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G2G (popcorn) and new fishtank F.C pics. [AUS]


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#41 panaeolus

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 04:17 AM

hey man

nice to see ur post,i agree with freaky

some enviroments dont even need casing

#42 yerbaadam

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 06:08 AM

Casings can really help your primordia reach maturity with protection from competitors, and by keeping the moisture and gas levels balanced. The casing can allow ENOUGH moisture, retaining it when it is not needed and acting like a ressevoire when it is needed. In some cases, like PAN strain primordia CAN NOT DEVELOPE without a casing layer.

Hope that helped you my man. Nice to see you around. I miss yer old avatar with the surgical mask.


BiG hUgS>> your friend and servant, nAscAr denDriTE duDLEy

#43 Guest_DaGoon_*

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 06:38 AM

the only mushrooms ive had grow, grow AROUND green puffy contam.

did some one say contam?

When you use a casing.. use basically utilize a mushrooms natural habitate..
you go outside and (sometimes) the air is so fresh not many contams hang aroung.. (coastal regions aka cubie home)
they basically survive in the space that we curtious fungi fiends provide..!! good to see you fing hows it been?

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 06:42 AM

I feel if you cant use your sub as spawn.. than its best to mix with coir..(pause, IN RL, these things take time : ) ) THEN case.. STILL.. casing is alive and well.. the earth does it natural.. just read the earth and things wont be as confusing.. Maybe : /

#45 fingers

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 06:52 AM

Thanks for the responses guys,

amd I'm guessing i didnt explain well enough. I dont think i disagreed with anything you said freaky, I'm either not looking hard enough, or looking too hard.
My point really is this. If a 'substrate' is our source of nutrition, and a 'casing layer' is primarily for retention of moisture (and is supposed to be non-nutritious) why is coir so often discussed as an ideal addition to a casing layer. (which i agree with).
What i was thinking most of, was layering a substrate so as to have low nutrition and high water retention (coir/verm) as a 'layer' added at the time of spawning your sub.
I like adding some amount of coir to my sub regardless, but I'm wondering if a seperate layer added (as i did with my monotub) that is that 'low nutrition/high humidity coir/verm mix' does that not then become a part of the sub, rather then a casing layer (in the strictest sense).
Maybe i just cant verbalise it in the correct terminology. I've just done a lot of thinking, and thought 'casings that consist of coir ARE nutritious to a degree, and are also less prone to contams. Why lay this coir/verm mix on your sub only when fully colonised. Wouldnt it be logical to have a semi high coir content (verm/coir) layer.

Were it a totally non nutritious layer, i'd agree 100% that it's a casing layer regardless, but the coir just seems far too tastey to myc for me to not see it as a definate and valued componant of a sub. (especially because of its low likelyhood of contamination.

Like i said though, maybe I'm way off. I'm glad to see my instinct to add a casing layer to by uncased subs earlier today was right Freaky. Thanks for that.
Its amazing how effective your gut feeling can be.


Oh and btw, dont ask me how, but i managed to save about 50% of my popcorn by removing the contamed portions like a cancer, and misting it with a weak bleach water mixture.
I know it makes no sense, and it sooo should be contamed, but I'm about 90% sure it's fine. I tried the same procedure with one of the other jars, but i suspect this one was sheer fluke luck that i managed to get every last nasty out.
I guess only time will tell. Pics are a few days off guys. (BTW, a layer of rockwool in the bottom of a jar of popcorn does work, and in a sense is better tgeb verm as you can view the corn without the impaired view the verm causes when shaken through the jar.)
I find adding a sterile, none nutritious and sterile componant like 10-30% verm (or this first effort with rockwool).
Ive also used it for a casing material, i cant make any statement either way as it was a second flush (tiny/low food) casing.
I tried an experiment with a pinch of colonised popcorn wrapped in a sheath of rockwool thatd been soaked in a honey/karo mix, and then wrung out to an ideal humidity.
At this stage, id say (short of the application with spawn jars) cubes dont particularly like rockwool as a primary element to a sub.

Then again, karo/honey and rockwool was asking a bit much perhaps. The casing was far more promising. (though the fibres of the rockwool were laced through a lower section of the stem that would usually be safe to consume. (fragments of rockwool i dont know about :S)

Anyway, thanks for the input guys. I did add some of my coir/verm casing to the popcorn sub casings. (they're starting to fruit now).
My monotub.... I'm still unsure of.

