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#1 rockyfungus

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Posted 10 July 2021 - 03:08 PM

I've been disciplined to a self-taught yoga ritual for about 5 years now. I miss lifting and putting down heavy objects.  I love skating (old to find it), and want to stay agile and not feel the need to get huge! Might as well toss someone else, and learn to roll better for skating. I'm a passive dude and when I see red I lose all sense of control. I have little self-care I suppose and never defend myself, I try to de-escalate situations, but I've blown the fuse defending friends or gone into petty rages. (never smashed my brothers head in though...)

What discipline makes sense? Trying to remember the bit I know about the practices. Jiu-jitsu seems right, aikido (meh, thanks segall),קרב מגע, krav (i'm jew---ish, come on menorahs and driedels and latkes and matzah ball soup, and brisket....secular jews/non-zionist are best jews), judo or sambo?

I wrestled very very briefly (gave up as many sports as I tried within 6mo...). I'm a tiny dude 5'6, very broad shoulders, I got that low gravity and always fought by getting low and sweeping or taking out knees (few minor scuffles or friendly brawls, don't want to fight, but I want to defend).

 

Judo-Roll-85466.gif

 



#2 August West

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Posted 10 July 2021 - 04:51 PM

I started Brazilian jiu jitsu (as opposed to Japanese) relatively late. All of my "physical conditioning" had been coming from a manual labor-based job for years. All of my mental energy was going (still does) to a family member with complex medical problems. I needed a better outlet.

 

Some questions to ask yourself:

 

-Do you want to get punched or kicked in the head and face as a matter of daily training? That will narrow or expand your search in a hurry.

 

Do you want to find out as best as possible, the value of your training in a "real world" situation through live sparring? Some martial arts don't do this.

 

What are your opportunities? Despite your desire, depending on where you live, you may have a long drive to get to instruction. Good luck finding combat Sambo or Krav Maga in a small town.

 

Imo, there's no martial art that directly replaces strength or flexibility training. It's more "and, also" rather than "either, or".

 

For me, I was intrigued by the concept (marketing?) that BJJ is the "chess of martial arts". I have found it to be as mentally stimulating as physical. I did not want to suffer head trauma in training. Though fighting has never been an issue for me and will likely continue to decrease as an issue, I wanted something practical to use, if the need should arise. I suspect I could briefly defend myself against most people if I must. And I wanted to be able to have legitimate, high level instruction within reasonable driving distance. In my case that is legitimate lineage, high level black belt training. Thankfully, I was able to check all those boxes.

 

As an aside topic that I enjoy...if you made me choose one single skill set to have to defend myself with in a live situation, I think without a doubt it would be straight forward wrestling. Good wrestlers are a fucking handful. There use of takedowns, closing distance and understanding pressure makes them extremely effective in short-lived physical altercations. Second would be the 110 meter hurdles.


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#3 Phineas_Carmichael

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Posted 10 July 2021 - 04:51 PM

I'm Jew-ish also in the same way that the Olive Garden is Italian and I agree, secular non-zionist he-bros and she-bros are my favorite.

I think that's an excellent list of disciplines for someone with your body type and fighting style. Anything that uses your opponent's momentum as opposed to your brute strength would be a good fit. Your choice will probably boil down to what schools you can find nearby & finding a teacher who you click with. I have several years training in Songham Tae Kwon Do, but left when my school changed hands from a demonstrative pacifist Desert Storm Tank Commander to a young buck who believed the best way for folks to learn was to get beat on a little bit in free-sparring. Both are valid teaching styles, but only one works for me...
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#4 bezevo

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Posted 10 July 2021 - 07:47 PM

Rocjy i am about your side decades ago  i studied several  Martial arts i liked Aikido

It is more about self defense  than most . .. 

According to the founder's philosophy, the primary goal in the practice of aikido is to overcome oneself instead of cultivating violence or aggressiveness.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikido


Edited by bezevo, 10 July 2021 - 07:52 PM.


#5 rockyfungus

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Posted 10 July 2021 - 10:20 PM

It's been years since I got hit. I live in a decent metro so shouldn't be hard to find any discipline I'd imagine.

I'd like to roll with the punches better figuratively and physically speaking. Don't need to scrap all day but would like to test my limits a bit. I know of Krav places, seen BJJ everywhere.

I guess I'd like more mental>physical, but not some kinda useless one (Kendo IIRC?)

Maybe I should go back to wrestling, used to run more mid-distance/sprint. I know tsome exeprienced krav dudes who said first defence is distance...

Edited by rockyfungus, 10 July 2021 - 10:21 PM.


