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Oral tetrahydroharmine + sublingual hpbcd dmt journeys, very similar to mescaline


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#1 tregar

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Posted 02 September 2021 - 10:32 AM

Oral Tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT journeys, very similar to mescaline:
 
(1) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH)
(2) 300mg oral THH + 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dose every 1.5 hour, 5 hours of brightly colored CEV visions: example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions.
(3) Post #3 on-wards, additional journeys diary
 
These high-dose profoundly beautiful trips are identical in effects to me as taking from 600 to 700mg of the infinitely beautiful mescaline. :wub: The trips feel like "super-mescaline", but are dirt cheap in comparison to the rare and expensive cactus.
 
MUSIC SOUNDS INCREDIBLE for hours on end. :wub: And beauty enhancement is way over the top.
 
THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.
 
zzz 2.5 new orange, yellow dmt for use in HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca experiments (2).JPG
 
0.5ml HPBCD DMT dosage (90mg DMT complexed to 630 plain HPBCD, use 720mg if using 2-hydroxy PBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water with 2 minutes mixing & mashing on a spoon using the end of another spoon to crush it all together) can be sucked up into a 3ml syringe for shooting under tongue, then hold for 15 minutes, press into the sublingual mucosa, it all dissolves. Syringes can be stored in freezer for long-term storage. I like to re-dose every 1.5 hour (original dose + 2 more re-doses) for a 4.5 hour total long strong trip with super-long afterglow, similar to long mescaline journey. To keep at a 1:1 molar ratio use 1:7g dmt to hpbcd, or 1:8 dmt to 2-hydroxy pbcd.
 
zzz 1000.JPG

Edited by tregar, 02 September 2021 - 10:36 AM.

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#2 tregar

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Posted 02 September 2021 - 10:34 AM

It's been 2 weeks since taking anything.
 
No harmine whatsoever this time. I'm just not a big fan of harmine, I feel a bit weird when I use it, clamy hands and feet, somewhat sedating feeling. However, when using just the THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT, it feels extremely clear, identical to mescaline, bright and penetrating, diamond-like shimmering, infinitely beautiful, no sedation.
 
Took 1g vit C, 300mg +r-ala, vitamin E, I always take antioxidants whenever I do this, and drink plenty of luke warm water, never cold.
 
5pm took a capsule containing 275mg of THH
 
5:30 took 110mg brand new fresh DMT complexed to 770mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops of boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug, all mixed and mashed well on a spoon using the end of another spoon to knead it back and forth for 2 minutes, placed bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it all adhered, held under tongue for 15 minutes, the sting was mild, very tolerable.
 
5:45 it all absorbed within 15 minutes I noticed, spit out all saliva instead of swallowing into a cup. At 5:50 it hit me like a ton of bricks, geometrics on the walls, beautiful neon colors flashing in mid-air and CEV just a playground of non-stop images. When I wave my hand, there are heavy tracers like lightening flashes.
 
The beauty with open eyes so profound and infinite.
 
Easily a +4 Shulgin strength, however zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety, extremely pleasurable experience, enjoying watching movies to the max, and wearing heaphones listening to music, which is incredibly enhanced, sounds just heavenly.
 
All in all feels identical to around 400mg mescaline.
 
Just an incredible experience.
 
Still working extremely well at 7:30.
 
7:45 pm redosed another 110mg DMT HPBCD held under tongue for 15 minutes. The spiritual euphoria continues...the beauty with open eyes is just so over the top and incomprehensible.
 
Note 1: Updated this at 1am in the morning, was lying in bed for past 2 hours viewing, due in large part to the THH, since I have not taken it in a long time, endless dream-like rich imagery with eyes closed, visited far away places like Spain where I walked along the cliffs by the ocean, all the detail of the stone and walkways just incredible and Egypt, lots of Egyptian scenery, closeup of an Egyptian woman's makeup and hair & regal gown, glowing in it's detail.
 
Saw Egyptian Thoth who was depicted with the head of an ibis with beak, mesmerized by the imagery, met a beautiful women who showed me artwork which she held in her hands, grand architecture, just completely fascinating scenery, but completely unlike normal dreams, way beyond 4k in detail, real Ayahuasca visions. The remnants of the DMT no doubt added color here and there to much of the THH generated imagery, which is usually monochrome all by itself. I could go on for pages on the dream-like static and animated visions seen. Now going to sleep.
 
Pic: Journey 1: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.
 
Left to right: 275mg THH (tetrahydroharmine put into a capsule taken 1/2 hour to 45 minutes before administering the sublingual HPBCD DMT dose), 110mg DMT freebase, 770mg plain HPBCD, coffee mug to hold microwaved boiling hot water, dropping pipette to administer the 12 hot drops, spoon for mixing together & crushing well using muscles by scraping back and forth the DMT, HPBCD & 12 drops hot water, end of another spoon used to mix and crush it all together on the spoon for 2 minutes.
 
zzz journey #1.JPG

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#3 tregar

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Posted 04 September 2021 - 09:20 AM

For next journey two weeks from now, will do the following again:
 
I want to simulate what happened back in late June, it was a sublingual HPBCD DMT experience that I fell in love with. :wub:
 
I used the formula below, and had 90 minutes of open eyed visuals that were extremely powerful, WILD open eyed visuals: geometrics on the walls, neon colors flashing in the air, concentric colored circles in the air, everything surrounded by a neon rainbow aura of colors.
 
There was a curtain of visuals when moving from one room to the next in the doorway. Open-eyed profound beauty enhancement and diamond-like sparkling & shimmering surrounding the actresses on TV who looked like dazzling, glowing, super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves, exceptionally colorful. Music enhancement extremely powerful. Felt like 600mg to 700mg of mescaline.
 
Again, there was no anxiety, no nausea, no dizziness, very pleasurable experience.
 
Not only that, but when I re-dosed again with the same dosage (another 20mg HPBCD harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT) it came back again full-force, same strength and same duration of remarkable open eyed visuals.
 
1. first took 300mg THH orally in a capsule.
 
2. then took all this sublingually: 20mg harmine freebase complexed to 120mg HPBCD in a few drops of water under tongue along with 90mg DMT freebase complexed to 630mg HPBCD in 10 drops of water.
 
The 20mg sublingual harmine has the power of 120mg oral harmine, which is plenty to slow down the inactivation of the DMT by MAO, localized in the mitochondria within the neuron in the brain...this allows the sublingual HPBCD DMT to be VERY STRONG and LAST for a LONG DURATION.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
 
Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
 
Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using tiny dose harmine sublingually acts more as a facilitator than a participant. It does not bother me and nothing like when I use it orally, it's very tolerable, no weirdness, sedation, etc. I'm not a big fan of oral harmine even at 150mg.
 
Pic: the open eye geometrics on the walls looked similar to art painting below.
 
geometrics on the wall.JPG

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#4 tregar

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Posted 05 September 2021 - 01:52 PM

Thank you Sidestreet and Yoshitrainer. 

