actually it's not feed, it's seed stock but i don't know if there is a differance. i sifted it several times and checked it over and over. but you have the experance. so i'll go out and get the rye. And toss the jars when there done pcing. Actually i may try and innoc one of them just to see. thanks for the advice hippie:eusa_doh:
grain spawn questions
Started By
tempest2003
, Mar 29 2005 11:34 AM
70 replies to this topic
#42
Antranik
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Mycophiliac
Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:02 AM
What does spawn mean? It seems like it's the same thing as substrate, which is the material prepared for fungi to grow on, but on a much larger scale? Some clarification needed... :eusa_doh:
#43
Guest_dial8_*
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:18 AM
Spawn is what ever medium you use to spread mycelium to other substrates. You can use grain as spawn or as a fruiting substrate. The same goes for brf cakes. My quart grain jars once fully colonized are spawned to a bulk substrate which is straw. Now, If I were to case the grain directly and fruit it then it would be referred to as substrate.
#44
dbzeroone
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:23 AM
In simplest terms, spawn is a starter.
In slightly more complex terms, it's a mid-stage between spores and bulk substrates.
Many things can be used as spawn, but it's most common to use grains (rye, rice, wheat, corn) and wild bird seed, aka WBS.
For example, let's say you're using rye as your spawn. You would get mycelium growing on the grain until it's covered with white fuzzy stuff.
Then you can take those grains and mix or scatter them in with a larger volume substrate, such as straw. That way you have thousands of points of mycelium working on colonizing the straw. More colonization points means faster colonization which reduces the chance of contaminants getting started.
In slightly more complex terms, it's a mid-stage between spores and bulk substrates.
Many things can be used as spawn, but it's most common to use grains (rye, rice, wheat, corn) and wild bird seed, aka WBS.
For example, let's say you're using rye as your spawn. You would get mycelium growing on the grain until it's covered with white fuzzy stuff.
Then you can take those grains and mix or scatter them in with a larger volume substrate, such as straw. That way you have thousands of points of mycelium working on colonizing the straw. More colonization points means faster colonization which reduces the chance of contaminants getting started.
#45
Dave_the_stoner
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Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:28 AM
Defenition:The aggregation of mycelium on a carrier material which is usually used to inoculate prepared substrates.
#46
Spark
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 01:46 PM
when the spawn is ready in jars can it be stored for later use?
i'm saying later as in 1-2 weeks maybe even longer if possible.
i'm saying later as in 1-2 weeks maybe even longer if possible.
#47
waylitjim
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 02:02 PM
Sure, you can store spawn for a few weeks.
Just keep the jars refrigerated untill you're ready.
(and covered so the don't dry out)
Just keep the jars refrigerated untill you're ready.
(and covered so the don't dry out)
#48
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Posted 03 June 2006 - 02:03 PM
thats fine, IMLE
you can put it in the fridge if you want to put them in a sort of stasis,
but if only 2 weeks that shouldnt be at all necessary.
you may get some invitros surprises when you get back,
but if kept away from light until ready to use you shouldnt have a problem
you generally want to use stuff asap so the colony is as vigourous as possible for spawning, but again, 2 wks is nothin to worry about.
if cakes you can dunk if needed
grain jars should always be given a little time
post-outer colonization of the jar visually,anyways,
so again i wouldnt think twice about it. just keep @ room temp away from light
have a good weekend,spark
you can put it in the fridge if you want to put them in a sort of stasis,
but if only 2 weeks that shouldnt be at all necessary.
you may get some invitros surprises when you get back,
but if kept away from light until ready to use you shouldnt have a problem
you generally want to use stuff asap so the colony is as vigourous as possible for spawning, but again, 2 wks is nothin to worry about.
if cakes you can dunk if needed
grain jars should always be given a little time
post-outer colonization of the jar visually,anyways,
so again i wouldnt think twice about it. just keep @ room temp away from light
have a good weekend,spark
#49
Milton Waddams
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Mycophage
Posted 03 June 2006 - 02:03 PM
I tried to save some sterilized spawn once, but with the holes in the lid the substrate naturally dried out. Plus as time goes on the chance of contams becomes greater. For home cultivation I would say pc and use as you need it.
