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Small dogs with big issues.


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#1 Coopdog

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Posted 13 August 2021 - 01:46 PM

We have a Chihuahua who has some medical issues, namely congestive heart and collapsing trachea. My wife's brother has similar dogs with similar issues. Recently she went over there and all of them were coughing very hard, and she thought it was probably kennel cough, which can kill them. She of course googled it and came up with a product called "Kennel Cough" and bought him a bottle. 

 

In 3-4 days it had completely cleared up, and two of those dogs also had collapsing trachea syndrome, and oddly enough that got very much better as well. She bought a bottle for us and sent it here, and today is day 4. Normally my dog wakes up all excited, crawls over here for our morning lovies, then goes into coughing spasms for 5 minutes or so. It's so painful to watch because this little guy has so much enthusiasm, but every time he gets wound up he has to pay that price. 

 

The day after the first dose, it was markedly better. The next day, better still. This is day 4 and he went hog wild like he was a puppy, zoomies all over the place, barking his fool head off. Not a single cough! I will let you know if this lasts long term, but the results are amazing, and I am so sad I let him go so long taking strong heart meds only, and still having all the symptoms. His entire demeanor is better, and it makes my day to see him all wound up and no issues immediately following. 

 

The funny thing is, I have been wheezing at night with all the wildfire smoke and controlled burns going on where I live at, and I had picked a couple handfuls of Mullein to make tea with. I am also on day 3-4 and slept with no wheezing last night. So much smoke here today the air is yellowish, and still no wheezing. Guess what the main ingredient in Kennel cough is? It's Mullein extract. 

 

My wife's brother said his dogs are 100% better now. I hope and pray mine continues to show good signs, but I think he is going to be better. So hey if your heart is breaking because of the collapsing trachea thing, give it a try. Purely anecdotal evidence here, but when it comes to my dog, I just want him to feel better. 

 

 


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#2 Skywatcher

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Posted 13 August 2021 - 03:29 PM

This is really good info, thank you Coop. I think it might help my partner so I'll do some reserch.

I have had dogs with that issue, but at this time, both of my furry friends are free from the cough. (They do however snore like crazy)


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#3 Coopdog

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Posted 13 August 2021 - 09:45 PM

Skye, I just read an account by someone with severe COPD who was made damn near 100% better just using Mullein. The doctors said there was no cure. I find this very interesting. COPD runs in my family but they all smoke cigarettes, I never have. I will certainly remember that story though if it comes up.


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#4 rockyfungus

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Posted 13 August 2021 - 11:50 PM

https://en.m.wikiped.../Ephedra_sinica

Another classic herb for breathing. Just careful if you have hypertension/heart issues
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#5 Coopdog

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 01:33 AM

Yep I always research anything I decide to work with. However, that being said, my pup has not had a single coughing fit all day, and he usually coughs all the time with his Trachea issues. Amazing that an herb can work wonders like that for him. I never woulda thought so because that is a physical issue more than one brought on by the environment. I am most impressed so far. Remains to be seen if it can be an occasional boost, or if he needs it full time, or even if that is good long term or not. Like I said I will report back as it goes. For now it is flat out amazing for the little guy. I hope that lasts, and will work out how it is best applied for his issues anyhow. 


Edited by Coopdog, 14 August 2021 - 01:34 AM.


#6 Coopdog

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 02:56 PM

Still not heard  single cough in two days. I'm very happy to see him feeling better. He's got that mad dog twinkle in his eye again! :)


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#7 Skywatcher

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 03:58 PM

I ordered some organic mullein in tea form from Buddha Teas. Not a huge amount, but around 20 bags. I think it has potential to help my partner with cough and difficulty breathing. I like the feedback I have been reading on it's beneficial effects, and the fact that it seems to have no negative or side effects.

 

I am anxious for it to get here and will leave some personal observations after a few test runs. My partner has severe asthma and level 2 congestive heart failure, so I don't expect any miracles, but I am hoping it might provide some relief in intensity of cough and make it a little easier to catch his breath when its a tough day.


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#8 Coopdog

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 12:07 AM

I love ya brother, and I hope this is as good for you as it has been with my puppers. He also has congestive heart issues, and struggles with fluid around his heart. Man I got to say he has been like a puppy again in the last few days. Having read how positive it is for COPD, I certainly hope and pray it works well for you and your partner as well. I know we are not dogs, but deep down, we all have things in common my friend. If you want I can send you some fresh Mullein leaf and flower when I harvest this huge one I have out back. 


