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Dietary dogma being slowly overturned


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#1 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 05 May 2021 - 03:30 PM

Well lets preface it with this

 

Everyone is different acronym. EID. Yes if you have high blood pressure reducing sodium could work for you and yes if your dehydrated sodium will hep you re hydrate. That is the science behind a sports drink for example. So of course we are going to have different solutions to different problems dependent on your lifestyle an genetics in regards to this.

 

I think most of us are familiar with the mostly busted myth that fats were ultimately responsible for all our health woes while sugar was touted as something to enjoy in moderation. Up until a year or so ago our Canadian food guide said a glass of whatever fruit juice you may find was the same as eating the said fruit. Wait what? something with corn syrup in it is the same as eating an apple? The point being as time goes on much of the concrete science around diet has been revealed to be heavily influenced by food manufacturers, spending millions in marketing and lobbying in order to not be labeled as the bad one. Don't even get me started on Crisco and vegetable oils, there is an easy rabbit hole for anyone to go down if they choose. The eradication of natural animal fats for highly processed seed oils was a doozey, touted as a health benefit and even better lower cost. Never mind the fact that they have to be extracted with high heat and pressure using methods you would expect to see in an industrial plastic making facility. And research is starting to show the negative health aspects of this marketing switch that was done to us

 

Que the vegan to tell us all how bad animal products are....

 

Anyway in that fashion I present to you another controversial dietary element, sodium

 

This article is a summary but if you click on the video at the bottom it will send you to the full episode

 

 

Nutritional science is still in its infancy. But as new pronouncements about dietary risks and benefits emerge every day, we need to remember to take them with a grain of salt.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/n...s/pass-the-salt


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 05 May 2021 - 03:32 PM.

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#2 shiftingshadows

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Posted 05 May 2021 - 05:21 PM

It is interesting, that 3 well know food substances are also known to be somewhat addictive and are therefore, used commercially by companies like MacDonalds **. And one of them is salt.

If one asks a heroin addicts how much smack is necessary, you will of course get different answers depending on how long standing the addictions are, the purity of the drug and so on. And the answers will all be different from those free of addiction who never used smack.

Currently if one has been a label reader for decades, one will discover that the amount of sodium in the american diet, has gone up. For example:... "The more likely explanation is the quasi-addictive effect of high salt consumption. Food sellers don’t just want you to like their products, they want you to crave them in increasing quantities. The more salt a person eats, the more salt he or she wants. "... ***

The data is similar for sugar. Coke (& other sodas) purposely have lots of sugar in them so that they do not quench thirst, and pretzels & chips are served in bars with beer to increase beer consumption. Admittedly we do need sodium, (although it can be got from foods such as sea weeds and celery etc.), but do not need refined white sugar. But both are used to increase sales, beyond actual needs.

** Super Size Me (2004) - IMDb
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390521/
Directed by Morgan Spurlock. With Morgan Spurlock, Daryl Isaacs, Chemeeka Walker, Dania Abu-Rmaileh. While examining the influence of the fast food industry, Morgan Spurlock personally explores the consequences on his health of a diet of solely McDonald's food for one month.

*** https://slate.com/te...-much-salt.html

Edited by shiftingshadows, 05 May 2021 - 05:25 PM.

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#3 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 01:40 PM

I think one of the best framing references for they way we should think about food is processed and unprocessed. Processed foods are of course full of salt because it's not really food so much as an industrial product that needs tons of salt to taste half decent. My guess for the raised salt consumption overall would directly follow the growth in processed food. People don't even cut their own veggies anymore, far too many products are made for convenience and push nutrition to the wayside. Like all these beyond meat products out there, sure you could eat it for ideological reason's but to consider it a healthy option at the fast food joint is a mistake. It is ultra processed garbage too

 

We stuck a McDonald's cheeseburger in a mounted fish mouth at work and years later it remains grossly intact. Hard as a brick but the colour and shape stayed the same

 

 

A side note, I never placed much stock into Morgan's work due to the fact that he went from basically being a vegetarian to a month straight of McDonald's. I thought it really put a stain on the experiment. That is going to wreak havok on anyone's body and if there was a better transition I feel he would have been able to handle it much better. I know people that lived on fast food for a few years and they turned out just fine. Granted I don't think anyone really needed a documentary to tell them that eating mcdonalds for 30 days was not going to turn out well.


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#4 shiftingshadows

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 02:28 PM

.   Good points about Morgan and McDonald's. [There are of course some people who dink alcohol & smoke & live to be 100 or more, so genetics play an important part too, as you imply]. It is now, scientifically documented (link below), that even without fasting simple dietary improvement, can alter, the desire for salt, etc., for those who like evidence based studies. Scrolling down the 139 comments on the video include some personal stories, for those who prefer such.

 

https://nutritionfac...our-taste-buds/

 

.   Indeed as you say processing messes up just about everything, except they say, if I remember correctly  tomatoes' lycopene availability, & a couple other cases where simple steaming helps.


Edited by shiftingshadows, 06 May 2021 - 02:31 PM.

