33 replies to this topic

[Coopdog]

I got these cuttings in a very interesting gift package recently. These are 3 cuttings from a 20+ year old Coca plant. I have heard of a couple of people having these over the years, but never in my life laid eyes on one. My friend said they are indestructible and that once they root they will take off like gangbusters and in 6 months they will grow bark and begin to grow into a bush. I hope this thread is not too early, and that I can grow these into something big enough to eventually share with a few friends. 

 

I was so happy and excited to get these! True hen's teeth kinda rarity in my world anyhow. Hopefully soon I will have 3 decent little bushes growing. They got here wilted and not pretty, but after I made a new cut, they obviously sucked up some water. Still not too pert, but a damn sight better than the day I got them about 5-6 days ago. 

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[Skywatcher]

Those look pretty well plumped again Coop. I am looking forward to seeing the progress as they take off for you.

[FLASHINGROOSTER]

Yeah unheard of for me. Far out 

 

Is that like a chew on the leaf sort of activity or would a fella do one of them extractions?

[Seeker2be]

This great.  I have been looking for cuttings.  Glad you have good fortune!

[Coopdog]

Flashing Rooster, It can indeed be chewed like tobacco, and is twice as effective if you add some basic material. The people where it grows make a small lump of wood ash and honey and wrap it in the leaves and leave it in their cheek. Some drink it in tea as well. It can also be extracted with a simple a/b extraction. 

 

Seeker2be, I have been coveting starts since I was a young guy. A friend had a bush he always claimed to be coca, but I was always a bit skeptical back then. Now I know it was not coca because of the harsh Ohio winters and it looked nothing like the pics I found researching this when I got them. I haven't been that excited over getting cuts since I got the Butterscotch Hawaiian G13 Hashplant back in the day lol. 

 

My friend that gave them to me claims they are indestructible once they get going, and said he is virtually certain that all 3 will take off just fine. Thrives on neglect and prefers indoors in a window here, but that he has several outside that wintered over for quite a few years until the bad cold spell we had last year. 

 

I hope I can get these things to thrive. l hesitated to start a thread until I got new growth, but friend said they absolutely WILL grow. 

[JanSteen]

Hmmm dude, I would seriously look up erythroxylum coca and compare the images with what you have in that cup there.

I have a couple coca plants, and wrote about them extensively on this forum, and they don't look anything like the succulents/orchids in your picture.

 

I'm sceptical in the first place because outside of scientific literature, there seem to be just a hand full of succesful coca cuttings. I gave it close to 200 tries and I had one succeed.

 

Coca doesn't survive Ohio winters. Coca is very much a sensitive plant and it doesn't survive frost at all. Maybe I'm thinking the wrong thing here, but I'm 100% sure that the cuttings in the picture are not erythroxylum coca.

[Seeker2be]

yeah I got seeds from a friend in Hawaii and if not completely fresh they dont germinate either.

[Coopdog]

I did research them as soon as I got them in the water. These were wilted and abused a bit on the way here. If the leaves are opened up flat they are a match and look just the same. I was surprised that these came back to this extent, and success has not been achieved as of yet. When I saw the bark on the classic plants in the first few pics I compared, I had the same reaction. Then I looked a little closer and the top 6-8 inches of the mountain grown ones had green shoots at the end of the branch. Before I posted, I was pretty darn sure they matched. I can see why you would think that from the pics though indeed. 

 

As to the winters, I am not in Ohio, but the temperate part of WA state. Where my friend lives is a rain forest that rarely ever gets a hard freeze. He also didn't think they survived the winters, However, they came back in the spring for a while. He grows his indoors in a big window, and they do just fine. As to not being able to get cuttings from it, well that remains to be seen. I'll have a better idea when they start putting out some new growth, providing they get that far. 

 

Thank you for that comment though, you made me go dig into it again. I hope you are wrong and surely not arguing. The only reason I have faith is that the guy they came from is indeed one freaky knowledgeable and no bullshit kind of guy. The leaf comparison and other things he said about the mature plants gives me faith. Hopefully it is not misplaced. We shall see in time.