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#9 swayambhu

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 04:07 AM

Thanks for this, my old bitch (of the 4 legged kind, har har) has this same heart/trachea thing, I will try this with her!
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#10 Coopdog

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 01:22 PM

I think you will be amazed! So far it's worked on all of ours that had these issues. The first two days he still coughed, but it was noticeably lessened. After that not much at all. He chuffed a couple times this morning, but he had been making a complete fool of himself for ten minutes or so, and it was very little, barely worth mentioning.


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#11 shiftingshadows

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 01:48 AM

.....

 

The funny thing is, I have been wheezing at night with all the wildfire smoke and controlled burns going on where I live at, and I had picked a couple handfuls of Mullein to make tea with. I am also on day 3-4 and slept with no wheezing last night. So much smoke here today the air is yellowish, and still no wheezing. Guess what the main ingredient in Kennel cough is? It's Mullein extract. 

 

....

 

Good info. Thanks, It may help a friend who coughs every morning. How many leaves, of what size do you use for a pot or cup of tea?



#12 Coopdog

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 08:26 PM

I bought a product called Kennel cough (Mullein extract) for my dog. I have been taking a tea bag size pinch of washed and dried leaves myself. 

 

Full disclosure, my Puppers had a little bit of chuffing this morning. Still NOTHING like before. As I said trying to figure out how best to use this stuff. I definitely noticed a little improvement in my own wheezing, but back to controlled burns in huge prairies here today, so I am pretty clogged up. Hoping that passes when the damn smoke clouds do. 


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#13 shiftingshadows

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Posted 17 August 2021 - 12:58 AM

Thanks, I will pass on the info., maybe he will try it. Its a handsome plant and easy to recognize, and grows wild in many places.


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#14 Coopdog

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Posted 19 August 2021 - 02:20 PM

So after a week approximately, He is chuffing in the morning  a little bit, but it is still a fraction as bad as before he got this stuff. Also makes it easier to get him to swallow his meds because my daughter administers this after the pill pops him, so he can't cheek a pill and spit it back out later, which he is really good at. It's a relatively small bottle, so I will let it run it run it's course and see if his coughing comes back like before or not. I will let you know. 


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#15 shiftingshadows

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Posted 19 August 2021 - 02:56 PM

:smile:



#16 Severian

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 05:35 PM

Coopdog, if your pups got heart problems; you might want to consider finding a tincture of hawthorne to give em. Hawthorne is the premier heart tonic, and is super super safe. https://www.christop...-for-the-heart/

Quote

I ordered some organic mullein in tea form from Buddha Teas. Not a huge amount, but around 20 bags. I think it has potential to help my partner with cough and difficulty breathing. I like the feedback I have been reading on it's beneficial effects, and the fact that it seems to have no negative or side effects.

I am anxious for it to get here and will leave some personal observations after a few test runs. My partner has severe asthma and level 2 congestive heart failure, so I don't expect any miracles, but I am hoping it might provide some relief in intensity of cough and make it a little easier to catch his breath when its a tough day.



Skywatcher; If I were you I'd do some research into Angelica. I sent you a pm.



Mullien is incredible.

Here's a monograph from an herbalist I like.

