
ACRB Extraction
#1
Posted 22 September 2022 - 12:26 PM
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#2
Posted 26 September 2022 - 01:28 AM
Having never worked with ACRB I'm afraid I can't provide any specifics. That said, from what I've read you are absolutely correct; it needs an A/B extraction protocol with a thorough defat during the acid phase.
Defats are best accomplished with a broad-spectrum non-polar solvent that pulls all kinds of stuff. Simple cyclic molecules like xylene or toluene are generally used, with d-limonene being a "green" alternative or a substitute in places where the high VOC solvents are restricted by law. It is said that cooking oil can be used in a pinch but I'm not crazy about that idea.
At least 5 defats of the reduced acidic extract will probably be required. Keep going until no color comes over in the defat solvent. Then evap maybe 30mL of the last pull & check for residue. Rinse & repeat until you are confident that your acidic extract is as clean as you can get it.
As far as extraction goes, for ACRB I would keep the heat low in the acidic phase and extend the time. Just spit-balling, but like 2-4 hours on low in a ceramic slow-cooker (~190°F-200°F) per pull vs 30min at a simmer on the stove (~212°F) might be better. At higher temperatures more gunk comes out, and Acacia spp. are said to have a lot more gunk than MHRB.
ACRB or Phalaris are the rare cases where I might select a very specific targeted non-polar solvent for the basic pulls as well. Pulling with heptane (brand-name Bestine) instead of naphtha at cool room temperature will be expensive, but it will discourage any remaining gunk from coming over.
Freeze precipitation will almost certainly be necessary for white crystalline product right off the throw. Recrystallization is always an option to purify yellow product. One could (and IMO should!) continue to extract the basic phase with progressively less selective non-polar solvents and evap to yield various psychoactive goos and waxes of interesting colors after getting the crystals. Recrystallization "waste" falls into this category as well.
I know you are an accomplished extraction chemist Bird, but I feel compelled to include a note about safety for any newbies who might read this thread years from now...
1) Gloves & goggles, a fire extinguisher, and a dedicated lab space are absolute must-haves. The kitchen is fine for heating water-based liquids, but don't do the reactions or solvent-work on your kitchen table where the cat can knock stuff over!
2)Lab-grade glassware & tools are a would-be-nice, but Mason jars and/or thick HDPE (high-density polyethylene) will work for 1 extraction, just don't re-use them or let stuff sit in them for months under the sink.
3) Always check the SDS for any consumer grade solvents or reagents before you buy them.
4) Save everything until the end. The target molecule is in there somewhere; we can't wazzle it out if it was in the defat solvent we threw out 3 days ago...
5) Proper disposal of material (especially non-polar solvents) is ecologically responsible. Returning the spent xylene to the can with a bit of paint and dropping it off at a haz-mat center will ensure that we give our children a slightly less destroyed planet.
Sorry for the delay & for writing a book! Did I touch on most of the things you had questions about? I check in every day and generally answer more specific questions much faster. Please reach out if you have any more questions or if my writing above was unclear in any way. Also, I'm always available via PM if you (or anyone) has a question that you're not comfortable asking on the open boards.
I hate to give you homework again, but I'd love to see what you end up doing with your ACRB. I haven't seen very many extraction write-ups that use it...
Edited by Sidestreet, 01 October 2022 - 03:59 PM.
Requested by Phin :)
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#3
Posted 26 September 2022 - 12:53 PM
Thanks for the "book" I really appreciate your thorough information and instructions. You've certainly given me enough "homework" to get a good start on the extraction. I'll get started on the vinegar washes tonight then hopefully get into the defatting within the next few days. I've always done my vinegar washes with MHRB in the slow cooker so I'll probably just stick to that method here as well. I'll be checking in and will probably have a whole host of questions for you guys along the way. With your help I've processed many very successful (imo) extractions that I wouldn't have been able to pull off without you guys. I'd just like to express my gratitude to you guys once again. The fact that you take the time out of your day to share your knowledge with me or us (all for free I might add) means so much. I could go on and on but I'll stop myself from doing so here.
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#4
Posted 27 September 2022 - 11:20 AM
A question for you Phineas: I've got quite the selection of solvents but no heptane (or Bestine.) I did a quick Google search and it appears that none of the big box stores near me carry it. So I guess I actually have a few questions:1.Is there some other place that might carry it besides the Wal-Marts and Home Depots? 2.Is there a suitable replacement I could use instead? 3. It seems Amazon carries it, would it be stupid to order it online? I.E. getting red flagged or put on a list or something? Although I don't care too much about those things, I'm pretty sure I'm already on every list. As long as it's not illegal where I live (in which case Amazon wouldn't ship it to me anyway) I'd probably do that as a last resort. I'd prefer to buy it with cash in person but like I said, that's a preference. I'll resort to other things if necessary lol.
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#5
Posted 27 September 2022 - 08:46 PM
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#6
Posted 27 September 2022 - 11:06 PM
On most slow cookers (looking at you, Cröck-Pôt) the low setting puts the heating element at 200°F while high puts it at 300°F. Usually the high setting will boil water eventually, but what's in the cooking vessel with the water will affect how long it takes to come to a simmer. I've cooked overnight chili on high that was simmering after 4 hours and I've cooked 48-hour beans that never did. It's a coin-flip on high, but low will almost never simmer under normal conditions.
