Posted 08 December 2006 - 08:18 PM
Great, look forward to hearing reports in the future, Condo.
I'm working with pure harmine hcl (not harmaline) at 170mg to 190 mg dose with xtals. So far, have taken 170mg of pure harmine hcl by itself with pleasant relaxed effects--I prefer it to my caapi, which I have taken twice, each time after 2 hours experiencing sea-sickness feelings at the peak and loss of apetite (all of which last for many hours) due to taking too much caapi (more than needed for maoi)...but this is what you have to go thru sometimes when working with caapi--since all the plants vary quite a bit in potency--and it's difficult to find the right amount--takes quite a bit of experimenting....I am happy to have found the same dose of harmine hcl that Jonathan Ott used works perfect for me too with no nausea or sea-sickness (170 to 190mg). It is expensive but well worth it imho. I dined on beef enchiladas with cheese and a 6oz chips and cheese queso with no ill effects at all...having eaten the dinner at 5pm, then took the harmine at 10:30pm.
Rue can also be extracted with hcl (see the ayahuasca forum--old posts by meteor and sync) and it will convert the less desirable harmaline to the more desirable harmine. (Harmine being found to compose 69% of caapi brew, with only traces of harmaline, THH is the second biggest component).
Located some information from Ott's rare book 'Ayahuasca Analogues' that now retails for $80 to $150--doesn't make any sense when the book used to only cost $15 when it first came out:
You won't find any descriptions of beautiful ayahuasca visuals in this book (not at all like Luna & Pablo Amaringo's book 'Ayahuasca Visions' of 48 visions paintings) but he does a pretty good job describing the intensity of effects in relation to dose.
Jonathan Ott is an 80 kg (176 pound) individual.
Here is a rating scale of subjective effects from varying amounts of dmt:
"For Experiment 19, I prepared a potion by three times extracting 3 g harmel seeds in 30% lime juice, yielding a total of 100 ml of extract (estimated content of 60-210 mg B-carbolines; average of 135 mg or 1.7 mg/kg), to which I added 40 mg DMT free base (0.5 mg/kg).
Entheogenic effects of DMT commenced about 1:10 after ingestion and built to a peak by 1:15, maintaining a plateau until 2:15, with the slow descent to 3:00, when effects had more or less disappeared.
On a five-point potency scale, with:
1 = non-entheogenic stimulation
2 = entheogenic threshold
3 = corresponding to a mild trip
4 = moderately-strong trip
5 = technical knockout of the ego
I rated this experiement a solid "3" with 40 mg DMT free base (0.5mg per kg).
this compares with (dmt free base below used orally with extract of 3g harmel seeds):
Experiment 5 = 20 mg DMT (0.25 mg per kg) = corresponded to a "1"
*Experiment 6 = 30 mg DMT (0.38 mg per kg) = corresponded to a "2"
Experiment 19 = 40 mg DMT (0.5 mg per kg) = corresponded to a "3"
Experiment 20 = 50 mg DMT (0.63 mg per kg) = corresponded to inbetween a "3" and a "4"
Experiment 21 = 60 mg DMT (0.75 mg per kg) = corresponded to a "4"
It is at least possible that, while ayahuasca MAO-inhibitors enable DMT to survive the rigors of the gut and be thus rendered active orally, they may exert an anti-DMT effect in the brain, which might help explain why oral DMT is much less active than DMT smoked.
Not only is the sedative effect of the B-carbolines undesirable, but we have at least cause to suspect these compounds of having a paradoxical effect antagonistic to DMT in the brain. The lesson here is that the B-carboline component of ayahuasca should be minimized; that ironically, we need less ayahuasca in our ayahuasca!
*Here is a description of Experiment 6 above (threshold level effects): "There were distinct, but threshold-level, entheogenic effects of DMT commencing 1:10 after ingestion, building rapidly to a peak at 1:15; holding a plateau until 2:00; descending to baseline level by 3:00. There were vivid colored patterns with eyes opened or closed, euphoric exhilaration and general stimulation alloyed with harmel seed sedation, which led me to yawn repeatedly."
