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Growing your own Salvia Divinorum Seeds ??


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#1 llamabox

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 06:59 AM

Taken from World eyes sanctuary,but a complete version can be found here. http://members.cox.net/sageseeds/
<center> Growing your OWN Salvia Divinorum Seeds:
A Simple Step by Step Illustrated Guide.
Project begun September 25th, 2006
Last Updated: October 8th, 2006
<hr color="green" size="3" width="100%"> Preamble: Why this Page?
</center> Do you grow Salvia Divinorum? Have you noticed that every fall your plants want to bloom? I have noticed that the prevailing attitude towards Salvia Divinorum is that it does not set viable seeds. It is mostly to combat this attitude that I have created this web page. Research and experimentation from 1980 through 2006 have proven Salvia Divinorum to be self fertile. Salvia Will readily set seeds if you give her a Chance. You just need to know the signposts on the road to seeds: what to look for.
Among the Goals on this page are:
  • To encourage you to Hand Pollinate your Salvia Divinorum flowers this season.
  • To attempt to collect statistics on what percentage of pollinated flowers develop into seed bearing calyces and perhaps more accurate germination statistics.
  • To encourage you to plant those seeds and increase the genetic diversity of this species.
  • To provide a ready source of small quantities of the small Ziploc bags ideally suited for seed capture. I bought 1000 of them so you did not have to.
All the information on this page was kindly contributed (through emails) by Mr. Daniel Siebert of the Salvia Divinorum Research and Information Center, or was quoted from the single web page I am citing from, or was directly observed and photographed by me. His help was invaluable to me through the fall and winter of 2005 / 2006. I wish to help all of you in the same way he was of help to me.
Any quotation used by me is either from an e-mail, or from THIS research paper, accepted in 1987, that is hosted on the Salvia Divinorum Research and Information Center Web Site.
Equipment you will need to Grow your own Seeds:
  • Salvia Divinorum plants that are 18 inches or taller (that are blooming or showing signs of blooming.)
  • Eyes
  • Hands
  • Patience
  • A modicum of eye/hand coordination
  • A few Minutes of Time each day
    Optional Equipment (highly recommended):
  • Small {1 inch to 1/2 inch square} Ziploc bags (to insure seed capture)
  • A magnifying glass
  • And a camera: so you can show off your success.
<hr color="green" size="3" width="75%"> <center>Part One: Considerations about Blooming.
</center>
You will notice that the first thing on the list of Equipment that you will need is "Salvia Divinorum plants that are 18 inches or taller (that are blooming or showing signs of blooming.)" I cannot stress enough the importance of having flowers on your plant in order to get seeds from it. ;-)
MOST Salvia Plants in the Wild bloom when the days get shorter. My Salvia Divinorum garden shows signs every October that it is going to bloom.
"During our conversations Don Alejandro told us that the flowers produced seed that could be planted to grow the Salvia."
"From herbarium sheets of Oaxacan collections, we noted that flowering specimens were collected only between late August and March, a time of short days (Valdés 1983). In Mexico City (which is not far north of the collection localities), daylength reaches a maximum of 13h in June and decreases to about 12 h in October (Salisbury and Ross 1978). Although most plants affected by daylength need exposure to a certain critical dark period to begin the development of flower buds, some need a tapered decrease in daylength to induce flowering (Bickford and Dunn 1973)."
"Outdoor and greenhouse experiments
About 50 plants were cultivated in an Ann Arbor garden during summers. They were put in a greenhouse (Matthaei Botanical Gardens) in September 1980 and placed on 28 in tall 6 ft by 17ft benches. Minimum greenhouse temperature was 10°C. Maximum temperature (10-30°C) depended on outside conditions.
Experimental results
Buds were observed in late October. Flowering began on 10 Nov and continued until early January 1981. All specimens bloomed. Similar results occurred during 1981 and 1982."
"Of 14 hand-pollinated flowers (later protected by glassine envelopes), four set seed, which was collected on 16 Dec 1980."
If your Plants get Natural Light they will attempt to Bloom for you each Fall UNLESS they are Exposed to TOO Much Man Made Lighting during the Night. Check to make sure they are not under the Streetlight, or next to the Late Night Tennis Courts.
"Growth chamber experiments
Sherer Environmental Chambers models CEL-512-37 and CEL-34-14 were freshly outfitted with incandescent (93W) and cool white VHO fluorescent bulbs. Eleven plants from each of the three sources were divided between the two chambers. Plant-top light-intensity varied from 2,800-3,300 ft-c, depending on plant height and the chamber involved. Controls were set for maximum relative humidity (measurements varied between 50 and 100%). Temperature was set at 22°C day (16H) and 17°C night (8 H). Plants were grown under these conditions for 12 wk. Beginning 24 Jan 1980, daylength was decreased from 16 to 11 h over a 4 wk period.
Experimental results
Buds were noted on 4 Apr 1980; flowering branches were collected on 20 Apr 1980 (Valdés s.n., 22 Oct 1980, MICH). All plants flowered at a height less than 1.0 m; the flowers had a purplish calyx and white corolla (flower). Repeating the experiments with an abrupt change from 16 h to 11 h days indicated tapered decreases in daylength were not necessary to induce flowering. Increasing daylength to over 12 h caused plant to revert to vegetative growth and abort flowers (Valdés s.n., 15 June 1981, MICH). Later a malfunctioning timer switch indicated that less than a week of 24h days induced this reversion, even if conditions were returned to short (11h) days."