From www.herbcraft.org

Mullein

mullein Verbascum thapsus; V. olympicum
Mullein is an easily recognizable plant found in fields, meadows, and anywhere the ground has been disturbed in a wide array of habitats. It is a biennial, putting forth a rosette of fuzzy leaves upon the ground the first year, and sending up its characteristically tall yellow flowered stalk the second. After seeding, the plant dies. The dead brown stalk is an excellent indicator of where to look for first year rosettes, as they can often be found within 15-20 feet from the dead stalk. All parts of the plant offer an abundance of healing medicine.
mullein%20leaf.jpeg
Mullein leaves are the most commonly used part of the plant; easily identifiable and among the first remedies to be thought of in treating stuck congestion associated with dry coughs, as they are an excellent moistening expectorant. A gentle demulcent, mullein leaf aids the lungs in expelling drier mucus and phlegm by loosening it from the walls of the lungs and allowing it to be coughed up. Because of this, mullein may actually initiate coughing, even though that's the symptom being treated. What mullein is really doing here is assisting the body's natural response to congestion - coughing - to be more effective. Rather than coughing and coughing and coughing unproductively, mullein will get you coughing stuff up and out. When the coughing resolves, it's because the need to cough has been resolved, not because mullein acts in any way to suppress coughing. Mullein is especially good for treating hard, dry coughs that shake the frame of the body (often leaving the chest/ribs sore), and should be considered whenever one hears a hollow wheeze in a cough. A strong tea, the tincture, or syrups that include mullein can achieve this end. I often use a blend of mullein and plantain leaves when either mucus has dried out in the lungs, or when fine, dry inhaled irritants (dust, smoke, etc) form a "film" over lung tissue. Mullein combines well with myriad other herbs: marshmallow to increase its moisture even more, new england aster for quivering, spasmodic lungs and asthma, a bit of lobelia for more intense coughing spasms, wild lettuce if the uppermost reaches of the lungs feel dry and tight... I could go on and on. Although mullein is preferable for drier coughs, it is a gentle herb and usually will not aggravate damper coughs, especially if used with more appropriate warming aromatic herbs like osha, angelica, hyssop, sage or thyme.

Mullein leaf has a tradition of being smoked for respiratory issues as well, but smoking any herb limits its indications, and in the case of mullein, it changes them. ALL smokes are drying (because the inhaled ashes of the herb you burn have no moisture left in them, and will absorb moisture from the lung tissues they come into contact with) and hot (because you lit them on fire). So, smoked mullein is no longer indicated for dry coughs; it can indeed significantly aggravate them and interfere with the important immunological role that mucus plays by keeping it dry. Instead, smokes may be useful in some cases for wetter/damper congestion, giving it more body which allows it to be more easily coughed up and expectorated. I learned from herbalist Joyce Wardwell that mullein smoke can sometimes significantly ease the tension and spasm of whooping cough. In most cases, whisps of smoke are better than tokes. Burning mullein leaf and wafting the smoke to the person needing to inhale it is less irritating than smoking it directly out of a pipe or joint, and can be equally or more effective.

Mullein leaves are, of course, also commonly used in smoking blends... not to address respiratory issues, but just because people like to smoke plants. Many will say that smoking anything is inherently bad for you, though I think a good case can be made that this is a cultural prejudice. Mullein leaf really doesn't have a lot of flavor, and is used largely because it burns so well, and can help a blend that mixes harder roots and barks with softer, faster burning leaves smoke more evenly. If smoking for pleasure (or for ceremony), do try to keep your smoke blend just a wee bit moist; bone dry herbs are a harsher smoke. An apple slice in you mix for a bit can moisten it up. Also, smoke blend tip: Don't just mix a bunch of aromatic herbs into mullein leaf and expect it to be good. Smokes need body, and the plants that adds body to smoke blends are astringents.

Though seemingly rarely utilized for the purpose, mullein leaf has also been revered as a lymphatic herb. Folk herbalist Tommie Bass says it can be applied as a compress to any instance of glandular swelling. The physiomedicalist William Cook called mullein an "absorbent" of "peculiar and reliable power." He recommended mullein leaves be made into a strong decoction, and that used to wet more leaves which were then applied externally over the swelling. These lymphatic virtues reside in the root and flowers as well, and my preference is to use the flowers when focusing on the lymph and glandular swellings... more on that below.

Another mullein leaf use, combined with a warning: A LOT of people refer to large, fuzzy mullein leaves as potential toilet paper, but this may not be such a good use to explore. You see, a common folk name for mullein is "Quaker rouge", based on a use in which Quakers, not allowed to wear make-up, would rub their cheeks with the leaves to create a rosy "blush" effect. Why would that be? It's because those hairs, which superficially feel rather soft, are actually somewhat irritating to the skin (and more to some people than others), and the "blush" effect is the result of the inflammation of irritated tissues. My suggestion is that before you rub them on your nethers, try rubbing them on the inside of our wrist or elbow. If, in 10 or 20 minutes, it's all red and itchy, you'll be very happy you didn't try it on your crotch first. Mullein's fuzzy "hairs" can sometimes be irritating to the throat and GI tissues of some people even in teas and tinctures. While this is not super common, it does happen, so I usually recommend straining mullein leaf preparations through a paper coffee filter.

