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#1 llamabox

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 03:26 PM

Am I correct in dosage of 300mg of Moclobemide 1hr before dosage of 100mg DMT capsule?

#2 JBB

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 05:23 PM

150mg 45 minutes before the DMT seems to be the standard dose.

I've even heard of 75mg working.

#3 tregar

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 08:05 PM

Don't know a whole lot about moclobemide use, but just in case you ever look into using pure harmine hcl:

QUOTE From TIHKAL: (note below that 100mg harmaline is equivalent to about 200mg harmine hcl, also harmine is the major component of caapi, not harmaline which is only found in trace amounts):
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(with 100 mg harmaline, 120 mg DMT [10 min]) "It was not until 80 minutes into the experiment that it became clear that CNS effects were occurring. Initially this was felt as clarity of detail of everything around me followed by slight time distortion. There was no loss of reality but closed eye imagery developed rapidly, later becoming present even with eyes open even though less intense. Images were initially very colorful consisting of sheets of patterns infinitely repeated with some gentle waviness, somewhat like looking through a kaleidoscope. Deliberate shifting of attention was possible at all times and although gait was mildly affected it was possible to perform any given task with concentration. There was no loss of identity or reality. Pupillary movements did not change the area of focus of my 'sight', which was surprising. Images could be willfully dismissed as desired with eyes open. Music became another world with headphones on, and 'Hearts of Space' albums easily became voyages which could be interrupted at any desired point with eyes opening. The effects began to recede at the two and a half hour point. The bright colors and patterns had shifted to less intense scenery in a calm peaceful way. At no time was there any noticeable amphetamine jaw-clenching, hyperactivity, or restlessness. The entire episode had ended at the four hour point leaving an intense feeling of happiness and amazement. Sleep was easy at five hours, and yet for the subsequent 30 hours my concentration was noticeably impaired. There were no motor problems or incoordination, yet short-term memory was significantly disrupted, requiring deliberate concentration on minor things. At 38 hours my mental condition seemed back to normal. The only criticism I might make of this experience was that there seemed to be none of the insight that I had experienced with TMA-2. This seems, however, to be a very psychologically safe experience for almost anyone and was very enjoyable."
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QUOTE from Jonathan Ott 'Pharmacotheon':
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Accordingly, in EXPERIMENT 10, I ingested a capsule containing 30 mg DMT free-base plus 94 mg harmine HCL (=80 mg base; i.o mg/kg). The effect was similar to that of the previous experiment. Though more intense, it still fell short of the stronger effect 30 mg DMT had given when accompanied by extracts of 4 g harmel seeds. I increased the dose again, to 117 mg harmine hydrochloride (=100 mg harmine base; 1.25 mg/kg) with the standard 30 mg DMT base. This EXPERIMENT n again led to a threshold effect of DMT, still falling short of the effect of 30 mg combined with extracts of 4 g of harmel seeds.

For EXPERIMENT 12, I increased the quantity of harmine hydrochloride to 141 mg (=120 mg base; 1.5 mg/kg), and ingested this along with 35 mg DMT free-base (0.44 mg/kg). By 45 minutes after ingestion, it was obvious the dose was psychoptic, and I experienced a distinct DMT effect building to a peak at 1:05 after ingestion and maintaining a plateau until 1:50, with the effects largely dissipated by 3 hours after ingestion. This experience was of comparable intensity to EXPERIMENT 6 involving ingestion of a similar amount of DMT (30 mg; 0.38 mg/kg) with extract of 4 g of harmel seeds, and we may conclude that 120 mg of harmine (1.5 mg/kg) will effect sufficient in vivo MAO-inhibition to render DMT active orally with a longer duration and about half the potency of inhaled DMT vapor.

To confirm these results, I decided to make another experiment with the harmine/DMT combinations, slightly increasing the amounts of both compounds. Accordingly, I prepared a capsule containing 188 mg harmine hydrochloride (=160 mg harmine base; 2.0 mg/kg) and 40 mg DMT base (0.5 mg/kg).

