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limiting factors of flushes?????


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#1 kilo.p

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Posted 18 November 2021 - 05:00 AM

I'm trying to gain a better understanding of the life cycle and growth process of mushrooms. I think I got the basics. Spores form mycelium which colonize a substrate to a point where its able to produce fruits and more spores. Basically.

 But as far as the mycelium producing fruits, what limits a cake or casing to x amount of flushes. A depletion of its nutrients and water are obviously factors, but is there something on a genetic level that tells mycelium to only produce so many fruits? If so, would a casing made from recolonized cakes initial fruit be considered its 1st or lets say 3rd flush assuming it flushed twice as a cake?

 

Apologies If I overlooked this info somewhere on the site, there is a lot of information here and I'm trying to put it all together. Thanks for any input

 

 

 



#2 TVCasualty

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Posted 18 November 2021 - 10:32 AM

Senescence is a hard limit to growth that eventually overtakes all other variables.

 

Even if a colonized substrate can be "fed" and re-hydrated as nutrients and water are depleted while also removing metabolic waste products ("myc piss"), that has to happen all without introducing contamination at any point in the process.

 

That is particularly difficult in the case of feeding it, which is why no one does that to their subs. More than once, that is; many give it a try when they're still trying to master the process since it seems like it should work and would be a great advantage if it did. It's the kind of idea that a friend of mine describes as "unencumbered by practical experience," which can rarely produce awesome counter-intuitive breakthroughs but mostly don't work in practice. It's the embodiment of the observation that "In theory, there should be no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there's a difference."

 

 

 

If so, would a casing made from recolonized cakes initial fruit be considered its 1st or lets say 3rd flush assuming it flushed twice as a cake?

 

Do you mean taking spent cakes and using them as a source of casing material?

 

The question was phrased kind of ambiguously.

 

 

And FWIW, when searching the site for something specific it's much more productive to use DuckDuckGo or even g**gle if necessary (DDG sometimes gives far fewer and less-relevant results than GGL, but DDG doesn't track your searches). To search for a given topic or something a member has posted I get good results from typing (for example): "mycotopia[dot]net" "tvcasualty" "[keyword of the thing I'm looking for]"

 

if I'm looking for something I posted.

 

 

Edit: It's kind of blowing my mind that you've been a member here almost as long as I have.


Edited by TVCasualty, 18 November 2021 - 10:34 AM.

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#3 jkdeth

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Posted 18 November 2021 - 11:07 AM

Man Im at the " Im so old I know things, but forget why" stage, so I cant provide citations, but a mycelium mass in a contained grow has a fixed, unknown amount of fruit it will produce.. You cant really change that. How much of that you get is dependent on the conditions you provide.

You ncan increase the potential size of that number through cloning or isolation.

Providing ideal conditions helps pull that amount faster. For instance getting most of that potential in one a couple of flushes as opposed to 4 or 5 flushes.

In theory it seems you might feed the myceliium and get more, but mycelium kind of has a one track mind. After producing fruit and sporulating it kind if shuts down. Its done its job. Its hard to get it to revert to the beginning of the life cycle.

Doesn't apply the same to outdoor grows, completely different dynamic there. But you can see the same process in action in fairy rings. The mycelium expands seasonally, fruit being produced by new growth, in effectively new substrate.
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#4 kilo.p

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Posted 18 November 2021 - 09:05 PM

Ok, thanks for the input. Yea I used to mess around on this site years ago when I first started but in between then and now I haven't done much with the hobby. Sorry for the ambiguous nature of the question. To clarify I have a couple casings that flushed once. I'm limited on space and had others I  wanted in the FC but didn't have the heart to just dispose the old casings.  I went ahead and crumbled them into some empty totes, big ones, and mixed in some straw I had on hand. No attention was given to being sterile, no measurement. Just a bunch of shit thrown in a tote.

  I had kinda forgotten them but when I did recently check on em they seemed to be doing great. They tore through straw and look very healthy.

 

 It  got me thinking about the possibilities of an endless cake, like a willy-wonka gobstopper that never lost flavor. I figured introducing more nutrients could cause contam issues and be impractical. My question was more along the lines of genetic limits of the mycelium. Your feedback gave me the info I  was looking for. There is a different dynamic for organisms in nature and ones in a controlled environment like we provide. Furthermore, some things that seem possible in theory are anything but that in practice.

 

 Thanks again for the wisdom and the time it took to share it. Its greatly appreciated.     


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#5 jkdeth

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Posted 19 November 2021 - 09:39 AM

Sound3 great. After all the sciency stuff, still important to have fun with it.

Ive stuck a cake or two in the potted plants just for fun. Didn't do a lot, but it kind of neat having random cubes pop up in the basil.
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