Take care all, and thanks for the advice, suggestions etc freak. :)

Fing

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 07:13 AM

Hip has said, time and time again, plus other members, that when adding coir "40 percent to 60 percent vermaculite" allows the case to hold wayer "better" than coir alone (this is where you answered you own question.. since coir is so nutritious its best to drown it out with verm.. but still utilize the coirs water absorbing (and releasing)
POWERS

#47 fingers

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 07:19 AM

damn goon n yerba :)

That was quick! :P i think i type too slow or talk too much (or both) :)
I gotta say hey, im getting the vibe most people are pro-casing, and i couldnt agree more.
I automatically cased all but 1 of my small glad tub casing trays, and really am not to fond of the idea of trying open air again. (had bad results last time).
I guess I'm just really trying to break down in my own head why certain foods are more or less prone to contams. If theres any merrit to the concept i have with using low nutrition 'substances' like coir or pete even as pre-casing casings.
I guess thatd be the best way to describe the idea, pre-casing.
Maybe I'm just missing something, maybe the coir/verm layer during early incubation wouldnt offer a higher level of contam protection.

I guess I'm just thinking outloud, and hoping some of u more knowledgable guys might be able to shed some light on this one.
I mean, ultimately, I'll do whatever works, and what the best recommend is way more then good enough for me.
I'd just really like to understand better. Cos the way i understand it, (technically). The moment your casing has some nutritional content, it iwill in a sense be part of your sub. (unless its zero nutrition, like many hydroponic media, verm, rockwool, perlite etc).

I think i need to get some pete moss and try a little work with pete as a casing or componant of a casing mixture.

Oh, lol and he avatar with the hooded plastic poncho and painters mask. Its still around :p
When i do my supercake inspired PF's I'll use a tyvek chemical suit and the standard $2 painters masks. The pic should be just as amusing. (not that i see why it amused so many dudes :lol: doesnt everyone turn themselves into a giant plastic covered falic person for the day? :P

I'm really pleased i can get these suits free or dirt cheap now :D
In my fully tiled (walls n all) small bathroom with a shower, and a still box inside it (all thoroughly sterilised with hot water, bleach etc.)
I'm even more confident now my work will be as sterile as it can be without the benefit of a flow hood. (If i build it.... cubes will come) :D

Anyway, i talk way too much when I'm stoned. I might find a more cheery avatar. I wont even go into the meaning behind that one :p

Fingers :) (thanks again dudes, and sorry if anyones responded during me typing this 1 :)

#48 fingers

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 07:23 AM

Hip has said, time and time again, plus other members, that when adding coir "40 percent to 60 percent vermaculite" allows the case to hold wayer "better" than coir alone (this is where you answered you own question.. since coir is so nutritious its best to drown it out with verm.. but still utilize the coirs water absorbing (and releasing)
POWERS


I agree 110%. thats why im thinking it has merit as a coating over a more contam prone spawned sub. Maybe I'm just way off though.

My main point is, I'm not fisagreeing with a single comment made. Everyone's brought up points i either knew and agreed with then, or didnt eactly know, but make perfect sense and i agree with now.

I guess I'm just unable to explain what i mean (or it makes so little sense nobody understands me :lol:

Its cool. No stress. and i definately agree with ya goon (and everyone else in this thread for that matter).

Thanks for the input guys. Maybe im too stoned :lol:

Fing

#49 Guest_DaGoon_*

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 07:55 AM

no worries mate, at all!

#50 Hippie3

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:04 AM

What point is there in fussing over 'do you or do you not case a colonised sub'. I really, really dont understand. Is it that the surface of the sub is too dry and wont fruit well by the time its ready to fruit? and the casing gives it that fresh light microclimate to initiate that growth?


casings do promote a little better pinning action,
something that adding a bit of coir to the casing mix improves even more.
but
these days
the primary function of a casing is water.
as i see it, there are basically two paths-
you can forget casing and allow overlay and just dunk to provide water
OR
you can add a casing layer that can be misted to provide water,
eliminating any need to dunk.
either wy it's primarily about
how to get more water in there when needed,
you can't really mist overlaid/uncased subs, water just runs off.
and you can't really dunk a casing without destroying it .
so choose a path...

#51 Guest_DaGoon_*

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 09:36 AM

nah ive skipped the pete.. ive switch to a lime mist..

