on such a large scale, and then your gonna compost them all? Why take that risk?

Start with the grocery store variety. Try a few small runs to see how your grow chambers work. Chances are good you will alter their design before you find what works. Not to mention your airflow plan. It looks nice. But put that in an actual space and it may not perform how you expect. A little bit of real time experience will benefit you greatly.

And if you only want a little of the fun ones for vacation maybe, a 6x12" container will set you up just fine and negate the huge risk of growing a house full of them.
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#8 EYMAIOS

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 04:19 AM

.

I was ready to ask your age, but then I read you are teenager.
That explains the serious nonsensical approach.
Alternatively go play with pals that do not endanger you.

 

Your path is leading to jail trouble for no reason and no gain at all.

 

To begin with get serious or abandon the combined edible and cube projects at once!

 

A realistic approach is to concentrate at experimenting with commercial edibles to begin with.

In very very small scale...
This is the definite way to gain knowledge and experience.

Start with small projects before attempting any large scale grow.

Then you will discover the hard (but cheap and harmless) way all the skills needed to grow any scale and any kind of mushroom productions.
Read a lot of mycotopia old archives in deapth. Worth gold!
Watch lots of relevant You Tubes from actual professionals that explain the operational sequence and offer hard gained info. They also present the architectural and functional diagram of the plant.

Their precious knowledge costs nothing.

 

From the architectural point of operation a small area flat is unacceptable for production even with the support of an elevator. Ground floor is needed for horizontal easy process with an adjoining big yard.

 

To conclude:

Start with Hepa flowhood and PCooker provision in a clean room.

Work with jars and bags and petri dishes.
In a few months you will know the name of the game.

 

Best of success bro!
 



#9 Sidestreet

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 06:34 AM

 

My teenage self would balk at that statement LOL but I'm just too busy nowadays.

 

 

I really don't think this means he is a teenager EYMAIOS.  I think he meant that, when he was a teenager, he would have balked at the idea that he would not want to eat mushrooms all the time as an adult.


Edited by Sidestreet, 25 April 2021 - 06:36 AM.

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#10 rockyfungus

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 07:12 AM

From autoerotic asphyxiation and sex slaves to wondering about someone's age...

Anyways spore printing off a hooker's asshole is almost as wonderful as a full canopy. 

Edit: To reel it in. If you haven't even grown cubes yet, how the hell do you have dreams about a gourmet business. First I'm going to build a rocket ship then I'm going to learn physics. 


Edited by rockyfungus, 25 April 2021 - 07:14 AM.

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#11 sandman

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 07:19 AM

Guys I joke woke up with the weirdest headache and someone stole my pants,


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#12 Sidestreet

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 07:26 AM

Alright alright we've made our point.  Except you, Sandman.  You carry on--I want to hear more about the pants thing.

 

Maharishi, if you're still there, and not totally pissed off already, it would be cool if your partner were to sign up so we can see how the agar work is going.


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#13 Arathu

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 07:57 AM

A decent path to follow might be.....Get a nice fresh copy of GGMM by Paul Stamets and start studying, and applying, what's in there. Then, one by one, start growing the species found in that book.....Oysters are a really good place to start IMHO....

 

As far as actives go, I got a "message" from the shroom gods......they said to ME.... "DON'T sell us for human money"...... I say y'all do what you want but I wouldn't recommend walking that path.......

 

A six-pack of PF cakes, small trays even, done properly is probably enough (especially if they are woodlovers) for a small tribe to have medicine for the year (of course that's subjective)....

 

I don't know what the explanation for having several dozen tubs, let alone an outdoor "patch", flushing at once and ten days apart will be........I'm never gonna have that problem actually......  

 

I am going to go plant peas and radishes, maybe look for morels today if it stops raining....

 

Ovoids will pop down in the river bottom over the next few weeks......they just grow down there each year (I am fortunate to live in their home territory)......if one knows where and just as importantly WHEN.... to look......

 

Good luck man! IMHO Oysters are your immediate path forward.......

 

A


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#14 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 01:41 PM

How is outdoors stealth?

 

It's relative.

 

If you have a small veggie garden one row can be spawned manure under a row cover. Then it looks like compost ready for something to be planted in it. Most of the time there won't be anything visible except the manure and the row cover/shade would not be very high so no one would think you were growing cannabis (if that's still illegal where you happen to be) and most people don't assume anyone is growing fungi.

 

It also gives you plausible deniability so long as you don't have a spawn lab in the house. "I was sheet-composting some manure I got from a pasture so I could grow some wholesome tomatoes and all these damned demon-mushrooms just popped up after it rained!"






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