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Twitter is Now Overtly Pro-Fascist


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#21 shiftingshadows

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 05:27 PM

I always thought it was insane that China was literally building cities with nobody living in them. How long could this last I wondered. The official story was the people would come. If we build it they..... as shit

 

 
Indeed it was strange, but apparently there are other examples:
 
 
and
 


#22 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 05:43 PM

Those links are dead for me not working.

 

I recently watched a video where some Chinese investors bought a big piece of swamp land on the east coast of Canada. The locals were baffled why anyone would think it was a good place to build a luxury resort.



#23 shiftingshadows

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Posted 20 December 2021 - 05:52 PM

One link is called :

 Tehran’s Desert Ghost Towers look like a Zombie Movie Waiting to Happen

 

a general search term was:

https://duckduckgo.c......&t=h_&ia=web

 

https://duckduckgo.c...ity&t=h_&ia=web

 

the china phenomenon may be on a much bigger scale


Edited by shiftingshadows, 20 December 2021 - 05:53 PM.

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#24 TVCasualty

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 06:12 PM

Thanks TV

I emailed Prof Richard Wrangham, re: Dundar's #, & got a reply:

I quote one sentence: "Briefly - I see it as utterly unscientific to choose a single ("Dunbar's") number from graphs that relate "group size" to some measure of brain size." etc.

and he referred me to this article:

 

link here:

 

www.lindenfors.se/publications/Lindenfors_et_al_2021.pdf

 

a search for the article also yielded this:

 

https://duckduckgo.c...021&t=h_&ia=web

 

I have not had time to read Lindenfors yet, but it seems that 'Dunbar's Number' is an idea I found attractive, at one time, that may not bear closer scrutiny.

 

Dunbar's Number is just an intriguing hypothesis based on correlating data, so was not presented as a scientific finding. His paper in the Journal of Human Evolution appears to have been a meta-study of extant data from various sources but I'm having trouble finding the whole paper (paywalled or my browser's script blockers, not sure which).

 

To me, the concept was the beginning of exploring what seems to me to be a real phenomenon that calls for actual, robust studies. The Story of Us describes what I'd expect to happen among a vast population of individuals who did not evolve as a collective organism (e.g., ants, bees, etc.). Ants have no apparent limit to the size of their colonies (the average ant has 50,000 friends on Facebook and keeps in close touch with them all) but the trade-off appears to be a much lower limit to their individual cognitive abilities and degrees of freedom to act independently. Kind of like humans on Facebook who claim thousands of "friends," but I digress.

 

 

I suspect that what Dunbar was getting at (a proposed limit to how many meaningful relationships we're capable of maintaining) explains things like Monarchies, where the monarch functions as a de facto proxy for all of "their" nation's inhabitants, who thereby have a relationship (of sorts) to each other through the mutual proxy of the King or Queen. That social connection everyone has to each other via their (usually abstract) relationship to the monarch is pretty much what defines and maintains the "kingdom" (which is also an abstract construct). Representative democracies seem to fit the bill, too. They're just a different manifestation of the same basic phenomenon.

 

So if there were truly no limit to how many relationships we could maintain cohesively then we would likely (IMO) have developed considerably different social, cultural, and political structures. And the growing pathology of social media also seems to support this since being able to directly interact with untold millions of people all the time doesn't seem to be working very well for us in general.

 

Human society is really weird; sort of collective and sort of individual at the same time. I'm curious to know how that works, and why. Gotta pass the time somehow, I guess. If the speculative flashlight I'm using at the moment doesn't help illuminate much I'll toss it and find a new one. Wouldn't be the first time.



#25 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 06:24 PM

Made it to chapter four last night

 

I think I gave up on that story of us last time too quickly there is definitely some good work in tying these interesting concepts together. The relationship between what I often refer to as our subconscious and conscious minds seem to be basically different terms for primitive and high mind. Combining that with the group think idea, or super organism in this case is very interesting. Although I find the latter term to be a better explanation of how that part of it all works. That part I still have plenty of thinking to do, new thoughts very cool.

 

I am acting out for we or me? Nobody is safe from that as far as I can tell.



#26 shiftingshadows

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Posted 24 December 2021 - 04:13 AM

.   I read one of Dunbar's books ages ago. As I recall he used the idea to explain many of the evils of civilization.

And it sure sounded good at the time.

The business about number of friends, gets most of the attention today because of a movie and social media.

He attempted to base his number on brain size, which the pdf I linked to shows to be poor science.

 

Grooming, Gossip, and the Evolution of Language Hardcover – March 10, 1997
by Prof. Robin Dunbar (Author)
available on Amazon for $3.95 used
 
.   Prof Richard Wrangham, makes the point that humans are to some degree self domesticated (All tribal peoples murder aka execute, those Alph males aka really nasty bullies, who make life miserable for everyone else) thus reactive aggression in our species is about 1000Xs less than in chimpanzees, as it has been selected against for 10s of thousands of years. Proactive aggression is another story.
.   The result is that we are much calmer than chimps and tolerate being among strangers. Where as chimps cannot tolerate strangers, and routinely scream, jump around,  & fight even among their own extended family group. The video is surprising.
.  Both Mark Moffett and Prof Wrangham have many good videos on youtube, Richard has good slides, videos of chimps, and details of many experiments, in his lectures. Both are also featured in interviews.

