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G2G (popcorn) and new fishtank F.C pics. [AUS]

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#21 BuckarooBanzai


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Posted 18 December 2006 - 10:27 PM

First off - greetings! Long time, no see....

Flax - use it whole, in small amounts. Flax powder will turn to a hideous slimey gunk if you use very much at all. Just a dab will do ya.

Bee Pollen - very expensive...but you only need a pinch per cake, really. Works nice in liquid cultures and agar, too. But again, just a tiny pinch (or a knife point, if that is more familiar).

Agar is fun. Pectin is a shitty substitute. Pectin is full of sugars that will throw off your nutrient mix and favor contaminants. Also, pectin forms a really weak gel. If you want a cheap substitute, you can get agar (also called Kanten) from oriental food stores. Be aware, food grade agar can be a bitch to dissolve fully, unless you can get flakes in a plastic/mylar bag. Flakes are reasonably easy to dissolve, but you need HOT water and LOTS of stirring.

Dropping the cash on lab grade agar is well worth it. A little goes a long way, making plates, by the way.

The secret to the polyfill port on a regular bag is to get it tight enough to keep out contams but loose enough to allow air flow. This is almost impossible to achieve without a stiff tube (PVC pipe, for instance) around the polyfill. You just can't grab a wad of polyfill tight enough without choking off the air flow. A little fresh air is crucial to success with bags.

Don't worry about overlay. It isn't really a problem with cubensis. Cubies will fruit quite nicely from a totally white mycelia "overlay." The only problem is later, after the first flush, trying to rehydrate. But that is what dunks are for...
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#22 fingers



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Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:44 AM

Thank u very much Buck, and it's good to see you alive and well :)
I couldnt find a store with agar today, I tried a couple of foreign grocers, talked to my chemist, still nothing.
I had a sneaking suspicion the food grade would be inferior in some way, thanks for comfirming that dude.
I'll pick up some of the bee pollen when my Agar comes in. Would you think it'd be wise to go the food grade my first attempt with Agar, surely I'll funk sumthin up, I dunno, I'll see how i go tracking down some lab grade agar before giving up ordering some.
And i've been chasing down some unsalted whole peanuts, that 100% peanut shell sub was insane!!!
If it's that effective/nutritious as a complete sub, it'd be safe to say it'd make a great additive, but eh, I've never used them so dont know.
I'm thinking I'll stick with the S.A for my first cloning attempt. I've heard nothing but good things about S.A.
I did manage to get my corn meal (sold as 'polenta' here(italian term for corn meal if i understand correctly) I'm also planning on fruiting strait popcorn in at least 1-2 casings, so I grabbed 5 kilo's of the stuff.
No go on the bag airports, check.
Overlay not really worth attempting to combat, check.
This port any better? I just worry about having enough FEA.
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That said, I'm wondering if there's any point trying the paper bags at all now :eusa_shif. I dunno, seemed interesting at the time.
I think your side by side of the coir vs verm pushed me towards a predominantly coir casing material which is what got me thinking about overlay in the first place. An easier fix, Less coir, more verm. check.
One last Question before i wrap up if thats ok. Jars for spawn is what I'm thinking about now. This popcorn has been hella slow, and I really dont want this to happen again with the new popcorn.
(I still dont fully understand how the dimensions slowed the popcorn THIS much).
Last night I was reading that stamets swears by fruiting at or around 84-86F. I was stunned. I've always been of the impression that 86 would be harmful to the myc. Personally after a couple of days of 80f+ temps, i think I'm almost sold.
Oh, and a little bit of a coincidence. I went and collected this today. Cept this isnt pure roo. For whatever reason they moved one of the Emu's into the roo enclosure, so i estimate about %5-10 is Emu.
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I'm fairly sure fowl/bird manure of any kind isnt a wise choice, so I might have to sift through and remove Emu from the equation yet.
I spoke with the manager and he assured me the Emu had been fed as the Roo's had for some time now, I'm still a tad hesitant.
Would you say eject the bird turd? Or go with the it as is?
Anyway, too long, too many questions, sorry Buck. It's just been a while since i had a chance to pick your brain.
Thanks for throwing up a response Buck. I'll be a lot more confident going into these next projects now. You've allready saved my cakes with the 'dont grind the flax' point alone!. What a damn waste of sub and additives that woulda been!:eusa_shif .
Thanking u very muchly Buck :bow:
Sincerely appreciated. :)

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#23 fingers



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Posted 20 December 2006 - 12:49 PM

Just a few pics.
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2parts popcorn,
2 parts kangaroo/emu,
1part coir/verm mix (70/30)
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A closer look at Emu
Thats all, now to see how she goes with some time. :)
Merry Christmas.

