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"The Manufacturing of a Mass Psychosis - Can Sanity Return to an Insane World?"


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#1 August West

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Posted 30 July 2021 - 01:57 AM

Valuable "channel" imo...

 

Peace y'all.

 

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#2 TVCasualty

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Posted 30 July 2021 - 08:55 AM

Great video, lots of food for thought. I'll have to watch it twice since the art used for much of the imagery was kind of distracting (because most of the images were worth exploring in their own right, so I guess I'm saying they almost did too good of a job on it).
 
Apparently lots of people are (or were) aware of this phenomenon, or maybe it's just lots of philosophers (quotes in the panels below are from Nietzsche):
 
insanity
 
 
I'm all about the "weapon of ridicule" when it comes to this stuff. It's one of the few contexts where reactionary meatheads can't shoot back!
 

zlaughter

 

 

I suppose my attempts to get something going at my friend's farm so that she doesn't have to sell it are about creating a parallel structure to help those involved get the hell out of increasingly-totalitarian Dodge.

 

Framing it appropriately might help generate more interest, though a bit more collective suffering will probably do the trick, too since I imagine there are a lot of farmers (etc.) in the western U.S. assessing their options for moving somewhere that has a reliable water supply and a hell of a lot less fire (for now). I bet if she holds on to it for a little longer there will eventually be a bidding war over it as the inevitable (IMO) mass-migration of American global warming refugees head towards wherever there's enough water, which is mostly in the Midwest and East.

 

So knowing about how this stuff works is only half the battle; if we don't want to wait for Chaos to work its magic and spontaneously undo the increasingly pathological and totalitarian Order that's emerging (and we probably don't want it to end it that way since it'll take civilization down with it if it does) then we have to actually DO something about it, too. Like creating parallel structures, for starters.


Edited by TVCasualty, 30 July 2021 - 08:57 AM.

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#3 shiftingshadows

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Posted 30 July 2021 - 11:25 PM

.    Seems strange to me to equate victims of totalitarianism with mass psychosis. Folks in dictatorships are wise to be cautious about sticking out and getting tortured, and/or sent to prison, or forced labor camps for life.

 

.     Next example is that dictators suffer from illusion, again dictators (and their staff) are relatively few, while those who believe the nonsense of religions (like the virgin birth etc.) number in the millions (or billions?); so again it seems a strange choice, if one wants to discuss,  how the masses are out of touch with "reality".

 

.   Given this sloppy approach it fails to maintain my interest.

 

.   Incidentally the art work is by H. Bosh, who was a Christian, and Christianity & religion are the subjects he dealt with, although to this day people's interpretations as to his meanings, are contradictory, in spite of the  interpretations having intricate parts that fit together nicely.

.    Bosch lived in a time when the Spanish inquisition was happening, in Europe, when people were tortured and burned at the stake in public, this was also not a mass delusion, but a power play by the church to wipe out opposition, and it was dangerous to publicly oppose it.


Edited by shiftingshadows, 30 July 2021 - 11:43 PM.


#4 TVCasualty

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 09:00 AM

.    Seems strange to me to equate victims of totalitarianism with mass psychosis. Folks in dictatorships are wise to be cautious about sticking out and getting tortured, and/or sent to prison, or forced labor camps for life.


 
Totalitarianism is kind of like patriarchy in that it can't exist without the cooperation of a critical mass of its victims (which includes all of us). It requires a lot of people to do all that surveillance, kidnapping, torture, murder, and covering-up.
 

One of the more bizarre quirks of human psychology is our propensity to screw ourselves by acting contrary to our own interests thanks to evolutionary artifacts like cognitive dissonance (which is relatively harmless in a hunter-gatherer world but presents serious problems in a high-tech one, as we're seeing). One of the more common ways we screw ourselves is by falling for the Hero Myth, as if all it takes to save us from ourselves is a sufficiently-strident, charismatic high-functioning psychopath.

 

And when they/we drink the proverbial kool-aid, they/we don't think of themselves/ourselves as being tools of oppression or that they/we might be evil (or terrible human beings if one doesn't believe in "evil"). Quite the contrary.
 

Here's a happy Summer Camp photo of the relaxed and playful staff of Auschwitz having a blast in the halcyon days of 1942(!) with the "SS Auxiliaries" (women who belong to a club whose purpose is to hang out with and entertain SS Officers, apparently):

 

SS-auxiliaries-poses-at-a-resort-for-Aus

 

 

The concentration camp photo album that that image came from was notable and disturbing for what it didn't chronicle, which was any evidence of any atrocities at all. Except for the SS uniforms it looks like a typical vacation photo album. If they leave out such imagery it means they damned well know what they're doing is fucked up, and they're doing it anyway.

