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Incubator for Colonisation


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#41 TVCasualty

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 11:21 AM

 

I bumped up my incubator setting to 74 yesterday.  Up another notch then?

 

So these oysters, which fruiting started at 63(ish) would be better fruiting at warmer? (say, like in Florida, from whence they originated?)

 

 

 

Try incubating and fruiting at ~75 degrees. It tends to produce better quality mushrooms while lowering contam risk.

 

 

 

Wouldn't hurt. It's not likely that it will stay right at 74 or 75 anyway so a degree or two one way or the other isn't a concern.

 

If you keep the room (or incubator, or bin) at ~78 or 80 (up to ~85) it works fine too, at first. Once the mycelium has grown enough to start to generate it's own heat then you're actually incubating at 85-90 degrees, maybe even higher.

 

Something I often forget to mention is that when I first inoculate a BRF jar (or agar) with spores I incubate it at 80 degrees for the first 3-4 days to kick-start it. Then I drop it to ~75 for the rest of the grow.

 

I successfully incubated and fruited at too-high temps for years (with plenty of problems) before trying it at lower temps and finding that the quality of the harvest improved dramatically. Too-hot environments lead to hollow, lighter individual mushrooms and make the substrate much more prone to contamination (and dehydration), so IMO any slight speed advantage is more than offset by the disadvantages.


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#42 rockyfungus

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 11:32 AM

If I had access to a GLC or whatever ya need, I have a feeling that the colder and slower they colonize the more active they BE.

Warm and fast is great when I was green I used to put them in the oven with the light on and door cracked with a towel. Easiest incubator in the whole damn house. Proofing trick from my baking days.


Edited by rockyfungus, 02 November 2021 - 11:33 AM.

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#43 Mizamook

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 03:36 PM

Funny you mention that .. it's exactly how I approach heating with beer and wine.  Although with those I generally use a thermowell, so have a "real" temp reading, whereas with the mushroom substrates I do not have a means of inserting a probe in sterile conditions, so can just guesstimate.  But I find once the yeast takes hold and gets going, I edge the heat down, and occasionally have to relocate the whole batch!

 

My temp logger indicates vacillation between 73.8 (ish) and 74.9 (ish) over night with the controller set at 75.  It has no hysteresis, so dumbly shuts off at the set point (same for the humidity, which is operating the other chamber). 

 

I don't feel like I need to go any higher than 73-75.  Takes too much energy, and I am happy to hear that "room temp" (which is 68-72 for most people, apparently) is good for solid growth.

 

The 12 brf jars are all looking like they are growing, and I'm pretty sure it's NOT cobweb mould. 

 

 

 

Wouldn't hurt. It's not likely that it will stay right at 74 or 75 anyway so a degree or two one way or the other isn't a concern.

 

If you keep the room (or incubator, or bin) at ~78 or 80 (up to ~85) it works fine too, at first. Once the mycelium has grown enough to start to generate it's own heat then you're actually incubating at 85-90 degrees, maybe even higher.

 

Something I often forget to mention is that when I first inoculate a BRF jar (or agar) with spores I incubate it at 80 degrees for the first 3-4 days to kick-start it. Then I drop it to ~75 for the rest of the grow.

 

I successfully incubated and fruited at too-high temps for years (with plenty of problems) before trying it at lower temps and finding that the quality of the harvest improved dramatically. Too-hot environments lead to hollow, lighter individual mushrooms and make the substrate much more prone to contamination (and dehydration), so IMO any slight speed advantage is more than offset by the disadvantages.

 



#44 Mizamook

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 03:42 PM

What's a GLC?  (Damn me for not keeping the list of acronyms handy!)

 

I don't need to be in a hurry.  I get somewhat conflicting/confusing instructions though.  "Keep them at room temp", "Keep them in the conditions they would experience in their native habitat", "Keep them warm for quick growth (and sometimes so the myc can grow faster instead of the bad guys)", and "Keep then cooler for stronger growth, and so the bad guys don't grow faster than the myc".

 

It all makes sense! 

 

It's up to the Noob in Question to learn when to apply what information, and of course operate within his/her means and ability.

 

 

If I had access to a GLC or whatever ya need, I have a feeling that the colder and slower they colonize the more active they BE.

Warm and fast is great when I was green I used to put them in the oven with the light on and door cracked with a towel. Easiest incubator in the whole damn house. Proofing trick from my baking days.


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#45 rockyfungus

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 04:32 PM

GLC is gas liquid chromatography. Nothing we need for our purposes
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#46 Mizamook

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Posted 02 November 2021 - 11:37 PM

Terrifyingly expensive-looking, and very much over my head.  Glad we don't need it.

 

GLC is gas liquid chromatography. Nothing we need for our purposes


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#47 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:37 PM

 

What's a GLC?  (Damn me for not keeping the list of acronyms handy!)

 

I don't need to be in a hurry.  I get somewhat conflicting/confusing instructions though.  "Keep them at room temp", "Keep them in the conditions they would experience in their native habitat", "Keep them warm for quick growth (and sometimes so the myc can grow faster instead of the bad guys)", and "Keep then cooler for stronger growth, and so the bad guys don't grow faster than the myc".

 

 

When people try to simulate their natural habitat many seem to assume that "tropical" means keeping the grow at ~80 degrees. But what I never hear anyone mention is that when growing indoors, the entire substrate will be at whatever temp the room is set at.

 

That's not the case outside where the ground temp never gets as high as the daily high temperature of the air. So an 80-degree grow room does not actually simulate outdoor conditions.