This capsule was ingested in EXPERIMENT 13 and indeed provoked a proportionally stronger DMT effect with the first effects felt in 20 minutes, building to a peak by 1:30 after ingestion with a plateau until 2:40, and clearly diminishing effects at 3:00 after ingestion. By 4:00 after ingestion there were no effects, nor after-effects. All in all, the experience was quite pleasant and similar to EXPERIMENT 3 in Ecuador with about 50 leaves of DMT-containing Psychotria viridis per dose, 'though somewhat less potent. A control EXPERIMENT 14 with 141 mg harmine HCL (=120 mg base; 1.5 mg/kg) without DMT evoked no perceptible effects, proving definitively that the visionary effects of the "ayahuasca capsules" were a result of DMT rendered orally active by simultaneous ingestion of an MAO-inhibitor.
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Here is a report from Jonathan Ott where he mentions seeing colored patterns with eyes open as well as closed (from 'Pharmacotheon'):
Later experiments were done with pure harmine hcl and 30, 35, and 40mg dmt.
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I next experimented with an extract of 4 grams harmel seeds (80-280 mg B-carbolines) to which 30mg isolated DMT free-base was added. This EXPERIMENT 6 produced distinct visionary effects of DMT commencing 1:10 after ingestion and building to a peak in 5 minutes, with a 45 minute plateau (to 2:00 after ingestion), followed by another hour of distinct, 'though diminishing, DMT effects consisting of colored patterns with eyes opened and closed, exhilaration and stimulation alloyed with the sedative effect of the harmel seeds, which caused me to yawn repeatedly. The orally-active DMT was less potent than smoked DMT, perhaps half as potent.

Accordingly, since I found the effect of the harmel seeds to be disagreeable, and wished to establish the minimum dose of B-carbolines needed to render DMT orally active, I extracted harmine from Peganum harmala seeds, and purified it as the hydrochloriede salt (melting point 262 degrees C), for further experiments.
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Jonathan mentions that his 4 gram harmel seed with 30mg dmt free base experiment 6 above had the same intensity as his experiment 12 where he used 141 mg harmine hcl with 35 mg dmt free base.

#4 llamabox

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 08:28 PM

I have Tihkal here next to me but thanks for the info. I am sure someone can use it.

#5 entheogen23

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:04 PM

please post a trip report! this is a combination I am very much interested in.

thanks, and sweet dreams :D

-e23

#6 JBB

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 07:43 AM

Am I correct in dosage of 300mg of Moclobemide 1hr before dosage of 100mg DMT capsule?


Yeah, go with at least 300mg and leave it 60-90 minutes before the DMT. I don't believe 150mg produces enough inhibition.

#7 entheogen23

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 11:07 AM

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Moclobemide

A single 300 mg] dose of moclobemide inhibits 80% of monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and 30% of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B)


From all reports 300mg seems to be the standard dose for use as a MAOI with oral tryptamines.

But that said, you may only need 150mg. It all seems to depend on individual body chemistry. (some are the "high MAOI types" already)

#8 JBB

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 06:35 AM

Moclob and DMT freebase is something to be treasured and worshipped

:bow:

I find it the most sacred, wonderful psychedelic experience. Everyone should try it.

#9 entheogen23

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 10:58 AM

how much dmt freebase do you recommend from your experiences?

#10 waylitjim

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 12:09 PM

With all the chemicals used to extract DMT, isn't it harmful to injest?

#11 Guest_cap_*

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 01:22 PM

relatively speaking, smoking/vaporizing it has to be a lot worse

#12 waylitjim

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 04:34 PM

How do you figure?

What's worse, drinking lye or inhaling the vapors?