 

Complete short summary:
 
So the deal is that HPBCD makes the non-water soluble freebase DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream, where it penetrates past the sublingual mucosa as the potent freebase into the bloodstream, where it reaches the brain with amazing strength.
 
The 150mg to 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before beginning the sublingual phase will double the half-life of the DMT, but also...as little as 20mg sublingual harmine in combo with the sublingual HPBCD DMT has the power of 120mg oral harmine, which is plenty to slow down the deamination of the DMT by MAO, localized in the mitochondria within the neuron in the brain...this allows the sublingual HPBCD DMT to be VERY STRONG and LAST for a LONG DURATION. 
 
See journey report above from late June: The above formula allows for 90 minutes of wild amazing open-eyed visuals, very strong music enhancment & over the top beauty enhancment. 
 
Just as Jonathan Ott reports, the oral or sublingual dose is about half the potency of inhaled smoke vapor. The sublingual HPBCD DMT dose comes on in only half the time of oral DMT (22 minutes instead of 45 minutes) but still lasts as long as an oral dose (90 minutes).
 
There are countless reports and threads here of people trying plain sublingual DMT freebase and DMT salts sublingually, and just not getting any effects, however, complexing the DMT freebase to the HPBCD will allow it to absorb at near 100% efficiency sublingually in my experience. 
 
This is very similar to how chemist Patrick Arnold made non-water soluble pro-hormones that converted in the body via enzyme activity to 95% testosterone absorb at near 100% efficiency sublingually as well. It worked so well, he created a company called ERGOPHARM that made millions selling these patented cyclo-diol (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin complexed pro-hormones) to body-builders for a decade until they were made illegal, these sublingual HPBCD complexed pro-hormones worked extremely well when taken sublingually. It worked so well, the pharmaceutical companies later picked up on his idea and started marketing sublingual HPBCD testosterone to hypogonadal men, and according the the published studies I have read on-line it worked like a gem to raise all of the men's testosterone levels to the high-normal (1100 to 1200ng/dl).
 
In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol™ and Cyclo-Nordiol™ to be used sublingually under the tongue.
 
hxxps://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/
 
I bought and used these over the counter sublingual HPBCD pro-hormones, had my testosterone level checked 30 minutes later at a bloodwork lab, and it sored from my low normal 300ng/dl to a whopping 1500ng/dl, well above the high normal of 1100 ng/dl in gifted men. 
 
I've done this sublingual DMT over 33 times if you count the number of times I've re-dosed in an evening, always two more re-doses every 1.5 hour for a 4.5 hour long trip with super long afterglow. 
 
What I began to notice, later on when I introduced a tiny amount of sublingual harmine to the sublingual DMT, thanks to the writings of Loveall, Jamie, amor_fati, Gibralter, and others...
 
...all held under the tongue at the exact same time, is that complexing the 20mg harmine to 120mg HPBCD in 3 drops boiling hot water masked the nasty taste of the harmine better than just using the plain harmine freebase sublingually. The HPBCD also helps the harmine freebase absorb better than normal. 
 
See trip report above, the tiny sublingual harmine dose potentiated the already strong sublingual HPBCD DMT to un-heard of incredible strength and duration, my preferred method of using it. 
 
Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
You cant compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.
 
Dr. Narang and Sharma in attached paper on post #2 at dmt nexus mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral. 
 
In my estimation, sublingual harmine is "at least" x6 times as powerful as oral (3+10 divided by 2 = avg of x6), therefore 20mg is at least as powerful as 120mg oral harmine, which is the threshold oral dose (1.5mg/kg) that Jonathan Ott found to easily activate 35mg doses of DMT and above. His weight is 175lbs. 
 
I have had +5 Shulgin experiences with just the plain sublingual HPBCD DMT, taking of course 300mg THH 45 minutes before beginning the sublingual HPBCD DMT phase of course. 
 
But the addition of the tiny dose sublingual HPBCD harmine along with the sublingual HPBCD dmt just takes this all to soring new levels of strength and duration, a full 90 minutes of "over the top" potent open-eyed visuals, all recounted on post #5. 
 
Music will blow you away, heard as if you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own...just heavenly. The same exact powerful music enhancment that high dose Bolivian bridgesii, Peruvian torch, san pedro cactus tea imparts on it's drinkers. 
 
Besides the potent visuals & music enhancement, beauty enhancement is way over the top and infinite. 
 
Yes, the HPBCD DMT will work sublingually without the THH, but it's not anything like mescaline when used without the THH, colors are dark, music is not enhanced, euphoria not apparent, beauty enhancement is not over the top, half life is not doubled, short lasting, etc. 
 
In conclusion, the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH) for those who just started reading:
 
1. Part 10 of the first paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green or yellow in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca. 
 
THH has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours, so you only need dose it once, as it lasts all evening in combo with the HPBCD DMT sublingual doses, which I re-dose under-tongue from a storage syringe (explained on post #1) every 1.5 hour twice more beyond original dose to keep the journey super-strong for many hours. 
 
As a chemist, I only use my own pure home-made THH, I have no idea about any other THH out there. If you use THH you don't make yourself, at least grab some of it on a wet cue tip and smear it on a paper plate and hold in front of blacklight, if it glows solid light blue, it is THH, but keep in mind harmine also glows same color. THH also has a lingering metallic like taste when smeared onto tongue. 
 
Any green or yellow in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline, how much is anyones guess, could be a tiny bit or alot. Harmaline at least for me can cause dizziness, nausea, sick feelings, sleepiness with short period of re-bound insomnia the next night...depending on how much of it there is. 
 
2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.
 
3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.
 
4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent which can be seen for hours on end...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin. See receptorome chart located on part I paper. 
 
5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so. 
 
6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, see Dennis Mckenna ph.D. paper on post #2. when 2 cups are drank by more advanced members for evening at the vegetals, those advanced people are consuming around 300mg of THH. As a beginner, always stick with 150mg of THH or similar, I like to think of it like this:
 
150mg of acid is a good medium dose, 150mg of THH is a good medium dose.
200mcg of acid is a strong dose, 200mg of THH is a strong dose.
250mcg of acid is a very potent dose, 250mg of THH is a very potent dose.
300mcg of acid is heavy strong dose, 300mg of THH is heavy strong dose. 
 
7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The music enhancment of THH + DMT is just extraordinary, music lovers like myself will delight for hours on end. 
 
In conclusion, I've taken Ayahuasca over 80 times now, cactus tea over 200 times, I've noticed recently that much of the bridgesii I used to love and cherish (my favorite cactus drink) has become nearly extinct and what does remain is super expensive. Even san pedro, which can be all over the place potency wise, has become very expensive. You can spend a small fortune only to discover it is very potent, or only slightly above threshold. 
 