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#24 fahtster



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Posted 20 December 2006 - 01:27 PM

heya fingers. :) looks good... good luck on the bird poo. one thing... that tube of polyfil probably isn't going to let too much air thru unless you force it thru. you could probably just pull that out and use just the tyvek and be fine. may even want a few more of those all around the bin.. but it's kinda of something that your are going to have to adjust by going thru the motions... it's a hard thing to tell someone. theres a lot of variables that play a factor in individual setups. i keep a box fan on my bins 24/7 on low from about 4 feet away. so they get lots of air. just watch it carefully and don't do anything drastic either way. only one way to learn. :) good luck! and keep us posted.


#25 BuckarooBanzai


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Posted 21 December 2006 - 10:09 AM

Ask for Kanten flakes at the health food store. Kanten (agar) is a very popular gelling agent for vegetarians to cook with. Again, it is also popular with Asian folks who don’t have access to as much beef gelatin as we do. Seriously, though, will sell you 8ozs of agar for $25. 8 ozs is 224 grams. You will use about 15 grams of agar per liter of media. A liter is 1,000 mL. Each Petri/plate will need about 15mL of agar.

So 8ozs of agar will make well over 900 (average sized) petri dishes!

No need to worry about screwing up with the agar. Just use your existing tried and true favorite LC recipe and add the agar in small amounts (with lots of stirring) while the LC is boiling. Dissolving agar in very hot water is the easiest way to do it.

The bag port you picture is too tighly stuffed with polyfill. It should be very loosely filled. You should be able to breathe through it with very little resistance.

Coir makes a good casing layer, but it will dry out quickly on it’s own. Adding at least 40% verm (or 30% poly crystals) will increase the amount of water it can hold drastically. The coir makes a better casing layer for pinning but the verm/poly is far better for water retention. Mixing them (coir and verm/poly) is the best way to go, IMO.

You can fruit above 90F, if you need to. Remember most of these cubensis strains do very well in tropical/semi-tropical conditions. The magic 86F figure that people flaunt so highly was Stament’s results of experimenting with myc in dishes, growing on agar. And 86F wasn’t the only temp that worked, just the temp that produced the fastest 2d growth on agar. Jars/bags run rather differently.

The best reason to stay away from the higher temps is because the contaminants like it warm and grow much faster.

I would concur on the vent tubes in your tub: remove the polyfill and just leave the Tyvek. One layer of Tyvek would be fine. Bigger holes would be better too, I think. As long as you can keep RH high, you can’t have too much fresh air.

In closing, the Emu looks pretty good. How does it smell when moist? Is it loamy or bitter? The problem with most bird guanos is that they are so rich in nutrients they can “burn” things. But you can totally smell the difference between a moistened guano (bitter, complex, high smell) and moistened poo (loamy, simple, earthy smell). If it smells bitter, use it sparingly.<O:p

#26 fingers



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Posted 21 December 2006 - 11:47 PM

Thanks heaps Faht, Buck,

I'd totally forgotten about the fan blowing air onto the tubs. Strangely all 3 of my fans died within a week of each other, but theyre dirt cheap so i'll grab one today. :)

On the tyvek ports, i definately wanted to go with them from the get go.Somewhere in the big clean (pre-landlord inspection) I must have tucked it somewhere and is now never to be seen again.

They dont use tyvek here in the building industry anymore. Stopped being used about ten years ago, but i know it's used in kite making.
looked Everywhere, nothing. Only one place had heard of it even.:eusa_shif

In the end i said 'to hell with it' and just bought a tyvek chemical suit and cut it up. Bit of a shame, most of the cost is in the sewing etc. Ah well, $15 for enough tyvek for a year is no big deal.