He also mentions:
"Indeed, in the aftermath of several of my ayahuasca analogue experiments, I have intentionally dined on cheese sandwiches washed down with beer and chased with chocolate with absolutely no ill effects. It is probable that the transient MAO-inhibition of the B-carbolines in ayahuasca has ceased or greatly diminished by the time the DMT effects are over, but prudence would dictate not ingesting cheese, beer and chocolate during the trip! Generally, short-term fasting is a good idea before taking ayahuasca or any other entheogen. Not only do these drugs effect nausea in some patients, but the fulsome feeling of a stuffed belly is not conducive, shall we say, to a "higher chakra experience." This spiritual factor explains the dietary restrictiions associated with ayahuasca and many other traditional entheogens, which is quite unrelated to the coincidental dietary restrictions associated with medicinal MAO-inhibitors."
I have taken a dose of pure harmine hcl over 200 mg (but would only use about 160 to 190 mg when using with dmt in the future) and had closed eye visions of scenes related to nature and/or culture including animals, architecture, gardens, and people...but the visions were colored in dark greens and blues--they were not bright at all.
And a few tidbits of wisdom concerning the use of pure harmine hcl (especially Sync from the aya forum who has taken real ayahuasca some 120 times, then compared the effects of harmine hcl to caapi):
Sync "in a dream" used 250mg harmine hcl and appoximately 20 cc of tea. Sync quote (2001): "Taken 20 minutes after the harmine and with a small piece of chocolate cake. The results were spectacular to say the least. I believe that taking the harmine in closer proximity to the tea, and having some fat containing food directly on top of the harmine, may have been a significant factor in the power of the experience."
GodofEmptiness quote (2002): "My delusional brother's pit bull has access to pure harmine and harmaline, and found that for his weight, 120 kilos, (it's a big dog), approx 200mg of pure harmine is enough to provide the needed effect and a spectacular dream -- the dream was excellent -- This dreamer would recommend Harmine HCL if available to other dreamers."
Sync quote (2001): "The harmine seems very gentle and clean, far easier on the body and neurons than either of the natural plant sources. The anti-depressant effect with pure harmine is an order of magnitude greater than rue or the vine, and the spirit, well, to say it was present would be an understatement. There also seems to be a greater ability to experience the depths of emotions in a healthy way. I think it may be time for some to concider that the spirit of the plants is not confined to just the plants..."
Delysid quote (2001): "I have used pure harmine in a brew before. The thing is that I did not use a purified psychotria extract just a viridis tea so there was still a ton of sludgy garbage in it. I still received nausea but it was noticably less then with my usual caapi/peganum harmala seed brew, probably due to the lack of unneeded maoi's. As far as the effects go, the only difference that I noticed was the taste...the effects were the same as if I used the vine. Thus I doubt that THH nad hamaline contribute much to the brews effects."
Mckenna "The Invisible Landscape" (1994): "Graph # 7 from Smythies and Antun, "Binding of Tryptamines and Allied Compounds to Nucleic Acid," Nature, 223: p. 1062, Sep. 6. 1969. shows that there is not much difference in the reduction in fluorescence of harmaline (-42) and tetrahydroharmine (-38) in reaction with DNA or RNA, but harmine with its bulkier ring system appears to bind better to DNA (-90). Smythies's model is supported by evidence that 5HT and many of its analogs, including LSD-25, N, N-DMT, and harmine can bond to DNA, RNA, or both."
I have yet to add pure dmt xtals to the harmine or caapi brews.
I wanted to get famailiar with the maoi's on their own first to find my personal level and gauge what it feels like--when taken at the correct dose there is no nausea, no sea-sickness, no significant loss of gait or balance, and no appetite loss--has a slight sedated feeling to it. When too much is taken though, I have found that all the above will manifest.
Benny Shanon has excellent descriptions of ayahuasca visuals and sessions in his book, and these are the types of visions I'm after...I've always liked the longer journey--as well as the realistic three dimensional holographic visions.