 

 All the people in that photo were ultimately victims of the totalitarianism they helped to create, they just didn't realize it until the Russian Army showed up in '45.

 

A Dictator might be an individual, but as The Dictator's Handbook points out, "no man rules alone." Just ask Henry Kissinger. A short, animated version of the points raised in that book is pretty good IMO. I bought it in case I ever get elected to the Board of an HOA.
 
 

.     Next example is that dictators suffer from illusion, again dictators (and their staff) are relatively few, while those who believe the nonsense of religions (like the virgin birth etc.) number in the millions (or billions?); so again it seems a strange choice, if one wants to discuss,  how the masses are out of touch with "reality".

 
 
Could you clarify the point you're making here? I honestly don't get it.


Edited by TVCasualty, 31 July 2021 - 09:03 AM.

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#5 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 09:33 AM

I think the issue is more complex than this, there are many players in such a regime and this is a quick summary, but something to consider. Do the Cult of personality types only hold power because of willing enforcers?

 

 

 

   The Lesser Known Adolf March 5th, 2014   Submitted by Davi Barker  

Adolf.jpgThe scientific study of authoritarian sociopathy really began with the Milgram Experiment, which found that 65% of otherwise psychologically healthy people would administer a lethal 450-volt shock to a complete stranger based upon nothing but the verbal prodding of an authority figure in a lab coat. 

 

What’s seldom pointed out is that Stanley Milgram designed his experiment in response to the chilling testimony of one Adolf Eichmann, a Nazi officer convicted in 1961. Adolf Eichmann oversaw the logistics of kidnapping and forcefully relocating people deemed enemies of the State to prison camps, and death camps in Nazi Germany. When people joke that the trains ran on time, they can thank Adolf Eichmann.

 

Commentators on his trial said that he appeared “ordinary and sane” and that he displayed “neither guilt nor hate.” Hannah Arendt’s book on the trial was titled “Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil.”During questioning he showed no remorse for his role in the murder of his passengers, and in his own defense he flatly repeated an all too familiar phrase:

“I was just following orders.”

In Eichman’s view he was acting upon the decisions of the State, which absolved him of all guilt. He coldly confessed to all his actions, but never acknowledged any personal responsibility.

 

What’s interesting about Adolf Eichman, when compared to those convicted in the Nuremberg Trials 16 years prior, is that this lesser known Adolf never killed anyone. Now, it’s a matter of historical debate whether or not Adolf Hitler ever directly killed anyone, other than himself. Historians dispute whether he killed his wife, Eva Braun, or she killed herself. In all likelihood Hitler took lives as a corporal in World War I, but it’s of little concern, because Hitler most certainly ordered the deaths of millions of people. Adolf Eichman never did that either. In his trial he was found not guilty of personally killing anyone, but he was still found guilty of crimes against humanity, and war crimes.

When the judges explained their reasoning during sentencing they repeated a quote in the transcript when he said:

“I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction.”

See, Eichmann’s crime was not simply obeying unethical orders which lead the death of his passengers. His crime was willfully and enthusiastically embracing the legitimacy of those orders. He believed in the rectitude of his actions, which is a different moral infraction that being forced to drive a train against his will.

 

Adolf Eichmann was an authoritarian sociopath, and I would argue that the Adolf Eichmanns of the world are far more dangerous than the Adolf Hitlers of the world. When atrocities are committed by militarized societies the perpetrators are usually a minority of the population, and the victims are usually also a minority of the population. It is the witnesses who are the majority, and thereby the most capable of meaningful intervention. This was perhaps best expressed by Irish philosopher Edmund Burke who said:

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

Although that begs the question, are those who do nothing really good? Without the Eichmanns of the world, the Hitlers have no capacity. When the evils of German National Socialism came to light, and the world was screaming “never forget,” and “never again,” only to promptly forget, and recycle those slogans a generation later, Stanley Milgram was asking the question, “How many Adolf Eichmanns are out there anyway?” In his final analysis, published in Psychology Today in 1975, Milgram wrote:

“I would say, on the basis of having a thousand people in the experiment and having my own intuition shaped and informed by these experiments, that if a system of death camps were set up in the United States of the sort we had seen in Nazi Germany, one would find sufficient personnel for those camps in any medium-sized American town.”