#6 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 11 July 2021 - 03:02 PM

Learn how to run, it may not seem manly but it is the easiest and most potent defense anyone can muster

 

Wrestling was how I won most of my street fights, unless the guy knows how to land a good punch. Then the rush can be dangerous but I found a simple judo trip was enough to disarm most opponents. Basic training can go a long way when applied practically


 


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#7 pharmer

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Posted 12 July 2021 - 04:01 PM

Judo will teach you how to break your fall safely, and how to roll out of things instead of trying to stop a fall with your arm, for instance. For my money it's a good launch pad into the martial arts. It teaches respect for your training partners and has a lot of safety features built into the training regimens.

 

Jiu-Jitsu comes in two flavors. One is the very familiar grappling and groundfighting style very common to MMA these days. It's good stuff for defending against hostiles who've been watching a lot of UFC fights, or your common street punk who will try to overpower or sucker punch you.

 

The other flavor of Jitsu is the ancient styles that came out of the Samurai's. It's much more about standing up for most of the fight and using joint locks and joint destroying techniques. They'll also choke but prefer devestation and humiliation of the opponent. It's the "harder" variant of Jitsu. Training sessions include bruises and because they have less of the built in safety features of Judo you're likelier to  get joint or ligament damages. I haven't seen many dojos doing this stuff in the last 10 years or so and will probably continue on this downward trend as all the older senseis stop teaching and the style fades into obscurity unless some new fad brings it back.

 

Krav Maga will get you ready to go to war PDQ. It's not a stylish artsy thing. It's just about inflcting damage in a hurry but assumes your opponent is not a skilled fighter. My opinion is if you put a Krav black belt in the ring with an MMA guy, or maybe one of the Philipino types Krav guy is going to lose mainly because he has a small bag of tricks and is all about offense and gets lost when put on the defense. (The argument begins in 3, 2, 1.......)

 

One last piece of advice. Don't get too hung up on what style to study. Instead look for a dojo with an instructor who is not vainglorious, fosters a safe and respectful training atmosphere, and the dojo is populated with people you would hang out with outside of the training sessions. Good people make for a good experience. Movie star wannabe's and petty assholes who are ok with hurting people will ruin it for you pdq.

 

I looked into the Silat styles for a couple months and found them max useful for learning to fight with an edged instrument in your hand. Interestingly any technique you learn for the edged weapon works just as well empty handed with only minor and intuitive adjustements. I didn't stick with this long enough to get good at it but have a high degree of confidence that it's the real deal and worth considering when doing your shopping. Kali is a first cousin of Silat, as are all the Pacific ocean island styles. These styles are about killing.

 

That's important to note. They go from zero to ninety immediately.

 

Jiu Jitsu and Judo are taught with a ratcheting violence ethic. You can choose to deflect agression, or choose just enough violence and technique to physically control the aggressor, or choose to dislocate his joints or choke him unconcious, or break his neck. Taught correctly this ratcheting effect becomes second nature .

 

That's why I lean in that direction.


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#8 rockyfungus

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Posted 12 July 2021 - 07:27 PM

Judo it is. Really appreciate the informative write up. Now to find a teacher and dojo.



#9 August West

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Posted 12 July 2021 - 08:41 PM

pharmer's post reminded me of something I forgot to mention. Fwiw, in the mma world, the main disciplines that have survived since Royce Gracie stupefied the martial arts world in the early 90s, are, in no particular order: wrestling, BJJ, boxing and muy Thai kickboxing. After that, there is generally a pretty wide gap of "base," disciplines. The next would probably be Judo and after that there's probably almost no reason to count them. Combat sambo has limited but very dominant adherents as well. Interestingly, as I think about it, Judo seems to be the primary discipline of more dominant women fighters than men. A lot of those people don't necessarily have a base skill anymore as it's becoming easier and easier to just train in "mixed martial arts"...so maybe that would appeal to you?

One thing on Judo...getting thrown around repeatedly is hard, one. It's one reason, for better or worse, a lot of BJJ gyms are training stand up less and less. Not that you can't find a gym that emphasizes it still.

#10 pharmer

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Posted 13 July 2021 - 06:14 AM

Yeah, the being thrown to the ground is for young people. One more reason, if Judo is the choice,  to start kids early.

 

Forty year olds learning to breakfall and being thrown are a recipe for arthritis.



#11 rockyfungus

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Posted 29 August 2021 - 10:20 PM

Nearing 40 and just had a nasty fall. Been going a little crazy not being able to skate. Week out and no major issues just gravel coming to surface.

Been practicing various falls. Used to feel normal to somersault and now I need Dramamine lol. Guess I’m getting old.

Hope no arthritis, runs in family and I haven’t been kind to this sack of flesh

#12 TVCasualty

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 10:26 AM

I like (and trained in) JKD because it emphasizes street fighting (real defense, not competition) and not going to the ground, which is a terrible idea on the street but works great in a competitive fight with a soft floor and rules. San Soo (a form of kung fu) is also excellent for street defense (though hard to find instructors for) and what I started with with I was a kid.

