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juicing sclerotia


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#1 tricktek

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 06:10 PM

I have been dreaming an idea for several years now that may prove interesting. I own a Champion carrot juicer and am considering juicing sclerotia from Mexicana A, that is, when I get some petri plates of it grown out. The implications are many fold, such as, if nothing else, I will have taken the majority of the H2O out of the sclerotia, making it easier to dehydrate. At this point I will have a jug of the liquid and a bucket of the much dryer product. I don't know which one of the two would be "active". Does anybody know the answer to this? Which ever one it is (prolly the solid leftover) I would try extractions or tea with. Ultimately I would like to potentiate my final product either through doing extractions or by nutritional means while still growing. I have in the past encapsulated dry blended sclerotia with mediocre results, ie, my cubies have always been more potent. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. tricktek :pirate:

#2 TVCasualty

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 08:06 PM

Seems to me there might well be some activity to the juice. I'd definitely try both.

Since potency usually decreases with drying, and sclerotia are so dense, it seems like drying them would decrease their potency (potentially). They are already very dense, so after drying the superficial moisture off 'em I've just put them in the fridge at that point. They've never lasted long enough for me to see them exhibit any sign of rotting (they get eaten of course), so why not just keep them as is? (Especially on petri plates; there won't be very much mass to deal with, and I'd think you'd want to hold on to as much potency as possible...) Now, if you're trying to test the concept, that's different- give it a go and let us know!

#3 shobimono

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 08:28 PM

I dont' think your sclerotia extraction is going to be any different than a regular mushroom extraction.
If the goodies are in the liquid, you are facing the same problems that people extracting with alcohol will, and in fact you will face more because you wouldn't even have alcohol to slow down the breakdown of the psilocybin.
You face the same thing if the psilocybin is left in the pulp. It would quickly oxidize, even moreso if you tried to dry it. It would kinda be like taking handfuls of cubies and squeezing the shit out of them, then throwing them in a bowl. That would be your starting point.

#4 PsyEntist

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 03:51 PM

*yawn* Breakdown of psilocybin in liquid? Oxidation?

I've boiled tea for hours with no real "breakdown" of Psilocybin. I suppose some anti oxidant like vitamin C will prevent or diminish any oxidation.

Dried mushrooms seem to keep pretty well, too.

I've dried sclerotia for a day, then deep freezed, kept for seven years before I ran out.

But the petri dish method....well, sucks. Buy some jars, some rye grass seed, and the pressure cooker.

Maybe you all meant psilocin?

#5 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 05:42 PM

It just occurred to me that the juicer could be a great way to squeeze the very last bit of alcohol out of the mushrooms when doing the Everclear extraction thing. Now I just need to figure out how to talk my friend into letting me put alcohol-soaked mushrooms through his juicer...

#6 tricktek

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 04:10 AM

thanks for the advice psyentist, but I think there has been a miscommunication. I'm would be growing in mycobags, I have a 941 AA, and am using the petri dishes to start spores (as soon as I have a print that actually germinates, waiting for yet another replacement). I've grown in jars before and am tired of washing all the glass and dealing with the occasional broken jar. Since H2o is the most polar solvent, it seems that a typical tea extraction would work as long as the evaporation of the tea down to sludge worked like an alcohol extraction does. hmmmmm....... then encapsulate the sludge. I would really like to potentiate the sclerotia buzz without having to eat an ounce of the stuff. So I am suggesting the idea of juicing the fresh sclerotia (which shreds the stuff like we would shrooms before making tea) and making a batch of tea with vitimin C (to prevent oxidation loss of potency) drying tea down to sludge (after filtration) in order to have a more potent final product to encapsulate. Hopefully a gram would actually give me a buzz. I'm not worried about some potential loss of product from doing this, there would be plenty of sclerotia. My post is to see if anyone has experience or suggestions about any of these procedures, understanding that my ultimate desire is to strengthen the product so a gram or two kicks ass. Thanks for any thoughts along these lines.

#7 shobimono

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:58 AM

*yawn* Breakdown of psilocybin in liquid? Oxidation?

I've boiled tea for hours with no real "breakdown" of Psilocybin. I suppose some anti oxidant like vitamin C will prevent or diminish any oxidation.