Tincture making tip: People say that because mullein leaf is so fluffy, you can't make a 1:2 tincture with it because the menstruum won't cover the leaves. But, if you use the right amount of leaf to an appropriately sized jar, you absolutely can. Start off with 10 ounces of chopped fresh mullein leaf, and cram it into a quart jar... it may take some packing. Then add 20 ounces of high proof vodka or ethanol. You want the alcohol covering the herb and right up to the lip of the jar. If there's still headroom, you can try adding another half ounce of dried leaf and another ounce of alcohol. As soon as its filled to the brim, you're golden. This 1:2 tincture of mullein leaf isn't really "stronger" (as in: more effective) than a folk style tincture where you just fill and pour, but it is more concentrated, so there's more mullein extractives and virtues in each drop.
mullein%20flower%20traci%20picard%20(2).
(pic by Traci Picard)
The flowers of mullein are likewise an important and exquisite remedy. An infused oil of mullein flowers is perhaps one of the first remedies to think of in treating an ear infection, easing pain and speeding recovery time. I think that mullein flower is specifically anti-inflammatory, analgesic and helps to move congested lymph when applied topically. Because the flowers are quite tiny, about the size of a kernel of corn, you'll need to have access to plenty of plants, and use a small jar so you're able to fill it (or you can grow Verbascum olympicum, which yields both more and larger flowers). The oil is simple to prepare: Find an abundance of flowering mullein, pick the flowers (be merciful to the little critters so often found in them!), let them wilt to reduce their moisture content (too much water can ruin infused oils) and let said critters escape. You can put the wilted flowers in a small mason jar filled to the brim with oil out in the sun for a few weeks, but because, even wilted, the flowers want to hold on to their moisture I prefer to extract them in a double boiler for a couple/few days... this is faster, and in my experience leads to a better oil. Once it's strained out, this oil can be applied with a dropper or Q-tip and allowed to work its magic, but never apply any kind of oil if the ear drum is perforated. Mullein flower oil is often combined with infused garlic oil, which is strongly antimicrobial, for ear infections, and any number of other plants could be added to compliment this duo (I like to add infused poplar bud oil for additional anti-inflammatory and pain relieving qualities). I've also used mullein flower oil topically to help resolve glandular swellings, and to treat infected piercings; perhaps combine it here with saint john's wort and plantain oils. It can be used to treat ear mites in animals as well. The flower oil has an old reputation for treating deafness, though I suspect this assertion likely refers to problems arising from the accumulation of wax, where the warm oil helps to clear this obstruction, or swelling of the ear canal, which its lymph moving properties might help to resolve. Prepared as a tincture and used both internally and topically, mullein flowers lymphatic action can also act to resolve swellings and ease the accompanying pain. I have used a combination of red root and mullein flower tinctures to treat an abscess in the ear canal, and ease the pain and swelling. I've used the same combination, along with ground ivy, to successfully resolve Meniere's Disease that was just beginning to manifest. Mullein flower, saint john's wort and jamaican dogwood tinctures have notably eased hypersensitive facial nerve pain in some people I've worked with. Occasionally (and seemingly more common in those of a hot/dry/choleric constitution) mullein flower tincture can also be mildly or even strongly relaxant, but I don't have my head wrapped fully around this.
mullein%20root.jpg
Though it has been used in various traditions, few people know about using mullein root for anything... and yet, it is an incredibly useful remedy; one of the most important in my practice. As far as I know, it was herbalist Michael Moore who introduced it as a remedy for treating urinary incontinence or loss of urinary control; he suggests that it tones and strengthens the trigone sphincter at the base of the bladder. Northern California herbalist Christa Sinadinos elaborates on this usage: "Mullein root is valuable as a bladder tonifying agent for the treatment of urinary incontinence (loss of urine with out warning.) It strengthens and improves the tone of the trigone muscle (a triangular area at the base of the bladder) and significantly enhances bladder function. It has soothing diuretic properties; it increases the volume of urination, while decreasing the frequency of urination. Mullein root also has mild astringent properties which reduce inflammation in the mucosa of the bladder. It does not irritate or over stimulate bladder or kidney function. Mullein root can be used as a long term tonic for individuals with urinary incontinence, recurring bladder infections, interstitial cystitis, and benign prostatic hypertrophy." Christa offers flat out exceptional insights on this usage here (please note that pages 2 & 3 are mixed up). To potentiate it's tonifying actions when addressing incontinence, I will usually combine it with a bladder astringent such as agrimony, wintergreen, or staghorn sumach leaves, stems and berries.