Edited by shiftingshadows, 24 December 2021 - 04:20 AM.


#27 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 April 2022 - 01:15 PM

Elon Musk bought just under a 10% stake in Twitter, and was just added to their Board. He bought it around 20 days ago (SEC requires disclosure of passive stakes within 10 days but the fine for failing to do so is a mere $100K, so there's no reason for someone like Musk to comply).

 

He calls himself a "free speech absolutist."

 

Someone replied to a comment to that effect with a meme from Star Wars: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

 

Musk has already made a billion dollars in unrealized gains on his stock purchase thanks to its price rising significantly on the public finding out about it. Someone else made millions who found out about it before the public did, curiously.

 

 

I have no idea what the effect of this will be, but my intuition doesn't like the smell of any of it except for the Star Wars quote. One statistic that really drives our current insanity home is that Musk has so much money ($267.3 billion as of this post, which will be obsolete as soon as I post it) that it's equal to making $362,071.49 every single DAY since 1/1/0001 (Jan. 1st., 1 AD). For him 100 grand is not even a rounding error.



#28 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 05 April 2022 - 03:12 PM

Other than the speed of it would that be much different than say Jeff Bezos's owning his own news company?



#29 TVCasualty

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 07:58 AM

It seems similar to Bezos owning the Post, and probably was done for similar reasons.

 

The irony of the Post suggesting that Musk's stock purchase might be bad for free speech was kind of breathtaking in it's scale (and lack of self-awareness).

 

I suspect that at least one of the reasons for the richest people in the world buy stuff like that is that it's directly related to the maintenance of their power and wealth. They have the data that proves how powerful things like Facebook and Twitter are in terms of manipulating public opinion ("free speech" my ass; eliminate bots, shills, 'promoted content,' echo-chamber algorithms, etc. and then we can start talking about 'free speech').

 

Or for that matter manipulating people's conception of reality itself, which has led to a rise in parody accounts that somehow actually fool a lot of people into believing they're real: https://twitter.com/3YearLetterman

 

 

I suspect that the true power and influence of Twitter is still vastly underappreciated by most.

 

It's almost literally being marinated in dopamine, one tiny hit at a time. That has got to have a significant effect on how we think and react to things, or rather not-think and react to them. If there's hard data that supports this then Musk would be aware of it, and there almost certainly is a LOT of such data at this point since most of Silicon Valley seems obsessed with sucking up every bit of it about everything that everyone does all the time that they can (which is virtually all of it).

 

 

 

FPWOEcxXMAcxINT.jpeg


Edited by TVCasualty, 06 April 2022 - 07:59 AM.

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#30 shiftingshadows

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 02:36 PM

Given this

 

 

1428380014-albert-einstein-funny-quotes-two-things-are-infinite-the-universe-and-human.jpg

 

I doubt knowing or even having access to "truth" would do our species much good

 

for example Global Warming....


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#31 Juthro

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 02:53 PM

IMO, if you're looking in those places to find truth, you're already lost.  People don't go to twitter, or fakebook to find truth, they go there to find reassurances of what they already want to believe.



#32 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 04:17 PM

haha fuck me I should not have watched those interviews, guess who pointed out in their Oliver Stone interviews a few years back about the great power behind the western owned and influenced social media structure?  Saying conventional media and or propaganda coming out of Russia didn't stand a chance against it.

 

Scary when a robot knows more about you than you do. Want to know something about somebody all you have to do is ask the Robot. I know a girl who worked at a university and regards to admission marketing she said it was crazy. The amount of detailed information about who you are as a person was unreal when only based from simple things like age, gender, and geographical location. I like the term surveillance capitalism, it seems to fit the bill considering the bulk of spying shifted from the government over to private enterprise. The intelligence agencies buy their data from google and amazon now rather than deal with the shit show of controversy that is "the government is spying on us".  Turns out we don't care as long as we can escape having to pay a couple of bucks for an app.



#33 shiftingshadows

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 09:01 PM

"Scary when a robot knows more about you than you do."

 

Do you already know the story of Eliza the computer 'therapist' ?

 

... if not, it is perhaps an amusing commentary on the subject?

 

https://duckduckgo.c...a=b&t=hr&ia=web

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

 

https://duckduckgo.c...a=b&t=hr&ia=web

 

http://scihi.org/jos...izenbaum-eliza/


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#34 shiftingshadows

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 09:05 PM

And another oldie but goodie

 

https://duckduckgo.c...a=b&t=hr&ia=web

 

https://www.forbes.c...sh=71a273256668

 

might as well laugh...



#35 TVCasualty

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Posted 07 April 2022 - 02:21 PM

I had ELIZA on an Apple IIe.

 

It was kind of interesting and funny to play with for about half an hour, but that's all I remember about it.

 

 

 

 

IMO, if you're looking in those places to find truth, you're already lost.  People don't go to twitter, or fakebook to find truth, they go there to find reassurances of what they already want to believe.

