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MAO Inhibitors


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#1 Xerces

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 09:28 AM

This comes from another thread. Since I'm looking for a higher 'high' or maybe some OEV (open eye visuals) someone has recommended MAOI which I heard of before, which is present in several ways.

MAOI's in my opinion are NOT just a way to get more bang for your buck, that combination is a very potent teacher. Only take it if your ready to learn a powerful lesson. That being said order some Syrian Rue from bouncingbearbotanicals.com or a similar ethnobotanical supplier.
Grind the seeds in a coffee grinder and consume around 3.5 grams 15 minutes before you consume your mushies and hold on :)


dark chocolate is an easy thing to get ahold of that contains the MAOI you would be looking for.
i like to grind up my doses and mix them with melted dark chocolate, some people like a lot of chocolate, some like not so much...
helps with the taste, i cant stand chewing cubensis.
MAOIs in my opinion really do make a diffrence in a trip.
you should try it...
:amazed:


I'm trying not to have to order something from other countries, so how do the rest of you feel about dark chocolate? is there a more effective MAOI that could be bought around? Perhaps some kind of medication.

#2 condo_pygmy

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 11:09 AM

Peganum harmala (Syrian Rue) is rich in MAOI, here's a few extraction links:

http://forums.ayahua...pic.php?t=10766

http://forums.ayahua...ght=hcl peganum
{This tells you how to remove the unwanted fats & gums}

:thumbup:

#3 Xerces

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:07 PM

Ok. Finding a Rue plant could be just the thing. I didn't know Syrian Rue was a common plant known as Ruda here in Argentina. I thought it was some kind of hard-to-get/expensive substance.

This tree is in my gfs house, she says the Rue plant has a much stronger smell than that tree, but it looks so much like a Rue:
too large

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#4 condo_pygmy

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:37 PM

Another possibility for you is the Banisteriopis Caapi vine,
it grows all over SA, you shouldn't have any trouble finding it...:eusa_thin

#5 chimp

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:09 PM

Another possibility for you is the Banisteriopis Caapi vine,
it grows all over SA, you shouldn't have any trouble finding it...:eusa_thin


Really?..could u explain more regarding preparation and dosage..I have a bunch of B. Caapi. Was getting ready to order some Rue but if I can use what I have it would be much more convenient.

#6 condo_pygmy

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 03:18 PM

I have only dabbed with the Harmala Rue extracts,
caapi vine has less harmaline but more harmine alkaloids :eusa_thin
the harmala dose ratio is about 10 to 1: rue / caapi.
here's Erowid's info:

http://www.erowid.or...rue_info1.shtml
&:
http://www.erowid.or...teriopsis.shtml

#7 tregar

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 07:43 PM

The two links Condo gave above to the peganum extractions are good to go. 1 gram of the said hcl extracted material was used quite extensively by forum members sync and meteor at ayahuasca.com. Some at the forum have said that b.caapi, peganum harmala, or pure harmine hcl are better teachers than moclobemide:

http://forums.ayahua...ght=moclobemide

I currently prefer to use pure crystalline harmine hcl at a dosage of 170 to 190mg, but it is about $8 a dose (about the same expense as a brewed caapi dose). In a few weeks I'll be combining it with muriatic hcl brewed and filtered Hawaiian psychotria evaporated extracts.

From 'Ayahuasca' by Ralph Metzner:

Average amounts, and ranges, of body weights, amounts of tea ingested, and total amounts of alkaloids consumed by fifteen volunteers during the pharmacokinetic phase of the Hoasca Project. These results are presented in terms of kilograms (kg) body weight, milligrams (mg) of alkaloid, and milliliter (ml) of tea ingested:

Averages

Body weight -- 74 kg
tea -- 148 ml
harmine -- 252 mg **(major component in caapi, along with THH)
harmaline -- 30 mg **(only trace amounts found in caapi -- not enough to be active)
tetrahydroharmine -- 159 mg **(this is a very mild serotonin reuptake inhibitor)
dmt -- 36 mg
----------------

Ranges

body weight 58 - 90 kg
tea -- 120 to 180 ml
harmine -- 204 to 306 mg
harmaline -- 24 to 36 mg
tetrahydroharmine -- 128 to 193 mg
dmt -- 29 to 43 mg