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#5 Juthro

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Posted 06 May 2021 - 10:09 PM

Speaking of dietary dogma, I just bought a steer for the local amature rodeo.  They give it a home, pay for its feed, and take care of it through the summer, and at the end of season they dispatch it, and deliver it to the processor of my choice.   All that and I get season tickets to the rodeo.... 

 

And there are only three events this year, and it's only an armature rodeo.  The steer wins more rounds then the cowboys do, so it's not like Chuck (I named him myself) is going to get ran too hard.

 

Hormone free, antibiotic free, grass fed beef, and all I have to do is sign the check, and pick it up from the butcher.  Though I do have to buy another freezer before fall, but we've been wanting to get an upright freezer anyway.   

 

BBQ at Juthro's :)

 

 

(sorry, a bit off topic, but I was excited, and had to tell somebody :)


Edited by Juthro, 06 May 2021 - 10:15 PM.

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#6 August West

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 12:58 AM

Man, we need a new freezer. We buy half a hog from my buddy every year. I just went to grab a roast the other day and came upon about $300 worth of pork that was completely thawed...booo.

 

At least we got to eat about $150 worth.


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#7 Juthro

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 01:56 AM

Just letting you know my like wasn't for your misfortune, but was more 4 solidarity, August :)

 

Peace, and well wishes brother.


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#8 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:11 AM

Funny thing about grass fed beef is that many folk come to find it has an "off" taste because they are used to the store bought, grain finished beef that comes from feedlots. Well here anyway, beef production methods vary around the world. I wonder if they finish that steer with grain or grass fed all the way through? Either way I bet a guy like Juthro who is no stranger to wild meat is not going to have that issue of taste

 

August myself being a cheap prick I feel your pain for losing half your pork, I guess the silver lining is that would have made for a nice dinner or two.

 

shadows.  I follow what your saying about the cooking of tomatoes it is one of the foods that they attribute positive gains when we cook it. Then you get into the whole steaming versus raw vegetable thing I have not spent much time investigating myself. I was referring more to the ultra processed foods, pre packaged foods on the shelf that usually only require adding heat and or water. Versus buying raw ingredients, and cutting and cooking them yourself.


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#9 Juthro

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 01:08 PM

No grain finishing for Chuck,  he'll be grass fed up until it's time to go to the big smoke house in the sky, and your correct Rooster, we are OK with that here.  I've ate road killed moose before, if you season it right (and pick out all the gravel, lol) it's good eating.  So I'm not all that worried that Chuck will be offensive to our tastes, but your right about it tasting different then feedlot finished beef.

 

To be honest, the main reason we bought the steer is to support the local rodeo.   They took a hard hit last year due to the pandemic (zero events).  The collective rodeo association has done a lot of good in our community over the last decade, and I have admired them for their efforts.  I just feel this is a good way for me to help support them when they really need it.  A freezer full of beef is just a bonus. 


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#10 Myc

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 01:32 PM

I grew up on grass-fed beef. Grandad always had 20 or more cattle and every year we would select one young bull for processing. However, we always penned him up and fed him out on 4-way sweet feed for 2 weeks prior to processing. After moving away from the farm it just became too difficult to take part so ..... grocery store beef for me. :(

 

As for fruit drinks.........They contain more sugar than most carbonated soft-drinks.

As for carbonated soft drinks...........Most of them are made with high-fructose corn syrup (aka - crack). Beverage makers found the hfcs to be cheaper and easier to handle than cane sugar. Coke quietly made the switch a few years back. They did it quietly due to their experience with rolling out "New Coke" back in the 80's. The backlash from the public was epic and their sales suffered - no one would drink the stuff and sales of old-stock skyrocketed. Folks were hoarding cases of original Coke - reminiscent of the toilet paper rush at the beginning of the pandemic. They made no announcement or changes to the product packaging - with the exception of quietly changing the ingredients list.

I work in the beverage industry and one of my jobs is to "construct" new flavor formulas. We don't use hfcs but we buy cane sugar by the ton. There can be as many as twenty - 25-pound bags of sugar in a 60-barrel batch. (That's 500 pounds of cane sugar in 1,920 gallons of solution.) Basically - hummingbird feed - one cup of sugar to 3 cups of water. LOL


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#11 Mycol

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 01:34 PM

I’m probably going to buy a couple hogs and fed them out this summer. I can cut them up myself just need to build a cooler to hang them in for a bit . I’d really like to get some cows and raise a small herd .

I’d listened to a guy talk about how processed food is making our brains smaller. Basically since we have to chew less the muscle attached to our temple isnt worked as much and doesn’t need as much foundation like a big skull to attach to . Interesting to think about .

August I lost about half a deer and twenty pounds f pheasant and quail once and I still cringe when I think about it :(

Edited by Mycol, 07 May 2021 - 01:36 PM.

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#12 GORF

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 04:29 PM

Lard and butter
Eggs and bacon

are not bad. Fresh vegetables and fruits.

