92 replies to this topic

[grave]

when you trip with others, and it starts to go bad for them, you have to be there for them. you need to talk them down, comfort them. at this point their bad trip is really all that should be focused on. because if the tables were turned youd want the same help.

i find it is easier to just trip with people who can handle the power of the mushroom. of course even experienced shroomers will have unpleasant experiences. but i dont see the point in shrooming with people who you are going to constantly worry about.

as far as medical help goes. i would shy away from bringing anyone to a hospital or medical professional at all costs. the bad trip will wear off in a few hours, much quicker than any legal problems they may have if they choose otherwise.

like said above. have a pill to chill them out around.

[solar]

Some good reading on the topic is at <font color="ff6000"> http://www.erowid.or...risis_faq.shtml.</font>

A large section of it:

<font size="+1">Type of Situation</font>

1. <u>Is there immediate or potential physical danger?</u> [Critical] Is the person conscious? Is breath rate depressed or accelerated? Heart rate? Is there any skin discoloration? If unconscious, is there an appropriate pain response?
2. <u>Is the person a danger to themselves or others?</u> [Critical] Are they violent and acting threateningly towards others? What are the chances that they will attack someone? Hurt themselves unintentionaly? Get in a car and drive? Attempt suicide?
3. <u>Are they having a spiritual, mental, or emotional crisis?</u> [Crisis] Do they seem overly scared, depressed, or angry? Mood swings? Acting crazily? Awake but non-responsive?

<font size="+1">Situations that Require Professional Help</font>

1.If you feel that lives are in danger.
a.If you feel that the situation is out of control and there is nobody else willing to take responsibility for the individual.

<font size="+1">Critical or Life Threatening Situation</font>

1. <u>Who is available to help you?</u> Find someone with medical emergency experience. The more, the better, but someone with Red Cross training is much better than someone who knows no basic first aid.
2. <u>If the person is seizing.</u> Loosen clothing, cushion and position the person's body to prevent injury and choking. Seizures can be very, very serious, are more risky the longer they last or the more frequently they occur, and can cause permanent brain damage in the worst of cases.
3. <u>If the person is conscious.</u> Look for telltale signs of what they took: severe jaw tension is usually associated with MDMA or other stimulants. Watch for nystagmus (eye-wiggles), also a sign of stimulant use. Look for sweating -- sweating is a good sign at this point. Watch for chills, cover them with a blanket if they appear to be shivering.
4. <u>If the person is unconscious.</u> Gently try to wake them. Shake them gently, speak to them in a firm voice ("Are you ok? Should I get a doctor?") If they are vomiting, turn them on their side so the vomit can flow out of their mouth (so they don't choke). Try to determine if the person is in a coma, or a dissociated state [see below].
5. <u>If the person is not breathing</u>, attempt to get their breathing going again. Loosen clothing. Shake gently. Clear airways, especially if they have vomited. If someone knows how, perform CPR.
6. <u>Call 911.</u> Remember that it will take time for assistance to respond and be prepared for the arrival of emergency vehicles and possibly police officers. Clear a way for emergency personnel to get to the person. If you are at a party, get the music turned off and get an announcement made to locate friends...if any are available.

This can be a difficult decision in many situations, but at this point we're talking about a life-threatening event. The consequences of calling in outside help will be far less severe than the consequences of losing a life.

<font size="+1">Crisis Situation (Emotional, Mental, Spiritual)</font>

In most situations you're not trying to force any particular action or reaction on the part of the person experiencing the crisis. The point isn't to "talk them down" since this doesn't work and usually makes things worse. Make sure they know that everything in the outside world is ok...you're with them, watching out for them. Make sure they don't hurt themselves or others, and if things get out of control, call for help. Whatever you choose to do, watch for their reaction. If what you're doing seems to make things worse, move on to something else.

Many guides and counselors who have experience with this type of acute emotional/spiritual crisis say that the best thing to do is to tell someone to let go and relax into the feelings. The mantra "breathe, relax, let go" was developed in the 1960's and 1970's for psychedelic therapy and it is argued that much of the emotional dissonance and mental stress comes from fighting and resisting potentially uncomfortable internal processes. Guides suggest that it is the fear which is often the dominant force precipitating a crisis and the main role of a crisis-manager is to help create a space where the person can feel safer.

<font size="+1">Pitfalls to Avoid</font>

-Don't try too hard to 'get them to come down'. This often makes things worse.
-Don't confuse them by repeatedly asking them questions they can't answer.
-Don't make them feel even more isolated by acting worried and nervous around them.
-Probably avoid any complex physical activities, like trying to zipper a jacket or fixing the stereo or lighting the pilot light on the stove.
-Respect their needs and boundaries.
-Don't touch them if they don't want to be touched.
-Give them space if they seem to want it.