#50
alpiner
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Posted 05 June 2006 - 01:18 PM
I have actually used spawn that was six months or so old that was kept in the fridge as well as spawn that was about two months old that was not kept cold, just harder to break up and "leap off" takes a few days
when using old spawn just go real heavy on the spawn, sometimes when using old spawn there is some sort of shroom piss in the jars this is no big deal
some species are touchier than others with this but generally this applies across the board in my experience
when using old spawn just go real heavy on the spawn, sometimes when using old spawn there is some sort of shroom piss in the jars this is no big deal
some species are touchier than others with this but generally this applies across the board in my experience
#51
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 09:36 AM
I was told that with LCs you need to spawn to grain and then spawn to compost. Well Im doin agar and it isnt a LC. So what I was wondering is can I skip the grain part and and spawn directly to poo? Lets say I can skip the grain step, How should I spawn the agar to the compost? Just mix it? Thanks -Heath
#52
siam_jim
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 09:51 AM
no...agar,
MOST likely 99% it will not work. you won't have the mass innoculation points like with grain, lets say we use grain...how many kernnels do you have in one jar? 500? 1000?
well it takes about 30 grain to match the colonized surface of an agar plate. so in thus more surface equal faster colonization. you want the mycelium to take over the bulk before the contams move in.
however you can spawn agar to grain as well
siam
MOST likely 99% it will not work. you won't have the mass innoculation points like with grain, lets say we use grain...how many kernnels do you have in one jar? 500? 1000?
well it takes about 30 grain to match the colonized surface of an agar plate. so in thus more surface equal faster colonization. you want the mycelium to take over the bulk before the contams move in.
however you can spawn agar to grain as well
siam
#53
srgtm1a
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yeah, yeah, you know.
Posted 12 July 2006 - 09:52 AM
No, you can't do it that way for agar....with agar, it has to first be done on grain. I'm sure people have tried it and possibly had some success, but I wouldn't suggest it.
People have tried LC's directly to poo/compost, but the ones I've seen have had limited success. You use spawned grain because it spreads out through the bulk sub...this way you can get quicker and much more even colonization.
skipping steps usually leads to failure.
People have tried LC's directly to poo/compost, but the ones I've seen have had limited success. You use spawned grain because it spreads out through the bulk sub...this way you can get quicker and much more even colonization.
skipping steps usually leads to failure.
#54
python
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:26 AM
using simply agar for a bulk substrate directly would make the colonization of the said sub take much much longer as mentioned above-----thus possibly allowing contaminants to get involved-----and it might not even work for ya
we use grain for ease and because it has tons of innoc points for bulk substrates----making the colonization of your desired medium much faster-----and when the sub is colonized, it protects itself fairly well from contams
we also like using grain as we can use it for grain to grain transfers---
we use grain for ease and because it has tons of innoc points for bulk substrates----making the colonization of your desired medium much faster-----and when the sub is colonized, it protects itself fairly well from contams
we also like using grain as we can use it for grain to grain transfers---
#55
sandman
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:58 AM
agar to colonize grain jars only takes 5-10 days.
#56
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 12:41 PM
Im using agar/peptone s/malt extract, in half pint jars. I suppose Ill have to go out and buy more jars for the grains. are we talking regular pf tek of choice? or does somone know anything that hawiians love to grown on. I got both organic brown rice, and wild rice on hand. Anyways sorry about the noob ass questions, but they were well answered. Thanks again. -Heath
#57
sandman
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 01:27 PM
When you say you have agar/peptone in half pint jars how deep is it? Just like 1/8" or so or most of the jar filled with solidified agar?
The ideal method for you to go from a wedge of agar is as follows...
Follow this tek for WBS in quart jars http://mycotopia.net...read.php?t=9358
In a GLOVEBOX transfer a wedge of your agar to each jar. Shake gentlyto get it in the middle of the jar.
Shake thoroughly 4 days later
Should be done by day 10
Spawn your wbs to poop/straw trays, bags, whatev
Dont forget to save a jar when you spawn to do 10 g2g qt jars!
The ideal method for you to go from a wedge of agar is as follows...
Follow this tek for WBS in quart jars http://mycotopia.net...read.php?t=9358
In a GLOVEBOX transfer a wedge of your agar to each jar. Shake gentlyto get it in the middle of the jar.
Shake thoroughly 4 days later
Should be done by day 10
Spawn your wbs to poop/straw trays, bags, whatev
Dont forget to save a jar when you spawn to do 10 g2g qt jars!
#58
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 04:12 PM
Actualluy UPS just pulled up I got Malt extract agar-wheat, and peptone from sporeworks(powderform). 40 grams of agar malt powder per liter of water and 1 gram per liter of the peptone. the jars a 1/2 pt. they with be fill 1/4 inch.
Ight man sry bout this stupid question, but wuts g2g mean pretty much please elaborate on the qoute above. I see that all the time but never knew wut it meant. I believe its like just making more colonized sub but Im not sure. Anyways thanks Sandman I appriciate your help more then you know. -HeathDont forget to save a jar when you spawn to do 10 g2g qt jars!
#59
siam_jim
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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:57 PM
g2g> grain to grain
the tranfer of some colonized grains from 1 jar to other uncolonized jars...thus cloning of sort.
siam
the tranfer of some colonized grains from 1 jar to other uncolonized jars...thus cloning of sort.
siam
