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Ukraine, revisiting the cold war


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#161 TVCasualty

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Posted 17 April 2022 - 08:53 AM

So do you think it was a missile strike as Ukraine suggests, or that it was an internal accident as Russia claims?  

 

Either way it's a huge loss for Russia.  The Moskva was their Flagship for the Black Sea fleet, and one of only 3 active guided missile cruisers in the Russian Navy.

 

My money is on a missile strike, based on a couple of tells like satellite images showing the other Russian ships suddenly moving further away from the coast (odd way to prevent more "accidental fires"), or how Putin intends to escalate in "retaliation." Retaliate against Ukraine for an accidental fire?

 

I also suspect that the death toll was 100% regardless of how many miraculously-uninjured "rescued sailors" Russia parades in front of cameras. We're supposed to believe that everyone on board either died horribly or escaped without so much as a scratch? I'm skeptical.

 

The biggest rescue claim was that a Turkish ship picked up 50-54 survivors but Turkey stated that no Turkish ships were in the area at the time. It got hit at night when not much else was going on, so a lot of the sailors were probably asleep down below and almost certainly didn't make it out before the ship capsized if they survived the initial explosion(s).

 

 

FWIW, the image going around supposedly showing the ship "burning" in a satellite image is an image of the ship but it is not a thermal image of it burning. So it's not fake news but it's not an accurately-reported image, either (the sad part is that all the media outlets republishing the image leave the text on it that clearly states: "Sentinel-1 SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar)," so not IR/thermal). That image was originally published to show where the Moscow was at the time of the strike: https://www.navalnew...-as-she-burned/


Edited by TVCasualty, 17 April 2022 - 08:55 AM.


#162 Juthro

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Posted 17 April 2022 - 11:27 AM

It is also kind of telling that Russia has called for retaliation for the sinking.   It seems fairly logical to me that by saying someone needs to pay a price for their actions, that you are admitting that those were their actions.



#163 shiftingshadows

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Posted 17 April 2022 - 09:55 PM

It is also kind of telling that Russia has called for retaliation for the sinking.   It seems fairly logical to me that by saying someone needs to pay a price for their actions, that you are admitting that those were their actions.

  I think beginning the whole war shows that Putin, is no longer as rational as he used to be. He is now ruled by emotions such as pride, etc. He was of course also in the KGB at one time and has always had a nasty streak, although masked for some years.


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#164 TVCasualty

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Posted 22 April 2022 - 03:00 PM

It's getting weird in Russia (or wherever Russian oligarchs happen to live, depending).

 

I wonder if Putin needs all the money back that his corrupt oligarchs have amassed? The two who both just did the murder-suicide thing with their whole families (yeah, right) bring the current total to 6 Russian oligarchs that have been killed since January. 
 
https://www.business...-reports-2022-4
 
 
And this happened yesterday:

Seven die in fire at Russia defence institute – reports
https://www.theguard...fence-institute
 

 

This also happened yesterday:
 
Huge blaze sweeps through Russia’s biggest chemical plant on same day seven people are killed in fire at weapon research facility
https://www.dailymai...entre-fire.html
 

 

This apparently happened today (or is still happening, possibly):
 

Russian fire at Korolev Industrial Center: It is the third fire after the fire of the Aerospace Center and the Chemical Plant
https://www.wireserv...chemical-plant/
 
 
Is this trend indicative of internal sabotage, secret agents, incompetence, or a bit of each? Either way it's not good for Russia, and is probably making the surviving oligarchs really nervous.

 

 



#165 shiftingshadows

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Posted 13 May 2022 - 08:05 PM

...


Is this trend indicative of internal sabotage, secret agents, incompetence, or a bit of each? ...


What an interesting speculation.

 

If you have access to Netflix, "The Russian Revolution",
shows what an odd history the country has...
lots of B&W documentary footage;
and what an amazing cast of brutal people,
have plagued the country for decades.

 

From the costumes of the c czars,

to footage of Lenin,

and the huge size of many of the crowds,

to public executions, lt is an amazing saga.


Edited by shiftingshadows, 13 May 2022 - 08:15 PM.


#166 shiftingshadows

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Posted 13 May 2022 - 08:25 PM

And mean while. it seems this country,

is slipping back into thee dark ages.

