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Mandated Snitch-Tech for New Cars in Infrastructure Bill


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#1 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 09:54 AM

Drunk driving is bad. Don't do it.
 
But fuck this noise straight to hell.
 

 

MADD Hails Monumental Drunk Driving Prevention Provision in Infrastructure Bill Passed by U.S. House of Representatives

 

The “Advanced Impaired Driving Technology” section of the Infrastructure bill mandates an advanced vehicle technology standard that is expected to prevent more than 9,400 drunk driving deaths annually, according to a 2020 study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

 

https://www.madd.org...representatives

 

[Direct Link]

 

Choice quote from the video: "...all new cars would be equipped with hidden sensors that can detect if you're impaired..."

 

(or are sober but have eccentric mannerisms or behavioral tics, I'd guess)

 

The flip-side of cars disabling themselves when they don't like how you're acting is that there's now a solid defense against a DUI if you get "caught" sleeping a buzz off in the driver's seat, which was how a lot of people avoided driving drunk but got arrested and charged for it anyway because the DUI racket is arguably as much or more about generating revenue as it is safety. If the car can't move and you lack sufficient Admin privileges for "your" vehicle to make it move then you can't possibly be "driving" under the influence, therefore there is no criminal offense being committed.

 

It's going to be regrettable when some poor bastard who lives out in the boonies can't drive someone to the hospital who is bleeding out or having a heart attack or whatever because the only other person available to drive just did a couple of bong hits and the car detected arbitrarily determined signs of impairment.

 

I used to be joking when I said (YEARS ago) that some day our cars would lock us inside and drive us to the police station whenever an arrest warrant is issued or they "just want to ask you a few questions." And the best part is that we're going to work hard and pay a lot of money for the privilege, as well-behaved serfs should.

 

 

I wonder what else is slipping by under the radar in this "Infrastructure" Bill?

 


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#2 Skywatcher

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 10:06 AM

MADD is one of the most radical, extremist groups out there.......


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#3 Myc

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 10:28 AM

If they're considering vaccine passports to assure vaccination........and everybody's cool with that.

 

What's the big deal with sobriety assurances?

 

I mean, it's just one more tiny little step and not that big of a deal (today - for this one other issue).

The idea that some drunk, un-insured asshole, (who is part of the problem), won't be able to drive when he's fucked-up. ....... I kinda like that idea.

Radicalism is strange like that.

 

I imagine that there are a number of warm, fuzzy, protective ideas salted into that legislation to make sure that the "herd" is safe from harm behind the electronic fence they're constructing (via technology).


Edited by Myc, 15 November 2021 - 10:33 AM.

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#4 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 11:21 AM

The idea that some drunk, un-insured asshole, (who is part of the problem), won't be able to drive when he's fucked-up. ....... I kinda like that idea.


 
I like the idea of not being turned into a grease spot by someone driving wasted, too.
 
But there are lots of things we don't do that would make certain crimes a lot harder to commit because the measures taken to prevent them are worse or more problematic than the *potential* crime prevented or are blatantly unconstitutional (not that that matters in the context of DUI, see: The DUI Exception to the Constitution). IMO this tech ought to be an example of something we don't require because it's too onerous vs. the assumed benefit.

 

If Nanny-tech must be implemented then it seems like a more effective plan would be to mandate tech that blocks the driver's access to text messages (and maybe voice calls that aren't hand's-free) while in motion, but there's a stronger moral-outrage aspect to a wreck/injury/fatality caused by a drunk vs. caused by a sober moron sending a text (that's reflected in the laws about both) even though texting and driving is no less dangerous than DUI. They probably get away with it because it looks bad to criticize DUI laws; "So does that mean you're pro-drunk driving?!?"

 

It's going to he an expensive and complex (meaning failure-prone) system that will price even more people out of owning a new car than are already unable to afford one. So this tech will only prevent drunk driving near country clubs for the first ~10 years or so (a serious problem to be sure) until the price of used models that have it trickles-down (heheheh) enough to be affordable to most people. But I'd bet that the people behind developing and manufacturing it donate a lot to MADD and their related legislative PACs. Who wouldn't want some neat gadget they invent to be made legally mandatory? What a racket!