#52 Guest_greysRDbest_*

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:51 AM

this was areally informative thread for me....ive seen the term overlay bandied about and finally looked it up in the glossary. and thanks for quoting me dagoon...lol

#53 BuckarooBanzai

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 05:52 PM

Ouch, man. Mondo harsh. The annoying things all seem to kind of stack up on me, too.

At least it sounds like the tub might flourish!

#54 Freaky

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 10:22 PM

Fingers, glad you reached a decision on whats best for you and your subs :)

To answer some of your questoions. Casing after spawning would most likely contam the substrate, spawning means we are feeding the mycelium to build the substrate. Casing provides a fruiting environment for that sub. Like Hippie said, to provide a way for water and moisture, a micro-climate as some call it. To layer coir in your sub, means you just made a layer that is going to be eaten through to get to the food substrate up above it and below it.

Coir is commonly used in mixes for its fiberous properties. You've felt it, its loose and airy and easy for the mycelium network to move through. That is why it works well in casings and substrates. I've done straight coir projects, and from experience, they don't turn out as nicely as when the coir is mixed with other ingredients.

Its nice you are trying to understand it, and you will. I found keeping a journal in the beginning and writing notes and things I noticed helped me understand why certain things I did failed, or slightly worked, or worked great.

Keep up the good work!
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#55 fingers

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 11:46 PM

casings do promote a little better pinning action,
something that adding a bit of coir to the casing mix improves even more.
but
these days
the primary function of a casing is water.
as i see it, there are basically two paths-
you can forget casing and allow overlay and just dunk to provide water
OR
you can add a casing layer that can be misted to provide water,
eliminating any need to dunk.
either wy it's primarily about
how to get more water in there when needed,
you can't really mist overlaid/uncased subs, water just runs off.
and you can't really dunk a casing without destroying it .
so choose a path...


What are your thoughts on scratching? perhaps even scratching away (removing) some degree of overlaid coir rich casings perhaps? Too much stress?
I've just seen and done my own coir vs verm casing experiments, and love the coirs tendency to initiate happy mycelium. The fact that its low food and less prone to contams also makes me fond of it. I'd just be careful using too much of it in a sub (too low in food IMHO), but great in casing layers.
The high tendency to overlay is the one thing that frustrates me about coir. Thats why I've been experimenting with ideas on avoiding overlay. (adding small wells in a casing, either hollow, or full of strait sterile verm and using a syringe to suck out excess water). I tried casing with rockwool, (not too good i think at this stage).
I dunno, maybe its as simple as pete? I reeeeally should grab even a small bag and give pete/verm a shot perhaps. Whats pete like in terms of overlay?
I remember it being a handi substitute as a hydromonic media (as it's fairly PH nutral and stable also). It allways worked well in that aplication, but I've yet to see it interact with mycelium.

Oh, BTW, the monotub is fruiting, the popcorn/verm sub (coir/verm cased) casings are fruiting. Only thing that seems slow is my bag. I made up a bag with a tyvek filter patch, and a plastic tube covered with tyvek and cable tied (rahter then polyfil).

For some reason that things colonising far far slower then the monotub or casings. Seems the Aussie emblem (emu and kangaroo) do have some potential as myco friends :)

As for how vigourous the fruiting, thats yet to be seen. Humidity is high, temps are ideal. I think they should do well if they're going to do well. (if u know what i mean).

Freaky, i dunno buddy. I'll tell you what i did, and explain my thinking. It might make it easier for you to understand my point.

I had several jars of colonised popcorn S.A spawn. six 700ml jars (i think thats about a pint and a half each jar, but dont quote me on that).
I had my pasturised poo, and a couple bags of P.C'd coir and verm. In my make shift still box, in my semi sterilised shower, in a tiled semi sterilsied bathroom in a tyvek chem suit i mixed the spawn, with the bags of coir/verm, and poo.
They'd all been allowed to cool. Stored in bleach wiped tubs. (the black tubs i have i often use for small semi sterile storage). I was very careful to keep all componants at the right humidity, and i mixed it as it appears in the older photo. In two channels. My thinking being there would be better drainage should i over water.
(getting off track).
After i mixed and devided the spawned sub, i added about an inch of the sterile coir/verm mix. Not so much intending it to be a casing for humdity, but more as a (light food) layer of the sub, that is perhaps less prone to contam then the other componants of the sub.
So in a sense, it's still a casing layer, i dont know. In a way i kinda feel like the fact that coir is in fact a food source (be it light in nutrition) its still in a sense not purely a casing (like pure verm, which is purely moisture retaining and non nutritional).
Verms heated expanded mineral, where as coir is organic plant matter (food for cubies).
Am i just looking at it too hard perhaps?