Statism is a mental disorder. That is not a euphemism, but a fact. There is a prevailing view in many societies that this thing, called the State, wields absolute supreme authority. In its wrath the State can smite their enemies, and enforce their prejudices. In its mercy it can heal the sick, and feed the poor. In its power it can turn paper into gold, and if they supplicate enough it can even change the weather. These people believe that society is the product of centralized violence, and not the aggregate of their own decentralized decisions. Those who deeply internalize “obedience to authority” as a core principle become capable of the worst forms of murder, and tolerant of the worst forms of abuse. They even chastise those who resist through horizontal discipline. But most importantly, they become capable of passively witnessing evil, and even facilitating it, believing, as Eichmann did, that their god absolves them of personal responsibility. 


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 31 July 2021 - 09:37 AM.

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#6 shiftingshadows

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 11:58 AM

@ TV --"Could you clarify the point you're making here? I honestly don't get it."

 

the subject is supposed to be MASS psychosis, not the aberrations of a small privileged segment of society, (such as Mao or Hitler in the movie, or these days Trump's narcissism & family dysfunction), which is the 2nd topic of the video.

 

Presumably this approach is supposed to make “the theory” sound impressive, when as I state, any slightly free thinking person, with slightly over normal IQ already knows, that millions of other folks believe in the contradictory & cockamamie ideas of all sorts of cults and various religions.

 

So the idea that there is some large segment of the population that is both “normal”, and realizing their potential as human beings, is a flawed, assumption to begin with.

 

Seems to me it Is only a fiction some find convenient. 

 

Another thing we already know is that almost all countries have no trouble most of the time, getting thousands of soldiers, to fight each to the point of death, and often a very gruesome one. One has only to watch a few minutes of historical movies’, battle scenes, to get that, before guns, these men often hacked and speared each other to death, in intimate contact, on a field where thousands were busy doing the same thing.

 

So the idea that men are primarily rational, and some mysterious new “theory” is necessary, to explain, why groups get together and do dumb things, seems unnecessary to me.

 

I’m sure Einstein didn’t miss going to football games, & watching grown men give each other future brain damage, while being surrounded by thousands of other “grown” men cheering, the absurd spectacle.

 

Seems to me we did not need Freud to tell us that the norm in fact is for people to be not only irrational, and self destructive, but to be so to a degree that is frankly appalling, more often than not.


Edited by shiftingshadows, 31 July 2021 - 02:58 PM.


#7 TVCasualty

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Posted 31 July 2021 - 03:57 PM

Thanks for adding some context.

 

IQ ain't all it's cracked up to be, thanks to that Cognitive Dissonance stuff. Many high-functioning psychopaths are extremely intelligent, after all.
 

Why smart people are more likely to believe fake news: Research shows that smart people are more susceptible to fake news and conspiracy theories – but why?

 

The article is about a book that came out in 2019 by David Robson titled The Intelligence Trap: Why Smart People Do Stupid Things and How to Make Wiser Decisions.

 

I guess my take is that "the aberrations of a small privileged segment of society" and mass psychosis are complimentary phenomena. They need each other for both to exist, and to "save the world" we'll need to break that pathological feedback loop (among others).

 

Not empowering lunatics by electing them to office thanks to Gerrymandering would be a good start. If we don't get on top of this really soon then there won't be elections anymore, with all that implies.

 

 

I’m sure Einstein didn’t miss going to football games, & watching grown men give each other future brain damage, while being surrounded by thousands of other “grown” men cheering, the absurd spectacle.

 

 

 

Probably not, but then none of the brain-damaged football players made nuclear weapons possible. Brain-damaged football players probably won't have any effect on me or my life, but nukes might.

 

Funny how it's all the smart, rational, mature, and "sane" motherfuckers who put our species at the most collective risk. There's probably some kind of important lesson or insight in there somewhere.

 

Things like football make more sense when viewed the way the people who are deeply involved view it, which is as a tight-knit community or family. There's a lot more to the football (or any sport) scene than the game itself as I discovered when I got to peek behind the curtain at the collegiate level a little.


Edited by TVCasualty, 31 July 2021 - 03:58 PM.


#8 shiftingshadows

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 06:23 AM

You make some interesting counter points. My main focus was simply on what seemed to be the premise of the movie, namely that something, mysterious was happening called “mass psychosis”. My view is that all cultures are a form of hypnosis. With the result that the majority of members or a culture, live a life that is both unnecessarily limited, and already out of touch with reality.