As far as "fuckups" go, this one is pretty mild lol. You're fine. I suspect you are correct, that the 1st hot extraction pulled more colored impurities than the 2nd & 3rd. You ever make a pot of coffee but don't want to wait for the whole pot to brew so you stick your mug under 1st & get a cup that's way way stronger than the rest of the pot? I think this is a similar phenomenon, but with drugs instead of coffee.
As for Bestine, it's just the brand name of a rubber cement thinner that is 100% heptane. Your best bet for sourcing it locally is actually arts & crafts stores (as much as I hate Høbby Löbby I'll darken their doorstep only for heptane and only if the local Michelle's doesnt carry it) or hobby shops. There's usually a few small cans in the collage/decoupage section or near the model kits. Wherever you can find rubber cement it should be nearby. It's far-and-away the most expensive common solvent though, which is why it's usually used just for re-Xing. If you wanted to get real fancy you could distill heptane (and a bunch of other interesting solvents) out of naphtha, but fractional distillation is more work than we Clandestine Chemists usually like to do...
I used to preach cash & carry purchases for all this stuff or don't use it, but have relaxed that policy over time. I think law enforcement has better things to do than police my Amazon carts. That said, if they were actively looking at me for anything I have no doubt they could get that information, but having made some pretty sketchy purchases from 3rd party sellers I'm fairly confident nothing there sets off an alarm at the local precinct.
Oh crap, Ive written another book! I'll try harder to be more concise in the future

Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 28 September 2022 - 01:13 AM.
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#7
Posted 28 September 2022 - 04:54 PM
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#8
Posted 28 September 2022 - 08:02 PM
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#9
Posted 28 September 2022 - 11:12 PM
1) Right next to each other on the ring to form ortho-xylene (or 1,2-dimethylbenzene)
2) With 1 ring member between them to form meta-xylene (or 1,3-dimethylbenzene)
3) Directly across the ring from each other to form para-xylene (or 1,4-dimethylbenzene)
4) Both on the same ring member (as an ethyl chain) to form ethylbenzene
Commercial grade xylene is always a mixture of the 1st 3 because their chemical properties are virtually identical as far as painters & varnish makers are concerned. The production method for commercial-grade xylene ensures that there will always be a small amount of ethylbenzene & cumene present, nothing to worry about. And no reason to buy pure lab-grade para-xylene at 10x the price for a defat solvent in the clandestine lab.
I checked the SDS for Sunnyside xylol, it's 60-100% xylene isomers, 10-30% ethylbenzene, and 0.1-1% cumene. Because you aren't evaporating the defat solvent the additional molecules might actually work in your favor, producing a more broadly targeting solvent blend. I think you're golden.
Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 29 September 2022 - 02:11 AM.
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#10
Posted 29 September 2022 - 12:05 AM
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#11
Posted 29 September 2022 - 12:13 AM
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#12
Posted 29 September 2022 - 12:21 AM
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#13
Posted 29 September 2022 - 01:46 AM
Heated defats will accomplish the goal in fewer pulls, but one has to balance speed & efficiency with safety & detection. Xylene doesn't boil until around 140°C, so you can't boil it out of an aqueous solution, but hot xylene *STINKS* and the vapors are probably pretty carcinogenic, especially ethylbenzene. If you have a well-ventilated work space (ideally one that ventilates up through a chimney or something, not at ground level) & are far enough away from nosy neighbors who might call law enforcement because they "smell chemicals," you can go ahead and run heated defats, probably no hotter than 140°F. Running them at room temp is safer, but it'll take more pulls to get the acidic extract totally clean.
That's a mighty fine looking pile of botanicals you've got there! Makes me want to drag my gear out of the attic, for sure. But with only 1100Sqft & 5 cats I unfortunately no longer have a safe dedicated lab space. That just means I have to live vicariously through you and all the other excellent Clandestine Chemists here on Topia! Keep up the good work!
Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 29 September 2022 - 01:57 AM.
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#14
Posted 29 September 2022 - 02:21 AM
I checked the SDS for Sunnyside xylol, it's 60-100% xylene isomers, 10-30% ethylbenzene, and 0.1-1% cumene. Because you aren't evaporating the defat solvent the additional molecules might actually work in your favor, producing a more broadly targeting solvent blend. I think you're golden.
In re-reading I realized I should have checked the SDS for Klean-Strip as well...
The SDS for Klean-strip is exactly the same. 60-100% xylene, 10-30% ethylbenzene, and 0.1-1% cumene. The only potential difference is potential "non-hazardous" additives in the various Ronsonol products that cam cause problems. Because you're not evaporating it I'm 98% confident you're good to go with the sunnyside.
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#15
Posted 09 October 2022 - 08:26 PM
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#16
Posted 09 October 2022 - 11:21 PM
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#18
Posted 11 October 2022 - 01:27 AM
I was going to ask about emulsions on the defat, but it looks like you've been successfuly breaking them.
What's your plan for basification? Adding crystalline lye with stirring in an ice bath or using a concentrated NaOH solution?
Again, I'm loving seeing this extraction in real-time! Keep up the good work!
#19
Posted 11 October 2022 - 06:05 PM
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#20
Posted 12 October 2022 - 12:47 AM
My buddy Freddie always based with a solution so that sounds like a good plan to me. 40g/L of will get you a pH 14 NaOH solution, some folks go as high as 60g/L but any more than that is just a waste of lye really.
Getting on to the home stretch now, keep up the excellent work!
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