I might get one of these things for making up my cakes n casings. (the average air temp's way up now so the popcorns colonising nicely.(no losses to contams yet :) )
Wearing plastic protective wear was bad enough in a hot kitchen in winter, but now being summer, it might be a wise investment.
(I'd be able to re-use it a couple times id think? keep it clean, wipe down with a weak dilution of bleach perhaps?)

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This tyvek feels a lot thinner and more supple then the tyvek sent from the U.S. These are used by the law at crime scenes and such here, so I'm fairly confident it's up to standard.

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When this subs spent I'll silicone seal these vents properly, I just didnt want to fumble with the tub much whilst full of a fairly loose/dry sub.

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This shot was 24 hours after spawning. The myc seems to be recovering nicely, but its obviously still too early to count any chickens.(I'm about to pull out the last of the polyfil ports and replacing them with tyvek as suggested.)

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I think this polycarbonate sheeting is my new favorite product. It's pretty cheap, transparency is fantastic.

On the agar note buck, I got an order at the health food shop waiting for me now that I'm gonna pick up, and if $25 can buy u approx 900 petri's worth of agar, I'll definately be ordering some for any future work. Thanks for that tip buck :)

The water crystals sound interesting. I'll have to hunt down that thread of yours where you go into a bit of detail about them.

Polyfil port way too tight, check. I might even go with tyvek patches now that I have some again. Feels like a lot less mess n fuss in this instance.
So fruiting at 90f acceptable, check (barring increased risk of contams of course). ATM the air temps here are 80-90f right through the night, and my AC's broken. So that puts my mind at ease a bit. When the tub just gets too hot i move it into the bathroom in the cool end of the house.
A question, at what temp does heat become damaging to cube mycelium? (For some reason i keep thinking 100f, dont know where i read that or if its correct).
The emu I'm thinking shouldnt be too much of a problem now. I was specifically picking up kangaroo, so the percentage of emu is fairly low. The manager of the farm/petting zoo told me the emu had been on the exact veg diet the roo's were on for weeks.
Definately smells more loamy then bitter, but there is a slight bitter twist to it. (but no more then strait horse poo was).

I have a good feeling about this one now. I'm just about to finish up on the tyvek ports.
I still have a second of the small white grates that I'm gonna install in the opposite end of the tub.
With the air temps we got at the moment the internal temp of the tub was getting real high last night. I'm hoping the increased FEA should counter it a little.

Oh, and one last question b4 i finish, how sparing should i be about looking into/opening the tub. I've only been slightly cracking the lid and peaking in. Is even that unwise at this stage?

I think thats about it atm really, thanks again Buck, Faht. I think getting rid of the canna growroom was the wisest move I've made in a while. As much as i love the hobby, in this area the stress outweighs the reward IMO. Now that most of it's gone and the bills are paid i can get about the business of growing some cubes, and bein happy. Haven't been doing anywhere near enough of either lately.

Thanks again for the help guys. Getting tips on this grow from you two reeeally makes me a lot more confident.

Very Much appreciated guys, and my best to u and urs over X-mas :)

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#27 Hippie3



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Posted 22 December 2006 - 07:41 AM

opening it up for some fresh air is good for it.

#28 BuckarooBanzai


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Posted 22 December 2006 - 09:07 AM

Thermal death for cubies has been established at 106F. I would be nervous getting above 103-104, but only if it was for a few hours.

Those suits are very high quality tyvek. That stuff will be re-usable many, many times.

As long as RH stays high, you can't really have too much fresh air. It is critical to promoting good pinning and healthy fruits once you go to the fruiting environment. Fresh air isn't as critical during the spawn run, but a little is still important. A stale tub will get totally overrun with cobweb very quickly.

#29 fingers



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Posted 23 December 2006 - 10:32 PM

Thanks Hip, Buck,

Seems to be comming along just fine ATM. Maintaining a constant temp has been fairly simple.
One concern though, i just had a look at the progress and noticed some pinning.
I'm now fairly sure i have a lot of light comming in through the airports. Should i be concerned? Maybe make up some form of shade with some of the thick panda sheeting.
I'd think light is a problem at this stage, as with a spawned bulk casing thats in incubation. Is this right?

