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Meanwhile the main disinformation unit continues on


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#21 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 01:54 PM

The dangerous power of belief. If anything this highlights how smaller organized groups can use small sticks of dynamite to set off a powder keg of chaos

 

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#22 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 24 August 2021 - 03:16 PM

I thought about starting a conspiracy thread to make this comment today but hesitated. That could become a greasy thread I have no interest in being associated with, every tall tale on the internet no thanks. Watching this HBO documentary and the idea of free speech it in its extreme form has been on my mind. We accept a base level of censorship without much thought, like I don't really need to have a discussion about gory or violent images on the internet. There is zero desire to see them and I am willing to risk "missing out" on that bit of information.

 

 Conspiracy theorists can act like a crazy cult sometimes. Playing around in those circles can start to weaken our mental immune system. And even the best of us can start to get influenced under constant barrage of "seemingly credible" information. Quite often  when you meet a conspiracy guy, you find they are into all of them. Their mental immune system totally compromised, and any bit of counter culture information is now vacuumed up as truth. The sad part of it is these people have a understandable deep mistrust of institutions like the media and government, and in search of something more credible they found a golden covered piece of dog shit.

 

Of course we have many exceptions to that rule and one might find themselves down a particularly interesting rabbit hole one day and wonder what all the fuss was about. The tricky bit seems to be keeping our awareness of when we cross that line, it might not be as easy as one thinks

 

I have a strong feeling that human nature seeks out a religious type belief system regardless of it being a preexisting notion. Like a missing piece that clicks right into our minds without realizing it. I have yet to fully comprehend the mechanism but I feel there is a truth there. Misinformation at its worst it can act like a virus that can rapidly spread and infect the minds of millions. The religion is replaced with Q, it becomes their religion. Faithfully following it with great belief

 

So I watched that HBO series about the Q folk and I was a little surprised the direction it took. I thought they might dive a little deeper into the nature of influence and the grander discussion of why all these people are attracted to a phenomenon like Q.

 

Watching how the Q operates it was on course to be one of the greatest never ending conspiracies of all time, never proven wrong and constantly changing in real time based on predictions coming true or failing. They people would cook up the conspiracies based on the cryptic messages that Q left, called bakers. Then Q would select the best theory and back it up as truth. It was like a perpetual conspiracy machine. If one in ten predictions came true it was shown as Q proof, and the other ten false predictions were always explained away with some sort of "logic"

 

Anyway It took an interesting turn and delved into the nature of message boards, or image boards to be more precise.

 

The documentary implies that whoever Q was initially, the account was taken over by this Ron Watkins guy (Moderator of 8Chan) to essentially keep hundreds of thousands of users in a short span of time. Some speculate it was him the entire time and the change from 4Chan to 8Chan was all a ruse to hijack followers. Considering the two owners of the sites (Ron's dad, and his rival) it does seem in the realm of possible. Especially after watching the father and son, to say they seem shady is an understatement

 

If the implications are true it is really disturbing to find out the influence one "anonymous" person can hold over thousands of people. They Q's were like addicts, constantly checking their devices for the next Q drops. Granted some of these people had made a mini industry out of the Q anaon following and needed to stay on top of the q drops in order to make their youtube videos.

 

Anyway they did paint somewhat of a picture of the momentum behind the following

 

Mostly people chasing those likes, and the ones that got enough of them well in that case it morphed into monetary value. Sort of becoming the same thing they professed to despise so much



#23 Severian

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 12:59 PM

I

 

 

Yes.

 

 

It becomes especially interesting when considering the idea of 'conceptual vaccines." In that, a large number of the ideas that come our way have been presented in a just so fashion in order that they produce a response in us that can essentially be pre-determined.

 

'conspiracy theorist' for one example- in just the way you described; The way in which it's presented in the media is nearly always 'tinfoil hat crazy ancient alien guy'.... And so, whenever 'conspiracy theory' is thrown around, people have this subconscious association with the images / tone of how it's always been presented in the past- such that 'Alternative (non-mainstream narrative) explanation = conspiracy theorist = crazy = instantaneously dismissed; without any furthur thought....


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#24 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 03:24 PM

I hesitate to even post on this subject because every time I click on youtube news the left wing leaning media has been running nothing but capitol 6th for the entire year. You watch that on the regular and you would think Nazi's are hiding in your closet waiting to take over the country. Click over to the right and they act like it never happened, its all about fears of the border and immigrants coming to steal your jobs. What this does is create emotional folk that don't really care to trade in facts, its more about confirming our bias and fitting into big groups.

