24 replies to this topic

[SlipperyJack]

Hello friends,

 

I have been absent for about a year or so, due to life getting in the way.

I am finally making some time to circle back around to trying a DMT extract.

I know that there were some threads last year... one particularly good one.

I will spend time sifting through stuff over the coming weeks, and I may create a thread about my progress in hopes of getting some advice as I go.

But... can any of you recommend threads where I should focus on?

 

Full disclosure...

I am very new to the DMT extraction process.

I have read A LOT about it, and watched some great videos that I have archived.

I have a bag of MHRB in my pantry that I bought with the full intention of working on it... then, well, life...

Nothing else, so I will need to buy some supplies.

One serious concern of mine is when the stock is basified... All the videos I have seen do it in glass... This kinda terrifies me, because I will be doing it in my kitchen.  Glass can break.  I don't need an acid burn!  What kind of containers do you recommend?  I prefer to do my work (mushrooms) in glass, but for me the risk is too great for this project.  So I need to know what kind of plastic supplies (containers, pipettes, etc.) to look for.

 

I have a shit ton more questions as I weave through this.

I won't bore you any specific questions at the moment, because I will probably have a lot of them answered as I dig.

So if you can help me focus my attention on some specific resources, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks so much!

 

[coorsmikey]

Cool! A fresh DMT thread to inspire an extraction!

 

If the glass terrifies you, perhaps ponder on the idea of of plastic melting with heat or by solvent? Then come up with a back up plan in case of glass breakage such as building confidence in a sink and wearing proper PPE. I would never consider working with a piping hot Base on my LVP or carpet in a glass or plastic container, but porcelain or stainless sink and a glass cooktop with a crappy pan to catch any malfunctions I am good.

[tregar]

Hi SlipperyJack, welcome back. 

 

https://mycotopia.ne...r-tongue/page-1

hxxps://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/page-1

 

part 11: From the archives of DMT world: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask 

 

Heat resistant, no mess, 3 pulls back to back, all done, from the archives of DMT world. 

[Phineas_Carmichael]

Borosilicate lab glass really is the safest, but if you're worried about clumsiness you have other options.

A quick Google search for HDPE labware or HDPE beakers or something similar will get you some plastic stuff that will hold up to a DMT extraction. If you don't want glass, High Density PolyEthylene is the next best thing. A full set of beakers and graduated cylinders shouldn't run you more than 50USD. Shoot, for another 50 you could probably even get an HDPE sep funnel!

I'm not very vocal, but I check in every day. I'm here to answer any and all questions you might have. Let's get this done!

[SlipperyJack]

Thanks for the perspective coors...

So I have 2 concerns with breaking glass.

Keep in mind, that most videos I have seen that use glass are using basic mason jars.

 

1. Losing my material.  I suppose if I do all my work IN my sink, INSIDE a glass 8" baking pan, if the jar does break, I won't lose my material.

2. Burns.  When basifying, if the jar breaks, I have a risk of burn.  There is no pressure involved, so there won't be any 'explosion', just a break and a drain.  If I wear glasses and gloves I should be fine?  Also, just in case, since I am basifying, if I have a bottle of cleaning vinegar on hand to soak any skin contact points, I should be fine?

 

Does that make sense?

 

 

Cool! A fresh DMT thread to inspire an extraction!

 

If the glass terrifies you, perhaps ponder on the idea of of plastic melting with heat or by solvent? Then come up with a back up plan in case of glass breakage such as building confidence in a sink and wearing proper PPE. I would never consider working with a piping hot Base on my LVP or carpet in a glass or plastic container, but porcelain or stainless sink and a glass cooktop with a crappy pan to catch any malfunctions I am good.

[SlipperyJack]

Thanks tregar,

 

Your post prompted a question:

What is a typical DMT 'dose'?

I still haven't decided if I'll be smoking or ingesting.

I would like to smoke because of the instant onset, and not needing an MAOI, but I don't look forward to the horrible taste.

 

I have 500g of MHRB.

Just trying to figure out approximately how much a successful extract couldyield me.

 

 

 

Hi SlipperyJack, welcome back. 