#13 Guest_lost_onabbey_rd_*

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 05:18 PM

i wouldn't imagine that that small amount of lye would do much.. maybe cause a little gas when it reacts with the HCL of the stomach.. HCl + NaHO = H20 + NaCl
the only real concern i would think would be the solvent, which as a petrollium (sp:rasta:) product is probibly a carcenogen (sp.. lol)
lost

#14 entheogen23

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 06:48 PM

indeed, smoking is higher risk that ingesting orally, as with most substances in the dosage range of NN-DMT (50-150mg) range. Oral is actually one of the safest drug admistration routes, since the speed-to-blod and brain is so slow compared to smoking, IV/IM, or recally.

And sodium hydroxide (lye) doesn't boil/vaporize until 1390°C, which is WAY hotter than you'd ever get any pipe with a torch lighter and not burn off and destroy all of the DMT. The risk of lye is only in inhaling the dust left over, which is in such trace amounts the risks are very low. If you wash well (using ammonia or sodium carbonate) very little if no lye is left. (you can flame test to find out). Orally, that little lye is of no concern, as it will be neutralized by HCL in the stomach (as lost_on_abbey_rd mentions)

Also, as lost_on_abbey_rd points out, the biggest risk is solvent residues, which if you distill or use lab-grade is a minor concern if you freeze preciptiate.

Hexane and heptane are not carcinogenic, but some of the byproducts of some petroleum products are (such as Benzene, not to be confused with benzine).

#15 Vapor

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 10:27 PM

2 QUESTIONS:
Does an amonia wash do anything to get rid of solvent residue or only the lye?
IS IT SAFE TO SMOKE SOMETHING RECRYSTALIZED WITH HEPTANE IF THE CRYSTALS FORMED BY EVAPORATION RATHER THAN FREEZE PRESIP?

#16 drtask

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:39 AM

what does the maoi you are discussing do? is it one that puts you to sleep? if so, does your dmt intake cause you to have lucid dreams?

#17 entheogen23

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:51 AM

2 QUESTIONS:
Does an amonia wash do anything to get rid of solvent residue or only the lye?
IS IT SAFE TO SMOKE SOMETHING RECRYSTALIZED WITH HEPTANE IF THE CRYSTALS FORMED BY EVAPORATION RATHER THAN FREEZE PRESIP?



No, ammonia is polar, any petroleum residues would be non-polar. Ammonia only is for neutralizing lye.

Is it safe? Well, it depends. If the heptane you use is 100% pure, lab-grade, and you evap it all away, then yes it would be as safe as it can be. Home distilled heptane/hexane is better. If you used non-distilled colemans or some other naptha that has anti-rust agents and other crap in it, you might be smoking some of that as well, IMO bad news. Some might not worry about such things, but I say why take un-needed risks?

#18 entheogen23

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 12:54 AM

what does the maoi you are discussing do? is it one that puts you to sleep? if so, does your dmt intake cause you to have lucid dreams?


google and wikipedia are your friends:

http://en.wikipedia....idase_inhibitor

Ayahuasca, an entheogenic brew traditionally used in strict ritual context by South American native tribes, is a mixture of Banisteriopsis caapi, a vine containing various harmala alkaloids, and another plant containing N,N-DMT or 5-MeO-DMT alkaloids, usually Psychotria viridis or Diplopterys cabrerana. Modern, western analogues to ayahuasca often substitute Syrian Rue for B. caapi and Mimosa hostilis as a DMT source. As DMT is inactive orally on its own, it must be combined with an MAOI when taken orally in order to cause psychedelic effects.



#19 JBB

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 04:26 AM

how much dmt freebase do you recommend from your experiences?


I'd start with 150mg. But DMT is by far the friendliest entheogen I've ever encountered so I'm often using 200-300mg. There can be a little nausea for the initial come-up period of 30-45mins but after that it has the cleanest bodyhigh and most beautiful visuals by far.

I'm just evaporating off naptha, are there really going to be carcinogens left in the DMT crystals?

#20 JBB

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 04:52 AM

Then again they use xylene and all kinds of poisons to seal wood floors with. If they still had carcinogens on them after they'd evaporated to dry then every time your baby crawled across the floor he'd have carcinogens coating his body.




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