Like mullein flower, mullein's root also seems to allay some types of nerve pain, and can be helpful as a possible treatment for Bell's Palsy, an indication shared by David Winston. I use it primarily for facial and spinal-based nerve pain, usually in some larger formula which might include saint john's wort, sweet clover (Melilotus), prickly ash, and/or jamaican dogwood. Both topical and internal use seems to yield the best results.

But perhaps the thing I most use mullein root for is to facilitate "proper alignment" of the structural system, and here I know of no other plant that acts as virtuously. It may be that there are broken bones I need to be sure line up (indication via Matthew Wood, though he uses the leaves), but spinal misalignment is my primary indication. I can personally attest to mullein’s usefulness in treating spinal injuries, as I’ve used it for decades now. The first time I ever used it (and before I knew it could be used this way), I woke up with my back out. I couldn't stand up straight, and while my mouth was saying, "Ow, ow, ow..." within me I kept hearing "mullein root, mullein root, mullein root..." droning over and over in my head. After trying a bunch of other stuff, both herbal and physical, I drove out to a field where I knew it grew, and searched for it under the snow (mullein's fuzzy leaves insulate it and it usually overwinters). I found some, and as I was digging it up I "heard" Mullein root stores up energy the entire first year of its life to put forth its strong, straight yet flexible flower stalk; and using it gives us access to that stored energy. I chopped up a root, made tea, took a sip then a breath and was completely better. Really.
A year or so after that (in which time I'd used the root a few more times, always with rather amazing results), I suffered the rather dreadful disc herniation while, when changing a tire on the side of a dirt road my jack slipped and I jumped back away from the falling car with a heavy tire in my arms. Along with really subtle Grostic chiropractic work, I used the rather agonizing experience to figure out how best to treat this condition. I eventually ended up blending together a formula with solomon’s seal, mullein root, horsetail and the wee-est bit of goldenseal to excellent results. This being a more significant injury the effect was by no means immediate, but I could feel it working every time I took it. This blend was created not so much as a pain reliever, but to restore strength and integrity to the disc, connective tissues and fascia. To address the attendant muscle spasms (which were the worst part, in terms of outright agony), I used a combination of black cohosh and arnica tinctures, taken in frequent small doses to help ease the sensitivity & reactivity of the muscles. The results were excellent. I could literally feel the disc growing stronger and the muscles relearning how to be relaxed. Even now, numerous years later, if I overdo it and feel even a twinge of sensitivity in the disc, a few doses of some similar blend usually removes the discomfort. It's truly kick ass stuff.
Mullein root on its own, though, is also markedly effective. Prepared either as an infusion or taken in small doses as a tincture, it has been a lifesaver for me when working a bit too gung-ho has me wake up the next morning with my back "kinked" and not quite able to straighten up. I usually take about 7 drops of tincture, stretch out a bit, and I can feel myself shift back to alignment. It won't always work in one magical dose (though sometimes does), so take more as needed. While the occasions when this has dramatically reduced discomfort are too numerous to recount, it doesn't always work... does anything? But most of the time I feel that mullein is a key part in any blend for structural alignment I create, and I've seen otherwise identical blends be significantly less effective if mullein root is omitted.
Over the years as I've been using and praising it, countless others have found it useful as well. In one past visit to Michigan, Matthew Wood and I were talking about this little known use of mullein, and comparing and contrasting his use of the leaves with my use of the root. One of the participants, who, though completely new to herbalism and perhaps a bit overwhelmed by the onslaught of information, went the following week to get some mullein (leaves; the root is quite hard to find, commercially) and sent me an email another week later, saying, "I've suffered with a herniated disc (the one between the lumbar vertebrae and sacrum) since my son was 15 months old. I ended up being on bed rest on a cortisone "blast" for a week at that time. The disc is really thin and the area has been fragile since then. So, my back got really whacked out a couple of weeks ago and I didn't want to go the Motrin route. I purchased some mullein tincture at my local health food haunt and by the time I was half way to Commerce (from Ferndale) to pick my son up my back was feeling so much better... The mullein has been a life saver." This is just one story of so many that have been shared with me over perhaps two decades (and incidentally, this person is a fine herbalist now) . Mullein root is one of the things I get the most email about, from people whose injuries it turned around.
While I generally use the root as opposed to the leaves of mullein for structural and spinal alignment issues, I once had a remarkably lucid dream about how the leaves could be picked proportionally along the flowering stalk to the area along the spine that is kinked. Try it.