This Means that if you are growing Salvia Divinorum in a basement, or somewhere where it gets NO Natural light: you can Induce Flowering simply by setting your daylight photoperiod down to 11 hours of Daylight. There is no need to taper the daylight hours down to 11 hours slowly: it can be done overnight.
Summary: IF the plants get a sufficiently long period of uninterrupted (and DARK) darkness each night they will bloom for you. It's their instincts at work. This plant will follow it's instincts to bloom and set viable seeds.
<hr color="green" size="3" width="75%">
<center>Part Two: Hand Pollination and Seed Harvesting.
Signposts on the road: What to Look for.
</center>
The first sign that your plants are going to bloom is the appearance of the buds that will eventually become the flowering stalks.
Posted Image
The second sign on the road to seeds is the lengthening of the flowering stalks.
Posted Image
The third sign on the road to seeds is the further lengthening of the flowering stalks and Flower Buds Appear.
Posted Image
The fourth sign on the road to seeds is the Flower Buds begin to Bloom.
Posted Image
Get Ready: It's time for YOU to do YOUR Part .....
OK, you've got a Salvia Plant with Flowers on it: Now what do you Do?
You wait until a flower falls off of the Plant: pick up the freshest fallen flower and look at it. Sticking out of the open end of the flower is something that looks like a Forked snakes tongue: This is called the pistle. The Inside of the Fork on the End of the Pistil is Called the Stigma: it has the Receiving Channels for the Pollen in it. Below the pistle are two small Brownish or yellow-whiteish pinheads sticking out on small white threads: these are called anthers.
Flower Parts illustration: the steps on the Road to seeds
Posted Image
What you want to do now is to wipe the anthers that are on the flower in your hand right along the middle of the forked tongue (the Stigma) of the remaining flowers on your plant. Wipe the protruding and fuzzy pinheads on the flower you are holding along both sides of the inside of the White Forked Snakes Tongue protruding from the remaining flowers on your plant (the Stigma). Wipe them carefully along the inside of the "V" Shape made by the end of the Pistle.
Posted Image
The pollen is invisible and you'll not be able to tell if you've done it correctly. (it takes but a Second or Two for a quick wipe.) If you do this twice a day, you have six chances to pollinate any given flower, because the flowers only stay on the plant for about three days after they open.
The fifth Sign: After about three days the flower will fall out of the little purple cup it bloomed out of. This little purple cup is called a calyx. This is where the seeds will be forming in the next four weeks.
Posted Image
Mr. Siebert wrote me: "Another way to do it is to remove the anthers from one flower with tweezers, and then use the isolated anthers to dust the stigma (the forked end of the pistil) with pollen. If fertilization is successful, the calyx of the fertilized flower will stay on the plant for several weeks after pollination. If it is unsuccessful, it will fall off a few days after the pollination attempt."
He also wrote: "The mature seeds are pretty small (1.8ˆ2.1 mm long, 1ˆ1.2 mm wide). They are green when immature. They are dark brown when mature. If you peek inside the calyces with a hand lens, you will see the developing nutlets.
Posted Image
You'll also notice a cream-colored protuberance alongside the seeds. This is the gynobase horn. Each calyx can produce up to four seeds. Watch for the seeds to change color from green to brown. When they turn dark brown they are ripe. Once they are ripe, they will fall out of the calyx easily. Valdés noted that it took 25-27 days between date of pollination and date of seed harvest on the plants that he hand-pollinated."
So, you hand pollinate all the flowers you can get to twice a day using the freshest fallen Flower. You do this throughout the entire blooming season. Every little purple cup (calyx) that stays on the plant over a week after the flower has fallen out is developing seeds inside of it.
The Sixth Sign: You get your magnifying glass, and you look up inside of those calyces that refuse to fall off the Plant.
Posted Image
If you see seeds like these ripening inside the calyces, you should slip a small covering over the calyx to prevent the loss of seeds. The scientists in the paper I am citing from used small glassine envelopes: last year I used 1 inch by 1 inch small Ziploc bags to cover the calyces and Prevent seed loss.
Posted Image
This year I shall be using 5/8 inch by 5/8 inch 2 mil Ziploc bags to cover the calyces. (This is a better Size as the 1 in. by 1 in. bags were a bit large.) I bought a thousand of them and will sell them in Pairs Only at Two for three cents (3¢ for 2 bags) if you wish to buy some from Me.
I have determined that there is an easy way to tell, just by looking, whether not any given calyx is developing seeds. I have observed that the cross section shape of the calyx that the flower has just fallen out of is oval when you look right into it. If viewed from the side its shape is conical or tapered. If pollination is successful the cross section shape of the calyx, over the next four weeks, becomes square and the calyx itself elongates into a boxy and square looking tube. This is because the septals continue growing as the seeds ripen, and the seeds push out, as they ripen, in four different directions to get a distinct square cross section. At the start: the width of the open end is MUCH Wider than the closed end. But in 3 weeks time the closed end swells up as the calyx lengthens until both ends are the same width. In addition: you can actually see the shadow of the seeds forming up inside the calyx. This is a good time to put a protective baggie over the calyx.
After four weeks the seeds are ripe: carefully remove the calyx and ripe seeds with the Ziploc bag still covering them.
Posted Image
Happy Harvesting!

