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Buddhism makes more sense than Christianity


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#41 Hippie3

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 11:31 PM

in truth even central core tenets
like the trinity, the resurrection, the god-man, blood sacrifice as atonement
all are found in earlier religions,
the very basis of the 'catholic' [universal] church
is a synthesis of older more primitive religions
dressed up to appeal to a then-contemporary audience.

#42 Doctor D

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 11:45 PM

but im talking more about the kind of hardline dogma that typifies modern christianity.. the "one true god" the "sinners" .. "eternal damnation" .. bible as literal truth... things like this


Maybe to you that typifies modern Christianity; no wonder you feel that Buddhism and Christianity conflict.

Many Buddhists see Jesus as an awakened being, a buddha. When you read Jesus' words in the Bible with this sort of understanding, his words make a lot more sense. There's no conflict.

The core tenet of Christianity is "Love your neighbour as you love yourself". If all Bibles were destroyed tomorrow and this were the only phrase that survived, the whole of Jesus' teachings would have been preserved. And this is damn near identical to the Buddhist concept of "no self".

The differences in the teachings, I suspect, have mainly to do with the context within which Jesus and Siddharta existed. As Hippie said, Jesus borrowed from Judaism and Siddhartha borrowed from Hinduism. How do you teach the concept of "no-self" within the context of a Jewish society in ancient Rome? Like Jesus did, I imagine.

#43 papalion

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 12:41 AM

Hip nails it on the head when he says Christianity is a mash-up of a bunch of native religions, etc. It really explains a lot of the schizophrenia of the religion too.... From the old testament to the holidays we celebrate. Easter! A rabbit? An Egg? What does that has to do with Jesus or anything like that? It's all taken from fertility symbols from older religions... Even the conflict of the wrathful war god YHWH, and all that.. with the peace loving God of Jesus of Nazareth (where they didn't worship a war god.. but a god of peace and the earth)...

In short...

The 'winners' write history. We try to piece together what really happened every day, wading through thick fogs both natural and man-made.

#44 bluefungis182

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 02:03 AM

:eusa_clap interesting thread even thought i am an athesit i respect the views of others who are open minded about there faith.

#45 kukukajoob

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 02:33 AM

There are many different established schools of Buddhist practice, depending on the historic timetable, region, and teaching encompassed.

Religious beliefs can be based on literal [written], theoretical, or actual proof.
Actual proof [experienced benefit, i.e. gaining wisdom, higher life condition, is the best.

I have received actual proof through the study and practice of Nichiren Budddhism since introduced in 1971. The main practice is chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo to the Gohonzon, a specially inscribed Mandala.

Doing so will activate your Buddha nature, whether or not you believe in it!

To learn more, visit this link:

http://nichirenscoff...use.tripod.com/

The primary goal of practicing Nichiren's Buddhism is to bring about World Peace through the achievement of personal enlightenment.

Most of the Japanese samurai "bushido" warrior codes were derivative of Shintoism, an entirely different religion, which was based on emperor worship. The lay members of Nichiren sects were imprisoned during WWII for their opposition to militarism, and their dedication to world peace continues to this day. Generally, Buddhist traditions have remained consistently pacifistic in their orientation, yet some warrior classes did exist in medieval times outside of the actual priesthood.

If you study and practice Buddhism, mysteriously, your ability to embody the finer qualities taught in Christianity [love, mercy, compassion, forgiveness] will be enhanced greatly. This is called a higher life condition, the beginning stages of Enlightenment.

IMO, the dichotomies perceived among major belief systems are exacerbated by fundamentalist fanatics and religious authorities whose intentions are based on a need to control and dominate others rather than manifesting the core of the teaching, ie connection with the Universal Law and Light.