Was thrilled to discover this sublingual HPBCD DMT in combo with oral THH, (thanks to the help of an Ayahuasca vision recounted in 1st paper on post #53) as it gives me identical effects as high dose bridgesii cactus tea, infinitely beautiful, brilliantly penetrating, no sedation, long 4.5 hour trip (so long as I keep sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dosing every 1.5 hour) with long-lasting afterglow. 

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#5 tregar

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Posted 06 September 2021 - 07:35 AM

Thanks Sidestreet, Yoshitrainer, dead head jed.

 

Questions asked and answers:
 

So THH may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake. Does it also increase its strength?

Without THH the DMT visuals are weaker (darker colored and less interesting).

 

Have you tried sublingual HPBCD DMT without THH? If so could you explain the difference?

THH adds more potent visuals, music and beauty enhancement, mescaline euphoria, longer duration.

 

Is there a difference between sublingual Harmine (freebase or HCL) and sublingual Harmine complexed with HPBCD?

Complexed harmine helps masks the taste and helps freebase harmine to absorb better.

 

Is there a deeper layer to the subl DMT + THH experience, or is it "just" a prolonged DMT vape session?

It gives an identical effects as high dose of cactus tea, infinitely beautiful, brilliantly penetrating and no sedation.

 

Why do you choose to take the THH orally instead of sublingually?

I take the THH always orally because it causes zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety, it is like water to me, completely inert, extremely cheap to make yourself, around 25 cents per 300mg dose. It's personal preference, you can use it sublingually if you want, but I never have, you are on your own experimenting there.

Why tax your sublingual mucosa with more than it needs to handle? The 20mg sublingual HPBCD harmine + 90 to 100mg sublingual HPBCD DMT already eats up 15 minutes of time absorbing, although much of the time I have had it all absorb in 10 to 12 minutes. Studies with sublingual Viagra attached on paper #1 on post #1 showed even 100mg doses absorbed just fine, which is around the combined dosage of ingredients we are using.

THH has a 10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours, so yes, you need only take it once in a capsule, it lasts all evening, for example, in journey #1 in post #3, I took it at 5pm, and was still having closed eye THH visions when I closed my eyes and laid in bed from 11pm to 1am in the morning, for 2 hours I viewed Egyptian scenery, Spain cliffs, walkways by the ocean, beautiful woman who showed me artwork in her hand, Egyptian thoth with the head of a bird, I could go on for pages, hundreds of visions.

THH is in the same family as ibogaine, these beta carbolines cause closed eye dream-like visions in monochrome for many, many hours, even some 6 hours after I took it. The remnants of the still working DMT I took earlier in the evening (two 110mg x re-doses) was still able to "color" the normally monochrome way beyond 4k THH generated teaching visions, even from 11pm to 1am.

For example, the beautiful woman I saw holding the artwork had colored fingernails, the Egyptian woman wearing the makeup, which apparently was a common vanity thing even back then, was just beautiful, all the different shades stood out, and her hair and gown were flowing. The Egyptian thoth had multicolored head & beak just like a bird.

There were hundreds of static and animated visions for the 2 hours I meditated and closed my eyes in bed, and they were gently colored by the DMT. I would need a tape recorder going as I lay in bed in order to speak into it to record all the visions. This is what Benny Shanon used to do when he recorded the visions for his book "Antipodes of the Mind" as there are so many that just go on and on for hours.
 

The 10-12 drops of water.. Drop volume is pipette size dependent. What happens if you add too much or little water to the mix?

Is the amount of water the minimum required to dissolve the substances? Adding more will make it more difficult to place under the tongue? What happens when you evaporate the water after complexing? Will the DMT - HPBCD bond break again? Making it not water soluble anymore?

I have noticed that keeping the drops of water at 10 drops used for 90mg and below DMT, and 12 drops used for 110mg of DMT and above to work well. HPBCD can hold 1000mg per 1ml at room temp, 1ml = 20 drops, 0.5ml is 10 drops. So 10 drops (0.5ml) can easily hold 500mg alkaloids, however, this amount is doubled with hot water, so 10 drops of hot water can easily hold nearly 1000mg HPBCD complexed alkaloids. So when I use 12 drops hot water to hold 110mg dmt complexed to 770mg HPBCD, it holds just fine.

Yes, adding more water beyond 12 drops makes it more difficult to hold under tongue, whereas 10 to 12 drops is very comfortable. If at any time you feel the need to get rid of any saliva before the 15 minutes is over, simply tilt head forward and relieve the built up salvia into a cup while still holding any remaining HPBCD DMT under tongue, it won't go anywhere.

The sting can be mild to moderate, it does not bother me at all, as it is so worth the effects, and it teaches one how to remain silent and meditate for a while.

I have not been able to evaporate off the water, as it is a sticky complex already, it just becomes super sticky the more the water evaporates off, to the point where it will not form a solid, but a flat sticky entity that flows over the surface of the whole spoon if left out long enough.

I realize this sublingual method is not for everyone, and that is why the spoon full of HPBCD DMT can just simply be added to a 1oz hot tea with 150mg to 300mg THH added and from 140 to 180mg harmine added, a bit of crushed vit c to dissolve the harmalas, mixed well and drank all at the same time.

I just prefer the sublingual method as there is none of the typical heaviness of an Ayahuasca brew, which comes from the oral harmine, and I can re-dose more sublingually every 1.5 hour without having to take additional oral harmine + HPBCD DMT tea. I'm already not a big fan of harmine orally, so having to redose more of it orally is not my favorite. But others won't be bothered.

 

Just as Jonathan Ott reports, the oral or sublingual dose is about half the potency of inhaled smoke vapor. The sublingual HPBCD DMT dose comes on in only half the time of oral DMT (22 minutes instead of 45 minutes) but still lasts as long as an oral dose (90 minutes).
 

What happens if you don't take any THH, but increase the dose of complexed DMT and Harmine?  Will the visuals stay dull? If not I don't mind the shorter duration. 45 min of vape intensity sound more than enough.
Yes, the visuals still stay dull. There will still be no euphoria, music enhancement, stimulation, no THH generated imagery for the DMT to color. The THH makes a major difference, adding it will make the experience similar to a mescaline experience, remember DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but requires THH to do this...important teamwork. Ibogaine, mescaline, LSD, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenine in Amazonian stuff which combine with DMT for a 3 hour snuff experience, all block serotonin, shutting down the day-to-day survival filters so that infinite mind can manifest in combo with the DMT. Receptorome chart on part I of paper explains this.

See the report from James Oroc below who combined smoked DMT with smoked 5-meo-dmt (which blocks serotonin), this is same thing the THH does, the dull visions then become overwhelming artistry as well:

DMT + tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt [perhaps similar theoretically to Amazonian snuffs which have a makeup of 7.4% bufotenin (potent 5-ht1a agonist), 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT (potent 5-ht1a agonist) & 0.16% DMT (poor potency as 5-ht1a agonist):

James Oroc, Tryptamine Palace:

 
As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.