Dried mushrooms seem to keep pretty well, too.

I've dried sclerotia for a day, then deep freezed, kept for seven years before I ran out.

But the petri dish method....well, sucks. Buy some jars, some rye grass seed, and the pressure cooker.

Maybe you all meant psilocin?


Why would you boil mushroom tea for hours?

#8 Hippie3

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:46 AM

i would bet the 'juice' would be active since it's mostly water
and magic is water soluble .
it'd be good to drink it fast as i imagine it'd ferment.
that would also minimize any oxidation.
then dry your pulp, likely still active albeit less so.

#9 Soliver1

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 08:43 PM

IME, stones lose potency big-time once they dry out, and if you grind them and then dry, they're almost useless. I'd probably grind 'em up (or run through a juicer if that's your bag) and then do a standard everclear extraction.... whenever you dry out an extract, strange things happen - I'm not sure your reduced sludge will be very potent, but an extract kept in alcohol keeps for a very long time :)

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#10 tricktek

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:59 PM

That was exactly the type of experiential advice I was hoping to receive, this helps direct my efforts without wasting my time and product. I have grown considerable amounts of the sclerotia before finding this site, dried them, ground them in blender, and encapsulated them. I think Soliver hit upon why I found them to be so weak. Perhaps the drying and grinding isn't the best path to take. My replacement print is on the way and I look forward to trying these new approaches. Thanks for the advice, suggestions, and sharing your experience. Mycotopia is a fabulous site, glad I found it. :bow:

#11 Soliver1

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 08:09 PM

I've always kept my stones in the jars until I'm ready to consume them - if properly sealed, they'll sit for a VERY long time (over a year IME) and still be fresh upon opening.

:)

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#12 slacker

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 04:53 PM

What I did with my stones is I ground them up and made some tea, strained and boiled it down a bit. Didn't really want to boil it down but I got it into what I figured would be a dose per ice cube. Poured the liquid into a tray and froze it. I put them in jars for later use, should last years.

#13 Soliver1

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 10:13 AM

That's certainly a good way to go about it! Have you tried the resulting product yet?

:)

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#14 slacker

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 07:09 PM

Yes but I'm not sure of what to think. I had some stones I grew on wheat, brown rice and white rice. The white rice were way less potent than the other substrates. Anyway I blended them up, boiled them down, and froze. I think they lost potency but it's certainly a convenient way of doing things. This is how I prepare my Ayahuasca too.
I haven't really had time to trip with the stones but the taste is certainly the worst of any shroom variety. Mine have a very metallic taste that really turns me off. I don't mind Salvia or Aya, but there's something about the stones:puke: .

#15 phungus

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 04:43 PM

Hello all! I have been viewing these forums for some time but have only just registered.

I have a question concerning sclerotia forming species (psilocybe atlantis, in particular): Is it possible to use the sclerotia to colonize new substrates? I shall be growing the sclerotia on a brown rice substrate from a (purchased) spore syringe, but am unsure about carrying-on the growing process once the sclerotia have formed.

My thoughts were that i could select the largest sclerotia, remove a segment from its center, under sterile conditions, and use this to colonize new substrate jars. Is this possible? I assume grain-to-grain transfer can be done, but is there a way to select only the best-growing "strain"? (if that's the right word).


I suppose i could add a casing to grow the mushrooms and proceed as normal, but i was wondering whether this was necessary. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, i have been unable to find such information. Any help greatly appreciated! :kiss:

#16 Babo911

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:33 PM

Is it possible to use the sclerotia to colonize new substrates?


Yes

My thoughts were that i could select the largest sclerotia, remove a segment from its center, under sterile conditions, and use this to colonize new substrate jars. Is this possible?


Yea but I would suggest that you first clone it on agar

I suppose i could add a casing to grow the mushrooms and proceed as normal, but i was wondering whether this was necessary.


For atlantis to fruit you need a casing layer. 4:1 peat / calcium carbonate for your casing. Note: You want real calcium carbonate not crushed oyster shell for the simple fact that crushed oyster takes too long to break down and is used as a long term buffer not short.





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