I'll take some pics tommorow when i have more time, the last of the puerto ricans is comming along nicely too. (be it terribly slowly).

Be well all, and i hope everyones having a great X-mas :)

#30 fingers



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Posted 03 January 2007 - 02:41 AM

10 KG's worth of popcorn's contamed, the monotub's not fruiting, and I've lost 50% of the casings i made. Oh, and the bag is also not colonising.
What a total waste of cash.

#31 Hippie3



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Posted 03 January 2007 - 03:16 PM

don't freak,
i've lost way more than 10 kg over the years.
persistent practice makes for perfection,
you got pretty ambitious and things weren't quite right
so a price gets paid.
if anger is your only response
then you still lose.
your other thread ranting at us is clearly unfair
we just got thru a long double holiday
and i think you're projecting your anger at us.
chill, catch a breath and regroup.

#32 fingers



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Posted 03 January 2007 - 07:18 PM

I dont see how that was projecting anger, but if thats how it was taken, my apologies.
On the point of me 'being ambitious', that was actually at the advice of some who suggested larger jars.
The jars in the images were 100% successful, it was when i changed to larger jars that the problems occured.
It's just hard to know what advice to follow sometimes when advice gets thrown around by some.
I generally stick to the words of mods, as I've said before, I've yet to see a mod who didn't give solid advice and behave like gentlemen.

Maybe repeating the apology might help,

My apologies


#33 golly



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Posted 03 January 2007 - 07:53 PM

No worries Mate...Try to bring those temps down a bit for your fruiting..
Outdoors, those temps are fine but in an enclosed environ ,contams are highly favoured...

#34 Hippie3



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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:32 PM

a general rule
as temp increases
so should FAE 's

#35 Lazlo


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Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:24 PM

Hey Fingers, what's the deal with that mono tub? Is that cased popcorn and if so, did you allow the popcorn a few days to recover? Man, 90 is way too hot my friend! I'd freeze a couple of empty plastic 2 litres with water in them so you can put 1 in the tub and have 1 in the freezer for a substitute when the one in the tub thaws out. Hell, 3 or 4 for of them. Just stick one right in the center of tub in between the 2 substrates. Just slide the substrates back a bit in the center if you have to in order to fit a 2 litre, or a damn 1 litre for that matter. That's way too hot and you're heading for trouble. Just stay focused and get those temperatures down below 80 asap.

#36 fingers



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Posted 06 January 2007 - 08:21 PM

so sorry for the delay in this response guys,

I think if there were an incarnation of bad luck upon this earth, during this month, it'd be me. lol in a 'going insane' kinda way it amuses me. :eusa_shif

I managed to :

Fall down a manhole and possibly (further) damaged my spine.

and i managed to get put in jail on a fraudulant warrant. I must say, it was truly bizzare. The slopyness of their effort baffles me.
I was charged with "fail to attend' (court) on a measly charge that i did in fact attend.
I spoke calmly, explained that if they could walk me (NEXT DOOR 'literally 50 meters' I could I.D the court clerk in question and the matter could be solved without any custody.
Needless to say, i spent a good 8 hours stripped of my shoes, belt, jacket, umm dignity, left in cuffs, for at least 8-9 hours.

I was gieven the option of 'admitting' that i had failed to appear in court, or remain in custody over the weekend. i was IRATE.
UNTIL, i had reason to dance back to my cell...
My cheap govt paid court appointed was atually a decent man, and he had some doubts...but saw something was not right in this matter.
When he came back, he held the court document tentatively to the glass, and whispered as he pointed out where my attendance at court had 'loosly' been scribbled out.
Luckily it was legible, and indicated the date, time, and my attendance. They didnt even bother to erase it illegibly.
Those (excuse me hip, my apologies) LOW LIFE SNAKE @[email protected]%@^@AZZ"]FU#^@AZZ[/EMAIL]!!!).
I made a point to the officer early on, that he was WRONG. and when he was proven wrong, i expected a verbal apology to the staff of the store where they cuffed amd hauled me off (where i'm a regular and liked customer).