With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.

 

 

To what ratio should you complex freebase Harmine to?

Also 1:1 molar weight? Which is?

Harmine to HPBCD gram ratio:

HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin

Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
 

What's the difference between HPBCD and 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin?

Isn't this the same substance? The abbreviation for 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin is HP-β-CD, aka: HPBCD, correct?

Myself and downwardsfromzero covered this at length in part I paper. Basically, they are both the same thing, either one will work just fine. 2-hydroxy is just more able to hold propyl molecules better. I have both forms, and have used them interchangeably. I have even read many chemical suppliers refer to them as basically the same thing as well.

Pic: Alex Garant's artwork will have you seeing double, ibogaine and tetrahydroharmine are in the same betacarboline family.

 

Alex Garant's artwork will have you seeing double, ibogaine and tetrahydroharmine are in the same betacarboline family.PNG



#6 tregar

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 02:57 PM

Thanks Clumsy.

 

Important points, and why I keep coming back to HPBCD DMT sublinugual administration over oral dosing:
 
1) The HPBCD DMT "under the tongue" held down in the sublingual mucosa sting can be mild to moderate, many times for me the sting is mild, does not bother me at all, as it is so worth the powerful effects that hit 22 minutes later with 90 minutes very strong duration, noticed consistently that all of the dose absorbs in 15 minutes, many times I've noticed it absorb within 10 to 12 minutes. This also teaches one how to remain silent for a short while and meditate.  
 
1) I've compared (taking 45 minutes earlier as usual 300mg THH in a capsule) 12 evenings of sublingual HPBCD DMT dosing (original dose + two more redoses every 1.5 hr = 36 total doses) vs. 4 oral tea doses now since the beginning of May 2021 (5 months worth of experience), allowing at least 7 days between journeys and have noticed that the sublingual HPBCD DMT doses have been very strong in comparison to the tea doses, anywhere from 3 times stronger on up. 
 
I've many times taken 300mg THH + 200mg harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT tea all orally, only to turn around and take after it wears off: 90mg HPBCD DMT sublingually, and been completely blown away by the strength and duration of the sublingual dose compared to the oral dose, shocked at the awe and power of the sublingual in other words.  
 
With the oral 300mg THH taken 45 minute before in a capsule, then 90 mg sublingual HPBCD DMT doses + 20mg HPBCD harmine both taken sublingually at the exact same time, or with just taking the HPBCD DMT sublingual dose around 2 hours after taking an oral tea dose...
 
...I was seeing not only geometrics overlayed on the walls, but double images, for example, when looking up only slightly, was seeing a super bright double image of the television in mid-air, similar to the "double vision" artwork posted earlier. 
 
There were heavy tracers like lightening flashes, colored concentric circles in the air, neon colors flashing in mid-air and broadcast onto walls, then seperated into fine moving neon waves like a laser scanner projection, beautiful neon-colored rainbow auras surrounding everything, and a curtain of visuals in the doorway when walking to another room. 
 
Just completed fascinated by the open eyed visuals, the CEV's just a playground of images & visions, music incredibly enhanced, and beauty enhancement way over the top. No anxiety, no dizziness, no nausea, very pleasurable experience, identical to high dose brigesii tea in my experience.
 
In response to a question, yes, the head-space is very deep, just like with cactus tea, heart-opening, borders broken down, ego-broken down, powerful spiritual insights & feelings, no different from high dose cactus tea. Not man-made feeling at all but very archaic and primitive, feels very ancient.  
 
2) Dr. Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper (attached on post #1) that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral.
 
3) Wikipedia on sublingual administration: https://en.wikipedia..._administration
 
and states the following:
 
"many drugs are much more potent taken sublingually"
 
"this route translates the chemical directly to the brain, where most psychoactives act."
 
"When a chemical comes in contact with the mucous membrane beneath the tongue, it is absorbed. Because the connective tissue beneath the epithelium contains a profusion of capillaries, the substance then diffuses into them and enters the venous circulation.[1] In contrast, substances absorbed in the intestines are subject to first-pass metabolism in the liver before entering the general circulation.
 
Sublingual administration has certain advantages over oral administration. Being more direct, it is often faster,[quantify] and it ensures that the substance will risk degradation only by salivary enzymes before entering the bloodstream, whereas orally administered drugs must survive passage through the hostile environment of the gastrointestinal tract, which risks degrading them, by either stomach acid or bile, or by enzymes such as monoamine oxidase (MAO). 
 
Furthermore, after absorption from the gastrointestinal tract, such drugs must pass to the liver, where they may be extensively altered; this is known as the first pass effect of drug metabolism. Due to the digestive activity of the stomach and intestines, the oral route is unsuitable for certain substances, such as salvinorin A.
 
This may be a preferred method to simple oral administration, because MAO is known to oxidize many drugs (especially the tryptamines such as DMT) and because this route translates the chemical directly to the brain, where most psychoactives act."


#7 tregar

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Posted 12 September 2021 - 11:08 AM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Important Reference notes:
 
HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
 
Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
 
Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
 
Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:
Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.
 
Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.
 
One quick note: I would recommend if you take 25mg sublingual HPBCD harmine, to take it 10 to 20 minutes before beginning the evening of sublingual HPBCD DMT dosing, of course taking from 150mg to 300mg pure thh orally 45 minutes before all this.
 
I have found the HPBCD DMT absorbs much better on it's own without any sublingual harmine in the mix at the same time, so keep them separate is all I'm saying.
 
Dr. Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper (attached on post #1) that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral.
 
Wikipedia on sublingual administration: Sublingual administration - Wikipedia
"many drugs are much more potent taken sublingually"
 
"this route translates the chemical directly to the brain, where most psychoactives act."
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Journey #2, 9-10-2021 Friday night diary:
 
Been 2 weeks since taking anything.
 
Had a disappointing tea made from two x 12" long 3" wide san pedro that did not even give threshold effects, no effects 4 hours later, I still make a cactus tea every now and then to search out what will work when I go to the waterpark, and enjoy nature. I will stick with bridgesii next time for waterpark outdoors, which has never let me down.
 
Since the tea did not work, I did not go to waterpark and stayed home instead and for the evening made my favorite oral THH + sublingual 25 HPBCD harmine + sublingual 110mg HPBCD DMT instead.
 
1) Took 300mg pure THH in a capsule 45 minutes before
 
2) Then took sublingual 25mg HPBCD harmine freebase.
 
3) I noticed the 25mg harmine freebase complexed to the (1:6g ratio to keep at 1:1 molar ratio) 150mg HPBCD in 3 drops boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug all crushed and mixed on a spoon using the end of another spoon, underside of tongue then pressed onto spoon, it all adhered, then held under tongue pressed into the sublingual mucosa had ZERO TASTE under the tongue! as the HPBCD masked the taste of the nasty harmine freebase completely, and all of it absorbed in only 5 minutes since it was such a low dosage.
 