For example there really is no ‘Thursday’ or ‘Tuesday’ or ’12 o’clock’ , or day called “Thanksgiving” when one should stuff oneself, yet modern adult Americans take such fictions very seriously, and these are just trivial examples that come easily to my mind.

The example of men fighting in battles long ago and ending up dead or maimed, and imagining they are being ‘patriotic’, noble and so on, when in fact they are obeying orders, is perhaps more to the point, that most folks are in a sense asleep.

Whether we use the vocabulary of Buddha, (deluded or like a dream), Plato (and the cave & shadows), Freud (and the unconscious & repression), Gurdjieff (asleep) or Leary (game reality); all agree that the ‘normal’ state of mankind is NOT normal in the sense that it is so far from optimal as to be pathetic.
It for this reason that it seems to me, silly to pretend that some special ailment called “mass psychosis” is causing some special harm.

Many folks just can’t wait for the next riot or protest, to have an excuse for violence, and many others enjoy violence and need no excuse. We did not evolve directly from Chimps, but they are on the same family tree, (sort of like our cousins), and baboons are only a little more distant, so that much of our behavior is similar to theirs is not surprising, and like their behavior much of ours is violent too.

As you say IQ isn’t what its cracked up to be. In fact our fore brain of which “we are so proud”, probably takes a second seat to both hormones and the limbic system (and the latest is also the microbiome! in the gut as well), when in comes to control of mood and behavior.

Although BF Skinner is now out of favor, he did show along with Milligram, how easy it is to influence human behavior, as advertisers, lottery & casino businesses, and politicians have long known, regardless of how much academics debate “free will”.

One could go on and on…but as Buddha, Plato, Freud, Gurdjieff, & Leary, have already made the point, except, for the more recent science & history…

So my logic is simply that assuming something new and amazing called “mass psychosis” was happening, it would only be part of the dream and have nothing to do with the sleepers staying asleep, which seems to be what they mainly desire.
In fact one could say sleepers like to dream that they are being threatened by mysterious forces (like “mass psychosis”), just as they enjoy murder mysteries, spy thrillers, and horror movies. Anything but waking up.

Edited by shiftingshadows, 01 August 2021 - 06:27 AM.


#9 TVCasualty

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 10:19 AM

I didn't get the impression that the video was trying to claim that mass psychosis was anything new, since it referenced historic examples.

 

It seems to be a recurring phenomenon that occasionally erupts into large-scale, historically significant events (up to and including genocide).

 

We're not always engaged in some form of witch hunt against a demonized Other, after all. Usually we just look at those deemed "other" with suspicion and maybe try to avoid them as we go about our day but that's about it.

 

So it takes a special set of circumstances to inspire one group of people to start a wholesale slaughter of another group. But if those circumstances are present then people can even be "inspired" to murder their own literal neighbors in hideously brutal ways, something that does not normally happen. If it was the norm then civilization would not be possible.

 

So what causes these recurring instances of what are arguably forms of collective insanity?

 

I suspect that the worst of our collective behaviors (mass-murder, genocide) are partly a function of the dark side of empathy and the perversion of love; I doubt we can be inspired to work together to murder thousands or millions of others by fomenting hate of the Other alone. White supremacy is a typical example; hatred of minorities is only half of it since it won't work as a movement or ideology without its members or adherents also feeling that they belong to a righteous brotherhood doing "god's work" or some such BS.

 

I'd bet that everyone involved in committing genocide against arbitrarily-defined Others embodies a 50/50 split of love and hate. I use the term "love" loosely here since it's a crude, low-grade variety of "love" in the sense that it's conditional on arbitrary nonsense (being white, being Christian, being an incel, etc.) that would inspire someone to go out of their way to help someone in trouble they consider "one of us" while simply ignoring or even actively making things worse for one of "them" experiencing the same trouble.

 

I also suspect that there is an Evolutionary component to much of this otherwise-bizarre behavior.

 

It makes more sense (IMO) if we consider the fact that for most of our history as anatomically-modern Homo sapiens (~200,000-300,000 years) we were not the only highly evolved hominids around. Back in the day, the "others" we encountered were literally different species and that had to have shaped our behavior in ways that are likely still relevant. I suspect it explains racism, for starters (that is, racism might be an artifact of Evolution from a time when we were contending with several different species of hominids and now that they're extinct we turn that instinct on each other).