 

You don't see JKD or San Soo dominating MMA because almost everything we trained to do is illegal in competition. If I were to get into the octagon and fight a trained MMA fighter according to the rules then they would probably hand me my ass real quick as most of my reflexive responses are against the rules. But when the rules don't apply then my chances of winning are very good. There's no hold I can't get out of fairly easily unless it's one that also immobilizes my adversary.

 

That is, if someone puts me into a hold I can't get out of (good luck getting me into it in the first place!) then that means all they will be able to do is maintain the hold until they get tired. They won't be able to make me move somewhere else or really do much of anything (they could still injure me by overextending whatever they're holding, etc.). But the moment their grip loosens so they can do something else it's go time, even if that means tearing off large chunks of their flesh or an ear or something with my teeth, or ripping their junk off with my free hand.

 

I also did a lot of tactical knife/stick/firearm/multiple adversary training which aren't really emphasized much in MMA but are important to be ready for on the street. I suspect that trained fighters are sometimes defeated on the street even by untrained meatheads because they lack the willingness to inflict truly horrifying brutality upon their attacker. Most self defense schools under-emphasize this since it's awkward to discuss and advocate such brutality or to intentionally develop a "killer instinct" but survival can be a very nasty, brutal business.

 

Granted, someone who trains BJJ, or for that matter any martial art to a high level will be capable of quickly defeating ~95% of the people they're likely to encounter in a self-defense scenario but for that last 5% you need a little more than what traditional or competitive forms offer (in my opinion and experience). Also, if a real life-or-death street fight lasts longer than 2 seconds then you're doing it wrong.

 

I got to where I was an assistant instructor for a while and would advise prospective students to explore an MMA-oriented gym or school instead if they were interested in competition since the habits ingrained in one context aren't ideal in the other. IMO we need to pick one (self defense or competition) and focus on it. That said, it's good to train BJJ anyway just to understand what you'd be up against and how to counter it since so many people train it now.

 

Just knowing how to sprawl is very helpful; if someone shoots and you do it right and slam them into the ground as you land on top of them it hurts them a hell of a lot worse (and might take all the fight right out of them) than if it happens in the octagon or on a soft, squishy gym mat. Granted, there's also a lot of street-specific stuff in BJJ that is illegal in competition but if you train for competition you won't habituate those techniques and so are much less likely to use them in a real fight (since we fight like we train).

 

Also, JKD still works great when you're older and not so strong anymore. That's not really the case with grappling. I've never wanted to end up grappling with someone on the ground, even when I was young and invincible!

 

Much of JKD was based on Wing Chung, which was developed by two women as a way to defeat larger, stronger attackers (and one General in particular who was being a real asshole). Or so the story goes, but it does seem plausible once you start learning it. Besides Wing Chung, JKD was also based on elements of Western boxing (a VERY effective marital art) and European fencing (for the footwork).

 

That said, it's real hard to find GOOD instructors of JKD. Many muck it up by adding stuff to it which is the opposite of what Lee was trying to accomplish in creating it (but adding to it feeds their ego, I guess).

 

That's my two cents on the subject, for whatever it's worth.



#13 TVCasualty

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 10:34 AM

Learn how to run, it may not seem manly but it is the easiest and most potent defense anyone can muster

 

Wrestling was how I won most of my street fights, unless the guy knows how to land a good punch. Then the rush can be dangerous but I found a simple judo trip was enough to disarm most opponents. Basic training can go a long way when applied practically

 

 

That's a very effective approach that is under-emphasized in self-defense training (IMO).

 

The goal of self defense is to get yourself and your loved ones home safely and uninjured, not to "win" a fight.

 

And running like hell is usually the best way to achieve that goal. Sometimes you get chased though, or are cornered. So my self defense philosophy is to try to walk away first. If that fails then run like hell. If chased and/or cornered then kill.


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#14 Severian

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 11:22 AM

I've been in one fight, years ago; which unfortunately occured whilst I was peaking on LSD during an attempt to stop my heroin-dealer neighboor from entering my house and selling dope to a roommate who was trying to get clean.

 

Eeee. Let's say that that type of 'seeing red' adrenaline and LSD are an interesssssssssting chemical cocktail I hope never to experience again.

 

Dude was 4-5 inches taller than me and outweighed me by about 60 pounds.

 

But thanks to my high-school wrestling experience, I managed to end up with him on the ground, and myself on top of him with my hand on the back of his face, with his head a few inches from the concrete in front of my apartment with an incredilble gravity between his forehead and the pavement. Luckily my roommate was there to stop me from doing something I might have regretted seriously...

 

 

 

I relate the story because the knowledge of the body mechanics of grappling is hugely practical.

 

 

Rocky- I reckon our body shapes are similar; I'm 5'5, and weigh 140; broad shoulders, low center of gravity, been doing yoga for years; though just recently started getting into calisthenics style strength training;

 

 

One more suggestion; given the arthritis comment.