 

https://mycotopia.ne...r-tongue/page-1

hxxps://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/page-1

 

part 11: From the archives of DMT world: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask 

 

Heat resistant, no mess, 3 pulls back to back, all done, from the archives of DMT world. 

 

[pharmer]

Almost on topic: What's the shelf life of MHRB? Let's say it was stored in shrink wrap for 8 years or so. Still good?

[Phineas_Carmichael]

If you can find an HDPE insert that fits in your sink that would be an excellent way to contain spills. They're usually found in housewares & big box stores, often bundled with dish drying racks. My family often uses them to soak their feet in warm Epsom salt solution after a long day, but the Carmichaels tend to be odd ducks...

As far as burns go, I think you're overly concerned. The pH 14 liquid isn't really "instantly melt your flesh off" dangerous but you should still treat it like it is. More like "Oops, got a little on me, better rinse that off in the next 2 minutes or I'll have a red mark tomorrow." Gloves & goggles are a must just in case, as well as long sleeves, long pants, and proper shoes.

The real danger is getting the crystalline NaOH on your skin or (G-d forbid) in your eyes. It can actually burn (like fire burn, not chemical burn) you because it releases so much heat when it dissolves in water from sweat or eyeball juice.

Baking soda solution is actually better than vinegar for neutralizing skin spills because it takes care of acids AND bases. I did a very stupid experiment in post 15 of this thread:
https://mycotopia.ne...all-extractors/
Want to read a horrifying story of someone getting crystalline NaOH in their eye?
https://mycotopia.ne...naoh-in-my-eye/
It turns out okay.

For liquid skin spills, rinsing copiously with tap water is usually just fine.

I always recommend a 100g extraction, especially for 1st timers. It's a very manageable size, doesn't take a lot of time or materials, easy to fix if things go sideways, and with 1% yield you end up with 1g of DMT. For me, a breakthrough dose is 50mg smoked (the taste isnt really that bad, like aquarium tubing or brand new sneakers), so that's 20 solid trips from 100g of bark. You'll probably burn through some figuring out your ideal dosage & smoking method, but you're pretty much guaranteed at the very least 1 good ride out of your first 100g of bark. And then you've still got 4 times that much left to extract...

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 04 February 2022 - 01:07 AM.

[Phineas_Carmichael]

Almost on topic: What's the shelf life of MHRB? Let's say it was stored in shrink wrap for 8 years or so. Still good?

Well, the target molecule is probably in the plant as a salt, and salts tend to be very shelf-stable. Oxygen & heat are the enemies of alkaloids but salts don't readily oxidize, and DMT salts tend to have very high boiling points. Plus to that, even if the DMT in the bark has degraded after 8 years, all the constituent parts are still there in the bark. They CAN be manipulated back into freebase DMT. Better living through chemistry and all that.

I say give the old bark a go with a small quick-and-dirty extraction & see what you get. If the yield ends up low one could assume oxidation is the culprit and add a reduction reaction in the acidic phase of further experiments.

I've read far more success stories than failures with old botanicals...

[SlipperyJack]

Thanks again Phineas,

 

So for spill response, I need:

-Baking soda diluted in water (at capacity?) for acid or base body contact

-Vinegar for base spills (floor, counter, etc.)

 

If you can find an HDPE insert that fits in your sink that would be an excellent way to contain spills. They're usually found in housewares & big box stores, often bundled with dish drying racks. My family often uses them to soak their feet in warm Epsom salt solution after a long day, but the Carmichaels tend to be odd ducks...

As far as burns go, I think you're overly concerned. The pH 14 liquid isn't really "instantly melt your flesh off" dangerous but you should still treat it like it is. More like "Oops, got a little on me, better rinse that off in the next 2 minutes or I'll have a red mark tomorrow." Gloves & goggles are a must just in case, as well as long sleeves, long pants, and proper shoes.

The real danger is getting the crystalline NaOH on your skin or (G-d forbid) in your eyes. It can actually burn (like fire burn, not chemical burn) you because it releases so much heat when it dissolves in water from sweat or eyeball juice.