#46 aumbrellaforainydays

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 03:02 AM

wow, maybe i should not have mentioned the samurai. rajajuju i respect your comment about ninjas and the role they played in a shoganate ruled society.

disregarding the talk about the dissimilar perspectives and times, if i had found myself a buddhist living in japan during a violent feudal era i personally would've condoned any justification of violence for means other than for the greater's happiness (i.e. invasion and slavery by the koreans or chinese).

still the fact remains what would you do if you were caught deciding whether to follow your belief and die or follow your belief and live. would your life be meaningful if you had to kill so that you could continue living what you believe is right?

its hard to say because what would you have to lose? after all our minds are only matter and the energy it took to create these beliefs in our minds will be recycled anyway... not carried on as they say to another world or reality

om mani padme hum

#47 kukukajoob

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 06:41 AM

wow, maybe i should not have mentioned the samurai. rajajuju i respect your comment about ninjas and the role they played in a shoganate ruled society.

disregarding the talk about the dissimilar perspectives and times, if i had found myself a buddhist living in japan during a violent feudal era i personally would've condoned any justification of violence for means other than for the greater's happiness (i.e. invasion and slavery by the koreans or chinese).

still the fact remains what would you do if you were caught deciding whether to follow your belief and die or follow your belief and live. would your life be meaningful if you had to kill so that you could continue living what you believe is right?

its hard to say because what would you have to lose? after all our minds are only matter and the energy it took to create these beliefs in our minds will be recycled anyway... not carried on as they say to another world or reality

om mani padme hum


The capacity for violence has always coexisted dualistically with spirituality within each human life. The subjective [inner] world of life always manifests itself in objective [external] reality. Separation of the two is merely the illusion of Self. The inner conflict you describe is reflected in choosing to solve problems with force or wisdom. For example, Gandhi led India to Independence from England through nonviolent resistance, as did ML King in successfully advancing the Civil Rights movement. The Irish violently opposed British domination without success for 700 years. Their ultimate liberation occurred following hunger strikes, civil disobedience, and political negotiation. Bush chose war in Iraq over negotiation, and look at the hornet's nest he kicked!

#48 Vapor

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 09:05 AM

Hi Everyone

I wanted to add this last night. It is an excerpt from Widipedia on the Samurai. I recommend the whole artical but I felt that this part particularly pertained to our conversation.

Philosophy
The philosophies of Buddhism and Zen, and to a lesser extent Confucianism, influenced the samurai culture as well as Shinto. Zen meditation became an important teaching due to it offering a process to calm one's mind. The Buddhist concept of reincarnation and rebirth led samurai to abandon torture and needless killing, while some samurai even gave up violence altogether and became Buddhist monks after realizing how fruitless their killings were. Some were killed as they came to terms with these realizations in the battlefield. The most defining role that Confucianism played in samurai philosophy was to stress the importance of the lord-retainer relationship; this is, the loyalty that a samurai was required to show his lord.
Bushido was a term attached to a samurai "code of conduct" enforced during Edo period by the Tokugawa Shogunate, so that they could control the samurai more easily. Its deceptive simplicity led to countless arguments over its interpretation. Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai by Yamamoto Tsunetomo is a manual of instruction into the way of the samurai. Even as it was published, it received a number of reviews that criticized its strict and impersonal interpretations. If the lord is wrong, for example if he ordered a massacre of civilians, should he observe loyalty to massacre as ordered or should he observe rectitude to let the civilians escape unharmed? If a man had sick parents but committed an unforgivable mistake, should he protect his honour by committing seppuku or should he show courage by living with dishonor and care for his parents?
The incident of 47 Ronin caused debates about the righteousness of the samurai's actions and how bushido should be applied. They had defied the shogun by taking matters into their own hands but it was an act of loyalty and rectitude as well. Finally, their acts were agreed to be rectitude but not loyalty to the shogun. This made them criminals with conscience and eligible for seppuku

Peace and Power
Health, Wealth, and Happiness
May the Bird of Happiness Dump Its Goodies on all of you
God bless and Happy New Year!