 

From what I've learned so far in my study/practice of the calithesnics (and nutrition); is that the ligaments and tendons and joints are the first thing to go when it comes to injuries; because most disciplines don't adequately take their health into account- Take traditional 'lifting weights' strength training for example; it's focused entirely on lifting heavy weights, ie on building muscle; instead of the low-weight, high-rep type of exercises necessary to build up tendon strength;  It takes longer to build up tendon strength than it does to build up muscle; so it's entirely possible to build up the necessary muscle strength to lift a certain weight, whilst not yet having the necessary tendon-strength to do so safely...

 

The body-weight only strength training has been super helpful for me in addressing this (I've managed to both aggravate some latent tendonitis, and to fix it once I understood how this operates.

 

A very indepth, easily accessible book that I highly highly highly recommend is called 'Overcoming Gravity' A systematic approach to gymnastics and bodyweight strength training.'

 

 

Also, on the nutrition front. Two words. Bone. Broth. The stuff is crucial for the collagen and gelatin content; Forget the glucosamine supplements and make up a big batch of broth to put in the freezer. Not only is it delicious, but it makes it easier for the body to digest protein taken with it, heals leaky gut, can help fix mood problems, bone issues; It's a super-under rated medicine that's been used for millenia; Check out Sally Fallons book 'Nourishing Broth' for some good science on the topic as well as plenty of recipes. 

 

It could be because of my wrestling, and also because of the years I've spent wandering around with all of my worldy belongings in a pack on my back; but the joints are something my bodies been prone to expressing issues in; I've found bone broth to be a huge huge huge help.


Edited by Severian, 30 August 2021 - 11:23 AM.


#15 rockyfungus

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 01:41 PM

I make chicken stock on the regular. Part of an elimination diet I half ass a lot. Organs and all.

I lifted for years but never wanted to get big. As a surfer and skier I always suspected their was a balance between lean muscle, flexibility, and core. I’m already top heavy for 5’6”.

I’m looking for gym equipment because the skating and lack of calories has me close to 110…my appetite is awful.

Most recent lifting for a year I did a 5x5 plan. Nice mix of strength/tendon I’d imagine balancing that weight for 5 sets. Was odd going from throwing weight to more of a marathon style. I incorporate the yogic breathing and lift slow

#16 August West

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 05:00 PM

Forgot. Here's a fun conversation about avoiding fake martial arts.

 

[Direct Link]

 

If you have time to kill, there's some funny shit here, too: https://www.youtube....user/McDojoLife


Edited by August West, 30 August 2021 - 05:00 PM.

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#17 TVCasualty

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 05:54 PM

I would never kill time unless it tried to corner me!

 

And for that matter I wouldn't try to poke someone in the eye if they already had me in a RNC, mainly because I'd want to die from embarrassment for ending up in that position in the first place, but also because there are better ways out of one. In any case if one is not trained in escaping a particular hold or joint lock or whatever then that's what small, easily accessible blades are for. Or a pistol, ideally. Both of which are just as illegal in competition as tearing someone's carotid artery or whatever out with your teeth (which incidentally is not something I was ever taught to do but if it's the only option left then I'd give it a try).

 

People like Rutten have a bit of a skewed perspective on fighting since they're in the top 0.5% of fighters who can defeat almost anyone who isn't armed (and Rogan is only slightly behind them, plus trains with many who are at that level) so they laugh about stuff that probably won't work on them but works very well against the majority of people who are likely to start shit on the street, which well-trained professional fighters almost never do.

 

 

People who got all their instruction from YouTube videos and action movies instead of drilling over and over for years, on the other hand...

 

[Direct Link]

 

 

I stand by my "if it lasts longer than 2 seconds then you fucked up" rule. So far I've not fucked up when it's come to it, but the vast majority of the time walking away has been enough.

 

 

 


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#18 August West

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 06:04 PM

I loved the Onion when it was funny.

 

This is one from The McDojo Life youtube channel I linked to. They can be a little long occasionally but the subject of this one is pretty awesome: 


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#19 TVCasualty

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 06:27 PM

That Onion clip was a few years old, so I'm assuming it was back from when they were funny?

 

I just posted this in another thread today: https://twitter.com/...420336906104836 (filed under: Half an Inch From a Darwin Award)

 

 

I'd like to see a huge brawl between the people McDojo makes fun of and the people Bullshido makes fun of. I imagine there would be lots of focused Chi attacks and Death Touches. It would be epic. :ph34r:


Edited by TVCasualty, 30 August 2021 - 06:27 PM.

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#20 August West

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 06:45 PM

That video was hilarious. I think it said it was 2014. Or at least posted then. Those were funnier days.

 

Thanks for the Bullshido link. I will check it out...


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