-----------------------------------------------------

I have taken a dose of pure harmine hcl over 200 mg by itself without anything else (but would only use about 160 to 190 mg when using with dmt in the future) and had closed eye visions of scenes related to nature and/or culture including animals, architecture, gardens, and people...but the visions though highly detailed were colored in dark greens and blues--they were not bright at all--dmt if added would no doubt add "the light". I do not recommend taking penalty doses of just the maoi to obtain visions (higher than 200 or 250 mg of pure harmine, or large doses of caapi, peganum, etc.) as this also results in sea-sickness when moving and loss of appetite--all lasting 4 to 6 hours or so. When the correct dose of maoi is taken (but there will be no visions without adding the dmt or plant-containing dmt) there will be no sea-sickness, no loss of appetite, or any significant loss of balance--just relaxed sedated feelings like being in a hot tub.

And a few tidbits of wisdom concerning the use of pure harmine hcl (composes avg of 69% alkaloid content of a caapi brew):

Sync "in a dream" used 250mg harmine hcl and appoximately 20 cc of tea. Sync quote (2001): "Taken 20 minutes after the harmine and with a small piece of chocolate cake. The results were spectacular to say the least. I believe that taking the harmine in closer proximity to the tea, and having some fat containing food directly on top of the harmine, may have been a significant factor in the power of the experience."

GodofEmptiness quote (2002): "My delusional brother's pit bull has access to pure harmine and harmaline, and found that for his weight, 120 kilos, (it's a big dog), approx 200mg of pure harmine is enough to provide the needed effect and a spectacular dream -- the dream was excellent -- This dreamer would recommend Harmine HCL if available to other dreamers."

Sync quote (2001): "The harmine seems very gentle and clean, far easier on the body and neurons than either of the natural plant sources. The anti-depressant effect with pure harmine is an order of magnitude greater than rue or the vine, and the spirit, well, to say it was present would be an understatement. There also seems to be a greater ability to experience the depths of emotions in a healthy way. I think it may be time for some to concider that the spirit of the plants is not confined to just the plants..."

Delysid quote (2001): "I have used pure harmine in a brew before. The thing is that I did not use a purified psychotria extract just a viridis tea so there was still a ton of sludgy garbage in it. I still received nausea but it was noticably less then with my usual caapi/peganum harmala seed brew, probably due to the lack of unneeded maoi's. As far as the effects go, the only difference that I noticed was the taste...the effects were the same as if I used the vine. Thus I doubt that THH nad hamaline contribute much to the brews effects."

Mckenna "The Invisible Landscape" (1994): "Graph # 7 from Smythies and Antun, "Binding of Tryptamines and Allied Compounds to Nucleic Acid," Nature, 223: p. 1062, Sep. 6. 1969. shows that there is not much difference in the reduction in fluorescence of harmaline (-42) and tetrahydroharmine (-38) in reaction with DNA or RNA, but harmine with its bulkier ring system appears to bind better to DNA (-90). Smythies's model is supported by evidence that 5HT and many of its analogs, including LSD-25, N, N-DMT, and harmine can bond to DNA, RNA, or both."

Food for thought: Jeremy Narby has an off-beat notion that intelligent interactive video messages have been recorded on DNA by some higher intelligence and that we all see the same things because we are all one at the level of DNA.

#8 Mycorama

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 08:07 PM

Psilocybin is metabolized mostly in the liver where it becomes psilocin. It is broken down by the enzyme monoamine oxidase. MAO inhibitors have been known to sustain the effects of psilocybin for longer periods of time


http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Psilocybin

as for the perfect source of the MAOI im not too sure, Rue is nice but im pretty sure that 70% dark chocolate has enough of the MAOI in it to get you where you would like to be.
just give it a shot man, eat a stick of dark chocolate with your shrooms next time, or even make some shroom chocolates.
they seem to make a diffrence for me atleast...

#9 Xerces

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 10:08 PM

Ok, I gave it a try!
I had a small dose (unkown amount) of wild psilocybe mushrooms, mixed with some hot melt dark chocolate ( 60grams ) with a little bit of milk so it get a little bit liquid and not burnt.
[image removed]
The Aguila Chocolate used
[image removed]
[image removed]
I'll tell you about the results l8er!
edit: LOL!! The "vengo" word on the label of his shirt was a "YA VENGO" or "be right back" sign I had hang on my door when he came.

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Edited by Sidestreet, 06 September 2015 - 08:07 PM.


