Seems we're all related. That's Grandma Krokkers' recipe for cucumbers too :) Absolutely positively a certainty that it's Hungarian in origin - or that's what she told me anyway

Some follow up Chem questions
#41
Posted 15 June 2021 - 12:09 PM
- Phineas_Carmichael and YoshiTrainer like this
#42
Posted 18 June 2021 - 10:32 AM
#43
Posted 18 June 2021 - 08:32 PM
- YoshiTrainer likes this
#44
Posted 21 June 2021 - 12:22 PM
#45
Posted 21 June 2021 - 02:43 PM
I think that happened to me once - I seemed to be getting fantastic yields from a relatively small extraction that I was salting with H2SO4. The yield didn’t taste bitter at all, just vaguely salty so I think I made a sulfite something.
- YoshiTrainer likes this
#46
Posted 21 June 2021 - 04:06 PM
#47
Posted 21 June 2021 - 08:50 PM
In theory most acids would form a salt when combined with the alkaloid.
Based on nothing, I’ll assume that it’s stored in the plant as a citric or ascorbic acid salt so those (or whatever) would be the commonly naturally occurring ones.
- YoshiTrainer likes this
#48
Posted 22 June 2021 - 02:08 AM
#49
Posted 24 June 2021 - 07:55 AM
All those acids are freely available and not controlled. The mescaline salts they make might be more or less active, more or less gooey, or more or less worth experimenting with.
Mescaline Gibberelate sounds like it would be a hilarious thing to bring to the research group for a taste test!
Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 24 June 2021 - 07:56 AM.
- YoshiTrainer likes this
#50
Posted 24 June 2021 - 04:19 PM
I suppose this begs the question, which salt is "the best"? It is probably a little subjective but if Freddie walked into W-mart to get some cat food and decided to peruse their selection of salts, which would he choose?
"In the event an emulsion absolutely cannot be broken it should stay with the layer that is not moving on in the process. A defat emulsion should stay with the solvent. A freebase emulsion should stay with the aqueous."
In the case of a freebase emulsion, it is drained off with the aqueous. After salting, when the aqeous is added back to the solvent for the next pull, are you able to release the target molecule from the emulsion? When you swirl the 3 phases together in your funnel, are you pulling from the emulsion in addition to the aqueous? If you did 5 pulls carrying an emulsion, would you still get as much of the target molecule from the aqueous?
- Norman likes this
#51
Posted 24 June 2021 - 06:08 PM
Skunk
SkunkedWorks
- YoshiTrainer likes this
#52
Posted 24 June 2021 - 08:00 PM
Fumarate for DMT if you want a dry salt end product but plain old DWV is tried and true for boiling bark.
Sulfate for mescaline if you know your expected yield and want to do the math to get pretty needles, HCl if not since it evaporates clean.
About anything will work for simply getting an alkaloid into an aqueous phase. If you’re going to ingest it like that, look to food grade citric or acetic. Are you going to reduce it? Then look to acetic since citric will concentrate.
There is no “one”, though I guess HCl will do just about anything, is nice and simple, strong, and doesn’t stick around.
Saying “acid” or “salt” is only about 50% more specific than saying “chemical”.
- Phineas_Carmichael, skunk, bezevo and 1 other like this
#53
Posted 25 June 2021 - 04:20 AM
For salting freebase mescaline from a cactus extraction, nothing beats good old aqueous HCl. It's straightforward, easily obtainable, and for the most part evaporates cleanly to form a shelf-stable crystalline product that can be easily cleaned up to acceptably decent levels of purity with very little Lab technique required.
As far as which mescaline salt is best for dosing, I don't think it matters that much. Biochem was never my forte, but it's always been my understanding that the HCl in the stomach converts whatever you take into the hydrochloride anyway. Also, in the bloodstream (avg pH 7.4) mescaline is going to exist as the freebase, which (again, in my admittedly rudimentary understanding) is what binds to the Neurotransmitter receptors & causes a psychedelic effect.
Ideally, that freebase emulsion should break fairly quickly once it's out of the Sep funnel. Being sandwiched between 2 layers with its "fingers" in both makes it harder to break, plus adding NaCl & carefully applying heat are both a lot easier in a jar or beaker....
In the case of a freebase emulsion, it is drained off with the aqueous. After salting, when the aqeous is added back to the solvent for the next pull, are you able to release the target molecule from the emulsion?
