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tiny fruits


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#1 liferider

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Posted 15 July 2021 - 08:15 AM

i am fruiting two shoe boxes of agar > rye berries > coir and the fruits are all about 1-2cm tall and have finished growing and even started to shrivel. most have aborted i think because they look black, and a few seem to have lived a full life but are still the same size as the aborted ones.

there are plenty of side pins all over the place, but i did not use a lining.

i know the shoe box was too wet. i thought it was okay at first but pools of water formed after a couple of days. i left them anyway so i am guessing they were either contaminated due to the excess water, or just too wet to grow properly? can that cause this to happen?

i know i need to try again with a drier tub, but i wonder if i can cut all these fruits away and try for a second flush. is it worth my time or is the whole thing going to end up the same?

i have attached a picture of one of the boxes. they are both the same and were both equally as wet. sorry about the bad quality.

thank you for the help


tiny.jpg


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#2 livefrom215

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Posted 15 July 2021 - 08:55 AM

What strain is this? Whenever you see water pooling you should not allow to stay there... you can take a qtip and use the tip to soak up the little pools or the corner of a paper towel. Im not sure if that is what caused your tiny fruits and all those aborts, very well could be though. Im still pretty new to this and have not ran into this issue before. I mean I have had plenty of aborts and small fruits but not to this degree. Hopefully someone with more experience can confirm your suspicions. Def will be a learning experience for us... keep pushing forward though!! Much love bro


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#3 MushLuvR

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Posted 15 July 2021 - 09:23 AM

A liner doesn't stop Side Pins... Side Pins happen or occur when it's a better environment than your surface area.  This is caused by two things(mainly) your surface conditions are too wet or too dry.  Too dry and it just wont PIN(very few) on the surface, too wet(which looks like your issue) and you get pins, and then aborts if you don't increase Air exposure.  I have had trays of Cubes pool up in a Martha playing with Humidity and I just dumped off the excess and since the Martha gets plenty of FAE, no issues fruited fine and no contamination.  The trick is to leave them alone pre pinning, I expose the tub once a day(non Martha) to check the surface and fresh air and a light spritz if needed(you want beads everywhere), Fine mist is key and spray up above the tray and let it fall down and you will get tiny droplet beads everywhere.  You are just keeping the surface in prime condition for pinning, once pinning happens(first sign even if it's One Pin), leave them alone for a day or two(longer if PE) no misting at all in Pin development stage, stick with one air (visual check)exchange a day and just STOP everything.  Once pins are Set... Air equals evaporation which gives you that micro climate you are looking for at surface level(fuzzy feet equal WET feet.. Air is needed).  At this point, you will have plenty of water in the sub and shouldn't need to give them any water, unless your pinset is so dense and sub starts to shrink(if this happens you will be HAPPY to water) then you could bottom water, but I don't find it necessary usually(Again PE is different, my AA+ is done in two days once pins are set and I pop the Air corks so to speak and no water at this point needed). Add Air to that tub and watch her BLOOM!

 

The good news is you can get that sub back in order, strip the surface(of big ones and aborts leave healthy pins) and dehydrate the fruits or put them in a box lid with a fan in a pinch.   Then just concentrate on letting the surface dry out a bit(not completely EVER) and add Air for fruiting.  Second or third flushes can be amazing sometimes, the AA+ I grew(Martha 2 flushes flipped lid 2 flushes) hit big 1st and 3rd flush with the Second having the Big Ones so you never know.  All the Best

 

MushL 

 

P1100321.JPG

 

P1100322.JPG

APE tray... H manure, Coco, Verm and

Gypsum.  Check the Beads!   :meditate:


Edited by MushLuvR, 15 July 2021 - 09:33 AM.

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#4 liferider

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 02:01 AM

thank you both for the help.

the strain is golden teacher. i have already done two shoe boxes from the same strain and they were the expected size.

i thought about dabbing the pools out with tissue but was concerned i would do more damage :) should have asked here earlier.

 

i will go for another flush today. i will not soak the substrate, i will just float it to remove all the mushrooms then set it up for fruiting again.

 

i'm not sure i want to eat those fruits. the black ones are very questionable :) are they okay to eat? will they be significantly different strength to weight ratio? i have read that pins are stronger pound for pound, is that true? thank you very much for the help and advice


Edited by liferider, 16 July 2021 - 02:04 AM.

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#5 ElPirana

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 07:09 AM

A liner doesn't stop Side Pins... Side Pins happen or occur when it's a better environment than your surface area.

Maybe it depends on how you’re fruiting. I’ve found that liners have helped me tremendously in reducing side pins while fruiting in tubs. The liner sticks to the sub, as the sub shrinks and pulls away from the edges of the tub, the liner moves with it. This ensures that there isn’t a better environment on the sides of the sub because the sides aren’t even exposed to air, therefore no pinning. This isn’t always the case, I’ve had a few aggressive strains that would fruit under the liner anyway, but much more often than not liners work well.
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#6 MushLuvR

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 07:32 AM

It's as simple as... if your pinning on the sides, your surface area isn't optimal(it's common to fan too much before pinning and end up with a dry surface too fast).  There are many people(including myself) who don't use liners and No side pins.  Liners are a crutch, if you like them for easier cleanup then that's something else(I compost my subs so it's a dump into the pile situation for me).  I find it to be an old school wasted step(no judgment from me) myself, but it's like I always say... It doesn't matter how you get to the finish line®... Crossing is all that matters.  All Good.   :chucks:


Edited by MushLuvR, 16 July 2021 - 07:35 AM.

