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Drying Fruits. Are Dehydrator dried better than Air Dried?


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#1 Paradoc

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Posted 03 April 2022 - 07:45 PM

Is a Food Dehydrator the preferred way to Dry Fruits?

Seriously didnt know in which other forum I could ask this question...but here goes
Almost exactly Two years ago I “found” mycotopia and the-good Folks here.
As a hobbyist Cannabis Gardner & biologist, I embraced all I learned from the other members answers to my questions. Weird as they were. Through questions and a few pics, I learned a great deal here...
Except, I goofed....
I NEVER ASKED ABOUT THE BEST WAY TO DRY THE FRUITS.

So, for 2 solid years, I’ve been getting 100% great results inoculating, sterilizing & fruiting But I simply take the picked fruits and lay them out in front of a fan in a wicker basket for a few days. They NEVER get *cracker dry. As I use a coffee grinder for Making capsules or a sharp knife for making tea, I *can accomplish this with air drying.

But today I decided I must be doing something different than the folks who’s dried fruits LOOK LIKE fruit.

SHOULD I GET A FOOD DEHYDRATOR?
And if so, is there anything to look for in getting one?

Once again...Thanx folks.
Be well

#2 HrVanker

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Posted 03 April 2022 - 07:58 PM

Check out this very informative paper: https://www.oregon.g...and Analogs.pdf

Air drying at room temp is best, if you can accomplish it quickly. But the autolysis is an issue the longer it takes.

Edited by HrVanker, 03 April 2022 - 10:25 PM.

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#3 torn2bits

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Posted 03 April 2022 - 08:46 PM

It all depends where you live, I'm Southern U
S.....get a dehydrator unless it's January
... February. Area. Specific.imho
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#4 HrVanker

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Posted 03 April 2022 - 10:26 PM

Fixed the link in my prior post
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#5 sandman

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Posted 03 April 2022 - 10:54 PM

You can not properly air dry mushrooms unless the humidity is less than 10% It's just not possible to get all of the moisture out with only a fan and wet air. Literally can not be done you will get janky limp noodles and probably kill someone with botulism.

 

Unless you finish it with desiccant the old school way but that is no better than a dehydrator at all.


Edited by sandman, 03 April 2022 - 10:57 PM.

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#6 Paradoc

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 07:02 AM

Wow...Thanx folks. hrVanker..That article is very interesting and gotta go with sandman on this one. I’m in a humidity prone climate. The “typical” Rh is about 60 to 70? % Outside it’s far more humid. Regularly. (My biggest challenge W/Cannabis) Co2 & R.H...
And sandman...you mention desiccant. I actually bought some a year ago but just didn’t have the heart to expose such large, delicate fruits to...”chemicals”...I know, I know. It’s just me...
I’ve never had a problem “storing” them. They just never seem to last that long...
(...as I’m doing a Dozen 1/2 pint jars at a time-USING 4 (10cc) Spore syringes over 12 to 14 jars....I’ve been told I could get away with using less...but aside from the ONE TIME I screwed up-Continually following the same steps is producing *predictable results)

FRom just scanning these reply’s, I’m definitely going to go Dehydrator for a FASTER and Possibly safer go of it.
Thanx for mentioning humidity. I do bake bread in this same environment but usually when the A/C is on to dE humidify things.

My MAIN concern/Question about dehydration is that it involves *heated* moving air- And whether the heat would degrade or effect the vital 4 compounds contained in the fruits being dried this way... Suggested *fruits drying temp is 50*C (~120F*) for a few hours.

I DO realize this issue is a rather basic and remedial one...but every single obstacle I’ve overcome in this project has been fixed by simply solidifying some basic concepts....and asking folks for some help.

Thanx everyone who helped here and those who may Get Help.

(
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#7 Paradoc

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 07:51 AM

Check out this very informative paper: https://www.oregon.g...and Analogs.pdf
Air drying at room temp is best, if you can accomplish it quickly. But the autolysis is an issue the longer it takes.


——————————-

Thanx so much for this link. In reading carefully through it, I’m happy to say I now have ALL my Questions about drying Answered.
In Section 3.2 of this document it states that Degradation of Psilocybin and Psilocin occur in excess of 150*C~
*In reading through the suggested operating temps of several Dehydrators, it looks like 50*C~ is the preferred drying temp.
The fact these researchers did Side by side comparisons of different techniques of drying & extracting is GOLD.
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#8 BirdsArentReal

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 08:57 AM

My two cents: I live in a very humid region. I've dried for years with just a box fan/screen/wood apparatus I made. I'll usually have them on the fan for like 2-3 days then I place them in a tub or small ice chest with the unscented damprid at the bottom (separated of course). Usually dont have any problems with that setup unless it rains for several days on end, and in that case I open up my oven and run it on the lowest temp for like 20 mins or so with the fruits on roasting pans.

 

So in your particular case maybe just throw your fruits in a container with whatever desiccant you have after a few days in front of the fan.