Baking soda solution is actually better than vinegar for neutralizing skin spills because it takes care of acids AND bases. I did a very stupid experiment in post 15 of this thread:
https://mycotopia.ne...all-extractors/
Want to read a horrifying story of someone getting crystalline NaOH in their eye?
https://mycotopia.ne...naoh-in-my-eye/
It turns out okay.

For liquid skin spills, rinsing copiously with tap water is usually just fine.

I always recommend a 100g extraction, especially for 1st timers. It's a very manageable size, doesn't take a lot of time or materials, easy to fix if things go sideways, and with 1% yield you end up with 1g of DMT. For me, a breakthrough dose is 50mg smoked (the taste isnt really that bad, like aquarium tubing or brand new sneakers), so that's 20 solid trips from 100g of bark. You'll probably burn through some figuring out your ideal dosage & smoking method, but you're pretty much guaranteed at the very least 1 good ride out of your first 100g of bark. And then you've still got 4 times that much left to extract...

[bezevo]

Decent lab glas can be bought on amazon or ebay /

 

for reasnable prices

Edited by bezevo, 04 February 2022 - 06:33 PM.

[SlipperyJack]

I guess instead of starting a new thread, I will continue this one regarding my extraction process.

 

So, I am planning STEP 1.

 

Note: This is basically from information that I have gleaned from Cantelmo tek.  Please comment as you see fit.  From what I understand, it is an acid to base process.

 

STEP 1

-100g shredded Brazilian MHRB (thought I had 500g, only have 250g)

-into crock pot slow cooker

-add 3 cups water

-add 1/2 cup vinegar

-heat on low for 3-4 hours

-after cooling, strain liquid into jar

 

So, that is what I am considering my STEP 1.

 

Some questions:

-Can I cook the MHRB again, or is once all that I am going to get out of it?

-Will the DMT 'boil off'?  If I cook it for too long?  Or is it safe?

-From what I understand, the liquid is very shelf stable... meaning that once I complete this step, if I store the liquid for weeks before I get around to the next step, there isn't any loss of potency.  I mean, where would the DMT go, right?  I suppose I just answered my own question.

 

Thoughts?

Thanks for all your support!

Edited by SlipperyJack, 04 February 2022 - 07:57 PM.

[SlipperyJack]

I guess it has been too long since I posted, so I cannot edit my last post anymore.

I have been spending the morning doing some reading, mainly the great thread from last year started by FLASHINGROOSTER.

I read it then, and it has been very informative to read again.

Phineas and Norman are fantastic!

 

So I have modified my STEP 1 a little bit:

 

STEP 1

1. 100g shredded Brazilian MHRB (thought I had 500g, only have 250g)

2. into crock pot slow cooker

3. add 3 cups water

4. add 1/2 cup vinegar

5. heat on low for 3 hours

6. after cooling, strain liquid into jar

7. repeat above steps 2 more times (total of 3 cooks)

 

So, that is what I am considering my STEP 1.

 

Some questions:

-Can I cook the MHRB again, or is once all that I am going to get out of it? YES

-Will the DMT 'boil off'?  If I cook it for too long?  Or is it safe? NO

-From what I understand, the liquid is very shelf stable... meaning that once I complete this step, if I store the liquid for weeks before I get around to the next step, there isn't any loss of potency.  I mean, where would the DMT go, right?  I suppose I just answered my own question.

 

After reading, I think I am going to bail on the mason jars, and find some HDPE bottles, even if I have to buy them.

I am also going to splurge and buy a separator funnel... it seems like it will be more than worth the cost in saved effort and frustration.  I have a small glass eye-dropper if I need a little bit of fine work done.

It will be instrumental in establishing my fledgling soap making business (thanks Phineas).

 

I think I am going to get my cooks out of the way this weekend.

Work is starting to get busy, and my plan was hopefully to get an extraction under my belt by the end of February before the Gates of Hell open up for me for a few months.

[YoshiTrainer]

Old, clean milk jugs work nicely, they are HDPE. Old rubbing alcohol bottles work too.

FlashingRooster's thread is a good one!
Tregar's use of Norman's extraction looks good too.

Good luck!

[Phineas_Carmichael]

You're definitely on the right path Jack. The only thing I'd add is you're going to want to reduce the volume of the combined acid extract by boiling it on the stove for a while before moving on. Try and aim for 2 cups if you can get it that condensed without burning it.