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#7 ElPirana

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 09:21 AM

It's as simple as... if your pinning on the sides, your surface area isn't optimal(it's common to fan too much before pinning and end up with a dry surface too fast).  There are many people(including myself) who don't use liners and No side pins.  Liners are a crutch, if you like them for easier cleanup then that's something else(I compost my subs so it's a dump into the pile situation for me).  I find it to be an old school wasted step(no judgment from me) myself, but it's like I always say... It doesn't matter how you get to the finish line®... Crossing is all that matters.  All Good.   :chucks:

You may be right that it’s a crutch, but at least for me it’s a crutch that works! lol
I often don’t have time to mess with my tubs the way that I would like, so I don’t always get em dialed in perfectly.
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#8 MushLuvR

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 10:37 AM

I used liners back in the day as well, in my opinion, use Em' or DON'T makes no difference(I've seen painting tubs black like... :huh:, but we all have to remember that "teks" are recycled and people pave there own way and will always try to put there own spin on things) .  I've read debates about trash bags that string on for days it's like... WHY... FRUITING is all that counts in the end.  I used to pasteurize everything, Coco subs, Manure whatever, flame on IDGAF, it's MY process and I do as I please.  Do you have to pasteurize Coco, negative, but it's the process that's important to me, NOT throwing boiling water on it and calling it a procedure.  Anyway, opinions are like Chevy's, everyone has one.  


Edited by MushLuvR, 16 July 2021 - 10:38 AM.

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#9 livefrom215

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 01:08 PM

Mush- I completely agree with you. I started with the Uncle Bens tek and once I figured out how to get them to fruit I pretty much took everything I had read and used what worked and forgot the rest. I think its best to find what works for you and go from there... once you have a solid foundation then you can start playing around with things. Much love everyone-- def going to chomp down a few grams tonight and enjoy my evening!!!! I want to go deep tonight and see whats down there lol


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#10 MushLuvR

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 02:36 PM

As long as you stick to what works, everything in between means JACK.  Good grain Prep(or cakes if that's your thing), Sterilization, and Clean culture Inoculation(I prefer AGAR, but I do LC's here and there) isn't going to fail EVER.  Not much to go wrong with Coco only and Clean spawn(unless it's overly wet and Zero Air, buy gapped lids, NO rubber seal).  Even then, probably still get a flush out of her before Trich takes over. 


Edited by MushLuvR, 16 July 2021 - 02:37 PM.

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#11 liferider

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:50 AM

thank you all for the advice.

i started picking off all the pins but there are THOUSANDS of them. i am sure i missed some black ones but i decided the tub was a loss anyway and decided to give it a chance at a second flush as it was. i think it might be too dry now but i will give it a chance and see how it does.

for now i will start isolating some mycelium on agar ready to move another batch forward and chalk this off to a learning experience.

 

thank you all for the help



#12 MushLuvR

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 08:34 AM

Just don't let the surface dry out like the Sahara Desert and you will be fine.  Mush Vibes.   :meditate:


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#13 liferider

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 11:09 AM

Just don't let the surface dry out like the Sahara Desert and you will be fine.  Mush Vibes.   :meditate:

awesome, thank you. it is definitely somewhat wet in there, the sides are mostly covered in condensation, but the surface seems much drier. i did spray them a little but i don't want to overdo it. i will just be better next time around :)

 

thanks


Edited by liferider, 18 July 2021 - 11:09 AM.

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#14 MushLuvR

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 01:06 PM

All good, there is a learning curve, but once you get what they need(not what you "think" they need or what you want to give them), you can grow just about any type of mushroom.  Cubes are pretty straight forward and can be neglected and do ok, but what set me over the top(as a grower in general) was getting a Martha and a simple cycle timer and learn wet to dry cycling(knowing what I know now, get a controller, humidity goes up when you are sleeping and it's easy to wake up to Wet blocks).  King Oysters(and Blues) taught me about FAE and the light bulb just went off.  I was cycling from 92% to 85% every ten minutes and the first 3 minutes stays at 92-93% after that, it drops FAST.  Shiitake Blocks dry to the touch so I could of stepped it up, always learning, adjusting, enjoying.  


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#15 liferider

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 05:16 PM

All good, there is a learning curve, but once you get what they need(not what you "think" they need or what you want to give them), you can grow just about any type of mushroom.  Cubes are pretty straight forward and can be neglected and do ok, but what set me over the top(as a grower in general) was getting a Martha and a simple cycle timer and learn wet to dry cycling(knowing what I know now, get a controller, humidity goes up when you are sleeping and it's easy to wake up to Wet blocks).  King Oysters(and Blues) taught me about FAE and the light bulb just went off.  I was cycling from 92% to 85% every ten minutes and the first 3 minutes stays at 92-93% after that, it drops FAST.  Shiitake Blocks dry to the touch so I could of stepped it up, always learning, adjusting, enjoying.  

sounds fun! i have already been thinking about what mushrooms to grow next. i will add those to my list. i want to learn everything :)


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