 

Of all the emotions that people were feeling after the capitol riot the one that stuck out the most in my mind was the feeling that we the people lost something important.

 

 

Obviously we have a lot of strong feelings about the nature of the protest and the substantive message behind it, but the act of going to protest at the Capitol building, people demanding to get into the Capitol building, I think it’s something that people on the Left should be able to relate to and identify with,” says James Clark, a civil rights lawyer based in Austin, Texas. ​Especially after the George Floyd uprising, we should be extremely concerned about any expansion or legitimization of the federal government in cracking down and going after protest activity.”

 

https://inthesetimes...ti-protest-left

 

 

How January 6 Is Being Used to Crush Dissent on the Left Rather than grapple with the political forces behind the Capitol siege, lawmakers have instead pushed a spate of anti-protests laws across the country.

On January 6 of last year, convinced that Donald Trump’s loss to Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential race was the result of a rigged election, hundreds of his supporters breached the United States Capitol to interrupt the certification of the election results in Congress — to ​stop the steal,” as they put it. They had been egged on by a constellation of right-wing corporate media outlets, Republican officials and, of course, Trump himself. 

A nation and world looked on aghast as a motley band of protesters — from realtors who arrived in a private jet and moms and dads who drove in from far-off suburbs to bizarrely dressed QAnon believers, militia members and full-on white supremacists — stalked the Capitol halls, taking selfies, looting congressional offices and searching for elected officials, all in an attempt to overturn a democratic election. 

 

The Capitol riot has frequently been compared to the 9/11 World Trade Center attacks, by media commenters, government officials and even former President George W. Bush. On the one hand, the comparison is absurd. While nearly 3,000 people were killed by terrorists 21 years ago, only five died in last year’s Capitol siege, four of them the rioters themselves — the ​attackers,” in the analogy — and one officer, who died of a stroke after the event. 

 

However, the two events do have some stark parallels. Each was an avoidable security failure, received a mountain of fear-inducing media coverage, and has since been used to justify further centralization of repressive government powers. 

The response to the events of January 6 has been marked by a crackdown on dissent: a dramatic increase in anti-protest bills around the country, including at least 88 that have been introduced since the Capitol riot; a massive buildup of the Capitol police into a national force to target ​terrorism;” as well as the rollout by the Biden administration of a sweeping domestic counter-terror strategy.

U.S. history shows that such expanded powers to crush protests wind up disproportionately impacting those on the Left, no matter what led to the laws’ passage in the first place. In many ways, the response to January 6 may wind up being more dangerous than the event itself. 

 

The ​domestic terror” threat

Shortly after the Capitol riot, Sen. Tom Cotton (R‑Ark.), who had been widely pilloried for demanding in the New York Times that U.S. troops be sent in to quell racial justice protesters in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, published a near-identical op-ed celebrating that the country was now on his side. ​Some liberals appear to have shed their reservations about the use of force now that the mob carries different signs and chants different slogans,” he cheered. 

 

The outrage toward the Capitol rioters was largely rooted in the same objections made against the George Floyd protesters of 2020, who had also been viewed as ​insurrectionists” by those on the opposite side of the political spectrum. The inspector general’s report on Trump’s heavy-handed clearance of George Floyd protesters from Lafayette Park on June 1, 2020, for instance, detailed acts indistinguishable from what many liberal politicians and pundits would, after January 6, charge amounted to terrorism and required government crackdown: protesters breaching cordoned-off areas; damage and defacement of private and public property; officers assaulted, even hospitalized, with makeshift weapons and projectiles. Of course, those racial justice protesters were met with violent police measures, including the use of batons, tear gas, pepper balls and non-lethal grenades.

 

But while establishment Democrats and commentators called for the many non-violent January 6 participants to be harshly prosecuted, even charged with ​felony murder,” some judges and prosecutors opted for leniency, acknowledging that ​the actions of many of the individual rioters often boiled down to trespassing,” as Politico reported. Even FBI director Christopher Wray noted that peaceful protesters and those who got swept up for committing ​low-level trespassing” were the vast majority of the participants. 

 

Obviously we have a lot of strong feelings about the nature of the protest and the substantive message behind it, but the act of going to protest at the Capitol building, people demanding to get into the Capitol building, I think it’s something that people on the Left should be able to relate to and identify with,” says James Clark, a civil rights lawyer based in Austin, Texas. ​Especially after the George Floyd uprising, we should be extremely concerned about any expansion or legitimization of the federal government in cracking down and going after protest activity.” 