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#2 rocketman

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 08:49 AM

Good luck with that llama. I just edited my post telling the ills of seed grown vs. cloned lol. I figure it best to wait and see what you get before I chime in lol. I have had sally for a couple of years or more and never seen a bloom.

#3 llamabox

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 09:10 AM

Oh neither have I. But in this paper they state that Salvia uses the same lighting triggers that MJ uses to bloom.

" This Means that if you are growing Salvia Divinorum in a basement, or somewhere where it gets NO Natural light: you can Induce Flowering simply by setting your daylight photoperiod down to 11 hours of Daylight. There is no need to taper the daylight hours down to 11 hours slowly: it can be done overnight.


Summary: IF the plants get a sufficiently long period of uninterrupted (and DARK) darkness each night they will bloom for you. It's their instincts at work. This plant will follow it's instincts to bloom and set viable seeds."

I just wonder how many people have tried this. And if there was a way to get "Wild" salvia for breeding projects.

#4 llamabox

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 09:16 AM

Stressed Species Become Sterile
By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News

At least one species of plant at its northern limits is losing the ability to reproduce sexually due to a "sex versus survival" battle waged under harsh environmental conditions, according to a recent study.

That asexual survival tactic allows species to adapt to inhospitable environments in the short run by becoming "enormous, genetically homogenous superclones," researchers said, but in the longer run, some researchers fear the sterile clones may not be able to move with changing climates.

“ Cloning also is a way to make sure that nothing changes. ”

And because the plant's sterility results from genetic mutations over a short period of time, in this case months or years, the findings are among the first to indicate that complex, formerly beneficial traits, such as sexual reproduction, can erode very quickly.

For the study, scientists studied Decodon verticillatus, a wetlands shrub present throughout eastern North America. The aquatic plant has the ability to reproduce both sexually and asexually. Sexual reproduction involves the spread of pollen by insects. The male organ, the stamen, produces pollen, which functions like sperm. Pollen fertilizes the pistil female organ containing the stigma and ovary. Asexual reproduction involves cloning through branch-tip rooting.

Researchers tracked the reproductive behavior and survival of the shrub in its natural New England setting across Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Maine. They also grew some of the plants in a greenhouse for control purposes.

The findings were published in a recent issue of the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society.

The team tracked 780 outdoor plants from 1998-2000. During that time, 479 plants died, with most of the deaths occurring over the winter. Of the survivors, 43 percent were sterile, while 28 percent were fertile.

Christopher Eckert, lead author of the study and a biologist at Queen's University in Ontario, explained that sterility appears to be linked to enhanced heartiness. If given the choice between sex and survival, the plant often chooses sterility, which involves a permanent genetic change.