I really like the 25mg harmine freebase this way, has the power of around 150mg oral harmine (x6) in my estimation, but no sedation, felt really nice on the body, gave effects for around 1 hour in my estimation this way, gentle soothing feeling like being in a hot tub, helped to make the 110mg sublingual HPBCD DMT dose taken 15 minutes later really powerful, great facilitator of the DMT. I think the harmine really slows down the de-amination or oxidation of the DMT in the mitochondria once it reaches the brain, this greatly strengthens & extends the powerful DMT effects for a full 90 minutes, and the THH doubles the half-life of the DMT.
 
4) Around 5 minutes after I noticed the 25mg HPBCD harmine absorbed, then took sublingual 110mg HPBCD DMT. This is 110mg DMT put onto a spoon, covered with (1:7g ratio) 770mg plain HPBCD powder, 12 drops boiling hot water added, crushed and mixed back and forth on the spoon using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, placed bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it all adhered, held under tongue for 15 minutes, it all absorbed at around 13 to 15 minutes. Spit out an saliva into a cup instead of swallowing.
 
Effects: Felt like around 500mg mescaline  :wub:  , at around 22 minutes after taking the sublingual HPBCD DMT, room filled with neon colors broadcast onto the walls, impossible mixture of neon colors like purple-yellow, pink-blue, un-nameable colors, tiny colored sparkles surrounded everything, closed eye visuals of gentle geometrics.
 
Watched movies on television (2021 "Kate" movie filmed in Tokyo on net-flix in 4k), both main actresses once again looked like glowing, dazzling super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves. The colors in the movie even took on new neon colors to replace the normal colors seen. Far-out beauty enhancement, listened to music on headphones, powerful enhancement. Much more powerful visuals than LSD or mushrooms and lasted a full 90 minutes with great strength, no dizziness, no nausea, no anxiety.
 
:ph34r:  Important note: I have noticed that when I use fresh DMT, which still has that powerful odor or smell to it, before it oxidizes, that the sublingual HPBCD DMT journeys are just really powerful, this oxidation seems to take place after 7 days for me, even when I keep it sealed in a container in the freezer, it seems to loose it's "smell" after this, and seems to become less potent...
 
So what I have begun to do, is extract brand new DMT, then on the same day it is all scraped up, I will immediately take 110mg of it, complex it to 770mg of HPBCD in 12 drops of boiling hot water on a spoon, mix and mash/scrape it all back and forth for 2 minutes, then draw up the 0.5ml of complexed solution into a 3ml syringe for storage in the freezer, the HPBCD helps drugs to keep indefinitely I have read, as it encapsulates the drug, or preserves/traps it well, then when frozen like this, stays super-fresh just like the day it was extracted.
 
I buy 100 of these syringes for dirt cheap on-line and go ahead and make all my doses the same day using many syringes, then freeze all the syringes, when ready to use one, I just pull a syringe out of freezer, it will defrost quickly, then shoot dosage under tongue, and hold for 15 minutes or until it all dissolves, many times within 12 minutes or so.
 
Historical note: Forgot to mention, but 1 month ago took 300mg of THH orally, then 2.5 hits of acid an hour later, this is a very powerful combination as well  :wub:  , with closed eyes, all the way till 3am in the morning was seeing hundreds of colored closed eye static and animated visions, very realistic visions that went on forever. Way more powerful than LSD visions alone, these were colored Ayahuasca visions: stone carvings with elaborate art-work, a beautiful woman who stretched out her hand to me to show me magic, non-stop visions that went on forever and forever.
 
The combo of 300mg THH + LSD also makes the beauty & aesthetic enhancement way stronger than LSD alone, and the music sounds much better than LSD alone, it feels very much like when you combine mescaline with LSD, as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline. Very beautiful combination.  :wub:
 
This is the same thing that happens when you take 300mg THH orally, then take sublingual HPBCD DMT as well, and re-dose more sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour, non stop closed eye colored Ayahuasca visions, as recounted in earlier journeys at top of post, this resulted in 5 hours of non-stop visions all the way till 5am in the morning.
 
Pic1: Journey 2, 300mg pure THH orally in a capsule 45 minutes before, sublingual 25mg HPBCD harmine freebase in 3 drops hot water 10 minutes before the sublingual 110mg HPBCD DMT freebase in 12 drops hot water.
 
Pic2: The day the DMT is extracted, pre-make all the 0.5ml 110mg HPBCD DMT doses, and store in many syringes, freeze them, keeps fresh potency forever, never oxidizes this way.
 
zzz 25mg HPBCD harmine and 110mg HPBCD DMT.JPG

Edited by tregar, 12 September 2021 - 02:53 PM.

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#8 tregar

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Posted 13 September 2021 - 07:37 AM

110mg fresh just extracted DMT is put onto a spoon, covered with (1:7g ratio to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio) 770mg plain HPBCD, 12 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug, mix, mash & scrape it all back and forth on the spoon, using the end of another spoon really hard using your muscles for 2 minutes, then suck up the 0.6ml (12 drop complex) into a 3ml syringe for storage in a freezer, keeps the fresh potency forever, the DMT protected within the HPBCD cavity, and frozen solid, never oxidizes this way, stays as fresh as the day you extract it.
 
So on the day I extract 2.5g from 170g bark, I go ahead and right after scraping it all up, and allowing it to dry, pre-prepare many individual syringes, and freeze all of them, each with a 0.6ml 110mg HPBCD DMT dose. 
 
If you take a look at the 3ml syringe picture on above, notice 12 drops fills it up to 6th click mark.
 
tic marck 1 = 2 drops = 18.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.1ml)
tic marck 2 = 4 drops = 36.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.2ml)
tic marck 3 = 6 drops = 54.9mg HPBCD DMT (0.3ml)
tic marck 4 = 8 drops = 73.2mg HPBCD DMT (0.4ml)
tic marck 5 = 10 drops = 91.5mg HPBCD DMT (0.5ml)
tic marck 6 = 12 drops = 110mg HPBCD DMT (0.6ml)
 
This is how I measure my dosage out for sublingual use, once I pull the syringe from the freezer and allow it to quickly defrost at room temp. You can either shoot the dose directly under your tongue, or measure out the dose onto a spoon, then place the bottomside of your tongue onto the spoon, and it will all adhere. Then simply hold dose under tongue, and press it into the sublingual mucosa, it will all dissolve in 15 minutes or less.


#9 tregar

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 08:27 AM

I should add that once you have these very fresh just extracted and complexed pre-made frozen syringes made, each with 0.6ml (110mg HPBCD DMT) that they can not only be used under the tongue sublingually, but can just as easily be used in an Ayahuasca tea...
 