The days, weeks and months after January 6 should have prompted some difficult questions: What were the forces that led so many Americans to believe such a massive lie? What created the profound mistrust of political institutions that undergirded it? What was the role of corporate power in what happened, and how could it be curbed? Instead, a prosecutorial push combined with relentless and often error-laden media coverage of the events fed into an accelerating right-wing narrative about growing disorder and lawlessness, which Republicans seized on to advance an authoritarian agenda against the Left. 

 

Alluding to Capitol riot, authorities in Florida prosecuted anarchist and Black Lives Matter protester Daniel Baker purely over speech and social media posts, sentencing him to nearly three years in prison, roughly the same punishment as one Capitol rioter got for punching an officer. Left-leaning activists around the country were paid visits by authorities in the days and weeks following the siege. 

Clark says that this kind of harassment largely subsided after the first few weeks following January 6, but the event has had a lingering effect. In Florida, Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis invoked the Capitol riot to reintroduce and pass into law a repressive anti-protest bill that had previously failed. In a video promoting the bill, his party even placed footage of the Capitol breach side by side with that of the George Floyd protesters, making the case that such out-of-control protesters need to be subdued. 

 

Eighty-eight such anti-protest bills have been introduced around the country since the Capitol riot, according to the International Center for Not-for-Profit Law. Thirty-three of those were introduced in January 2021 alone following the siege, with several, such as Florida’s bill, coming within the days immediately after January 6, and another 32 introduced that February. Eleven of these post-January 6 laws have so far been enacted, giving authorities wide latitude to prohibit or punish protesters, and sometimes even providing legal protection to motorists who mow them down. By contrast, an average of only 36 such laws were introduced over the four previous years. 

 

Republicans have often pointed to the protests of summer 2020 to justify this authoritarian crackdown. But lawmakers in Connecticut, Georgia, Indiana and Oklahoma, as well as Florida, have all cited January 6 to justify these repressive measures. More broadly, the themes officials have drawn on to sell these bills — widespread property damage, violence, disrespect and danger towards police officers — have echoed the themes of media coverage that prevailed in the weeks and months after the Capitol riot. 

 

Targeting the Left

Democrats have so far not followed through on the idea of instituting a domestic terrorism law, though plenty of voices in the party clamored for it after January 6. But that’s not much solace. 

The event’s clearest legacy is the expansion of the Capitol police into a national anti-terrorism force, one that operates largely free of public accountability and oversight. Rep. Bennie Thompson (D‑Miss.), chairman of the House select committee investigating January 6, has said the committee will recommend new ​intelligence-gathering” legislation, just as many rank-and-file Democrats are becoming increasingly supportive of government surveillance and institutions like the CIA and FBI.

 

The Biden administration has also increased information sharing between different authorities, and released a domestic counter-terror strategy that would target what it calls ​domestic violent extremists” who are ​motivated by a range of ideologies,” listing environmentalists, anti-capitalists and animal rights activists, among others. Such language mirrors the rhetoric used by law enforcement officials and members of Congress in counter-terrorism hearings after the event, who paired January 6 with the George Floyd protesters (or ​anarchist violent extremists”) as proof of a rising terrorist threat, stressing that extremists who committed crimes across the political spectrum need to be targeted while advocating a new domestic terrorism law. 

 

According to data from the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, as of February 2021, domestic terrorism cases were on track to beat the record 183 cases recorded in 2020, with 54 filed in Washington, D.C. after January 6. In September 2021, FBI director Wray testified that the Bureau’s domestic terrorism caseload had more than doubled since 2020, as have the number of personnel working in the area.

Such prosecutions won’t be limited to the Capitol rioters. In October 2021, the Biden administration sought a terrorism sentencing ​enhancement” for two New York City lawyers who pled guilty to setting a police car on fire during the 2020 protests, which could potentially add years to their prison terms. This crackdown helps illustrate how any further expansion of anti-terrorism powers could be wielded against Left-leaning activists, particularly if Republicans win back federal power, which they are widely expected to do in upcoming elections. 