 

The eventual existence of a market for used cars with this tech assumes that the systems will still be functioning properly ten, fifteen, and ideally even twenty years in the future (watch those carbon footprints, y'all!), and Murphy's Law predicts there will be a lot of stone-cold sober drivers with older or problematic vehicles that might be in great mechanical shape but randomly strand them anyway because the Nanny-tech failed.

 

And the system WILL be hacked. That will get interesting, especially if these cars are also networked.



#5 Myc

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 11:30 AM

I totally agree.

And I see parallels inside of parallels followed by .....still more parallels.

We are now - apparently - on that slippery slope we've all acknowledged when it come to the compromise of civil liberty. Too late now. The grease appears to be reducing the coefficient of friction exponentially - compounded daily.


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#6 rockyfungus

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 12:42 PM

I have a newer car and received notice that AT&T would no longer service my car.
I never signed up for any extra plans or assistance. Apparently they got tons of recordings of me singing songs and changing lyrics like a 12 year old.

“Cuz my dick is on your lips”
Ball and Putz (hall & oats)

What about insurance apps wanting to track you for safe driving. Get a little bit off your bill.
It's my right as an AMERIKAN to burn rubber and gas. 

These Tesla’s are super stupid from the people I talk to. I believe you pay for the internet and need it to update the car. You can opt into beta stuff…As a gamer, you are going to brick cars….

Sorry probably off topic with my points. Just hate tech tracking us.

 

Remember the blow to start for alcoholics. They had ways around those too.


Edited by rockyfungus, 15 November 2021 - 01:05 PM.


#7 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 12:52 PM

Man that Jetons future is looking further and further away.

 

The promise of safety in exchange for freedom is a dangerous game to be played and not one to take lightly, of course the safety side always wins on paper because, well they are saving lives!

 

I mean its not like they have an all seeing eye that invades our deepest thoughts and desires and prints out a fact sheet about how to best manipulate your particular physic profile.

 

I remember this one guy talking about different groups and how one would never realize the slope even existed until they hit rock bottom.  Only when the boot is kicking in the door do they realize what has happened.


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 15 November 2021 - 12:52 PM.


#8 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 01:50 PM

I have a newer car and received notice that AT&T would no longer service my car.
I never signed up for any extra plans or assistance. Apparently they got tons of recordings of me singing songs and changing lyrics like a 12 year old.

“Cuz my dick is on your lips”
Ball and Putz (hall & oats)

What about insurance apps wanting to track you for safe driving. Get a little bit off your bill.
It's my right as an AMERIKAN to burn rubber and gas. 

These Tesla’s are super stupid from the people I talk to. I believe you pay for the internet and need it to update the car. You can opt into beta stuff…As a gamer, you are going to brick cars….

Sorry probably off topic with my points. Just hate tech tracking us.

 

Remember the blow to start for alcoholics. They had ways around those too.

 

One of the things about cars coming cellular-enabled as a standard "feature" is that paying for a service plan isn't necessarily the only way such an integrated system might or could be activated.

 

They can cut you off if you don't pay for it, but there's probably no stipulation in all the shit you agree to when you buy the Damned Thing that they won't turn it on if you don't pay for it.


Edited by TVCasualty, 15 November 2021 - 01:51 PM.

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#9 rockyfungus

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 02:24 PM

Hence all the recordings of me being a madman in my car LOL.

I know that my car is selling data about me (probably knows my routine along with my phone), driving data, and a whole bunch of nefarious shit I can't dream up. 


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#10 Myc

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 05:04 PM

I still come back to say, "What are we all crying about?"

After all, we've been begging for these types of controls throughout the pandemic. Now we have it in spades. We're being handed exactly what most of us have been begging for.

 

Awwww man!

You mean we can't "cherry-pick" the things we want the government to control without question?

Mandate vaccine passports but keep your nose out of my private driving affairs - because I have rights when piloting a dangerous explosive machine.

I just can't get ahead of this one, Fucked if I do and fucked if I don't.

 

I feel that I've made my point and therefore, enough said.

Crawling back under my rock to see which of the tribes of 'merica decides to have at each other next. Cackling madly all the while.