I dunno, but i'm learning a little every day.

Thanks heaps for the comments, suggestions and advice :)

The Fing
I've added many tyvek windows now.

#56 fingers

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:04 PM

Hey guys,
I really wish i hadnt put that cam down again. Ah well, i'll have it back next week. Even my old cam has no batterys, so these are webcam shots (taken with a crappy webcam at that). So plz doint expect much from these pics :eusa_shif
Posted Image
thats one of the banks of the monotub.
Posted Image
large or resided down look better u think? eh
Posted Image
Posted Image
The last two shots are popcorn/verm sub, cased with a verm/coir casing. (all S.A)
The webcam wouldnt reach the fish tank terrarium, so the casings in there will have to wait. (theyre not yet pinning, but the myc is breaking through a huge percentage of the surface area of all the casings.
Soo, there might be a little light at the end of this rainbow. If this monotub fruits even half as well as Fahts, I'll be extatic.
I'm also gonna have to really get to studying cloning seriously again. If not the biggun pictured, some other nice boomer will be my first experiment with cloning.
I think i'll read as many teks as i can find, but pick one that suits me and my materials, and stick to it. I find when i try to mix n match, thats when i sometimes confuse teks n such.
Anyway, sorry the pics are so crumy. I wanted to show off my first little boomers grown in a poo sub. (first successful casings too :) )
As for the bag, still yet to be determined. If this one bag is any indication of the standard time a bag should take to colonise, i dunno.
take care guys,
Fing

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#57 suckerfree

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:16 PM

So the pins in that pic are growing on roo poo? hehe I don't know why but I like that.
I also like your gear, all your growing equipment looks ... cool... crazy jars, polycarbonate sheeting, and jet black tubs... special clothes...

Keep up the good work.... fancy pants.
:)

#58 fingers

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 12:34 AM

lol thanks S.free :)

The top two images (same image) are the ones in the monotub with the kangaroo (and a small % emu), so in a sense, its the monotub of the aussie coat of arms :P

Them tubs are pretty damn handy for this hobby :) I'm in luv with em. You know how some tubs, the plastic shatters unless you cut really carefully or with a supersharp blade?
These things are great like that. They're rigid enough, but so easy to cut (free of them 'whooops 2 inch cut is now 12 inch) situations. :)

They're soo much cheapr going to the factory too. $12 for the tub, $4 for the lid, and theyre almost shatterproof. :) i say go the stack n nests! :headbang: (retail for around $40 if memory serves)

At $15 AUD a tub with lid, I vision one day wayyyyy down the line stacking em head high (fahtster style :) but i wont be doin any large scale projects after the recent heat of course.

Anyway ive been now told i am not only able to talk under water, but 'underwater with marbles in my mouth'. (maybe its an aussie thang, who knows :P)

See ya Sfree, cant wait to see the mono and casings at their prime. :)
Pics soon. :)

Fing

#59 fingers

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 03:49 AM

damn that was a scattered post!

more sleep less bongs. :)

Ah well,

fing

#60 Guest_DaGoon_*

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 04:06 AM

Wow that was a huge post!! sounds like things are going good

with my experience with 50/50 coir verm and 50/50 peat verm
they are about the same, they both have the potencial to overlay
where as you decrease the ratio to 40 or 30 and things are better
Although, i dont think that coir fights off contams like you say..
were as peat might be better at doing so, (more acidic) but dont hold me to that

i have scratched, not scraped, a casing layer that was starting to become overlayed, that was holding water right before pinning was supposed to start.. with great effect. Just a light scratch

And it seems that between the popcorn poo and coir mix, there is plenty of food, you basically did make a casing layer with the extra one inch.. the only thing ive ever had a problem with, with that, is i put an inch of case material down, and the fruits seemed to have wanted to pop up before the casing was completely (but not overlayed of course)|
colonized, and it seemed to have messed up the flush.

And i really cant tell you anything about the bag,
maybe send sandman or someone a pm




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