Also make sure your sep funnel is big enough. 1L is usually plenty big for an extraction this size, 500mL might work.

Baking soda solution (about 100g/L at room temp) for skin, vinegar for floor sounds just fine. Don't forget your fire extinguisher too.

*EDIT* Also, don't throw anything away until you have crystalline product. If something goes sideways and the DMT gets "stuck" somewhere we can usually wazzle ot out.

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 06 February 2022 - 05:21 AM.

[SlipperyJack]

Thanks Phineas,

 

Yeah, it looks like 3 cups of water was a little much.  I ended up with half a litre of liquid after the first cook.

I used 2 cups for the 2nd cook, and I will use 2 for the 3rd cook as well.

I will have over a litre of liquid when I am done.

I will then simmer it on the stove for a while to try and condense it down... good thing my partner likes how this stuff smells!

 

You're definitely on the right path Jack. The only thing I'd add is you're going to want to reduce the volume of the combined acid extract by boiling it on the stove for a while before moving on. Try and aim for 2 cups if you can get it that condensed without burning it.

Also make sure your sep funnel is big enough. 1L is usually plenty big for an extraction this size, 500mL might work.

Baking soda solution (about 100g/L at room temp) for skin, vinegar for floor sounds just fine. Don't forget your fire extinguisher too.

*EDIT* Also, don't throw anything away until you have crystalline product. If something goes sideways and the DMT gets "stuck" somewhere we can usually wazzle ot out.

[SlipperyJack]

So I cooked my 100g of MHRB in the slow cooker 3 times.

I ended up with about 2 litres of stock.

A little on the high end I think, but it is what it is... maybe next time I will use less water.

 

After coarse filtering the stock through a strainer, then fine filtering it through an old undershirt, I now have it on the stove simmering.

I am going to try to get it down to between 2 and 4 cups of stock.

I just plan on heating it up enough to see a bit of evap then letting it slowly simmer off... I am not in a rush, so I don't need to boil it.

Does that sound like a decent plan?

I don't want to apply too much heat... I seem to recall reading somewhere that too much heat (maybe in the smoking stage?) is not a good thing.

 

I have set aside the residual root bark in a jar in case I need to access it again.

Does it make sense to also keep the sludge that was in the bottom of the jar after the coarse filter?

[SlipperyJack]

Preparing for the next step...

 

I will have my lye in the next day or two.

 

I will look at separator funnels tonight.

 

Naptha... I am in Canada, and I have read that things can be challenging.

 

I can look at:

-Coleman camp fuel, which I believe has been recommended against due to additives, correct?

https://www.canadian...psugg_q=naphtha

 

-Zippo lighter fluid (the black container).

This is the SDS, but I am having trouble interpreting the composition:

https://certificatio...rth America.pdf

 

Any thoughts?

I suppose I can go buy a container of Zippo lighter fluid and do a residue test on some glass.

I'm guessing that may be my best bet?

[bezevo]

COLEMAN and other camp fuels are often formulated difrent in other countrys than america soo you need to check ingrediants , colman no good in america

 

ok in some other countries

[Phineas_Carmichael]

At this point the dmt is in aqueous acetate salt form, which has a boiling point higher than 100*C, so you absolutely cannot damage it while water is present. You can boil it hard for a while but keep an eye on it and drop to a simmer as you get close to your target volume. You don't want to get distracted & accidentally boil the pot dry.

Keep everything, on principal, just in case.

Coleman is usually no good nowadays, there's usually a non-hazardous (So not listed on the SDS) additive just to keep us from using it. That Zippo SDS looks good. It just says it has low-boiling and light hydrotreated petroleum distillates, which means they put some crude oil in a still, heated it up, and took the fraction that boiled off between 35*C and 130*C. That's exactly what we want but there might be some non-hazardous additives so a residue check is in order. If I recall correctly, FLASHINGROOSTER was in Canada as well but I can't find his thread, what did he end up using? Worst case scenario you can look for rubber cement thinner...

Ooh golly, I'm excited for you. I've full confidence that you'll get this right on the first try. Keep up the good work!

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 06 February 2022 - 04:25 PM.