#10 Mycorama

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 10:22 PM

have fun guys!
:rasta:

#11 Xerces

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 10:32 PM

Im the only one having them, my friend just left

#12 Xerces

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 03:01 PM

Well... what can I say... Tasty! Except for those bits I burned when I melted the chocolate, that wasn't tasty.

There was a big scary thunderstorm last night, just as the previous time I had mushrooms. I wasn't certain about eating the mushrooms somehow, but I had fastened for 24 hours. So I checked a moon calendar online -neved had before- and it showed that precisely on that night the 19 the moon was gone completely out (20 is new moon).
So whatever I made my melted chocolate with grinded shrooms. No bad taste of mushrooms, but I burned some of the chocolate -yuk-.

The effects: I think the fastening and chocolate made their work.
Lots of laughter at first / as always. I layed on the bed with the black light on and closed my eyes, my cat was right next to me just grownling, kinda make me think of egypt for some reason. Then when I closed my eyes I saw all kinds of mayan/aztec paterns and there I stayed for a while.

I had a lot of deep thoughts about certain things in my life I should change and more importantly why.

Let me say that the chocolate was like a bomb in my 24hour empty stomach, it felt very heavy. Another thing that hadn't happened to me before is that it came a point were I almost had to 'throw' myself around the room to move from one place to the other from the 'drunkness' i was in. It required tremendous power of will just to reach out for a lighter, highly sedated at least physically.

I don't remember what else happened, something with a fire. Maybe I'll tell you later.

I fell asleep

#13 Tahoe58

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 03:54 PM

thats sounds cool....thanks for sharing...:pirate:

#14 chimp

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 04:04 PM

Xerces, Do you usually fast for 24 hours prior to dosing and also was the dosage your usual amount?. I am trying to ascertain what effect the chocolate had, if any

#15 Soliver1

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 04:12 PM

Xerces:

You may want to think more about posting pics of your friend's mug, considering the nature of these boards, it is really a bad idea to post images, etc., that could be used to ID you in the real world and besides, is your amigo aware that he's online?

soliver

#16 Mycorama

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 04:13 PM

ive fasted for up to 12 hours before eating mushrooms, i dont think it makes a diffrence on how high you get, just on how long it takes to kick in.

when i make my chocolates we use a double boiler, one big pot with some water and another pot to go inside the first pot, get the water to boil and turn the heat down.
then you can just throw some chocolate into the second pot and it will melt without getting burnt.

the darker the chocolate the better. i was thinking about trying baking chocolate and some sweetener, maybe make a dark chocolate shroom pudding.
im positive that dark chocolate makes a diffrence in how high you get, people get addicted to chocolate for the exact same reason.
and i really like that you dont have to taste nasty raw mushroom.

#17 Doctor D

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 05:25 PM

Chocolate does NOT contain an MAOI.

Chocolate sometimes appears on lists of foods that people who are taking MAOIs are told to avoid. Not because these foods are MAOIs themselves, but because they interact with MAOIs, having quantities of the substance tyramine, which is metabolized by the enzyme MAO, or because of other drug interactions with MAOIs. Chocolate does not contain tyramine, but it does contain phenylethylamine, which is also metabolized by MAO. Regardless, prepared chocolate is generally considered safe to eat while taking an MAOI unless one eats a very large amount.

If chocolate DID contain an MAOI, it would be listed on all the medical websites as a food you definitely should not take if you are already taking an MAOI. I did a thorough Google search, and the only reference to chocolate being an MAOI was from other people referencing Terence McKenna. I'll bet what he REALLY said was that chocolate weakly interacts with MAOIs. Not that chocolate WAS an MAOI.

If anyone can find any evidence to support the idea that chocolate is a weak MAOI, I'd love to see it.

#18 Xerces

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 05:42 PM

Not sure if chocolate made a difference, but deffinetly 24 hour fastening did made a difference, because days before I had a similar dose, maybe even a bit larger, but with less than 8 hours fasten, and it didn't get as high as yesterday.

#19 Doctor D

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 05:46 PM

Because chocolate contains alkaloids that interact with MAOIs, if chocolate DID contain an MAOI, there would be warning labels on all your chocolate bars warning you not to eat them for fear of having an MAOI reaction!

#20 Doctor D

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 05:53 PM

Well I'll definitely consider using chocolate to help wash down shrooms. I like to ingest mass quantities, however. That could be a lot of chocolate. Not sure if I like the idea of shrooming with several chocolate bars in my tummy...




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