 

We're probably doomed because we've obviously won the evolutionary hominid war and took over the planet but are still interacting with each other as if we live in small villages that have to defend themselves from other non-human hominid species. The phenomenon of Dunbar's Number suggests we may not be able to change that as it could be a cognitive boundary condition we can only evolve beyond over millennia, not change consciously. This limitation doesn't seem very compatible with the global society and advanced technology we've created but don't know how to use sustainably, like little children who take the family car for a joyride and crash it a block away because how could they not? Assuming that the evolutionary 'street' we live on is 250,000 years long, our ~200 year joyride of industrialization is not even all the way out of the metaphorical driveway yet and we're already poised to crash.

 

I was trying to explore these questions about our nature in a thread I posted two years ago that went off the rails so I abandoned it but it might be time for another try: https://mycotopia.ne...uman-evolution/



#10 shiftingshadows

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Posted 01 August 2021 - 01:20 PM

Interesting points. Also of interest in this regard are some psychology experiments that show how easy it is to turn normal folks into brutish louts. One such experiment had to be stopped, because the results were so horrifying. And these are not the Stanley Milgram experiments or the ones that replicate his results even in different countries.

 

https://duckduckgo.c...ent&t=h_&ia=web

 

So one might want to ask what explains this?

 

Another such famous experiment showing something similar:

 

https://study.com/ac...experiment.html

 

https://duckduckgo.c...ice&t=h_&ia=web

 

Like wise there are many instances of the power of groups, to produce horrible behavior, from war crimes, even by American soldiers, as well as in gangs which even have codes to escalate callousness, and of course the police have a code, that tends to lead to corruption, even among those innocents who start out with good intentions.

 

I think psychologists have written about objectifying others as part of the process, but I can't opine on this. I can only say that it seems surprisingly easy to bring out the worst in people. And also surprisingly easy to get folks to die for, and/or become very emotional, about seemly obviously rather 2-dimensional or dualistic ideologies. The CIA, FBI, School of the Americas **,  and NSA have no problem finding recruits and thousands of employees.

 

** where the USA trains tortures etc.

https://duckduckgo.c...cas&t=h_&ia=web


Edited by shiftingshadows, 01 August 2021 - 01:25 PM.


#11 Myc

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 09:36 AM

"Can sanity return to an insane world?"

 

In a weird way, yes.

But that "sanity" will be scripted, white-washed, and handed-down to you once you've come into compliance as a result of coercion (promotion of insanity, instability, uncertainty, etc.)

 

"Floggings will continue until such time as moral improves."


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#12 ilikethings

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 08:02 PM

Word. @Myc.  If only there was a way to privately contact me to discuss forming a new country in a tropical paradise where the people welcome us....O wait I think there is such a place and now is the time to act!  :)  I just need a small brain trust to come with me on the initial investigative trip.  Ideally, I need an electrical engineer, a surveyor, and a person familiar with building roads and earthen dams, i.e. familiar with operating sheep-rollers and soil compaction--which requires specific moisture control--similar to husbanding myc.  The plan is to build a dam with powerhouse providing a persistent min output of 200kw of electric generation capacity.  see:

[Direct Link]


Edited by ilikethings, 02 August 2021 - 08:09 PM.


#13 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 09:31 AM

Perhaps it is the title of this thread but it seems like a good time for me to try to read that manufacturing consent book. Not really new ideas but ones that need to be refreshed.

 

There is talk about realizing we are in the fairy tale, well in order to do that first we have to stop listening to the storyteller.

 

Sanity, Reality

 

All is agreed upon by nine wise men, leaving the tenth man a rope and a chair



#14 TVCasualty

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 06:51 PM

Word. @Myc.  If only there was a way to privately contact me to discuss forming a new country in a tropical paradise where the people welcome us....O wait I think there is such a place and now is the time to act!  :)  I just need a small brain trust to come with me on the initial investigative trip.  Ideally, I need an electrical engineer, a surveyor, and a person familiar with building roads and earthen dams, i.e. familiar with operating sheep-rollers and soil compaction--which requires specific moisture control--similar to husbanding myc.  The plan is to build a dam with powerhouse providing a persistent min output of 200kw of electric generation capacity.  see:

[Direct Link]

 

Tennessee is arguably tropical for some of the year, and becomes more so more of the year, every year: https://mycotopia.ne...-save-the-farm/






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