 

Recent history shows what such repression could look like. In the wake of the 9/11 attacks, federal authorities routinely used the expansive new anti-terrorism powers passed under Republican President George W. Bush to target progressive activists, dissidents, immigrants and Muslims. During Trump’s presidency, this massive, unaccountable national security infrastructure was put to use even more forcefully. When the George Floyd protests broke out in 2020, Trump turned the ​war on terror” bureaucracy on the American people themselves, with federal forces and local law enforcement inflicting brutal violence on protesters, kidnapping them from city streets and helping turn urban areas such as Portland, Oregon into effective war zones. 

 

When Trump threatened to declare the anti-fascist movement Antifa a terrorist organization in May 2020, many civil liberty advocates expressed a collective sigh of relief over the fact that no domestic statute existed to let him do so. Yet, in response to January 6, some liberal commentators called for instituting just such a statute, before Trump had even left office.

 

The breach of the Capitol happened in large part because law enforcement was asleep at the wheel, if not willfully negligent, not for a lack of repressive government powers. Enacting such laws won’t solve the underlying structural issues that helped lead to the Capitol riot happening — from a powerful right-wing media ecosystem to police collaboration with far-right activists — or the economic dislocation that clearly fed into its participants’ delusions. And they won’t prevent the entirely legal maneuverings by elected Republicans to annul any future election result not to their liking — the most serious threat to democracy on that day, and one that, as Trump advisor Peter Navarro has charged, was interrupted and unwittingly undermined by the rioters’ breach. 

 

There’s no doubt that U.S. democracy is at risk. But one year after the January 6 Capitol riot, it should be clear that handing the next right-wing demagogue more powers of repression to go after his opponents will only make the threat more dire.

 

 

On another note: Language wars (aka thought control) continue, and looks like this round goes to "the crazies". MSM and politicians you put in a good effort but alas.

 

https://www.msn.com/...an-6/ar-AANxOuQ



#25 Juthro

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 03:49 PM

I hesitate to even post on this subject because every time I click on youtube news the left wing leaning media has been running nothing but capitol 6th for the entire year. You watch that on the regular and you would think Nazi's are hiding in your closet waiting to take over the country. Click over to the right and they act like it never happened, its all about fears of the border and immigrants coming to steal your jobs. What this does is create emotional folk that don't really care to trade in facts, its more about confirming our bias and fitting into big groups.

 

 

The fact that Jan 6th was a violent attempt to overthrow the legal, and established transfer of power can not be overstated.   I also believe those people that participated, and their backers are still waiting in the wings for an opportunity to try again. 

 

Insurrection is the proper word to use for what happened.  Those people that participated,  helped to plan, and execute the events of that day are traitors to their country, and need to held accountable for their actions.   Just because it was poorly executed, and unsuccessful doesn't mean it should be treated otherwise.  It was not just a protest that got out of hand, these people tried to overthrow the properly elected government.  It did happen, we all saw it live on TV, and it was without a doubt the most dangerous internal action taken against the US since the civil war.

 

EDIT:  Sorry, poor grammar repair 


Edited by Juthro, 15 January 2022 - 04:17 PM.

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#26 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 04:28 PM

 

I hesitate to even post on this subject because every time I click on youtube news the left wing leaning media has been running nothing but capitol 6th for the entire year. You watch that on the regular and you would think Nazi's are hiding in your closet waiting to take over the country. Click over to the right and they act like it never happened, its all about fears of the border and immigrants coming to steal your jobs. What this does is create emotional folk that don't really care to trade in facts, its more about confirming our bias and fitting into big groups.

 

 

The fact that Jan 6th was a violent attempt to overthrow the legal, and established transfer of power can not be overstated.   I also believe those people that participated, and their backers are still waiting in the wings for an opportunity to try again. 

 

Insurrection is the proper word to use for what happened.  Those people that participated, and helped to plan and execute the events of that day are traitors to their country, and need to held accountable for their actions.   Just because it was poorly executed, and unsuccessful doesn't mean it should be treated otherwise.  It was not just a protest that got out of hand, these people tried to overthrow the properly elected government.  It did happen, we all saw it live on TV, and it was without a doubt the most dangerous internal action taken against the US since the civil war. 

 

 

They will try again, and they will go Full Retard and lose again, too. The high-functioning psychopaths who organize this stuff might be fairly intelligent but the foot soldiers they rely on to make their dreams come true are dumber than shit.

 

And next time they get too close for comfort I bet a lot more of them will get shot like that unhinged dingbat who tried to climb in through the broken window while there was a pistol pointing directly at her from a few inches away. When guns have been aimed at me, I stopped advancing toward the people pointing them at me and as a result I am still here to talk about it.