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#11 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 08:07 PM

Shit! I just bought this new car cuz it would hold its equity while we transition, the bonus was that if I am Inebriated I am confident that the car keeps me in the lane and alerts me to stuff I have not noticed. (It basically drives itself if I keep one hand on the wheel) You all don't think that is helpful? I mean the principle behind the privacy and choice that we to make such decisions I get that undermines what we are about. But hey, my toll passes recognize me even when I don't have plates. The carwash lets me in on monthly subscription. Heck I don't even need a boarding pass to get on a plane anymore due to the facial recognition. We are long past that illusion of privacy and when AI was unleashed, they just somewhat kept quiet about it to not alarm you. I fought it for a long time but have just recently accepted that is the way things are going to be.

 

If you're the one that keeps fighting that its real, then you may be the last one to figure out how to circumvent the very systems that you're not ready to embrace. I truly hope that my new vehicle will keep me from driving when I really shouldn't be. I hope it's advanced enough to realize the difference from facial ticks and having a puff or a beer vs. several of both. I say this truly from and understanding that even if are TV with great survival skills, that as along as this tech is still powered up, it's too late for us not to accept and learn how to survive in these times. Surveillance Police State is already here, they keep quiet and talk about other things to occupy your mind. Like chaos, pandemics, politics, and divided we are.

As long as I don't plan on being a Violent offender or cutting in the profits of corporations that fund the gov, I am no longer worried about shit like expired tags. I also know better than to drive down to Columbia to pick up bologna or coke.


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#12 rockyfungus

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 08:38 PM

Should we have to sign a EULA before they unleash invasive technology though?

 

 

Was the passenger in a fancy car with all those drivers assist.

I yelled at the driver so many times because I still can't put my trust 100% in the machine to make the correct choice. Deep down I know if the AI is on point it's going to make a much safer decision then I could.

Shit that computer doesn't understand coasting yet. I saw people braking a few 100 feet ahead and would have taken my foot off the gas. When the cars were a dead stop and he hadn't touched the break I yelled before the car made a choice...I grew up playing chicken on the road and doing stupid shit. I don't think I yelled earlier then I needed too. When I was younger I would of been laughing till impact. 

 


Edited by rockyfungus, 15 November 2021 - 08:44 PM.

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#13 TVCasualty

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 10:37 AM

I don't like active collision avoidance systems that steer or brake. I might need to ram a vehicle with mine, and want to have that option available. That might sound odd at first glance, but it's informed by personal experience so it's not theoretical to me that situations can arise where an intentional collision is the right thing to do.

 

The evolution of this tech sounds to me like we're making an exponentially-more expensive, privatized version of a decent public transit system.

 

You get in, it takes you somewhere, Elon Musk 'n' friends get to make even more money, and it looks like the dawn of a techno-utopia is here (we got space cowboys 'n' everything now!) until enough people realize their sweet new cars with lots of fragile and sensitive tech are getting beat to hell real quick on our poorly maintained, shitty roads. How good are Teslas at avoiding suspension (and sensor)-busting potholes, for starters?

 

I really don't think that the companies developing self-driving tech appreciate that a bunch of states still don't even have any vehicle emissions testing because if they did their state economies would tank since so many vehicles would be taken off the road for failing (grounding much of the wage-slave workforce). And none of the people driving all these barely-running old cars want to be, but they can't afford anything else.

 

Unless a program is created that ensures everyone on the road has the latest tech then we might end up in a spectacularly unsafe situation were there's a mix of autonomous and old, analog cars on the highways.

 

I imagine that autonomous vehicles are a lot safer if ALL the vehicles on the road are autonomous, since they can be networked and will act uniformly and predictably in a given situation. When it's a 50/50 mix on the road then the autonomous vehicles will also have to deal with the unpredictability of the humans driving the "old" cars, and that takes an enormous amount of additional bandwidth to process in real-time.

 

What we really need is decent public transit, but the U.S. is too big and everything is spread too far apart thanks to building it all 10X more sprawled out in order to accommodate car culture (it's more like 12X, esp. in car-centric cities like Los Angeles; imagine if LA was 1/12 as sprawled out; public transit suddenly becomes quite affordable, and people might even walk!).