What I have done before is squirt all 110mg HPBCD DMT directly into a 1oz black coffee that already has 140mg of harmine freebase dissolved into it with a bit of crushed vit C, so the harmine freebase dissolves. YES! I have used as little as 140mg harmine freebase to activate the dmt, just as Jonathan Ott found out works (1.5mg/kg threshold activating dose). He found 120mg worked just fine for him, he weighs 175lbs (80kg), I weigh 200lbs (90kg).
 
I take a capsule of from 150mg to 300mg THH orally around the same time. You can re-dose again later with sublingual HPBCD DMT under the tongue every 1.5 hour, the oral harmine continues to work for 5 hours, to slow down the deamination or oxidation of the DMT in the mitochondria in the brain. I have tripped very hard all evening long (4.5 hours) this way.
 
There are options is all I'm saying: sublingual or oral.
 
zzz 25mg HPBCD harmine and 110mg HPBCD DMT.JPG


#10 tregar

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 02:33 PM

This 23g harmine & soon to be 81g THH will last me many years, as I only use 300mg THH per dose. 1st paper, post #12 explains how to separate the harmine from the harmaline with ease, then how to convert the harmaline to THH with ease.
 
Pic1: 23 grams dry pure harmine fb (ph=7.0)
pic2: 116 grams dry pure harmaline fb (ph = 8.0 and above), when converted to THH, will yield 70% or 81g THH.
pic3: 274 grams rue hcl, around 75% of this (rest saved) was dissolved into 3 cups 115 degree F hot water for separation into harmine & harmaline fb via drops of ammonia and filtration flask.
pic4: two high precision PH meters monitor the PH as the ammonia drops are added.
 
Not shown: 40g middle mixture of harmine + harmaline fb (ph = 7.1 to 8.0) which is put away and saved for a rainy day, when doing another extraction, it is input into the new future extraction to again get another separation.
 
Stay true to yourself. Love, Peace & Music
 
 
 
zzz e1.JPG
 
zzz e2.JPG
 

Edited by tregar, 15 September 2021 - 04:26 PM.


#11 tregar

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Posted 16 September 2021 - 04:21 PM

This 23g harmine & soon to be 81g THH will last me many years, as I only use 300mg THH per dose. 1st paper on post #12 explains how to separate the harmine from the harmaline with ease, then how to convert the harmaline to THH with ease.
 
Pic1: 23 grams dry pure harmine fb (ph=7.0)
pic2: 116 grams dry pure harmaline fb (ph = 8.0 and above), when converted to THH, will yield 70% or 81g THH.
pic3: 274 grams rue hcl, around 75% of this (rest saved) was dissolved into 3 cups 115 degree F hot water for separation into harmine & harmaline fb via drops of ammonia and filtration flask.
pic4: two high precision PH meters monitor the PH as the ammonia drops are added.
 
Not shown: 40g middle mixture of harmine + harmaline fb (ph = 7.1 to 8.0) which is put away and saved for a rainy day, when doing another extraction, it is input into the new future extraction to again get another separation.
 
pic5: 2.2g fresh new extracted DMT from 170g bark & 20 x 3ml syringes each getting ready to be loaded with 0.6ml = 110mg HPBCD DMT
pic6: 20 syringes each holding 110mg HPBCD DMT for sublingual or oral use, storage in freezer will keep potent indefinitely. I like to use 3 for the evening, 300mg oral THH 45 minutes before, then pull out one syringe holding 110mg HPBCD DMT original dose, squirt under tongue and hold for 15 minutes, and re-dose every 1.5 hour, for 3 total doses = 4.5 hour of very strong effects, identical to 500 to 700mg long lasting mescaline.
pic7: store 20 syringes in freezer in a protein shaker bottle, "syringe tip caps", 1000 for dirt cheap, go on the end to seal syringe, so no leak.
 
Or can be used by taking from 150mg to 300mg THH in a capsule, then take an Ayahuasca tea made with 1oz hot coffee holding from 140 to 180mg harmine freebase with a bit of vitamin C added to help the harmine absorb should it be in freebase form, then squirt the syringe dosage into the hot 1oz coffee, mix and drink all at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's do. The oral HPBCD DMT is very potent, much stronger than normal DMT freebase or salts used orally, and just as strong as actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How to:
 
110mg fresh just extracted DMT is put onto a spoon, covered with (1:7g ratio to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio) 770mg plain HPBCD, if using instead the 2-HPBCD, then use a 1:8g weight ratio or 880mg 2-HPBCD in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.
 
Then 12 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug is added, mix, mash & scrape it all back and forth on the spoon, using the end of another spoon really hard using your muscles for 2 minutes, then suck up the 0.6ml (12 drop complex) into a 3ml syringe for storage in a freezer, keeps the fresh potency forever, the DMT protected within the HPBCD cavity, and frozen solid, never oxidizes this way, stays as fresh as the day you extract it.
 
So on the day I extract 2.5g from 170g bark, I go ahead and right after scraping it all up, and allowing it to dry, pre-prepare many individual syringes, and freeze all of them, each with a 0.6ml 110mg HPBCD DMT dose.
 
If you take a look at the 3ml syringe picture, notice 12 drops fills it up to 6th click mark.
 
tic mark 1 = 2 drops = 18.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.1ml)
tic mark 2 = 4 drops = 36.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.2ml)
tic mark 3 = 6 drops = 54.9mg HPBCD DMT (0.3ml)
tic mark 4 = 8 drops = 73.2mg HPBCD DMT (0.4ml)
tic mark 5 = 10 drops = 91.5mg HPBCD DMT (0.5ml)
tic mark 6 = 12 drops = 110mg HPBCD DMT (0.6ml)
 
This is how I measure my dosage out for sublingual or oral Ayahuasca use, once I pull the syringe from the freezer, it will quickly defrost at room temp. You can either shoot the dose directly under your tongue, or measure out the dose onto a spoon, then place the bottom side of your tongue onto the spoon, and it will all adhere. Then simply hold dose under tongue, and press it into the sublingual mucosa, it will all dissolve in 15 minutes or less.
 
Stay true to yourself. Love, Peace & Music
 
zzz e1.JPG
 
zzz e2.JPG
 
zzz 20 syringes each getting ready to be loaded with 110mg HPBCD DMT (2).JPG
 
zzz 20 syringes each holding 110mg HPBCD DMT (2).JPG
 
zzz store 20 syringes in a protein shaker bottle.JPG

Edited by tregar, 16 September 2021 - 06:57 PM.