 

Or just buy a dehydrator if you have the money. Be warned though: if you start growing larger amounts your little dehydrator is going to end up collecting dust in a corner as they dont really hold that much fruit at a time.


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#9 HrVanker

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 12:52 PM



Thanx so much for this link. In reading carefully through it, I’m happy to say I now have ALL my Questions about drying Answered.
In Section 3.2 of this document it states that Degradation of Psilocybin and Psilocin occur in excess of 150*C~
*In reading through the suggested operating temps of several Dehydrators, it looks like 50*C~ is the preferred drying temp.
The fact these researchers did Side by side comparisons of different techniques of drying & extracting is GOLD.


That paper is definitely a great resource to have around. Found it fairly recently and have read through it a couple of times now. Such a treat to have some real science/research on mushrooms!

I live in an arid place, and even here it can take 12hrs @160F to dry some of the thick fruits I've gotten lately. A full load of average fruits takes ~5hrs at 120F. So it would seem that a dehydrator is definitely the best option for anyone with RH over 30%.

I've been trying to come up with an efficient room temp drying setup, but it's a tough nut to crack. Desiccant and a vacuum chamber being the easiest to throw together. Maybe I'll do some real life testing at some point, but the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze.
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#10 torn2bits

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 02:12 PM

I'd dry & store, after decrdrated to a crisp. Freeze em in double freezer bags t o be able to keep them safe.
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#11 bezevo

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 02:22 PM

It is very humid here in my region even a  bit in winter  . you might be able to start with fan in winter .

But winter or summer summer its in dehydrator low heat.

Then TO FINISH OFF -  in a air tight sealed tupaware /generic type container with a desiccant  pod.

You can find in  the laundry section of most  dollars stores .were they have  close pins , baskets ,laundry bags ect .

The desiccant chemicals never touch the fruit .

Then after a few days seal in jar or double freezer bag then  freeze with a desiccant pack  . i throw in a oxygen absorber pack to ...ha probably over kill .  ,

 

if your really  THRIFTY you can get a 4lb bag of  wal-mart unscented silica kitty litter beads/Crystals and put in a  tight weave bag Instead of the laundry pod desiccant POOF THRIFTY descant just dry out on  cookie sheet occasionally . TA-DA !

 

 

BEZ


Edited by bezevo, 04 April 2022 - 02:35 PM.

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#12 HrVanker

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 04:28 PM

I'd dry & store, after decrdrated to a crisp. Freeze em in double freezer bags t o be able to keep them safe.

The research in the paper I linked seems to point to room temp as best way to store. Cold and heat both [according to the paper] cause dephosphorylation of Psilocybin which then quickly oxidizes as psilocin. I've started vacuum sealing w/ desiccant and O2 absorbers, then storing in the dark in a cool-room temp spot.
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#13 BirdsArentReal

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 04:30 PM

I'd dry & store, after decrdrated to a crisp. Freeze em in double freezer bags t o be able to keep them safe.

 

 

It is very humid here in my region even a  bit in winter  . you might be able to start with fan in winter .

But winter or summer summer its in dehydrator low heat.

Then TO FINISH OFF -  in a air tight sealed tupaware /generic type container with a desiccant  pod.

You can find in  the laundry section of most  dollars stores .were they have  close pins , baskets ,laundry bags ect .

The desiccant chemicals never touch the fruit .

Then after a few days seal in jar or double freezer bag then  freeze with a desiccant pack  . i throw in a oxygen absorber pack to ...ha probably over kill .  ,

 

if your really  THRIFTY you can get a 4lb bag of  wal-mart unscented silica kitty litter beads/Crystals and put in a  tight weave bag Instead of the laundry pod desiccant POOF THRIFTY descant just dry out on  cookie sheet occasionally . TA-DA !

 

 

BEZ

I'm surprised that people are freezing. Id be concerned about moisture problems. Also seems unnecessary, why not not just put in a jar/tub in a coolish dark place? I guess if it works it works LOL


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#14 Baphom3t

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 05:28 PM

Crazy, all I do is air dry them in a dark dry closet for roughly 4 days, sometimes a little longer, but then I put the mush in a ziplock bag along with a few desiccant packets, shove them in a tupperware container with a lid, toss them back into the exact same closet and grab when wanted or needed.
I don't live in a dry arid area, I live in the Ohio valley region and it gets pretty humid here in the summer.

I've done it this way for over 10 years. I have fruits well over a year old that's been kept this same way and I have never had a noticeable loss in potency.
I keep shit as simple as possible.
What ever works for you is the way to go.


Edited by Baphom3t, 04 April 2022 - 05:37 PM.

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#15 HrVanker

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 05:54 PM

I believe that the idea behind freezing, is that chemical reactions tend to happen more slowly at lower temps. So in theory, degredation should occur more slowly. I'm not chemist, but the researchers in the paper above show that psilocybin degredation increases slightly at colder temps (both in fresh and powdered dry fruits). Though I'm not sure why that would occur, and the difference is more pronounced in fresh fruits.