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#27 Juthro

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 05:55 PM

They will try again, and they will go Full Retard and lose again, too. The high-functioning psychopaths who organize this stuff might be fairly intelligent but the foot soldiers they rely on to make their dreams come true are dumber than shit.

 

 

 

And next time they get too close for comfort I bet a lot more of them will get shot like that unhinged dingbat who tried to climb in through the broken window while there was a pistol pointing directly at her from a few inches away. When guns have been aimed at me, I stopped advancing toward the people pointing them at me and as a result I am still here to talk about it.

 

 

I truly am sorry that I am not opposed to it.   I really don't wish anybody to be shot or killed, but when people are actively trying to hurt, and kill while in active pursuance of trying to overthrow  a legally elected government....  Yeah, they aren't going to get any sympathy from me when they fall.   

As far as ashli babbitt goes, she committed suicide by cop IMO.  The right wing media wants her to be a martyr, but the reality is she was just a highly unstable person with a history of violent behavior

 

Like so many of the people in the capitol that day she didn't believe the rules should apply to her.   She was behaving like a petulant child that didn't get it's way, but unfortunately for her it had real world consequences.  If you rush a cop (or anyone for that matter) who is cornered with no route of escape while he has his weapon pointed at you doesn't make you a hero, it shows that your an idiot.


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#28 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 15 January 2022 - 06:16 PM

I can understand the fear and concern of a repeat. Plenty of us looking ahead to 2024 and our guts start to turn

 

To be fair In the country of innocent until proven guilty I have yet to see any charges laid claiming insurrection, and it was not from lack of trying. So we come to an impasse where it becomes personal opinion playing with a definition, how do we bust such a tie well I guess we do what we always do and look to a justice system. The insurrection is nearly an impossible term to address at this point considering its use in the grand scheme of politics. I see they finally laid some charges on the coordinators in the chaos like the oath keepers. Seditious conspiracy charges. They say a maximum penalty of twenty years so it is a very serious charge none the less. I think most people would agree that the ones that committed crimes need to be held accountable for their actions that day. 

 

Personally I think most folk busted their wad that day, they would not be going back to repeat it. We went through it already on the 20th of January though right? Remember the fear was palpable yet when that day came there was literally one guy in the street looking at a massive fence around the capitol. Those 20,000 troops that I would bet will be there in 2024 will ensure nothing even comes close to what we witnessed on the 6th

 

I tend to agree with the author when they make the statement that the real danger was elected officials seeking to delay or overturn an election. From what I can tell it has been going on for the last five years now. Like you guys I too am a little more than concerned with the next election, I honestly pray that Donald gets whacked off by a micro meteor or some other act of chaos that takes him out of the race

 

edit: always grammer and spelling haha


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 15 January 2022 - 06:21 PM.


#29 TVCasualty

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 04:37 PM

It seems like either the various government entities, officials, and Agencies tasked with defending and maintaining the republic are already overrun with reactionary extremists who support overthrowing the government and so cannot effectively stop continuing attempts to do so or they've been spending all this time since 1/6/21 laying the tedious ground work for an overwhelming and air-tight sedition case against those involved.

 

If it's the former, the U.S. is already lost and what's coming over the next few years is inevitable. If it's the latter, it still might be salvageable. It's looking more like the former with every passing day of relative inaction, though (in most places everyone involved with a failed attempt to overthrow a government would have been hung or shot on 1/7/21).


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#30 Juthro

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 06:41 PM

Not that I personally had any doubt at how this was being played out, but it is nice to get some validation of how FAUX news was being weaponized in the attempt to overthrow the government.

 

 

[Direct Link]


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#31 RiseUp

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Posted 29 January 2022 - 08:01 PM

Well you gotta consider the 'alternate facts' in order to fully understand. 


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#32 Juthro

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Posted 04 February 2022 - 06:49 PM

As much as disagree with his ideology, and his politics I have to give Mike Pence some credit for finely finding his voice, and his testicles to speak out about rump and the election.
 

"President Trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election,” he said in a speech to a gathering of the Federalist Society, a conservative legal group. “There are those in our party who believe that, as the presiding officer over the joint session of Congress, that I possessed unilateral authority to reject Electoral College votes.”
“The presidency belongs to the American people, and the American people alone,” he added. “And frankly, there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president.”


https://www.cnbc.com...tion-claim.html






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