#49 Hippie3

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 09:25 AM

hmm, here's some of
what you left out--

...Skilled in mounted combat and archery (kyudo, 弓道), these clan warriors became the emperor's preferred tool for putting down rebellions....
...powerful clans around Kyoto (京都) assumed positions as ministers, and their relatives bought positions as magistrates. To amass wealth and repay their debts, magistrates often imposed heavy taxes, resulting in many farmers becoming landless...
...Originally these warriors were merely mercenaries in the employ of the emperor and noble clans (kuge, 公家), but slowly they gathered enough power to usurp the aristocracy and establish the first samurai-dominated government...
... originally sent to provincial areas for a fixed four year term as a magistrate, the toryo declined to return to the capital when their terms ended, and their sons inherited their positions and continued to lead the clans in putting down rebellions throughout Japan...
...Issues of inheritance caused family infighting as primogeniture became common...
..., invasion of neighboring samurai's territories was common and bickering among samurai was a constant problem ...
...law that the samurai caste became codified as permanent and heritable, and that non-samurai were forbidden to carry weapons, thereby ending the social mobility of Japan...
...They still had the legal right to cut down any commoner who did not show proper respect...
...Despite the Bushido, in practice, samurai could be disloyal and treacherous...



#50 moorglade

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 12:05 PM

haha, owned.

#51 Doctor D

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 12:56 PM

I would ask that anyone interested in Nichiren Buddhism or SGI in particular please Google the words "Nichiren" and "cult" before coming to your informed decision.

I'm not trying to diss Nichiren, SGI, or its various other sects, but there is a lot of negative stuff out there that one should be aware of, and it's not all written by Christian proselytizers trying to convert everyone to Christianity.

Hippie if you feel this message is in error, you may delete it with my apologies.

#52 omnibot

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 01:05 PM

"in truth even central core tenets
like the trinity, the resurrection, the god-man, blood sacrifice as atonement
all are found in earlier religions,
the very basis of the 'catholic' [universal] church
is a synthesis of older more primitive religions
dressed up to appeal to a then-contemporary audience."

Not arguing with this Hip, but I'm interested to know more. Source? What earlier religions were these things found in? Blood sacrifice as atonement is easy... what about the other ones?

#53 p153817

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 01:14 PM

... That's why people fight "holy wars" and slaughter each other over dumb shit.
"Om Tat Sat Nadme Padme Om"


just to let you know...


if by "holy War" you mean Jihad, you should know that the word jihad is far too often trsnslated as "holy war", but in fact the meaning is somewhat different, i bet when you think of jihad you get pic in your mind of osama bin laden and twin towers fallin and what not, but you shold know that the word jihad means "struggle in the path of god" it can be physical but it could also represent people fleeing there country to avoid religoous perseccution, as well as a struggle in the arm sence, but the bottom line is shcolors teach that only defensive wars are true jihads/ "holy wars" if you will, and the reson why people call each others struggle "stupid" is because some religious leaders out there use the Qur' an and other religous text to justify there actions, if you ask the proper athoury, not the bias, but the real, they will tell you that the use of the Qur' an to justify September 11 is simply innacurate, and self sevring. And i think it is becasue of these things that we have so many misunderstanding. I bet when you said stupid holy war you were refering to the west bank and gaza strip, my friend they are fighting over there belifes, both sect have religous affliation with that land, it like saying buddah took baby jesus' crib and used it for fire wood, now Mary is pissed... uh fuck it never mind

#54 Doctor D

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 01:30 PM

if by "holy War" you mean Jihad, you should know that the word jihad is far too often trsnslated as "holy war", but in fact the meaning is somewhat different, i bet when you think of jihad you get pic in your mind of osama bin laden and twin towers fallin and what not, but you shold know that the word jihad means "struggle in the path of god" it can be physical but it could also represent people fleeing there country to avoid religoous perseccution, as well as a struggle in the arm sence, but the bottom line is shcolors teach that only defensive wars are true jihads/ "holy wars" if you will, and the reson why people call each others struggle "stupid" is because some religious leaders out there use the Qur' an and other religous text to justify there actions, if you ask the proper athoury, not the bias, but the real, they will tell you that the use of the Qur' an to justify September 11 is simply innacurate, and self sevring. And i think it is becasue of these things that we have so many misunderstanding. I bet when you said stupid holy war you were refering to the west bank and gaza strip, my friend they are fighting over there belifes, both sect have religous affliation with that land, it like saying buddah took baby jesus' crib and used it for fire wood, now Mary is pissed... uh fuck it never mind


You make a lot of assumptions. If you had bothered to read his post instead of latching onto the words "holy war" to inject the discussion of Islam into the conversation, you would have seen he was referring to people fighting over religion in general. Like the Crusades. Like ANY war over religion. Nothing in his post indicated he was talking about Islam in particular.