Perhaps, as opposed to a physical complaint, the need for alignment is more... esoteric: someone is scattered all over the place, and needs to focus and direct their energies in a more focused way. Mullein root may assist us in such a need. Try carrying some around with you, in your purse, in your pocket, in a medicine bag. Or take a few drops of tincture. Or rub a bit into your wrists or heart or temples.

These are all things I have direct knowledge and personal experience with, and I've largely left out things I've heard of but haven't tried (I've not yet bruised mullein and let it blacken to see to what degree that increases its pain relieving effects, or used mullein seeds to poison fish, or used the stalk as a drill to start friction fires...).

People think of some plants as "beginner plants"... plants that you learn right off the bat when you start getting into herbalism. Mullein is often seen as such a plant, because it is both safe and gentle and quite effective. But sometimes people then later think things like "Yeah, I know mullein and what it does...". What mullein has taught me is that we can't just learn some superficial uses of a plant and then think we "know" it, and if anyone is the beginner in the relationship, it's me.

Edited by Severian, 28 August 2021 - 05:48 PM.

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#17 rockyfungus

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Posted 29 August 2021 - 04:34 AM

Physician here and not a “herbalist “

Pretty certain Hawthorne has potential cardiovascular risk. Been a few years and I am so over doing research on complementary or alternative medicine.

Mullein I FEEL is harmless we smoked a ton back in the day. If these drugs are as active as herbalist say. Well I hope your only following their advice as we don’t know how these interact with traditional drugs. Especially if people can’t even agree which parts to use.

Let’s say these plants do what your herbalist says. How contaminated are they. How safe is their harvesting practice. How do you react to these plants. Is it even a herb and not just cellulose?

“In 2007, the FDA issued 9 safety alerts warning consumers to stop using 13 brands marketed as dietary supplements because testing identified undocumented prescription medications in them (78). Nine contained erectile dysfunction drugs such as sildenafil or tadalafil, 3 contained lovastatin, and 1 contained the weight-loss drug sibutramine.”


I have no issues with herbs. Just be careful. Out of 3,000 students I was probably 0.1% that believed in Eastern meds.

Turns out when communism happened and they had nothing. Super easy to convince people to go in the woods and eat random plants. Or is that propaganda?

Love ya’ll it’s early and I’m trying hard not to scold ya’ll. Do due diligence compare what the FDA, herbalist, pubmed and LABDOOR (tests).

#18 rockyfungus

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Posted 29 August 2021 - 04:40 AM

Mobile smoking a joint and too lazy.

“Hawthorn should be used with caution when combined with other herbs and supplements that have cardiovascular effects (e.g., danshen, epimedium, ginger, Panax ginseng, turmeric, valerian).19 There are theoretic interactions with antiarrhythmics, antihypertensives (vasodilators, ACE inhibitors, angiotensin receptor blockers, calcium channel blockers), cardiac glycosides (digoxin), vasodilators (phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitors), and antihyperlipidemic agents.13,21 Recent data suggest no notable interaction between hawthorn and digitalis glycosides and standard therapy for chronic CHF, but caution is still advised until more definitive data are available.18,22”

Please don’t give medical advice excellent way for someone with heart failure and the 30+ list of ACTIVE MEDS
To possibly have an interaction

#19 Severian

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 11:43 AM

Though, it's important to recognize that 'western medicine' is totally biased against a wholistic approach to treatment, the likes of which includes herbs that have safely been used for centuries.

 

And, as far as herb/drug interactions, Hawthorne is one of the safest herbs out there.