 

But instead of real public transit we all have to buy our own mini semi-public transit system, which is what a car you don't drive using tech you don't own or control seems to me to be analogous to. The only part of it that seems to be truly "mine" in that scenario is the monthly payment required for the privilege of being carried around in it.

 

 

 

 

Should we have to sign a EULA before they unleash invasive technology though?


 

 

 

There should be studies on new tech that are equivalent to how a new drug is studied before mass-producing it. Tech is always just unleashed upon the world as soon as it's invented, as if new must always mean better or that any unintended "side effects" will either be surmountable or reversible. People go to literal rehab for their social media addiction now ffs.

 

The Silicon Valley pseudo-culture of "disruption" doesn't seem to appreciate that if all you do is disrupt existing structures, you might find yourself without any functioning structures if you don't get the timing perfect when replacing them with the new structures you seek to replace them with.

 

The malfunctioning cyborg known as Mark Zuckerberg's now-infamous motto was "move fast and break things." Well he did just that, but the things he broke or was instrumental in breaking real fast turned out to be civility, reason, and Democracy. Hatred, delusion, and Fascism have predictably been filling the vacuum, and it's probably going to get a lot worse since it seems to have crossed an irreversible tipping point and there's no sign of any real robust movement to stop or reverse it. If someone thinks education can do it I would urge them to watch the videos of what's going on at School Board meetings around the country.

 

 

Another thing about excessive reliance on technology that I wonder about is how much of a national security threat having a fully autonomous, networked transportation system presents in the case of either a hack that takes control over critical systems that keep traffic moving or one that shuts it all down completely? Did none of the people working on this stuff watch the 2004 remake of Battlestar Galactica?!? Did they factor in solar flares?

 

It's kind of funny to think about a minor flare fucking with the GPS satellites enough to stop self-driving traffic nationwide since no car would know where it is, potentially leaving you stranded within sight of your destination, or on a route you could drive almost in your sleep if only you were allowed to drive your own car...

 

 


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#14 TVCasualty

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 10:55 AM

I say this truly from and understanding that even if are TV with great survival skills, that as along as this tech is still powered up, it's too late for us not to accept and learn how to survive in these times.

 

I guess the underlying point I'm trying to make with all my meandering concerns is that "these times" can change real fucking fast. As in less than 10 minutes, literally.

 

Especially with regards to tech, since it's either "on" or "off," and as soon as a critical mass of the technology we depend on shuts "off" a whole different set of rules apply. Depending on the scale of disruption, the new rules might be permanent (and they're really more like very old rules being reinstated).

 

I'm decently capable in the world of tech, and am being sucked along into the wake of everything being observed and digitized and networked just like everybody else. But I'm also keeping in mind the challenges we might face if (or rather, when) it fails, and encourage everyone else to as well.

 

How many of us even own any maps anymore? The whole system doesn't have to go down to put us in a bad situation. All that needs to happen is for our phone to break while out in unfamiliar territory; which way do we go now? Too bad we didn't keep an atlas in the trunk just in case...

 

I think the reason I'm skeptical of autonomous-driving and other tech is the same reason why even the most advanced military forces in the world still ultimately rely on soldiers with plain ol' rifles. There's a flexibility and resilience to be found in analog simplicity that gets proportionally lower as the complexity of a given system increases.


Edited by TVCasualty, 16 November 2021 - 10:57 AM.

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#15 Myc

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 11:18 AM

Ride a bicycle. -- One you have to pedal. They're really tough for AI to steer or brake.

Pedaling a bicycle regularly also has a great number of health benefits and might serve to enhance the immune system against pesky infections.  Daily booster rides are required though in order to keep up the benefits.

 

Road maps?

Still got one for every state I travel in the glovebox.

Problem is, I'm getting too old to see the fine print even with glasses lately. I had one out just a couple of weeks ago looking for an alternative route home because...............you'll laugh at this one................I've never used GPS guided mapping on my phone.  I don't know how !  Even if I could, I would need a TV screen as a phone to be able to make any sense of the map.

My aging bio-tech needs a software update. Maybe we could find another use for this mRna stuff. Nah........the overlords wouldn't let us have something that neato.