 

This suggests simulating outdoor conditions indoors requires either a diurnal temp cycle to cool things back down or a way to cool the substrate internally (separately from the air).

 

So in most cases the seemingly conflicting information is really just missing the details that allow for a more accurate comparison of differing contexts. In the rest I'd guess it's about someone posting a very specific recommendation when a range of options would work (saying "Keep your room at 75 degrees" sounds like 75 is more important/critical than it is vs. saying "Keep the room between 65-78 and not higher, but it's okay if it's a little lower too"). Someone else says 78 "is" the right temp, and then you get people arguing over whether 75 or 78 is "the ideal temperature" when both are still firmly within the ideal range.

 

 

 

I'm starting to wonder if the reported higher potency of certain strains (which seem to be accurate when I've sampled some) is partly if not completely a function of the fact that those strains develop more slowly. PF Classics, PE/PE6, and similar strains colonize and mature a lot slower than most strains IME. Since psilocybin is a really complex molecule to make, the more time the mushrooms have to create it the more of it there will be (if it works like that). So cooler grows might be better on every level.

 

This is where having access to GLC would be really, really nice. Thanks to the changing legal climate I imagine we'll finally be getting a lot of these potency questions we've been discussing and arguing about for decades answered soon.


Edited by TVCasualty, 05 November 2021 - 12:40 PM.

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#48 rockyfungus

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 02:04 PM

 

 

What's a GLC?  (Damn me for not keeping the list of acronyms handy!)

 

I don't need to be in a hurry.  I get somewhat conflicting/confusing instructions though.  "Keep them at room temp", "Keep them in the conditions they would experience in their native habitat", "Keep them warm for quick growth (and sometimes so the myc can grow faster instead of the bad guys)", and "Keep then cooler for stronger growth, and so the bad guys don't grow faster than the myc".

 

I'm starting to wonder if the reported higher potency of certain strains (which seem to be accurate when I've sampled some) is partly if not completely a function of the fact that those strains develop more slowly. PF Classics, PE/PE6, and similar strains colonize and mature a lot slower than most strains IME. Since psilocybin is a really complex molecule to make, the more time the mushrooms have to create it the more of it there will be (if it works like that). So cooler grows might be better on every level.

Thought this way for awhile. Especially with woodies being most potent. What about da Pans then? How they so quick and potent  :bat:


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#49 Arathu

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 06:34 AM

I want a copy of this https://www.wiley.co...p-9781405130660

 

And the freedom to explore topics just like this........it would be great to be able to data-log conditions and test such concepts....

 

A



#50 rockyfungus

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 05:02 PM

https://1lib.us/s/Mycology
Even better, gazillion books and downloadable.


Edited by rockyfungus, 06 November 2021 - 05:03 PM.

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#51 TVCasualty

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Posted 07 November 2021 - 02:27 PM

 

 

 

What's a GLC?  (Damn me for not keeping the list of acronyms handy!)

 

I don't need to be in a hurry.  I get somewhat conflicting/confusing instructions though.  "Keep them at room temp", "Keep them in the conditions they would experience in their native habitat", "Keep them warm for quick growth (and sometimes so the myc can grow faster instead of the bad guys)", and "Keep then cooler for stronger growth, and so the bad guys don't grow faster than the myc".

 

I'm starting to wonder if the reported higher potency of certain strains (which seem to be accurate when I've sampled some) is partly if not completely a function of the fact that those strains develop more slowly. PF Classics, PE/PE6, and similar strains colonize and mature a lot slower than most strains IME. Since psilocybin is a really complex molecule to make, the more time the mushrooms have to create it the more of it there will be (if it works like that). So cooler grows might be better on every level.

Thought this way for awhile. Especially with woodies being most potent. What about da Pans then? How they so quick and potent  :bat:

 

 

I'd guess genetics. Pans might devote more metabolic energy to making the magic molecules so are able to reach higher potency faster (just speculating).

 

Pans might also be even more potent if grown more slowly. I've read people reporting a wide range of Pan potency vs. cubes; some think they're twice as potent, some think 3X, some even more. How fast they are allowed to mature might be what makes the difference.


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#52 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 09 November 2021 - 04:31 PM

I noticed that this summer as well with the temp thing. I was having fluctuations and when it was hot you would get rapid growing, long skinny hollow mushrooms. When colder you would get a little slower growing but very dense hard stem, and not quite as big of a mushroom.


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 09 November 2021 - 04:33 PM.

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#53 Mizamook

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Posted 12 November 2021 - 02:20 AM

All you all just keep on discussing .. I'm here to listen ...


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#54 rockyfungus

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Posted 12 November 2021 - 08:49 AM

Outside in the cold seasons I get short, dense, powerful guys. In the summer they are taller and less magical. 

Who knows if it's a seasonal variance or just winter being calmer and quieter. 


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#55 Mizamook

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Posted 12 November 2021 - 03:10 PM

Might I inquire as to the temperature range in your cold season?

 

Outside in the cold seasons I get short, dense, powerful guys. In the summer they are taller and less magical. 

Who knows if it's a seasonal variance or just winter being calmer and quieter. 



#56 rockyfungus

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Posted 12 November 2021 - 03:55 PM

Coldest I've seen are 40's-30's, working on seeing if I can keep grabbing "colder" fruits. Nothing happened this year. Coldest fruits have been mid 50's. 

Really depends on what species we are talking about. 


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