 

https://phcogrev.com...gRev-4-7-32.pdf

 

 

Drug/Herb interactions
Many different theoretical interactions between Crataegus and
orthodox medications have been postulated. None have been
substantiated. An interaction study between digoxin and Crataegus
preparation WS1442 concluded that both of these remedies
may be co-administered safely.[63] Three randomized clinical
trials and one observational study reviewed by Daniele et al.
involved concomitant use of cardioactive glycoside medications.[56] None of these studies raised any issues regarding herb/drug
interactions. Vasodilatory effects of hawthorn have been cited
as theoretically causing complications when used with other
vasodilatory agents (i.e., caffeine, theophylline).[54] No reports
of adverse effects relating to this issue have been cited to date.
Inotropic actions of hawthorn have been cited as potentially
affecting the hypotensive effects of beta blockers.[64] This
also remains unsubstantiated. The proposed theoretical herb/
drug interaction between Crataegus preparations and orthodox
medications remains theoretical, possibly due to the complex
effects of whole plant medicines upon the system

 

 

Side effects
Crataegus preparations have been consistently proven to be
well tolerated by patients with low/negligible levels of side
effects.[28,33,36,37,53-55] Daniele et al. looked at data from 24 clinical
trials and a total of 5577 patients.[56] They concluded that
hawthorn preparations are generally well tolerated and noted
that adverse effects were significantly lower in treatment
groups using WS1442. It was noted that Crataegus appears to
prevent dizziness rather than causing it. Further examination
of spontaneous reporting schemes highlighted 18 case reports
following Crataegus treatment, but stated that in many cases
insuffi cient data were supplied to prove any association between
Crataegus and specifi c adverse effects.[56] There appears to be no
substantial body of evidence to suggest that Crataegus causes
anything other than infrequent, mild adverse effects. There are
also no known contraindications to its use during pregnancy,[6]
although expert advice should be sought in this circumstance.
Crataegus demonstrates low toxicity, with an LD50 of 25 mg/
kg[57] and a high therapeutic index.[58

 

The impact of the phytochemical synergistic interactions
occurring within whole plant remedies is vital to a more intelligent
and rational understanding of the nature of their mechanisms
of action. Pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic interactions
have already been researched[65] in whole plant medicines and
the concept that identifi ed constituents, singly or in groups, do
not act in isolation but exert their effects in a more interactive
and synergistic manner has been increasingly postulated by
researchers.[15,25,66-69] This issue may well have relevance in the
question of drug–herb interactions, where the broad-based
nature of whole plant remedies poses a signifi cantly reduced risk.
This whole area requires further research if optimal therapeutic
benefi ts are to be derived.

 

It's super common, for the bias of western medicine, based on the theoretical groundwork of 'isolated active component given in high doses'  to come to the conclusion that, for example. Turmeric=Active component 'Curcurmin'; which then is used as the clinical ground for whatever research trial that then comes to find that Turmeric, when combined with drugs X, y or z, can have negative effects A, B or C; When in  reality, it wasn't even the herb itself that was used to make this determination, but the isolated 'active' component.

 

There's a wealth of studies out there that western medicine uses to spread suspicion towards traditional herbal medicine, that follows the above example. 

 

Of course, some herbs are more potent than others, and some definitely have more herb/drug interactions than others; and it's important to do ones own research and talk to a qualified practitioner of whatever modality it is.

 

But, in general. Whole herbs are MUCH safer than pharmaceuticals following the 'magic bullet isolated active compound' approach. And, many herbs, when taken as part of a compound, become 'safer' than they would when taken in isolation.
 

 

Never my intention to tell someone on an internet forum 'Oh! you should take this!'. full stop. Rather, to point out that there are wholistic options available that have a long-history of effective use, and to potentially put a remedy on someones  radar they may not already be aware of. 

 

Also, I'm never going to recommend anything to anyone that I'd reasonably feel could cause complications.

 

 

edit:  I want to say I do agree with your 'due diligence' comment. Just because it's "Herbal" or 'Wholistic' in no way means its effective or safe.... There are charlatans within every modality.


Edited by Severian, 30 August 2021 - 11:55 AM.

  • coorsmikey and rockyfungus like this

#20 rockyfungus

rockyfungus

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Posted 30 August 2021 - 12:55 PM

Thank you and I have an understanding of the basics. But we are not talking about homeopathic type doses right?

Even a whole leaf shouldn’t have much of an active chemical we should worry about?




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