I'm gonna fight this to the last. I'm gonna do my best to see that this load of shit is swept into the open. Cos theres no way in hell my record should be smeared because some cop doesnt wanna admit he fucked up.

P.S on the way home, i got in a collision, went into shock, and now have no transport apart from public in the middle of an aussie summer.

So i say to you now..... please bow down... to the KING... of UNLUCKY DICKHEADS..... :bow:

But ya know what, ... I got a hard knock here, but I'm not laying down. I'll sell of my cars engine, dif, and gear box. With those alone i should be able to replace a small car. Get some more work, and see to it that that cop gets his. Cos im PISSED, and when im pissed im stubborn, and when im stubborn i wont back down.

Anyway, sorry guys, im just looping :amazed:

Thanks goll, you've allways been understanding mate. ur a good man.
Hip, sorry again. I'll make an effort to bite my tongue for ya.
and laz, i think that mono tubs gonna make it.
I saw the first fat little S.A smiling at me this morning. Ive turned ALL heating off, and its all sitting at 81-84f, which I'm happy with for fruiting.
I think the casing layer on my casings were far too wet and dense from bagging. i wrung it out, fluffed it, and removed about 80% of the depth of water logged casing layer. I added a small sprinkle of the dryer fluffier mix, and they seem pleased for it. A day or two after that (today) and theyre looking pretty happy. (lots of new fluffy white mycelium breaking evenly through the casing)

Casings are (popcorn/verm sub) coir/verm casing, some with a thin layer of verm prinkled over in the hope of 'thining' the ferocity of overlay in my previous (high coir content) casing mix (which was about 70% coir 30% verm).
Now I'm using more like 70% verm, 30% coir. Hopefully Ive interpretted enough of your collective advice, and the info I've fumbled through and mulled over in the vaults to at last fruit thse casings.

I went n put my camera and PH wand on loan for obvious reasons.(pics next week) The overwhelming mass of zoe's good karma seemed to effect my rent, but little else was left. :S If only i'd had two zoe's!! :lol:

#37 Hippie3



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Posted 06 January 2007 - 10:34 PM

i have regular spells of bad luck too.
hope yours changes soon.
the 70/30 verm/coir ratio sounds about right,
i go 2/3:1/3 which is pretty close to that

#38 fingers



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Posted 06 January 2007 - 11:30 PM

thanks Hip,

Any luck good or bad can only continue for so long. Law of averages dictates that.(or at least im tellin myself that) :p

I'm allready more pleased with the high verm content casing. It hydrates so nicely, and though it migh not be as sudden and vigourous fruiting as high coir, the fast and violent overlay of the high coir casings clearly isnt going to be anywhere near as much of a problem with my first casings.
I'm really looking forward to doing these cakes with a lot of your recommended additives (ala supercake inspired). From all accounts they colonise FAST and fruit well.
Plus with two 12 liter P.C's now and half pint containers (not to mention being a little more familiar with the process being a second run) I'm fairly positive they should do well.

Thanks guys



Just met a guy who works in an industry where the tyvek suit i purchased is used daily. He's more then happy to swap me a bunch of suits for a little mary :)
That should make my working in semi sterile conditions a bit easier. One of those suits, painters mask, and my painters goggles, chemical proof rubber gloves i get at the hardware store, and I'm pretty damn sterile :)

I still talk too much when stoned. :eusa_shif

#39 fingers



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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:24 AM

I've done a bit of thinking on all the info I've digested as of late through the new and old vaults. (as well as following current grows as best i can).
And I'm a little confused on a couple things.

Such as, 'whats a substrate...and whats a casing'.

I dont mean that in the 'define the term' please, or why we use casings or anything like that. I mean, if we can fruit a sub without a casing layer, and casings layers such as coir/verm or verm alone are componants of both subs, and casings.
As coir itself is mildly nourishing, and IMO great for 'lightening up' the myc's growth path (along with verm of course for hydration)

What point is there in fussing over 'do you or do you not case a colonised sub'. I really, really dont understand. Is it that the surface of the sub is too dry and wont fruit well by the time its ready to fruit? and the casing gives it that fresh light microclimate to initiate that growth?