[Seeker2be]

always good to self examine.  

[JanSteen]

One key identification factor for coca are the two stripes on the bottom side of every leaf.

They should run vertically (from base to tip) along the center rib of the leaf, on both sides of that rib. Both novo and coca varieties have this rib. Coca is somewhat rounder, novo is more lance-headed/pointy in leaf shape.

 

The leaves on your picture look somewhat waxy, whereas my own coca plants have pretty dull leaves.

 

When growing rapidly, I notice that there's usually about an inch of green growth and directly below it's woody. The new shoots are usually as thick as the lead inside a pencil, give or take 3mm in width. Could be the picture effect though, I don't know if you used a macro lens.

 

So that gives me the idea that none of the ID's traits have been met in this case.

Could very well be that it's some other kind of alkaloid producing plant, but E. coca or E. coca var novo, doesn't seem to be what this is.

[Coopdog]

Well Jansteen, I appreciate the heads up. I told the guy that gave them to me, and he said that is what they were said to be when he got the potted bush years ago. I will go ahead and try to get them going and then use an ID app to see what I come up with. I concur that they do not have those stripes next to the rib on the bottom. I just used my phone and it takes poor pics usually, but this one is pretty true to life. Thank you again. I will leave this up until you see this post, and I will take it down. I'll also go look up those stripes so I have an idea what to look for. Now I am wondering just what in the hell they actually are, and what kind of alkaloids they produce if not coca lol. 

 

To anyone else that perused this thread, I apologize if I am wrong. My friend that gifted them has never been wrong about anything in the fifteen years I have known him. Certainly was not trying to mislead anyone and I hope ya'll know that. Dammit man, I was psyched about this more than anything I have had in a long time. lol

Edited by Coopdog, 30 November 2022 - 02:25 AM.

[JanSteen]

Glad to help! I still hope I'm just terribly wrong about this, or that it might be some kind of ipadu variety or something. There are a bunch of plants in that family that produce the same alkaloid, some of which are six times as potent as E. coca. So I'm still hoping you own one of those!

[Coopdog]

Thank you for that info as well. Now I need to look into that bit of information. Wouldn't THAT be nice! Looks like I no longer have the option to delete this thread, so if any helpful mods are around please feel free to do so. If there is one thing I do not like, it is disinformation. Thank you!

[Ferretious]

Great score! Envious!

[Coopdog]

My friend was mortified lol. He said he now has to tell several people he was wrong lol, (he is NEVER wrong lol) Now I need to find out just what they are. 

[Skywatcher]

Thank you for that info as well. Now I need to look into that bit of information. Wouldn't THAT be nice! Looks like I no longer have the option to delete this thread, so if any helpful mods are around please feel free to do so. If there is one thing I do not like, it is disinformation. Thank you!

I feel like this thread contains alot of valuable information. Occasional mis-identification happens, and it is no fault of yours Coop. I would prefer to leave this for any additional information you may discover. I am still wanting to know what this is.  I also feel this thread is a good example for how to handle any similar situation, with further research and an open mind.

Thank you !
 

[Coopdog]

Thank you for the input Skywatcher. That is ok with me. I still retain a small amount of hope that it is some sort of coca producing plant, just from my friends experience in testing it in tea and as a chew in his cheek. I will grow it out and do my best to ID it. This is a great place to have help doing so as well. 

[Juthro]

Good luck on your grow Coop, and I hope you remember to share back with us when you nail down what you've got there.

[Coopdog]

Juthro, that WAS the plan! :) My friend said thank you to Jansteen as well for correcting him too. He said tonight he was charged a pretty penny for that potted bush when he got it, and like me, trusted the guy he got it from. I was so looking to sharing this out with anyone I could just for the novelty value more than anything. 

[Seeker2be]

great discussion full of reasoning ,knowledge and humility.

Edited by Seeker2be, 02 December 2022 - 10:20 AM.