#12 tregar

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Posted 17 September 2021 - 03:49 AM

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#13 tregar

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 12:22 PM

From much experience, can indeed say that THH is very euphoric and creates open-eyed visual "over the top visual enhancement". Hours of closed eye teaching visions when I reach 300mg of pure THH. Note the 300mg dosage entry for THH or tetrahydroharmine in TIHKAL was not done by Dr. Shulgin but by an inexperienced person who equated it to 100mg harmaline. Tetrahydroharmine is nothing like harmaline, it is not sedating or nauseating or even dizzying, but rather stimulating, euphoric, very mescaline-like with diamondlike open eyed beauty enhancement, music enhancement, closed eye way beyond 4k teaching visions for hours on end, it's in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. THH has 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours. When 150mg to 200mg THH is combined with DMT either sublingually or in an Ayahuasca tea with from 140 to 180mg harmine fb, the effects are absolutely stunning, very much identical to high dose mescaline, mescaline like euphoria for hours on end, deep head space, powerful music enhancement, powerful spiritual insights and visions, etc. 
 
THH is an isomer of a hormonal-like substance found in the brain already, and is responsible for the teaching visions and Ayahuasca's telepathic or telepathine properties. I believe it is the "main course" of the Ayahuasca session, it is also able to bring out the "essence" of other plants, and combines extremely well with all sorts of psychedelics to bring out there "essence". 
 
Historical note: one month ago combined 300mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine with 250mcg of acid paper that had been soaked in 1 shot of cold sherry wine for 3 hours in the fridge with hand stirring once an hour in the fridge, to help theoretically or hypothetically convert the LSD to the more colorful & visual and head-space gentle ALD-52 by adduction of the acetaldehyde from the sherry wine to the NH bottom indole position on the LSD (don't try this at home unless you are really advanced, and sure you have very pure THH) and had closed eye bright colored teaching visions all the way from 8pm till midnight. 
 
Much more powerful than LSD visions alone, these were brightly colored Ayahuasca visions. One of the sequence of visions were of a variety of stone carvings with very elaborate artwork and a beautiful woman who stretched out her hand to me to show me magic. 
 
I would need a tape recorder going as I lie in bed for hours to talk into in order to record the hundreds of non-stop animated and static colored visions. 
 
Then at midnight took another 100mg of THH, it brought the visions all back until 4am in the morning! It was almost too much, non-stop hundreds of Ayahuasca visions for hours and hours, I was completely blown away, reminds me of the time I took 300mg THH combined with 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour and had visions from midnight all the way till 5am in the morning also. I would lie in bed watching the colored visions for hours on end listening to music on my headphones, which sounded as if I had taken a high dose cactus tea, very remarkably enhanced, just Heavenly. 
 
The combo of 300mg THH + LSD also makes the beauty & aesthetic enhancement way stronger than LSD alone, and the music sounds much better than LSD alone, it feels very much like when you combine mescaline with LSD, as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline. Very beautiful combination. 
 
Please note: all beginners only use around 150mg to 200mg THH which is what is found average in 1 cup of Ayahuasca tea, only advanced members of the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian and people like myself drink 2 cups of Ayahausca tea for the evening, which then contains around 300mg THH average. 
 
P.S. Will be able to determine in future whether coffee filters or a cotton ball stuffed into a funnel will work in place of normally used vacuum pump with #101 filtration disc to filter out the remaining floating zinc dust (only around 10% left floating) after the spun solution sits for 1 hour as 90% of the zinc dust falls to very bottom, so solution above it can be decanted off. This would make it very cost efficient and easy for anyone to convert harmaline to THH without all the fancy equipment (buchner filtration flask and cup/filtration paper, vacuum pump).
 
Harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour, way a chemist does it, see post #12: https://www.dmt-nexu...g=posts&t=96861
 


#14 tregar

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Posted 18 September 2021 - 07:35 PM

Update: Now we know why polysaccharides like those in aloe vera leaf and gel or the man-made polysaccharides like HPBCD increase the oral and sublingual absorption of DMT freebase by many factors:
 
Downwardsfromzero said a while back:
This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting.
 
It just so turns out that you were absolutely right! Cyclodextrins such as HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin) are naturally occurring polysaccharides obtained through the enzymatic degradation of starch.
 
This explains how when HPBCD is complexed to freebase DMT, it is able to not only make it water soluble, but also make it absorb MANY FACTORS BETTER orally than normal DMT freebase or DMT salts.
 
This is why in my experience, the Ayahuasca tea made with HPBCD DMT is many factors stronger than normal DMT, easy to reach +5 Shulgin strength levels, just like the Hawaiian psychotria made Ayahuasca tea, which in all likely hood may also contain polysaccharides just like aloe vera leaf which explains why the Hawaiian psychotria leaf contained DMT easily reaches +5 Shulgin strength: all encompassing and super-strong. I've taken Hawaiian psychotria over 70 times in Ayahuasca made Caapi tea, and it's always been super potent, much more potent than freebase used DMT or salts in my experience. A world of difference, no comparison. The HPBCD DMT is the same, super potent just like the Hawaiian leaf.
 
Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.
 
Guess what else also contains polysaccharides: Aloe vera gel and leaf. Aloe vera gel caused a 3.7 fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to control (vitamin C administered in water).
 
The polysaccharide fraction from dehydrated Aloe vera gel (datonmax 700) material could enhance the transport of many drugs across the intestinal rat tissue many factors over, and was statistically significant compared to control.
 
Aloe vera leaf and gel, due to the polysaccharides open tight junctions and consequently enhance paracellular transport of hydrophilic molecules.
 
Polysaccharides are the component of aloe vera gel and leaf that is the biologically active component responsible for the greatly increased modulation of drug pharmacokinetics and absorption -- this is concentrated in the polysaccharide components of the aloe vera gel and material.
 
The paper also shows that Aloe vera has also been shown to significantly enhance the sublingual and buccal permeability of drugs. HPBCD complexed freebase DMT does the same thing, it not only makes the DMT water soluble until it crosses the sublingual membrane, where it is released into the bloodstream as the potent freebase, where it reaches the brain intact in my experience, very potent indeed...
 
...but HPBCD, being a polysaccharide just like aloe vera gel or leaf, greatly enhances the penetration of the DMT thru the sublingual mucosa under the tongue due to it's potent disruption capabilities of the epithelium layer (only 100 to 200um thick), also discussed in the attached paper.
 
All of this is covered in the attached paper "Drug Bioavailability Enhancing Agents of Natural Origin (Bioenhancers) that Modulate Drug Membrane Permeation and Pre-Systemic Metabolism" by Bianca Peterson, Morné Weyers , Jan H. Steenekamp, Johan D. Steyn, Chrisna Gouws and Josias H. Hamman.
 
Last pic: The absorption of drugs through the sublingual mucosa route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route according to Dr. Narang.
 
 
 
 
zzz The absorption of drugs through the sublingual mucosa route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route according to Dr. Narang.JPG

Attached Files


Edited by tregar, 18 September 2021 - 07:48 PM.


#15 GordoTEK

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Posted Yesterday, 09:55 AM

Cross posting this to your various threads on HPBCD. I am very curious to know if anyone that has used HPBCD has noticed any hearing loss type issues?

In doing more research, it seems quite well documented that HPBCD is in fact toxic to humans (as well as rodents). It's an oddly specific and narrow toxicity, it kills cochlear hairs causing hearing damage.