Our ancestors did that much right. Archeological records show tooth decay became endemic about the same time sugar and processed food appeared in out diets.
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#13 bezevo

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 05:27 PM

BACON The Essential  Nutrient of Life

 

and

 

 

Miracle Diet Food


Edited by bezevo, 07 May 2021 - 05:27 PM.

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#14 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 06:34 PM

That video sure made me change the way I think about being thirsty. Particularly when feeling dehydrated from being hungover, a good old lick of salt that allows your body to absorb that water and hold onto it rather than just pee it out and wonder why you feel so frigging thirsty. 

 

Overall more salt makes you drink more water and in return more salt  to try to re balance your electrolytes I have watched myself fluctuate weight around ten pounds at the most in a 24 period this way, this is what they call water weight for sure

 

Speaking of corn syrup I remember watching a show where they were saying that the reason that high fructose corn syrup became the cheap dominant sugar being produced in the amerias was due to massive government subsidies that make corn cheap to grow.

 

 

"Of course, they are not growing all of this corn because Americans can't get enough corn on the cob … they are growing it because the government pays them to, to the tune of more than $77 billion a year to produce corn as a raw material that can be processed into "food." You could not eat most of the GMO corn that is grown in this country unless it is processed at the factory into something that tastes better."

 

I am trying this keto diet and after a month it looks like I have lost around 7ish pounds not counting expected water weight fluctuations. Intermittent fasting I have been doing out of pure laziness for years now so it is a matter of cutting the junk food and these carbs and hopefully watch this gut eat self by staying calorie deficient for a while. Anyway you sure find out what has sugar in it real fast, a ton of stuff.


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#15 bezevo

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 07:02 PM

about 15 years ago  i was huge, fat guy like 300lb , almost a cripple  , i started walking and a LOW  carb diet in cpl months i lost 40lb in a year i lost 100 lb , lots meat with some veggies . . i was able ti fulfill my bucket dreams and take several OVER SEAS ADVENTURE TOURS  of Peru / the Amazon , Cuzco Machu Pichu and then yr later Egypt ..for two weeks and Jordan/Petra ect. I'M LIKE INDIANA JONES NOW  ha hsa 

 

bez


Edited by bezevo, 07 May 2021 - 07:03 PM.

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#16 rockyfungus

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:02 PM

Don't forget intermittent fasting bez!

Back in the day I took a class the "biology of dying". Only proven way they extended life was through caloric restriction. Granted wasn't carried out in humans, but I think we can conclude not overeating leads to longevity. 

 

https://sitn.hms.har...-your-lifespan/

 

Edit: sorry I get sidetracked


Edited by rockyfungus, 07 May 2021 - 09:09 PM.

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#17 August West

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 02:11 AM

August I lost about half a deer and twenty pounds f pheasant and quail once and I still cringe when I think about it :(

 

Damn. I don't feel quite as bad.

 

My buddy, who raises the hogs and beef, processes them all at his own place. Sometimes I go over and help him during harvest time. His set up is like something out of Farmer Beyond Thunderdome. He was born rich as fuck and spurned it all (well, most of it anyway) to move to the sticks and farm...oops, forgot the point...He has alarms on his freezers in case something happens with them. Of course, he has a shitload more invested inside the freezer than I did.

 

Another friend has a theory - I don't know, maybe it's not his own theory - that grain finished beef is more marbled than grass finished. 


Edited by August West, 08 May 2021 - 02:13 AM.

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#18 Mycol

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 05:37 AM

You can get marbling from grass but it takes a little longer and you need good genetics . Grain finished beef will marble and go to. Arlen quicker so that’s why we do that here . Well that and the grain is subsidized . I want to get some dexter cows they’re smaller, good quality meat, hardy and you can milk them .
Genetics also comes into play for tenderness too. Don’t buy French cattle lol

Lard is king baby!

Edited by Mycol, 08 May 2021 - 05:38 AM.

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#19 Juthro

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 12:16 PM

The rodeo gets their steers from a ranch on Sitkinak Island.   They run a herd of Scottish highland highbred, and a herd of quarter horses.

 

It's actually a very cool operation, the island is about 90 sq miles that the beef, and horses free range on.  The island has no resident population.  There is plenty about them on the net, if anyone is interested.

https://en.wikipedia...Sitkinak_Island


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#20 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 08:58 AM

mmmm marble in rib eye makes me mouth water, other steaks I could take it or leave it as the fat doesn't taste near as good

 

You should see the chalky white dusty hay like substance they feed to cattle at the feedlot here. The place has a dusty film surrounding the feed mill all the time and when the blower broke down one day it looked like Christmas out there. It might look bad but I don't have multiple stomach's to process it either so it likely provides efficient nutrients to fatten them up in the pens.

 

Well that island sounds about as free range as a guy is going to get haha. Nice

 

It is nice to actually lose some weight for once, it has been a sham of minor ups and downs but the general trend has always been upwards. Feels really good to see it go the other way for once, amazing what a little concentrated will power can do. If the desire is not truly there it will fail, just like quitting anything really, you have to really want to do it rather than just telling yourself you should do it.

 

Perhaps it was one of those trips I have taken recently...


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