<font size="+1">What To Do</font>

1. If someone seems to be having a hard time, gently ask them if they would like someone to sit with them. If it seems disturbing to them to have someone sitting with them, have someone nearby keep an eye on them unobtrusively.

2.Relate to them in the space they are in. Oftentimes, the thing which isolates people and creates a sense of paranoia or loss is that they are *so far out* of normal awareness that people are trying hard to ground them. Start off instead by trying to just be there for them. Try to see the world through their eyes.

3.What different ways can you change setting (noise level, temperature, outside vs. inside, etc.)? A party/rave/concert setting can aggravate a person's state of mind. Consider finding the quietest place if it seems like it will help (taking cues from the experiencer), and ask people to not crowd around. Reassure them the situation is under control, noting those who offer help in case help is needed later.

4. How can you minimize risk of emotional or physical harm? Remember your concern for how the person is feeling, not concern for the situation (as in "oh my gawd, we've got to do something.")

5. Paranoia: If the person doesn't want anyone near them, hang back, turn so you aren't staring at them, but keep an eye on them as discretely as possible. Think about what it would feel like to be in a paranoid state, having some stranger (whether you are or not) follow you around and watch you.

6. What objects/activities/distractions might help the person get through a difficult space (toys, animals, music, etc.)?

7. No Pressure: Just be with them. Unless there is risk of bodily injury, just make it clear you are there for them if they need anything.

8. Touch. Touch can be very powerful, but it can also be quite violating. In general, don't touch them unless they say its OK or they touch you first. If it seems like they might need a hug, ask them. If they are beyond verbal communication, try to be very sensitive to any negative reaction to touch. Try to avoid getting pulled into any sexual contact. Often, holding hands is a very effective and non-threatening way to let someone know you are there if they need you.

9. Intensity can come in cycles or waves. It also can work as a system -- a movement through transpersonal spaces which can have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Don't try to push too hard to move it.

10. Not Forever: If they are connected enough to worry about their sanity, assure them that the state is due to a psychoactive and they will return to their 'home' state of mind in time.

11. Normal Drug-Induced: Tell them they are experiencing the acute effects of a psychoactive (if you know what, tell them) and tell them that it is normal (although uncommon) to go through spiritual crises and they (like thousands before them) will be fine if they relax and let the substance run its course.

12. Breathing: breathe with them. If they are connected enough to be present for assistance, get them to join you in deep, long, full breaths. If they're amenable to it, or really far out and freaking, putting a hand on their belly and saying, "breath from down here", "just keep breathing, you 'got it", can help.

13. Relaxing: It can be very very hard to relax in the middle of dying or being pulled apart by demons, but tell them that you are there to make sure nothing happens to their physical body. One of the most important things during really difficult internal processes is to learn to be OK with them happening, to 'relax' one's attempt to stop the experience and just let it happen.

14. Getting Meditative: Gently suggesting they try to close their eyes and focus inward can sometimes change the course of their experience.

15. Barefeet on the ground: One of the most centering and grounding thing to do is to take off shoes and socks and get your feet directly on the hard ground. Be careful of doing this in toe-dangerous surroundings.

16. Eye contact: If the person is not acting paranoid and fearful of you, make sure to include a lot of eye contact.

17. Everything is Fine with Me: Make it clear that the whole world may be falling apart for them, but everything is OK with you.

18. Healthy process: Crises are a normal part of the human psychological process and one way to engage them is as a process of healing, not a 'problem' to be fixed. See Grof, Bill Richards, et al.

**Read the complete article at <font color="ff6000"> http://www.erowid.or...risis_faq.shtml.</font>**

(Message edited by solar on January 22, 2005)

[reefer]

"You'd better pray to god you got some thorazine in that bag, or you're in big fuckin trouble."- Fear and Loathing

[reefer]

Seriously though, If I find myself starting to freak out or feel anxious I just repeat the following phrase over and over while taking slow deep breaths.

"With every breath I take, my entire body feels more and more relaxed."

I know it sounds cheezy but it really works. My heart rate starts to slow down, I feel my muscles start to relax, and I feel better.

[buddahjoe]

sometimes just being a friend and talking to the person having the crisis is enough. I had an experience at a 3day concert/camping event where my friend and i took liquid then 1hour later nothing was happening and we thought the liquid was fake so we split the mushrooms we bought and within a half an hour things got a little crazy. So my friend has a sensitive stomach and went to the bathrooms to puke leaving me alone for a while. When he came back i didnt know who he was which freaked him out(we'd been best friends for ever), anyway to make a long story short this dude camping by us named Eric came over and sat with our tripped out asses and kept us safe while we sorted out our heads. Basically Eric saved our asses and we didnt even know the guy. So sometimes just being sane and grounded is enough.

[reefer]

"or just tie him up, blindfold and gag him"

That's even better than my closet idea. That way he wouldn't be making so much noise and damaging the inside of my closet.