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#16 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 05:45 PM

Now testing! automated drive thrus at mcdonalds. I am sure those orders will never get messed up now... It will probably work like a charm haha, just to show me up

 

I understand the idea that in the future automating traffic would likely reduce incidents of death an injury. Come to think of it automated cars would be a great help to the elderly who have difficulty driving themselves. I only want the option to make the choice is all. Yeah you still sell those cars without the nanny control, okay cool I will take one of those. Oh what's that the FBI worked with the car manufacturer to install a back door in all cars, oh far out.

 

Simple things like the Iphone automatically turning on its blue tooth every morning is an invasion of my life and I despise it. Obviously I don't loose sleep about it, honestly barely even think about it but it would be nice to be able to choose. A simple stupid thing but for some reason it bothered me when I realized they had seized control of how my phone operate its functions. I think what it often comes down to psychologically is giving up the feeling of control. Some of us are way more comfortable in various situations doing that. High dose mushrooms would be a good example of where I feel very comfortable releasing control. Riding on an amusement ride also great way to give up absolute control. Hop on an airplane or train, giving up control. An automated vehicle on a highway filed with regular drivers is a little unsettling to me but perhaps all it would take is a few rides and my mind would be changed.

 

The data collection game will never go away due to insane profits. If there was a good product that advertised absolutely no data collection and zero spying I would buy it in a second. Not holding my breath on that one though.

 

Its actually a bit of fun to bust out one of those maps and read it, I imagine driving a car might feel the same way for some poeple after we have given up control.

 

 If anything we have proven this last couple of years that we really don't have the ability to say "that will never happen" anymore. As much as I do like to embrace technology on plenty of levels. I have a really hard time accepting the nanny state as a necessary evil, even though I know I am absolutely immersed in it and escape is almost impossible.

 

I accept it out of futility but I don't have to like it.



#17 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 11:40 AM

Speaking of the unexpected. Rain and snow can make dangerous flooding combination

 

Turns out you don't even need to worry about self driving cars when there are no longer any roads for them to drive on. The automated gps function failing will be the least of your worries. People are trapped in small communities with no clue how they are going to leave.

 

post-160704-0-11073800-1637512463.png

 

AD341A68-BC9B-473F-80D3-DE6B7FF613AA.jpe

 

sumas-air-flooding2.jpg?quality=85&strip

 

https://dailyhive.co...ood-bc-flooding

 

Back in our province the same winter storm made road conditions extreme and left motorists stranded on a double lane highway for 14 hours, starting and stopping your vehicle for heat hoping you don't run out of gas. I gotta say I would not want to have a tesla in that situation.

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Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 21 November 2021 - 11:41 AM.

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#18 roc

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 06:59 PM

Buried in an infrastructure bill?
WTF are these dictators doing?

 

I'm all about tech and progress and am still on top of it at my age but give me a break with these commie bastards burying shit like this in an infrastructure bill.

 

Another 3000 page bill they want to pass before anyone can read it?
Our government overreach is now far exceeding our privacy.

 

End of rant!


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#19 rockyfungus

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Posted 26 November 2021 - 04:10 PM

https://www.theatlan...crashes/620808/

Really interesting read and something I've noticed over the years.

One bit that stood out is your driving on a road that's marked 55. You go another mile and it drops to 45 as it approaches town. Then the road dips even slower as you get even more into town. You strike someone because they pull out or walk out. Who cares. The issue was not YOU, it was the design of the roads. The road could of narrowed or narrowed the spacing of the lines on the road.
I've been on countless rides where my autopilot says this is 55 and it's a 35...The lines are spaced wrong and why the hell is it 3 lanes?

Have you noticed you drive slower in narrow and busy areas compared to open road.
Still making my way through the article. But bigger cars, shitty roads, and putting fucking TABLETS in cars. I thought cellphones were bad here's a tablet for all your controls.


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#20 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 27 November 2021 - 10:07 AM

That is a good point, surely everyone knows that one intersection that is prone to accidents for whatever reason. Be it too much traffic or poor design.

 

I have hear some whispers around suppression of news stories surrounding automatic car crashes. Now why would they want to go ahead and do that? hahaha


Edited by FLASHINGROOSTER, 27 November 2021 - 10:09 AM.

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