I think Vapor has demonstrated enough writing skill to say with confidence that if he had meant to use the word "jihad", he would have done so.

#55 Vapor

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 01:41 PM

Hi Hippie!
Didn't leave it out...I recommended the entire artical. This is the same shit that their counter parts were doing throughout midevil and feudal Europe. It was the chime of the times, the way the world conducted itself in those days. You didn't get a pork chop at the supermarket. Somebody had to kill the pig. If you had to swim with the sharks you needed to be one. Note, there was a mechanism by which it was possible for a serf to become a Samuri and this did occur occassionally.

When Commodore Perry's fleet enterd Japan the world may have laughed at what they thought was primitive. That was JINGOISTIC IGNORANCE.
The Japanese had already attained accomplishments as not achieved in the West.
They were relatively well nourished as a population and not addicted to a meat based diet. They bathed. Hygiene was a national fetish. Their textiles were exquisite and their metallurgy astounding. They were far more literate and educated than the average Westerner of the time. Intensive meditation and the benifits thereof were common. Initially, they disdained the use of firearms considering such employment dishonorable. Their ranks contained some of the best horsemen that ever saddled up.
Politically they were a match for the most Macheavellian of the Europeans or Americans and, in terms of military strategy, they compared favorably with any force then on Earth although their attitude about guns hurt those that would not employ them. When imperialism sailed into Japan they gave it a run for its money as they had been doing with the Portugese influence even before this. As was, and remains typical, the tendency for Western invaders is to underestimate the indigenous population...like in Viet Nam, Somalia, Afganistan, and Iraq. The attitude that the Japanese were inferior was based upon untenable ignorance and concepts of racial superiority. Inferior according to whose standards?
If you want some perverted mother fuckers let's talk about the Romans? But, alas, perverted by whose atandards? Mine in this case.
Further, you know who reflects the Romans very closely? The Americans! As a patriotic American I must point out that the American Empire is widely feared throughout the world and that we covertly and often openly endorse some very dispicable activity.
Yes indeed!
Do you see anybody jumping up and down to rock the boat? And this is in a much more open society than that experienced by the Japanese. How can we hold them accountable when we are not so ourselves. This is kind of holyier than thou. In the current post 911 climate a person could rapidly transit "the good life" into "deep and doubtfull shit" very rapidly for saying or writing the wrong thing. Having been reared within "The American Dream" the current environment seems to be relatively un American. What to do about it is the dilemma. Certainly nothing violent or illegal. At the same time ignoring it is wrong. We can critisize, publisize, picket, solicit the aid of our politicians and lawmakers, pray, go to jail...but, the possibility of effecting real change remains problematical. Occassionally, such as in the case of a Ghandi or King, this has been done. Note should be taken of the fact that they both paid with with their lives for their accomplishments.
The samurai were up against an even more dense form of this type of opposition.

The rise of the middle class and businessmen was the death knoll of the Samurai. They could not compete in this arena. Their concepts of honor and proper conduct did not suit them to the world of this type of competition.

At ant rate, I ramble. I am out of this at least for the time being for mental health reasons.

Happy New Year and God bless you all!

#56 p153817

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 02:03 PM

You make a lot of assumptions...

like wise

i just thought he was making god sence, untill that little part, i did read the the post, maybe you should reread it


... also why cant i throw isam in there

buddism and x-tian zoroastriaism, judaism and islam were all originated in the middle east

isam and judaism and x-tian are very similar, like have many of the sme orgins


were talk about bed rock and fred, why can't i trow barney in there?

#57 kukukajoob

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 02:56 PM

I would ask that anyone interested in Nichiren Buddhism or SGI in particular please Google the words "Nichiren" and "cult" before coming to your informed decision.