I'm just a little confused why some swear by open air, or hate it. While some case and others dont. I'd really like to get a good yield from this monotub and thats the one I'm most concerned with.
Do i leave it as it is, or do i again case it.
It was 'in a sense' cased at the time the sub was spawned.

My rationale being 'coir and verm seem fairly contam proof, and are both valued componants of many good cube substrates as well as their merit as casing layers, why not 'layer the sub' as such with a coir/verm top layer at the time of spawning?
Now that the entire sub is colonised right to thr surface, am i unwise to leave it to fruit as is?
The ver limited experience ive had with fruiting an uncased sub was rather poor. :S I'm really unsure.
Any suggestions, comments?
Oh, and I've recently cringed at some of the ignorant s#:t ive said in past, so if I'm way off on any of this, please feel free to say so. I've in recent weeks reminded, when you think you know a bit, is when you're most useless. :lol:
Anyway, I'm learning volumes from the vaults, and trying this monotub (sub: coir, kangaroo poo, small % emu poo, verm) spawned with S.A popcorn spawn. (i made up a coupe of strait 'popcorn verm' (basically cased the spawn which had a fairly high verm content. and used some to spawn two poo subs) One was a water buffalo/donkey/horse mix.

(I just know by the time I can really appreciate using these various poo's i'll be living else where :lol:

Anyway, i know its hard without pics (few days to go before i get my camera back) but i'm really unsure if im gonna fruit her as is, or case her once again. The subs shrunk away from the tubs walls, and i do make an effort to rehydrate it, but i dont want to rush it and have standing water in the tub obviously.

I dunno. Any thoughts would be great :) Its posts from all you guys in the vaults that kept me plugging away at my grows through christmas (distraction works well :lol:)

Take care

Fing :)

#40 Freaky


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Posted 07 January 2007 - 01:46 AM

Okay, I'm gonna prolly have a pretty long response to this :lol:

The substrate or sub, is food, nutritious yumminess that feeds the fungus.
The casing, is non-nutritious, anti-food lol. Think of the sub as the giver, the casing layer as an accessory. The casing isn't needed, but can be beneficial given certain environmental factors that differ from my environment to your environment. You may have a lot of contams floating around your area, or high humidity and different temps. My environment is different, so I may prefer to case the substrate with coir/verm, just verm, peat/verm, whatever. The casing is going to provide certain things for my substrate, extra moisture retention for the substrate if I live in a less humid environment. Its going to protect the sub from direct harm of say heavy watering, contams, etc.
I've fruited lots of substrates with and without casing materials. It would depend on the substrate type, straw I rarely if ever cased. It depended also on the time of year and environment.

Yes, you can spawn to verm and coir and make that a substrate or you can case your substrate with the verm and coir and utilize it as a casing. I can see why you are confused by that because it is a bit conflicting.
The only explanation that I sort out is that it depends on when you want your substrate to fruit.
We know in order to fruit the mycelium we have to:
drop the temp slightly
add humidity
add light
add oxygen, fresh air.
When you spawn, you are still incubating it and letting it feed, keeping it warm, dark, building co2 with minimal air exchange. When you case, you initiate pinning and fruit bodies by saying, here, breath, and have some light and humidity too. This is why we case loose and airy too, so then you have your fruitbodies.

Another factor you need to consider,
you have an interesting substrate mix, and if you haven't tested a strain to see how well if fruits from certain foods it may not want to fruit from the food you fed it. It could be too rich, too tasty. Did you check the PH of it?
You can also case anytime before it pins. If you see a lot of water sitting on the colonized substrate, I'd suggest casing only because the humidity is causing the water to pool on the substrate and you don't want that pooled water to harbor nasty contams. The casing will soak it in.

Sorry for the long explanation and it may not even make sense :lol:
:rasta: I posted under the influence again hahahahh.

Others will give you shorter better answers :lol: Just felt like rambling about it :) Best of luck with your project!

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