When you swirl the 3 phases together in your funnel, are you pulling from the emulsion in addition to the aqueous?
If you did 5 pulls carrying an emulsion, would you still get as much of the target molecule from the aqueous?
The emulsion locks up the target molecule pretty tightly, so you want to try and break it at every step of the way. You can also break a freebase emulsion by draining the aqueous out, leaving just the emulsion & non-polar in the funnel, and adding warm ph 14 NaOH solution 0.5-1.0mL at a time to the top of the funnel with gentle swirling between additions.
If an emulsion absolutely refuses to break & you must carry it through 5 pulls, then yes, yield would be reduced. But probably only in a way that would matter if a TA was grading your extraction based on a rubric provided by the Professor. You're not going to lose "dosage levels" of product to a stubborn emulsion unless the extraction (or the emulsion) is absolutely gigantic.
[EDIT] Technique-wise, you should be separating all components to their designated jars or beakers and thoroughly cleaning and drying the Sep funnel between all pulls. Put the freebase aqueous in, add the non-polar, and gently mix. Drain the freebase aqueous, add the salting solution, gently mix and drain it, then dump the non-polar out the top of the funnel before cleaning and repeating.
Dumping the freebase aqueous on top of the non-polar in a Sep funnel is ROUGH... A recipe for emulsion...[/EDIT]
Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 25 June 2021 - 07:47 AM.
- skunk and YoshiTrainer like this
#54
Posted 25 June 2021 - 09:03 AM
#55
Posted 10 July 2021 - 03:45 PM
In an STB, is it possible to use fresh (wet) green skins and just reduce the water used?
#56
Posted 10 July 2021 - 04:34 PM
While I've never seen an STB using fresh cactus I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. Depending on the water content of the skins one might not need any additional water at all in a Drytek using calcium hydroxide. In a more traditional sodium hydroxide STB I'm not sure the amount of pH 14 solution would be all that reduced.
- bezevo and YoshiTrainer like this
#57
Posted 11 July 2021 - 03:11 PM
This is also why my favorite poem from the Chem Lab exists:
"Always do what you oughtta,
Add the acid to the watah."
Anyone else singing this to the safety dance melody right now?
Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 11 July 2021 - 03:12 PM.
- Phineas_Carmichael and bezevo like this
#58
Posted 12 July 2021 - 12:35 AM

Please forgive me a few rhythmic liberties; that first stanza is ROUGH, but I wanted to start with a reference to the original poem. It's a little easier to sing over a karaoke backing track...[4 Bar Instrumental Intro]
Always do what you ought to,
In your Life and in the Lab.
If Teacher gives the order
And you then ignore her,
That reaction's gonna turn out bad!
We can make what we want to,
All the drugs that we can find.
But you better wear your goggles
Avoid a boondoggle
That tragi-cally leaves you blind!
[4 Bar Instrumental Break]
We'll extract what we want to,
In a well-ventilated room.
And if we dress real dope,
In gloves
and lab-coat
We'll avoid an unexpected BOOM!
We can work when we want to,
But this shit is not a game.
Get advice and heed it
Wear an apron if you need it
And look out for unattended flame!
We can dance, we can dance,
Everything's under control.
We can dance, we can dance,
If it isn't: Stop, Drop, and Roll!
We can dance, we can dance,
Everybody wear your long pants.
We can dance, we can dance,
Nobody's taking the cha-ah-ha-hance!
Safety dance
We do the safety dance!
We love the safety dance!
[4 Bar Instrumental Break]
[Synth Build bridges Break with Verse]
It doesn't matter if we want to,
At stake is your life and mine.
Always gotta use it
If we don't abuse it
Everything will turn out fine.
We dance because we want to,
We must leave your friends behind.
Because your friends don't dance
And cuz they don't dance
Well they're, no friends of mine.
We can dance, we can dance,
Everything's under control.
We can dance, we can dance,
If it isn't: Stop, Drop, and Roll!
We can dance, we can dance,
Everybody wear your long pants.
We can dance, we can dance,
Nobody's taking the cha-ah-ha-hance.
Safety dance misc to fade out...
Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 12 July 2021 - 03:39 AM.
- FLASHINGROOSTER and YoshiTrainer like this
#59
Posted 12 July 2021 - 03:03 PM
hahaha that is awesome
#60
Posted 12 July 2021 - 09:04 PM