I'm not trying to diss Nichiren, SGI, or its various other sects, but there is a lot of negative stuff out there that one should be aware of, and it's not all written by Christian proselytizers trying to convert everyone to Christianity.

.


cult (kŭlt)
n.

A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.
A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.
[Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate.]

cultic cul'tic or cult'ish adj.
cultism cult'ism n.
cultist cult'ist n.

Dr. D, by inference you are calling the entire Nichiren sect of Buddhism, with its many diverse Temples and laity a cult. This is not only perjorative due to your choice of the "c" word but inaccurate and prejudicial as you instantaneously bring up the SGI, which is only one of many Nichiren Buddhist schools. Even SGI, though more insular than some of the other branches of Nichiren Buddhism is neither extremist nor false IMO. They are gung ho regarding propagation, but they reject all forms of violence and have helped many people gain enlightenment.

This string was started with an inquiry about Buddhism, and I agree with you that one should research in advance and make informed decisions prior to entering any religious practice.

Yet, in sharing one's individual positiveexperiences obtained through practice within this particular school of Buddhist thought, one can expect criticism and negativity to arise.

In that context, we should choose our words wisely when making oblique perjorative inferences, and also look at both sides of an issue before hurling invectives around.

"And don't criticize what you don't understand.........." Bob Dylan

#58 Doctor D

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 03:51 PM

Dr. D, by inference you are calling the entire Nichiren sect of Buddhism, with its many diverse Temples and laity a cult. This is not only perjorative due to your choice of the "c" word but inaccurate and prejudicial as you instantaneously bring up the SGI, which is only one of many Nichiren Buddhist schools. Even SGI, though more insular than some of the other branches of Nichiren Buddhism is neither extremist nor false IMO. They are gung ho regarding propagation, but they reject all forms of violence and have helped many people gain enlightenment.


I do not doubt that one can be enlightened through the methods described by Nichiren. Chanting anything over and over can lead to enlightenment in the proper context. I am positive there are many well-meaning, enlightened Nichiren Buddhists in the world. Nevertheless,

Nichiren sects have been characterized as intolerant of other Buddhist sects, including other Nichiren sects. This is one of several "cult-like" practices. Wikipedia states that Nichiren Buddhism "is also noted for positioning itself in opposition to other forms of Buddhism and an evangelical streak as evinced by some schools' practice of shakubuku, efforts to convert others by refuting their current beliefs and convincing them of the validity of Nichiren's teachings." If this is not the case with your particular sect, then very good.

SGI and Nichiren Shoshu were one and the same until their nasty schism 15 years ago. A lot of tit-for-tat nastiness has been exposed since.

I'm not trying to start an argument about the Nichiren sects, but Nichiren himself was a controversial figure within Buddhism and said many controversial things.

I did NOT call the Nichiren sects a cult, but there have been enough accusations of cult-like behaviour on behalf of several of the major Nichiren sects that I feel that anyone who wishes to know more about Buddhism in general should be aware of these accusations before getting involved with a Nichiren sect specifically.

I'm sorry if this offends you, but the fact remains that there is a lot of negative stuff written about several of the major Nichiren sects, and it's not all written by people with an obvious anti-Buddhist bias. Looking up the words "Nichiren" and "cult" will pick up a lot of them.

Also see

http://en.wikipedia....chiren_Buddhism

http://en.wikipedia...._of_Soka_Gakkai

#59 Doctor D

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 03:56 PM

Who was it who said that Buddhists don't have differences in denomination!

Christians like to denounce any religion that is not thier own and what they believe. Look at the differences in denominations and between those they fight. I just think most christians have it all wrong and buddhism is enlightenment.....



#60 viraljimmy

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 04:46 PM

in truth even central core tenets
like the trinity, the resurrection, the god-man, blood sacrifice as atonement
all are found in earlier religions,
the very basis of the 'catholic' [universal] church
is a synthesis of older more primitive religions
dressed up to appeal to a then-contemporary audience.


Yes!

Here's a question for christians...
If god really wanted everything perfect,
why didn't he just make Jesus the first man?




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