Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Bleach vs Acetic Acid


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 BirdsArentReal

BirdsArentReal

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 43 posts

Posted 25 March 2022 - 02:21 PM

Hello Topians, has anyone had any success using acetic acid to clean up a grow space? How is it compared to bleach?

 

I've had some pretty bad luck with my grow these past 5 months or so and a buddy of mine suggested using acetic acid instead of bleach. Here's a little more info on my situation https://mycotopia.ne...n-using-spores/ . In short I've been growing for years now and the problem only shows up during my substrate colonization, not during grain inoculation/colonizing.

 

Additionally, any advice in general on dealing with a place that just may have too heavy of a trich spore load? Any war stories? Should I just burn my house down and move to mexico?


  • Coopdog likes this

#2 HrVanker

HrVanker

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 574 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 25 March 2022 - 04:07 PM

I'm a big fan of bleach, generally speaking. Vinegar is fine for windows and general clean-up. But if you want real close to sterile clean, you want something heavy-duty. This is why medical grade cleaning products don't bother with acetic acid. Bleach also evaporates and degrades upon exposure to oxygen and light, so residue shouldn't be a huge issue. It's also very water-soluble, so rinsing tubs/grow supplies should also be fine.

I haven't had to do a major grow space clean-up myself. But if I felt that I had a heavy spore-load, I would wipe everything down w/ bleach water and a bit of soap for its surfactant qualities. I would wipe methodically, trying to pick up contaminants and cover every surface, using paper towels. Be sure to change them out before they get too dirty; otherwise, you're just spreading dirt. I might even look into a UV light, but that can be risky and perhaps overkill.
  • Moonless likes this

#3 FunnyFarmer

FunnyFarmer

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 456 posts

Posted 25 March 2022 - 11:18 PM

Last year I was dealing with reoccurring trich contams that didn't seem to want to go away. I did two things, I took the advice of a fellow member and stopped trying to grow during the summer (apparently the AC likes to stir things up) and secondly I got a HEPA air cleaner for the grow room. Yea, I know it's a marketing ploy but so far I'm batting 4 and 0 with successes since restarting late last fall.


  • HrVanker and BirdsArentReal like this

#4 BirdsArentReal

BirdsArentReal

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 43 posts

Posted 26 March 2022 - 08:40 AM

I'm a big fan of bleach, generally speaking. Vinegar is fine for windows and general clean-up. But if you want real close to sterile clean, you want something heavy-duty. This is why medical grade cleaning products don't bother with acetic acid. Bleach also evaporates and degrades upon exposure to oxygen and light, so residue shouldn't be a huge issue. It's also very water-soluble, so rinsing tubs/grow supplies should also be fine.

I haven't had to do a major grow space clean-up myself. But if I felt that I had a heavy spore-load, I would wipe everything down w/ bleach water and a bit of soap for its surfactant qualities. I would wipe methodically, trying to pick up contaminants and cover every surface, using paper towels. Be sure to change them out before they get too dirty; otherwise, you're just spreading dirt. I might even look into a UV light, but that can be risky and perhaps overkill.

Thanks for the response. Just to be clear I do use bleach currently. I have actually done everything you've described. I've even wiped the darn ceiling down with bleach more than once LOL. Good point about using a little soap in there too.

 

My buddy spoke as if pure acetic acid was more effective at killing endo spores in comparison to bleach. Not sure how accurate that is. Guess that was more of my exact question.
 


  • HrVanker likes this

#5 BirdsArentReal

BirdsArentReal

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 43 posts

Posted 26 March 2022 - 09:19 AM

Last year I was dealing with reoccurring trich contams that didn't seem to want to go away. I did two things, I took the advice of a fellow member and stopped trying to grow during the summer (apparently the AC likes to stir things up) and secondly I got a HEPA air cleaner for the grow room. Yea, I know it's a marketing ploy but so far I'm batting 4 and 0 with successes since restarting late last fall.

Im almost positive I read those posts FunnyFarmer! I too purchased a rather expensive HEPA filter several months ago in hopes of reducing the spore load in my grow room. Doesnt really seem to have done anything but its honestly probably impossible to know for sure. Atleast it makes me feel slightly better and just acts as the only fan circulating air in the room.

 

Funny that you mention not growing in summer. I keep thinking maybe I shouldnt be growing in winter because it seems to be too hard to keep my room at a good temp. Like maybe the cooler temps are actually another factor in my grow slowing down so much. Before anyone says anything, I realize growing in cooler temps is completely OK, just feel like it can slow things down a bit.
 