See: Cyclodextrins and Iatrogenic Hearing Loss: New Drugs with Significant Risk.

"use of HPβCD has been linked to significant hearing loss in several species, including humans. Evidence in mice supports a rapid onset of hearing loss that is dose-dependent. Ototoxicity can occur following central or peripheral drug delivery, with either route resulting in the preferential loss of cochlear outer hair cells (OHCs) within hours of dosing. Inner hair cells and spiral ganglion cells are spared at doses that cause ~85% OHC loss; additionally, no other major organ systems appear adversely affected. Evidence from a first-to-human phase 1 clinical trial mirrors animal studies to a large extent, indicating rapid onset and involvement of OHCs. All patients in the trial experienced some permanent hearing loss, although a temporary loss of function can be observed acutely following drug delivery. The long-term impact of HPβCD use as a maintenance drug, and the mechanism(s) of ototoxicity, are unknown."

There are even some reports of hearing damage in the reviews of the HPβCD products sold on Amazon (despite said products being described as "non-toxic" ). This is potentially extremely important information for people to know before using HPβCD. Many doctors will test your hearing at an annual physical, it would be nice to know if anyone experimenting with HPBCD has had their hearing tested.

Reference:
Crumling MA, King KA, Duncan RK. Cyclodextrins and Iatrogenic Hearing Loss: New Drugs with Significant Risk. Front Cell Neurosci. 2017 Nov 8;11:355. doi: 10.3389/fncel.2017.00355. PMID: 29163061; PMCID: PMC5676048.

 

Hearing loss issue is also mentioned by a doctor here:

[Direct Link]

and there are numerous references to this problem that come up in a google search.


Edited by GordoTEK, Yesterday, 10:01 AM.

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#16 tregar

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Posted Yesterday, 02:07 PM

Yes, I have read many studies, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Cyclodextrin has been linked to some studies in mice at very high doses of 8000 mg/kg s.c. We are not using doses anywhere near that here. I have used HPBCD complexed to pro-hormones for years when pro-hormones were legal and never had any side effects at low level like we are using. Patrick Arnold is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol™ and Cyclo-Nordiol™ and sold them for nearly 10 years thru his company ERGOPHARM, never any complaints of hearing loss. See part 5 of my paper on his story and bloodwork results. I've used the stuff over 44 times now if you include the number of times I've re-dosed in an evening = 3 total doses for an evening. Had my hearing checked earlier this month as I wanted to see myself if any problems with the low doses I have been using, no different than years ago. If you are concerned, then simply don't use it. Proceed with caution. Use aloe vera gel or leaf instead, or even chitosan, many alternatives, see paper above: File Attachment(s): "Pharmaceutics drug bioavailability enhancing agents", example: Aloe vera gel caused a 3.7 fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to control (vitamin C administered in water).



#17 tregar

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Posted Today, 06:46 AM

Yes, I have read many studies, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Cyclodextrin has been linked to some studies in mice at very high doses of 8000 mg/kg s.c. We are not using doses anywhere near that here. I have used HPBCD complexed to pro-hormones for years when pro-hormones were legal and never had any side effects at low level like we are using. Patrick Arnold is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol™ and Cyclo-Nordiol™ and sold them for nearly 10 years thru his company ERGOPHARM, never any complaints of hearing loss. See part 5 of my paper on his story and bloodwork results. I've used the stuff over 44 times now if you include the number of times I've re-dosed in an evening = 3 total doses for an evening. Had my hearing checked earlier this month as I wanted to see myself if any problems with the low doses I have been using, no different than years ago. If you are concerned, then simply don't use it. Proceed with caution. Use aloe vera gel or leaf instead, or even chitosan, many alternatives, see paper above: File Attachment(s): "Pharmaceutics drug bioavailability enhancing agents", example: Aloe vera gel caused a 3.7 fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to control (vitamin C administered in water).
 
2-Hydroxypropyl-β-Cyclodextrin Raises Hearing Threshold in Normal Cats and in Cats With Niemann-Pick Type C Disease
 
 
Cats with NPC disease cats showed no increase in hearing threshold after weekly administration of 1000 mg/kg HPβCD (group 7; n = 5) compared with untreated affected cats [group 6; n = 8]. Both cats treated with weekly 4000 mg/kg (group 8; n = 2) showed an increase in hearing threshold and cats treated with weekly 8000 mg/kg (group 9; n = 5) had a statistically significant (p < 0.05) increase in threshold. No waveforms were evoked at the maximum stimulus intensity of 125 dB from two cats treated with every other week intrathecal HPBCD (group 10).
 
Pic: Cats with NPC disease cats showed no increase in hearing threshold after weekly administration of 1000 mg/kg HPβCD (group 7; n = 5) compared with untreated affected cats [group 6; n = 8].
 
Cats with NPC disease cats showed no increase in hearing threshold after weekly administration of 1000 mg per kg HPβCD compared with untreated affected cats.JPG
 

Edited by tregar, Today, 08:24 AM.


#18 tregar

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Posted Today, 09:46 AM

GordoTEK said:
"HPBCD is generally considered safe to eat because it gets destroyed in the gut before it can get into your bloodstream."
 
This is the same as I have read in the article you linked, which I have read twice now. Based on this orally safe profile, I will only use HPBCD complexed DMT orally from now on mixed into a 1oz hot coffee with from 140 to 180mg harmine fb, a bit of crushed vit C to help the freebase harmine absorb, and a capsule of from 150mg to 300mg THH taken orally at same time. I have done this x 4 times now over a period of 5 months using from 70mg to 110mg HPBCD DMT with impressive results.
 
As little as 1.5mg/kg harmine fb can be used as a threshold dose to orally activate DMT, just as Jonathan Ott found worked just fine, he weights 175lbs (80kg), he found 120mg harmine fb to work, I weigh 200lbs (90kg), I found 140mg harmine fb to work. Up this amount to 160mg harmine fb for an 80kg individual, or 180mg for a 90kg individual for very strong activation.   
 
Re-dosing can be even be done 1 hour to 1.5 hour later after feeling effects as half life of harmine is from 1 to 3 hours, using only 1/2 the dose of harmine combined with another dose of HPBCD DMT. I have found this to work very well. 
 
Just as aloe vera gel has been shown to increase the oral bioavailability of vitamin C administered in water x 3.7 fold, HPBCD has been shown to improve oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation poorly absored fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. Both aloe vera gel and HPBCD are able to increase the absorption of many poorly absored drugs many factors over. 
 
I have no problem using the HPBCD DMT orally, as I've found it many factors stronger and all-encompassing than normal poorly absorbed DMT freebase or salts used orally (never been able to get over +3 Shulgin level mild effects in over a dozen trials using from 70 to 120mg), in fact, the HPBCD DMT is just as potent and super-strong as using actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria, easy to achieve +5 Shulgin level strength. 





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