"We know from detailed analysis of one population that sterility seems to be caused by a single recessive mutation, so perhaps sterility can arise quickly," Eckert told Discovery News.

The result is that the aquatic plant consists of one big clone at its northernmost range.

"These superclones consists of lots of separate plants — often thousands growing around large lakes — that are genetically identical," Eckert said.

He added that while reproduction by cloning can allow the plant to live under harsh conditions, this form of reproduction is not as beneficial to the overall species as sex, which creates genetically diverse populations in which some mutations may allow for geographical and climate range shifts.

"It is generally thought that asexuality is an evolutionary dead end, though we don't know for sure in this case," Eckert said.

Other plants, like bamboo, and animals, such as stony corals, hydras, sponges, starfish and sea cucumbers can produce asexually. Aphids, like Decodon verticillatus, produce both sexually and asexually.

While many gardeners might applaud a drop in the aphid population due to environmental-induced cloning, such a drop could hurt populations of more desirable insects, such as ladybugs, which feed on the aphids.

Paul Licht, director of the U.C. Berkeley Botanical Garden, told Discovery News that sex is always a gamble for plants and animals.

"If we could cut off a piece of our skin to create a baby clone, we would probably experience a huge baby boom because the process would not require much effort and the baby would have a similar survival rate as its parents," he said.

"Cloning also is a way to make sure that nothing changes," he added. "If one plant survives under harsh conditions, then its clones also have a good chance of surviving. The disadvantage is that the species could go extinct if the environment changes."

Thorsten Reusch, a researcher at the Max Planck Institute of Limnology in Germany, agrees with the new study's findings, but does not believe that cloning necessarily will lead to extinctions.

"The only problem would occur if species would be compressed through global change in such a way that there are no sexual members of the population left," Reusch told Discovery News, adding that climate change creates more uncertainty in our futures.

Reusch said, "We are currently conducting a global unreplicated experiment in which the net effect on biodiversity, human well-being and in the potential for life to evolve further is put severely at risk."

#5 rocketman

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 09:17 AM

well, I have grown indoors and outdoors for this very reason. half in and half out. the natural photo period in my area doesnt trigger jack. my poppies bloomed on the solstice just like they were suppose too, and one of my trichos is setting buds for flowers.......sally just grows downward trying to bury itself (my theory) for new roots.

#6 Hippie3

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 06:41 AM

i've never seen any viable sally seeds,
until then
i remain a skeptic.

#7 marsofold

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 01:41 AM

http://www.members.cox.net/sageseeds/

#8 Pedestrian

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 03:24 AM

Man... that site is bomb as hell. So much good info. Saved that one to ye' ol' HD.

Thanks mars!

#9 golly

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 08:07 AM

Good info....thanx.....:thumbup:

#10 llamabox

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 08:30 AM

That is one thing I am still trying.

I posted this about a month ago....http://mycotopia.net...ht=salvia seeds

#11 Hippie3

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 08:51 AM

so who has viable sally seeds ?

#12 llamabox

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:07 AM

From Sagewisdom.org....
"Unfortunately, the Salvia divinorum seeds that I obtained this year are not viable (none of the 30 seeds that I tested germinated). Apparently they are too old (they were harvested in the fall of 2004). Hopefully, I can obtain fresher seeds next year. Check back here in January or February of 2007."


And from the site linked above...

"I Wrote Mr. Siebert to ask him if he'd LIKE to sell the Mature Salvia Seeds "we" are going to Grow this Year from his SageWisdom Web Site. And here's most of his reply:

"Yes. Definitely. I would be happy to buy Salvia divinorum seeds from anyone as long as they are genuine and viable. I'll have to think about the purchase price.

Make sure on your website that you advise people to refrigerate their seeds after harvest. In my experience, they remain viable for about 2 years if refrigerated, but only a few months if stored at room temperature. "

#13 Hippie3

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:08 AM

hmm, seems i've heard similar before...

#14 llamabox

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:11 AM

And I know of one member here who has a couple plants going into flower now. I asked him to make a thread and keep us posted as to his process and success.

#15 Guest_CoyoteMesc_*

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:15 AM

Is it easier to grow from a cutting?
Or just more common?

#16 Hippie3

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:19 AM

it's just about the only option
as viable seeds are rarer than unicorn hides

#17 Guest_CoyoteMesc_*

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:24 AM

yeah I thought I once read it takes a Lab's left hand to get em' to produce seeds.

#18 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 08:42 PM

me wants a unicorn's hide :space:




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