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

 

 

'When all else fails
We can whip the horse's eyes'
 

Edited by shiftingshadows, 13 May 2022 - 08:36 PM.

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#167 Juthro

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Posted 14 May 2022 - 04:09 PM

 

And mean while. it seems this country,

is slipping back into thee dark ages.

 

You mean like the republicans trying to force women to carry unwanted pregnancy's full term, but denying them assistance with health care, nutritional needs, or safe housing?

 

A bunch of loud mouth hypocrites, the whole lot of them.  They need to worry about their own house, and keep their god damn noses out of other peoples lives.



#168 shiftingshadows

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Posted 14 May 2022 - 06:08 PM

 

 

And mean while. it seems this country,

is slipping back into thee dark ages.

 

You mean like the republicans trying to force women to carry unwanted pregnancy's full term, but denying them assistance with health care, nutritional needs, or safe housing?

 

A bunch of loud mouth hypocrites, the whole lot of them.  They need to worry about their own house, and keep their god damn noses out of other peoples lives.

 

 

Yes, mainly... & Trump still not laughed at always & everywhere ...continued militarization of police, facial recognition, health costs, obesity, diabetes, & opioid epidemics....sick, sick, sick....etc.



#169 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 12:09 PM

I forget if I've already posted a link to this guy's Twitter account, but it's worth a re-post because it's among the best places (most detailed but also relatively concise) to get the logistical, technical, and operational details that make it increasingly likely that Ukraine will not only decisively win this war but will drive Russia all the way back to it's pre-2014 border (Ukraine will get Crimea back): https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko

 

His recent posts about Ukraine's Uber-like targeting tech is amazing. The have developed software that the U.S. would do well to adopt that treats targets like a person needing a ride but instead of sending an Uber it picks the nearest heavy weapons (artillery, mortars, air strikes; it's all integrated there now) and directs them to the target (networked and widely-distributed guns, mortars, and MRLS's confuse counter-battery radars, among other advantages).

 

Another to follow is retired General Mark Hertling (fmr. Commander of U.S. Army in Europe, so he knows the scene well): https://twitter.com/MarkHertling


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#170 shiftingshadows

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 08:36 PM

Very interesting. Thanks for digging up these facts, and history. I followed the link to this:

 

I Commanded U.S. Army Europe. Here’s What I Saw in the Russian and Ukrainian Armies.

The two armies at war today couldn’t be more different.

https://www.thebulwa...rainian-armies/

 

and this

 

Minna Ålander 

@minna_alander
 
Since many people know nothing about Finland, jump on click bait headlines and retweet without checking facts, here a short overview of the things Russia has threatened Finland with so far & what their consequences are/would be:
 

https://twitter.com/minna_alander


Edited by shiftingshadows, 15 May 2022 - 08:44 PM.


#171 Juthro

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 12:18 PM

post-136504-0-86751200-1652721468.jpg

 

unnamed.jpg


Edited by Juthro, 16 May 2022 - 12:18 PM.

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#172 riseabovethought

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 02:55 PM

This was news to me.  I thought it was pretty interesting at minute 39.

If you look at vote in UN general assembly, 35 countries abstained from voting against Russia to condemn their actions.  Those 35 countries make up more than half the world's population, meaning that those people's representatives are not moved enough by this massacre, to even condemn it. 

   


Edited by riseabovethought, 17 May 2022 - 01:14 PM.


#173 Juthro

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 08:26 PM

Do you really think that that just because the the governing body in those countries are standing behind Russia that it means that all the people that live in those countries all have the same opinion?

 

I call bull shit.



#174 riseabovethought

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Posted 18 May 2022 - 02:15 PM

The video was from Real Time with Bill Maher. His Congresswoman guest mentioned that UN vote and how those 35 abstained votes actually represent more than half the world's population, just being an interesting note.  Most countries (~145 votes) did vote for condemning Russia, obviously.  Those that did not, stood out.  I just would have thought those 35 countries would have been smaller, less significant ones, but I would have been wrong.


Edited by riseabovethought, 18 May 2022 - 02:16 PM.


#175 Juthro

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Posted 18 May 2022 - 09:37 PM

How Bellingcat is using TikTok to investigate the war in Ukraine

 

[Direct Link]






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