I know the Pennsyltucky region quite well, and I have no idea how yuns pull off air drying in a closet. Are you able to get them cracker dry? In winter it would make more sense, but those summers, especially if you're down in the valleys, can be close to FL summers. I've experienced many sudden afternoon thunderstorms due to the humidity!

If mushrooms are dried and well sealed, condensation shouldn't be an issue when freezing. Just let them come back to room temp before opening.
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#16 sandman

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 06:45 PM

My two cents: I live in a very humid region. I've dried for years with just a box fan/screen/wood apparatus I made. I'll usually have them on the fan for like 2-3 days then I place them in a tub or small ice chest with the unscented damprid at the bottom (separated of course). Usually dont have any problems with that setup unless it rains for several days on end, and in that case I open up my oven and run it on the lowest temp for like 20 mins or so with the fruits on roasting pans.

 

So in your particular case maybe just throw your fruits in a container with whatever desiccant you have after a few days in front of the fan.

 

Or just buy a dehydrator if you have the money. Be warned though: if you start growing larger amounts your little dehydrator is going to end up collecting dust in a corner as they dont really hold that much fruit at a time.

Yea that's the old school way pretty much every used up till about 10-15 years ago. It does work fine that's how I did it for a long long time too. Nowadays I like to get my stuff dry as fast as possible, 12-16 hours in my custom dehydrator running at 155f.


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#17 BirdsArentReal

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Posted 04 April 2022 - 06:57 PM

I understand the actual reason for freezing. I just know that my crappy 15yo fridge would in no way actually keep things dry enough for it to be useful. Plus even if it did keep it dry, as soon as I'd take it out of the fridge the heat/humidity here would instantly cause condensation on the bag. Guess that I forget people live in different climates than I do or have decent functioning fridges.


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#18 bezevo

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Posted 05 April 2022 - 11:06 AM

i guess you missed the part were folks saying to freeze or refrigerate....   were sealing the cracker dry  fruit in...."  AIRTIGHT ".... bags, jars or plastic containers..... " with a Desiccant  Pack" .... to avoid condensation ? i hope this Helps you understand ?

i also include  an oxygen obsorber pack but no clue if it helps ?

i am no expert these are just my opinions  .

 

results  my very heh

 

oh i liked the vacuum sealed with desiccant pack ...that's good idea

 

 

If mushrooms are dried and well sealed, condensation shouldn't be an issue when freezing. Just let them come back to room temp before opening.

 

 

I'm surprised that people are freezing. Id be concerned about moisture problems. Also seems unnecessary, why not not just put in a jar/tub in a coolish dark place? I guess if it works it works LOL

 

 

I understand the actual reason for freezing. I just know that my crappy 15yo fridge would in no way actually keep things dry enough for it to be useful. Plus even if it did keep it dry, as soon as I'd take it out of the fridge the heat/humidity here would instantly cause condensation on the bag. Guess that I forget people live in different climates than I do or have decent functioning fridges.


Edited by bezevo, 05 April 2022 - 11:15 AM.

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#19 BirdsArentReal

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Posted 05 April 2022 - 11:54 AM

 

i guess you missed the part were folks saying to freeze or refrigerate....   were sealing the cracker dry  fruit in...."  AIRTIGHT ".... bags, jars or plastic containers..... " with a Desiccant  Pack" .... to avoid condensation ? i hope this Helps you understand ?

i also include  an oxygen obsorber pack but no clue if it helps ?

i am no expert these are just my opinions  .

 

results  my very heh

 

oh i liked the vacuum sealed with desiccant pack ...that's good idea

 

NAh I get It LOL like I said I just forget sometimes that other people dont live in a 150 yo house in a semi-tropical climate where things are never dry.


Edited by BirdsArentReal, 05 April 2022 - 11:55 AM.


#20 bezevo

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Posted 06 April 2022 - 02:26 PM

ok you get it but for those that don't get it , even in a semi tropical climate  .

 

so in my climate in summer it averages 90f  and 80% to 90% humidity occasionally as hot as 110f ...winter dry  temps in the teens  occasionally as  low as - 20 f . fun ..ha

.again thats what the desiccant in the finish sealed drying chamber is for to get them cracker dry , then in the sealed package so it stays cracker dry even in a very moist humid area / house . it  prevents condensation /moisture  in the sealed package ....it keeps it dry no matter how humid  it is  ?

 

 

Desiccant
What Does Desiccant Mean?

A desiccant is a substance or chemical that absorbs or attracts moisture from the air, causing a state of dryness (desiccation) in its vicinity. This chemical used to attract and remove moisture from air or gas and keep the products dry which, in turn, inhibits the corrosion process.

These chemicals are used in product containers during shipping to protect against moisture damage. Descants also prevent condensation of moisture between window panes. Desiccants are available in various forms and are widely used in many industries, such as:

  • Packing
  • Electronics
  • Manufacturing

i use silica gel packs

 


Edited by bezevo, 06 April 2022 - 02:35 PM.

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