  • DonShadow likes this

#6 HrVanker

HrVanker

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 574 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 26 March 2022 - 01:47 PM

Cooler temps will slow things down. So that could definitely be a consideration. If that's an issue for you in winter, I would suggest getting an electric radiant heater for your space during the cooler months. It shouldn't kick up any/much debris while maintaining temps a few degrees higher.

Whether bleach kills spores/endospores, I don't know. They are adapted to surviving life-threatening environments, so it's difficult to say. But, bleach is definitely more effective than vinegar at killing most things, hence why it makes a bad vinaigrette (lol).

If you have done all of that, it seems like contams may be coming through another vector. It's difficult to say what/where, since you've mostly outlined your materials and less of your process.
  • BirdsArentReal likes this

#7 FunnyFarmer

FunnyFarmer

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 456 posts

Posted 27 March 2022 - 09:07 AM

I'm using the seed starter mats with temp control for my grow area then place a fuzzy hand towel on top to moderate the heat. Its working pretty good so far, without the towel it seemed to dry the jar and tub bottoms out.

During the summer there is a much higher load of contams floating around than during the winter. During the winter the air is dryer which cuts down on available moisture to support contam growth.

Edited by FunnyFarmer, 27 March 2022 - 09:19 AM.


#8 Myc

Myc

    El Jardinero

  • App Administrator
  • 7,968 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 27 March 2022 - 10:19 AM

A really effective cleaning program involves the use of both a base (bleach) and an acid.

I prefer a cleaner called Star San.  It is a phosphoric acid cleaner which is food safe.


  • HrVanker, Juthro, BirdsArentReal and 1 other like this

#9 Juthro

Juthro

    dope smoking hillbilly

  • OG VIP
  • 10,079 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 27 March 2022 - 11:23 AM

Star San is really good stuff, a bottle of it will last you damn near forever. I've got a spray bottle of it sitting under my sink, and I use it all the time. 

 

If I remember the math correctly (I'm on my first cup of coffee for the day), it's 1/4tsp to 750ml of water.  This makes it easy to mix in a spray bottle. 


  • Myc and BirdsArentReal like this

#10 Myc

Myc

    El Jardinero

  • App Administrator
  • 7,968 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 27 March 2022 - 11:49 AM

A quick read of the link I provided describes (in general terms) the use of the product.

Self foaming, two minutes of surface contact (either liquid or foam), no-rinse,..........hard to beat. Wear gloves or wash hands thoroughly after contact with skin.  ;)

 

The wild pH swing between a base and an acid is very effective in destroying most all micro-organisms.

I would apply the base (bleach) and "rinse" or wipe-down surfaces. Then, apply the Star San with a spray bottle. After two minutes you're sanitized and ready to work.


  • Juthro and BirdsArentReal like this

#11 BirdsArentReal

BirdsArentReal

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 43 posts

Posted 27 March 2022 - 12:33 PM

A quick read of the link I provided describes (in general terms) the use of the product.

Self foaming, two minutes of surface contact (either liquid or foam), no-rinse,..........hard to beat. Wear gloves or wash hands thoroughly after contact with skin.  ;)

 

The wild pH swing between a base and an acid is very effective in destroying most all micro-organisms.

I would apply the base (bleach) and "rinse" or wipe-down surfaces. Then, apply the Star San with a spray bottle. After two minutes you're sanitized and ready to work.

This is excellent info. Exactly the kindof stuff I want to hear.



#12 BirdsArentReal

BirdsArentReal

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 43 posts

Posted 27 March 2022 - 12:38 PM

Anyone have experience spraying Star San all over the walls of an entire room? hahahha

 

Am I gunna walk in after cleaning to my walls melted down to the studs?



#13 Myc

Myc

    El Jardinero

  • App Administrator
  • 7,968 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 27 March 2022 - 12:55 PM

I've used it on counter tops with no problems. It is fantastic for deep-cleaning the kitchen sink.

You can also use the solution to remove sticky labels (and the adhesive residue) from glass by soaking.

 

If used at the proper dilution I doubt that it would attack house paint - but a test area would be a good idea first.

This cleaner must be treated with respect and the instructions for use should be followed carefully.

If you get the dilute solution on your skin (or contact the foam) - and fail to rinse - you'll notice a mild, itchy rash in the contact area after awhile.

 

But if you absolutely, positively, must kill everything in the room..............Lysol. Just don't use it on food handling surfaces. The stuff is wicked nasty.


  • BirdsArentReal likes this

#14 BirdsArentReal

BirdsArentReal

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 43 posts

Posted 27 March 2022 - 01:36 PM


But if you absolutely, positively, must kill everything in the room..............Lysol. Just don't use it on food handling surfaces. The stuff is wicked nasty.

Yeah including your mushrooms lol. I know, I've been down that road.


  • HrVanker likes this




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!