 

 

I think it's a fascinating source of perspective rather than truth.

 

You can hear voices there that respond to current events that you'd never hear in regular media, and usually within minutes of whatever event is occurring. I remember seeing video of the massive explosion in the port of Beirut 10 minutes after it happened, which was long before ANY media outlet started reporting it.

 

I've also seen newsworthy imagery on those sites that never makes it to regular media, and when backed up by multiple angles of the same event taken from different cameras all posting in real-time then there can be a level of crowd-sourced credibility to what we're seeing that seems really hard to fake (at least for now). I suspect that this is the main aspect of platforms like Twitter and TikTok that the tech-bro Oligarchs like Musk want to figure out how to manipulate and control even more than they already do.

 

 


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#36 Juthro

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Posted 07 April 2022 - 02:36 PM

I agree that there are nuggets of truth floating around those platforms, and I do understand the power and influence these platforms have.   I'm just not sure it's worth wading through the piles of blatant crap that's also there to find them.  I guess a more accurate way to put it is, it's not worth it to me.

 

 

 


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#37 shiftingshadows

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Posted 07 April 2022 - 04:48 PM

I had ELIZA on an Apple IIe.

 

It was kind of interesting and funny to play with for about half an hour, but that's all I remember about it.

 

 

 

 

 

That relates to your lack of "neediness".

Many have pets instead of therapists.

It might seem that social media fill a similar vacuum in some peoples' lives.

As well as TV, etc.

In fact, back in 2014, this study showed that:

 

"People Choose Electric Shocks Over Sitting Quietly for 15 Minutes and Thinking In psychology experiment one man shocked himself 190 times rather than sit doing nothing.
Most people would rather be doing something than sitting alone thinking, a new study finds, even if it involves self-administering a painful electric shock."
 

https://duckduckgo.c...a=b&t=hr&ia=web


Edited by shiftingshadows, 07 April 2022 - 04:50 PM.


#38 TVCasualty

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Posted 08 April 2022 - 11:47 AM

"People Choose Electric Shocks Over Sitting Quietly for 15 Minutes and Thinking In psychology experiment one man shocked himself 190 times rather than sit doing nothing.
Most people would rather be doing something than sitting alone thinking, a new study finds, even if it involves self-administering a painful electric shock."
 
https://duckduckgo.c...a=b&t=hr&ia=web


 
After reading about how common "cutting" is becoming among teenagers (particularly girls), I'm not surprised. Though in the case of teen girls I suspect it has a completely different cause (and is being greatly exacerbated by social media, which is proving effective at spreading numerous social contagions far and wide real fast).
 
Teen boys are increasingly suffering erectile dysfunction (when trying to have actual sex) thanks to becoming "pornsick" from watching lots of increasingly-graphic videos: Graphic pornography is making teen boys ‘impotent’ and leading to violent and selfish sex acts

 

Teen girls are understandably not thrilled about that, so a lot of them don't want to be girls at all anymore (can't really blame them) and now they believe they don't have to be if they so choose, which I guess is why in some places there's been a "4000% explosion in presentations of children with gender dysphoria" which seems to me to be very strong evidence of a social cause.

 

Then there's the aptly-named TikTok causing literal tics among teen girls: https://health.cleve...-in-teen-girls/

 

 

Maybe the message isn't the problem? Maybe the medium itself is, as Marshall McLuhan was trying to warn us: "The medium is the message." He got even more explicit with the title of his most famous book: The Medium is the Massage (should be required reading for everyone IMO)

 

 


I agree that there are nuggets of truth floating around those platforms, and I do understand the power and influence these platforms have.   I'm just not sure it's worth wading through the piles of blatant crap that's also there to find them.  I guess a more accurate way to put it is, it's not worth it to me.

 

 

I hear you. Using such a platform without being driven crazy by it requires carefully curating what you subject yourself to. I check in on the feeds of a relatively few individuals who I respect and are credible (or entertaining) to me, or who are relevant to a particular issue or incident or whatever. Just wandering aimlessly around a place like Twitter tends to get one quickly sucked into an infinite rabbit-hole outrageous offensiveness, doom-scrolling, and trolling so you have to go in with a plan to avoid that.

 

 


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#39 Juthro

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 11:22 AM

It seems that Elon's 9.2% wasn't enough to sway the rest of the board to his ideas, and he has decided not to be a member of the board, although no official reason was given.    Musk had tweeted ideas for how to shake up the company over the weekend, including removing ads, giving blue checkmarks to subscribers who pay $3 a month, and turning Twitter’s headquarters into a homeless shelter. Those tweets have since been deleted.


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#40 TVCasualty

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Posted 11 April 2022 - 03:15 PM

Yeah, and the people celebrating his change of heart are not thinking it through. There's a distinct possibility that he only bailed on joining the Board because being on it would limit him to a ~14% stake whereas now he is free to commence with a hostile takeover and buy 51%. Which would not cost him very much, relatively speaking.

 

Twitter has something around 800 million shares outstanding, costs $47.00/share as of right this second so to buy another 41.8% would only cost him another $16 billion (give or take $300 million, which is about what Musk makes per day right now).






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